Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MrsSmith on July 20, 2011, 03:48:00 PM
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The pull chain on the ceiling light in the laundry room snapped off inside the ceramic base. I know to flip the breaker before I try to fix it, but is this something I can easily fix or is it going to require me to undo wires and such?
Ok, so maybe there were a few things the husband was good for...
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You should be able to fix it.
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Yeah, the length of ball-chain usually just snaps and the short end flies up inside the ceramic bulb base and jams the switch. Opening it up and disconnecting the hot, neutral, and ground wire will let you pull the chain back out and the socket will work again.
And if the switch mechanism in there is actually busted, it's just a few bucks for a new one at Lowe's or Home Depot etc. And being a dumb light bulb fixture, it's not even going to be picky about being hooked up exactly right. The only one you really have to worry about is the ground wire, and where that goes is going to be obvious as compared to the hot and neutral.
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Um yeah, AJ.
How will I know the difference between hot, neutral and ground wires? Do they have little identifying tags on them?
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Um yeah, AJ.
How will I know the difference between hot, neutral and ground wires? Do they have little identifying tags on them?
Yes, assuming you've got modern Romex wire, which is the white plastic stuff with three wires in it, hot is black, neutral is white, and the ground is the bare copper wire connected to the green ground screw in the fixture.
since it's a simple two pole light bulb fixture, there's nothing connection sensitive and it doesn't even matter which one black and white go onto.
If you've got the older stuff called "BX" which is the metal snakey-spiral flexible metal stuff, inside that the black is hot, the white (or red) is neutral, and the outer metal flex conduit itself is the ground, and the bulb base just grounds right to the receptacle box by one of the screws that holds it on there.
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And as the risk manager, let me add:
Do not stand in puddles of water whilst working on the circuitry;
Substituting detcord for segments of wire is not recommended.
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And as the risk manager, let me add:
Do not stand in puddles of water whilst working on the circuitry;
Substituting detcord for segments of wire is not recommended.
Do not attempt to do this unless you have someone else hold your beer......
....and, do not attempt ANY action that cannot eventually be attributed as "fistful's fault".....
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Saying 'Hold my beer and watch this' almost always means something funny is going to happen.
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I would just replace the fixture since a new one would only be a few dollars.
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Um yeah, AJ.
How will I know the difference between hot, neutral and ground wires? Do they have little identifying tags on them?
Ground will smell like dirt. Neutral will have the Swiss flag. Hot will be hot to the touch. :D
Chris
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Ground will smell like dirt. Neutral will have the Swiss flag. Hot will be hot to the touch. :D
Chris
Little flag is sometimes hard to see.
Leave the breaker on, and touch each wire. You'll know which one is hot. 110VAC doesn't hurt much. >:D
In seriousness:
It might be easier to just swap in a new fixture though.
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My brother is an electrician. Couple of months ago he gripped a wire that he thought wasn't live. It was. As he said "fortunatly, I fell off the ladder, which got my hand off the wire" :laugh:.
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My brother is an electrician. Couple of months ago he gripped a wire that he thought wasn't live. It was. As he said "fortunatly, I fell off the ladder, which got my hand off the wire" :laugh:.
Apparently when trying to pull hot 277vac lines out of a disconnect so you can get an amp clamp on them to take a reading, it's a good idea to not use metal pliers...
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Apparently when trying to pull hot 277vac lines out of a disconnect so you can get an amp clamp on them to take a reading, it's a good idea to not use metal pliers...
:O :facepalm:
I've nearly been bit by 110 a couple of times. Both times the tool ended up shorting the hot to ground instead of me. But just barely.
I've learned that a non-contact voltage probe is my best friend. :)
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Did y'all miss the part where I said "easily" fix this? Easy meaning unscrew the thing enough to reach the chain, attach new chain, screw back down, let there be light.
Easy is NOT defined (in the world according to MrsSmith anyway) as allowing my delicate little fingers to come into contact with things that can hurt me. Such as live wires that need to be disconnected and reconnected.
