Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: .Cheese. on May 17, 2009, 06:36:52 PM
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I went to the Dayton Hamfest and bought a Yaesu FT-8900R. For those who know what it is - no explanation is needed then. For those who don't, it's a radio tranceiver that mounts in your car and runs off of your car battery - kind of like CB radio, except amateur radio requires an FCC license which gives licensees the privelege of using many radio bands (sets of frequencies) that the average person can't use.
Anyways, I've decided upon mounting the actual radio in the trunk of the car, and running cables to the front of the car to the remote control head with mic and speaker. The remote control head is not going to be permanently mounted to the front of my car. Instead, I'm going to use hole-less mount solutions.
Anyways, it's not the inside I'm worried about as much as the outside. I will need to mount a quad band antenna. I've decided on the Diamond brand CR8900A (an antenna designed specifically for this radio). It's 50" tall and chrome plated with several "traps" (they look like little tapered tubes on the antenna).
Here is a picture of the antenna:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfparts.com%2Fdiamond%2Fpicts%2FCR8900A.jpg&hash=b824a11c68dcf20bec560b35fff5ae0ae12e8098)
This is the radio:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.universal-radio.com%2Fcatalog%2Ffm_txvrs%2F0890lrg.jpg&hash=4bb7b5e0838c5388ce5228d527b787430448d3ed)
Bear in mind that the front part of that comes off and will be connected to the rest via cables that will be hidden in the car's chasis.
Here is the antenna mount that will be on my trunk:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walcottcb.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2FK400C%2FK400C.jpg&hash=f1e8adfe0e557a50965890c676cc6faa27ed7af5)
Ok.... so, the whole question is - how bad is this going to make my Infiniti G35 Sedan look? Is it going to look bubbafied? Or will people not really notice all that much? I'd rather they not notice to be honest, but be honest in your opinion.
I'm thinking women are going to see my car and just automatically assume I'm a weird guy.
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I'm thinking women are going to see my car and just automatically assume I'm a weird guy.
They'll appreciate being warned ahead of time. =D
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I'm thinking women are going to see my car and just automatically assume I'm a weird guy.
The trench coat and thin whispy mustache will do that more than the antenna. =D
yep, it will look a little off, but who cares? I would be more concerned with clearance... but on the g35 you should be fine. There is a car on the route that I drive for work that has 125+ antennas on it... no joke, no sarcasm... Now that's bubbafied. I'll take a pic next time I pass by it.
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I've seen worse mounted on cars.
It might look a bit cleaner if you drilled a hole and used a body mount instead of a trunk lip mount. I have a 2m/70cm Larsen antenna on a lip mount like that, but it's only 36" tall.
Chris/KI4POT
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The trench coat and thin whispy mustache will do that more than the antenna. =D
yep, it will look a little off, but who cares? I would be more concerned with clearance... but on the g35 you should be fine. There is a car on the route that I drive for work that has 125+ antennas on it... no joke, no sarcasm... Now that's bubbafied. I'll take a pic next time I pass by it.
If you see a vehicle with a bunch of anteni (more than one) and 4 of them are in a square pattern on the roof (short 12 ish inches) its most likely a lojack recover vehicle. It will usually be unmarked of course.
If you see a mini van or wagon style car with a crap load of small anteni, it may be a cellular provider tool. They drive around checking there signals and all of there competitors. The reason for the wagon is they have a top of hardware in the back.
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I'm thinking women are going to see my car and just automatically assume I'm a weird guy.
think of it as truth in advertising
you say weird like its a bad thing....
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If the antenna doesn't scrape the roof of the drive through when you go to the bank or the fast-food joint, then you are not serious about ham radio. You need to be able to knock down overhanging tree limbs in the city when you drive down residential streets.
Seriously, if you are more concerned with appearance than you are with effective performance, then why bother putting a rig in your car? The antenna will help you locate your vehicle when you forget which row you parked it in, if it is high enough to be getting the best performance possible. A trunk mount is better than no mount at all, but the best location is on the roof of your vehicle, and for a passenger auto that means either a gutter mount, or preferably a hole in the center of the roof. My antenna is mounted on top of a minivan, using a luggage rack mount. That gets the signal above the interference of the roof-line of the vehicle. Using a trunk mount you will have a directional pattern of radiation, instead of an omni-directional pattern.
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just automatically assume I'm a weird guy.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.s-fernald.com%2FA%2Fred_meat.jpg&hash=ed5e2824e6c700140fb5ca333c79d5eafddfb91a)
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I'm thinking women are going to see my car and just automatically assume I'm a weird guy.