Not only that, but the breaker box switches aren't labeled so I don't even know which one to turn off and I have far better things to do than run back and forth to the storage room off the back of the house where the breaker panel is and back into the house to see if the dryer stopped and I got the right switch while every clock in the house is flashing. Who would be so stupid as to not label the switches??? And why does every freakin' household appliance come with flashing clocks these days? Is there an easier way to figure out which switch it is that I'm just not aware of?
And I will NOT hand my beer to someone else MillCreek. Have you lost your mind? Want me to hold your beer?
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I've learned that all the wires in a ceiling light fixture are not necessarily all 120v :O
You find some interesting things in old houses.
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Did y'all miss the part where I said "easily" fix this? Easy meaning unscrew the thing enough to reach the chain, attach new chain, screw back down, let there be light.
Easy is NOT defined (in the world according to MrsSmith anyway) as allowing my delicate little fingers to come into contact with things that can hurt me. Such as live wires that need to be disconnected and reconnected.
Not only that, but the breaker box switches aren't labeled so I don't even know which one to turn off and I have far better things to do than run back and forth to the storage room off the back of the house where the breaker panel is and back into the house to see if the dryer stopped and I got the right switch while every clock in the house is flashing. Who would be so stupid as to not label the switches??? And why does every freakin' household appliance come with flashing clocks these days? Is there an easier way to figure out which switch it is that I'm just not aware of?
And I will NOT hand my beer to someone else MillCreek. Have you lost your mind? Want me to hold your beer?
It depends on what your definition of "easily" is =)
Any self-respecting guy could fix this for a beer or two.
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Yep, just do what AJ said. All you'll need is a flat-head screw driver and/or a phillips screwdriver to do the work. Easier to change it out then try to fix it. I've had a few here break in the basement here at Festung Scout and it always seems to break at the point the chain goes into the recoil mechanism.
Turn the light on and go turn off breakers until the light goes out. If your fixture has a outlet, buy a polarity tester (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3099774) and plug it into the outlet. It'll show 1) if the wires are hooked up correctly and 2) is a double check as to that the circuit is dead. (Indicator light will go out when the circuit is dead.)
Then just unscrew the old fixture, check to see how the wires were attached to the old fixture, remove the wires from the old fixture, attach the wires (if the polarity tester should that your existing wires are switched around, you can and probably should make them right, but if it's just a lone bulb and outlet, it's not that critical) and then reattach the fixture. Plug in the polarity tester and go turn the circuit breaker back on.
If it trips immediately of smoke comes from the fixture, then it's all Fistful's Fault.
When it comes to getting help, I've found our local Ace here has guys who know their stuff (mostly retired guys who worked in the trades), the Big Box stores generally just have stock boys who are lucky if they know what general area of the store an item might be in.
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Did y'all miss the part where I said "easily" fix this? Easy meaning unscrew the thing enough to reach the chain, attach new chain, screw back down, let there be light.
Easy is NOT defined (in the world according to MrsSmith anyway) as allowing my delicate little fingers to come into contact with things that can hurt me. Such as live wires that need to be disconnected and reconnected.
Not only that, but the breaker box switches aren't labeled so I don't even know which one to turn off and I have far better things to do than run back and forth to the storage room off the back of the house where the breaker panel is and back into the house to see if the dryer stopped and I got the right switch while every clock in the house is flashing. Who would be so stupid as to not label the switches??? And why does every freakin' household appliance come with flashing clocks these days? Is there an easier way to figure out which switch it is that I'm just not aware of?
The dryer's 220VAC and on a different circuit. when it stops, the light fixture is still hot.
Do you have a handy kind of friend that needs beer? Everyone should learn these little household things, but trial and error ain't the best way to do so.
Now for a bad day, I connected two hot legs of a 440VAC 3Phase circuit with my forearm one day. That HURT. 110 just makes you jump a little.