Just women?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYVlLCL-mIg&feature=related
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Well, you'll never get laid again, but at least you'll be able to commiserate with people on the other side of the world. :lol:
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As long as your ride doesn't end up looking like this... you should be fine.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg526.imageshack.us%2Fimg526%2F107%2Fradio2.jpg&hash=8fe907c17a270d45a76d8affb91a26570d7dc747)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg507.imageshack.us%2Fimg507%2F2271%2Fradio3.jpg&hash=9a07bdad5c9c37b9a77ad8c42b251df932b57030)
Credit to Hamsexy.com, which you may go and visit for some hilarious images poking fun at the whackers and such. Probably NSFW.
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You need a white work van...
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I'm thinking women are going to see my car and just automatically assume I'm a weird guy.
As a ham, RF has already done permanent damage to the important bits. It won't matter if women assume you're weird.
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You just need a (well hidden) 600 Watt in-line amplifier. So you can overload and transmit whatever you want on the speakers of any hooptie-mobiles with a boom-car sound system.
Then I'd start using their car speakers to make entreaties for a rendezvous with the intent of same-sex activities.
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You just need a (well hidden) 600 Watt in-line amplifier. So you can overload and transmit whatever you want on the speakers of any hooptie-mobiles with a boom-car sound system.
Then I'd start using their car speakers to make entreaties for a rendezvous with the intent of same-sex activities.
What frequency is most useful for over powering the geto superstar shitboxes?
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As long as your ride doesn't end up looking like this... you should be fine.
All that guy needs is a bolt of lightning?
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A G35 would definitely be the best looking car I've ever heard of anyone sticking a big ham antenna on. Might as well just sell the car and get an old beater pickup with a camper top. Be sure to put plenty of conspiracy-themed bumper stickers on it. Then you won't have to explain anything. Or you could keep the G35 for picking up the ladies, and buy the radio truck for when you want to scare them off.
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There is a car on the route that I drive for work that has 125+ antennas on it... no joke, no sarcasm... Now that's bubbafied. I'll take a pic next time I pass by it.
You live out my way, right? I think I've seen that one, too.
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You live out my way, right? I think I've seen that one, too.
Every town has at least one poser like that...lots of antennas, lots of radios, usually an older car, maybe some "emergency lighting", lots of stickers...
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"What frequency is most useful for over powering the geto superstar shitboxes?"
Lessee.... best bet is the distance from the head unit to the amplifier since you'd best leak in on the signal path (~2-3v p-p at best)... a 2 meter rig is about perfect, but really anything AM that would have a harmonic in the 1-2M range will probably bleed in, especially if it's a cheap amp install.
I remember back when i had my Tbird I had just installed a CB radio, and had been listening for a couple days when I ran up on some fresh unexpected traffic blockage and decided I'd be a decent guy and broadcast. I turned the radio down, keyed up, and almost went off the road.
Turns out I'd never checked for RF leakage effects; since I was playing music, the radio and hence my two amplifiers were on, and my setup was "standard" and signal was only around a volt p-p. I got one word out and that blasted back to me at about 120db immediately followed by the loudest feedback I'd ever heard in my life.
Replacing the amp signal with something a bit less chintzy solved my issue :)
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Who cares what other people think?
I had a Yaesu FT-7800 (I think that was the model) installed in my Mazda6 using a roof mount in the factory radio antenna hole. I initially tried a tall 4-band antenna like the one you posted and I discovered that the sheetmetal the roof was made of was too weak to support it, the antenna would bend the metal when it whipped back and forth. I planned to install a shorter 2M/440 antenna but never got around to it and removed the rig when I tried to sell the car. I'd be careful of a similar problem with a trunk lip mount like you posted. I'm not sure they are really designed for a 4-foot antenna.
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I have the solution:
Toss all that trunk-lid vs roof vs whatever noise.
What you need is a tow hitch installed under your rear end, a removable square ball-mount for it, a mild brush guard / tow hook up front, and a mighty long & flexible antenna.
Hitch goes in back. LONG flex antenna goes in ball mount where ball would normally go. Brush guard up front. When tooling around town, antenna gets bent over the top of the vehicle and secured up front in a bow. Parked someplace for a while? Unsecure it from the front and get full use of your mongo 20'-ish antenna height.
Trailer hitch:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suspensionconnection.com%2Fimages%2Fitems%2Fcurt_hitch_large.jpg&hash=30d2d32214df9ca9df753bba3c11572f0cf8139f)
Stuff that uses front tow hook to mount stuff on:
http://blog.stillen.com/2008/11/nissan-gt-r-license-plate-bracket-released/
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/catalog-detail.php?ID=6487
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bulletproofautomotive.com%2Fitems%2Ftstitantoehookl.jpg&hash=8310fa837bfa8a7ce7f436291a1404e1dbdbff89)
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Not a good idea. RF reflected back into such a system would lead to high standing wave ratios....
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I decided to hell with it. I'm going to just go for it and not look back.
I realized today though that I need to also install an XM antenna too. :( More work.
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If the antenna doesn't scrape the roof of the drive through when you go to the bank or the fast-food joint, then you are not serious about ham radio. You need to be able to knock down overhanging tree limbs in the city when you drive down residential streets.
Well, if I really wasn't serious, I'd be installing the cheapest 2m mobile unit I could find used along with a 2m quarter wave teeny antenna.
Seriously, if you are more concerned with appearance than you are with effective performance, then why bother putting a rig in your car?
It's certainly not unreasonable to want to minimize detracting from the aesthetics of my vehicle, particularly since I love how my G35 looks and baby it.
At the same time though, I do like ham radio. I'm doing this mobile rig for 2 reasons:
1) I want a mobile rig.
2) My apt won't allow any radio gear (no antennas, etc.) So, all I can really have is an HT, which is fun, but 5 watts doesn't do that much. 50 watts on the other hand, can be fun, and the apt can't regulate what's on or in my car so long as it's legal.
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If you were really serious about a mobile rig you'd ditch the trunk lip mount, cut a hole in the roof, and mount that antenna dead center for maximum ground plane.
Re you apartment, I wonder whether PRB-1 can overrule antenna restrictions in a lease in the same way it knocks the wind out of the same restriction in HOA agreements. Some states have passed legislation that is almost identical or more forceful than the FCC's PRB-1, so check that angle to.
Oh, and a cheap 2M mobile rig with a cheap 1/4 wave whip can still be extremely useful. I ran a rig like that for a number of years. A Radio Shack HTX-212 was the best I could afford and the fact that I had to deal with a parking garage every meant tall antennas were out of the question. I picked up a cheap no-name 1/4 wave whip at a ham fest. It turned out to be one of my better antennas with a near perfect SWR rating all across the 2M band.
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I discovered that the sheetmetal the roof was made of was too weak to support it, the antenna would bend the metal when it whipped back and forth.
Use the cheapest 10" circular saw blade you can find behind the headliner and a fender washer on the outside. I put a 10m Hamstick on a station wagon roof this way, and it never had any trouble.
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You can run 50 to 75 watts inside your apartment with a portable antenna, a mobile rig and a power supply. I don't remember the brand and model of my antenna, so I will describe it. It is an automotive ground plane antenna of the type usually mounted through a hole in the roof. Instead of being mounted to sheet metal, it is mounted to a 90 degree angle bracket, and there are three equidistant radials pointing down at 45 degrees. The angle bracket is attached to a short piece of pipe with a u-bolt, and the pipe is attached to a small board (bookshelf) using a plumbing floor flange. The entire thing sits on a table and the tip of the antenna is just below the ceiling. You can place this portable antenna where it least interferes with your lifestyle, and put your rig and power supply where the operation is convenient. This antenna works much better than a J-pole type of antenna indoors, as it is less sensitive to SWR fluctuations due to nearby objects that detune the J-pole.
You can run as little power as needed to get into the area repeaters, or set your rig to full output for simplex contacts many miles away. Since there is no fixed connection to the building structure, there is no issue of damages and necessary repair. It can be broken down and moved easily by detaching the radials from the angle bracket, and the pipe from the floor bracket. You can store it (or disguise it when not in use) in a fishing rod case.
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If you were really serious about a mobile rig you'd ditch the trunk lip mount, cut a hole in the roof, and mount that antenna dead center for maximum ground plane.
Actually, the antenna for it does better NOT mounted dead center. It does better with asymmetrical mounting. Take a look for yourself at the instructions and specs for the Diamond CR8900A for yourself if you don't believe me. :|
Re you apartment, I wonder whether PRB-1 can overrule antenna restrictions in a lease in the same way it knocks the wind out of the same restriction in HOA agreements.
Don't know, don't want to find out by getting on the management's bad side. I should only be living there for 3 years anyways, so I'll deal with it.
You can run 50 to 75 watts inside your apartment with a portable antenna, a mobile rig and a power supply.
The rules at this complex are insane. No antennas that transmit. No antennas that receive without written approval. You can't even install a TV without written approval. How bizarre is that?
This isn't a small company either. They have multiple properties in at least 11 states. Just weird rules. They really have the Minneapolis market by the balls.
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How bizarre is that?
If you ask me, it sounds pretty .cheesy. =D
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Actually, the antenna for it does better NOT mounted dead center. It does better with asymmetrical mounting. Take a look for yourself at the instructions and specs for the Diamond CR8900A for yourself if you don't believe me. :|
I was being somewhat sarcastic. If you ever poke around some of the ham radio forums you'll see plenty of posts from new hams asking about trunk lip or magnet mounting for mobile antennas and sooner or later some grouchy old ham will jump in and berate them for not wanting to drill a hole in center of the roof. I didn't want you to feel left out so hence my pathetic half-hearted berating. :)
But back to your point, hey look at that. It does say that in the manual:
http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/pdfdocs/CR8900.pdf (http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/pdfdocs/CR8900.pdf)
That SWR curve for 6M is nothing to write home about though. The rest look fairly typical for a multiband antenna, at least in my limited experience. Looks like a nice antenna, all things considered.
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Ah. It's touch to know when somebody is being sarcastic online. Gotcha.
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Ah. It's touch to know when somebody is being sarcastic online. Gotcha.
I could have done a better job of conveying that too.
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FWIW, a trunk lip mount works quite nicely, at least for 2m and 440. I use one mounted to the lip of my Camry's trunk and a 5w HT and I have no problem getting to repeaters many miles away. Is it as optimum as an NMO mount on the roof? Probably not, but it works well enough for my needs.
HF is a different beast, but you're only dealing with VHF+UHF.
BTW, since you can't set up in your apartment, have you considered field operations? I bought my Yaesu FT-817 so I can do that. I have a "kit" that includes the radio, a few long wires, a tuner I built from a kit, and the radio's internal battery. It packs into a small camera bag and let's me get on the air from 80m to 440cm anywhere. Take your kit to a park and set up there for a couple hours.
Here's my station at Field Day last year: http://www.k4gvt.com/field_day_2008/image1.html
I've added a gel cell battery, solar panel, and charge controller for the event.
Chris
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Actually, the antenna for it does better NOT mounted dead center. It does better with asymmetrical mounting. Take a look for yourself at the instructions and specs for the Diamond CR8900A for yourself if you don't believe me. :|
Don't know, don't want to find out by getting on the management's bad side. I should only be living there for 3 years anyways, so I'll deal with it.
The rules at this complex are insane. No antennas that transmit. No antennas that receive without written approval. You can't even install a TV without written approval. How bizarre is that?
This isn't a small company either. They have multiple properties in at least 11 states. Just weird rules. They really have the Minneapolis market by the balls.
There has already been court rulings that determined that TV receiving antennas may not be prohibited by ownership or their management agents, regardless of any clause to that effect in the lease. Those provisions are unenforceable in your lease agreement. Unless you have agreed to allow inspections at a moments notice, or inspections when you are not present, then what chance is there that they would find a portable amateur band antenna that was in storage and determine that it was being used in violation of your lease? Does your lease prohibit you from even owning an antenna, or does it state that you may not use an antenna? How would the management determine that alleged interference was originating from inside your unit, instead of from the automobiles immediately adjacent to your unit?
Antenna performance may be beneficially enhanced by asymmetric mounting in mobile applications under some circumstances, but that is a matter of directivity versus omnidirectional patterns. Directivity offers gain enhancement in the favored direction, at the expense of gain reduction in other directions. Usually an omnidirectional pattern is the best approach for mobile situations. You could experiment with a magnet mount antenna in different locations, and determine if you can notice any appreciable difference in performance. In my experience, the only time you might notice any difference is when you are on the very edge of the antennas effective range into a repeater, and with an asymmetrical mounting location you may find that your contact distance is a mile farther depending on which direction you are traveling, when you are 30 miles or more from the repeater.
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There has already been court rulings that determined that TV receiving antennas may not be prohibited by ownership or their management agents, regardless of any clause to that effect in the lease.
They're not prohibited. I just have to get written approval.
Does the same apply to dishes?
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I suggest that you look into ARRL membership, and access their web site, at www.ARRL.ORG. (http://www.ARRL.ORG.) You should be able to find a lot of helpful info there.