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Not only that, but the breaker box switches aren't labeled so I don't even know which one to turn off and I have far better things to do than run back and forth to the storage room off the back of the house where the breaker panel is and back into the house to see if the dryer stopped and I got the right switch while every clock in the house is flashing. Who would be so stupid as to not label the switches??? And why does every freakin' household appliance come with flashing clocks these days? Is there an easier way to figure out which switch it is that I'm just not aware of?
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Well, here's your chance to label said breaker box. =D (And learn how to reprogram your appliances =D =D)
And I will NOT hand my beer to someone else MillCreek. Have you lost your mind? Want me to hold your beer?
"Hold my beer and watch this" is generally said by someone about to do something that will 1) end up with that person in extreme pain and 2) produce fits of laughter in everyone else standing around and those watching on YouTube. (just type in "hold my beer and watch this" for numerous examples).
[popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
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Also, If you're going to venture into the world of Home electrical repair. (and you should, it's good stuff to know)
Your VERY FIRST PURCHASE should be a Non-contact Voltage Detector (http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Tools-Accessories-Electrical-Test-Meters/h_d1/N-5yc1vZboff/R-202867895/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053) It's cheap, and you wont get all these cool "when I electrocuted myself" stories.
Then, if funding allows, it sounds like a Circuit Breaker Finder (http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Tools-Accessories-Electrical-Test-Meters/h_d1/N-5yc1vZboff/R-100341174/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053) might be handy. It seems like labeling the breakers is a no-brainer, but no one seems to actually do it. I'f had a breaker finder for years, and used it at least once in every house I've worked in.
As far as the light fixture, Yeah, AJ was right. Just replace the fixture. Once the circuit's cold, we're only talking about 5 screws and three wires. And if the ground correct, the other two don't really matter. If all else fails drop the fixture and take a picture showing the wires and we can tell you where they go on the new fixture.
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Easy meaning unscrew the thing enough to reach the chain, attach new chain, screw back down, let there be light.
heh, you're funny... =)
Call you an electrician.
I connected two hot legs of a 440VAC 3Phase circuit with my forearm one day. That HURT
ME TOO!! I think that makes us 440V / 60 cycle buzz brothers or something! I was more fortunate though in that I was covered in sweat at the time so I watched as the pretty blue lightning bolt sizzled across my arm. It did NOT hurt! Made me think though! :O
=D
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Turn the light on and go turn off breakers until the light goes out.
Did you miss the part where she said the pull chain broke ???
Well, I guess there's a 50/50 chance it broke it the ON position, but I doubt it. =|
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MrsSmith, generally disconnecting the wires isn't too much of a problem if they are connected by wire nuts...it's really simple, then, to completely disconnect and remove the fixture, and you can either replace the fixture entirely in a few minutes or take your time and repair the pullchain...I do such work with the wires live, because it's still fairly safe to do so long as you take basic precautions and are careful.
Now, for an older house, all bets are completely off as to the ease of working on electrical fixtures.
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Did you miss the part where she said the pull chain broke ???
Well, I guess there's a 50/50 chance it broke it the ON position, but I doubt it. =|
That makes it easier....just keep flipping breakers until nothing happens....THAT will be the one to the light.....I hope.... =|
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Nice knowing you, Mrs. Smith.
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Mrs. Smith, how old is your house? I ask because if it's old, with crumbling insulation on the wires, you might inadvertently cause problems worse than a broken chain.
If it's a newer home with nice flexible insulation on the wires, then I'd feel better about you getting inside that fixture.
It's really simple if that's the case. Just make sure that you put the hot wire of the outlet to the hot wire coming out of the junction box, the neutral to the neutral, and the ground to wherever the ground wire is running now in the box. Wrap electricians tape around the wire nuts, and make sure there's no bare wire showing anywhere, or that the wire nuts are too loose and came come off when you put everything back together.
If nothing else, borrow a neighbor who knows how to do this, and buy him/her mass quantities of his/her favorite beverage. You don't need to pay an electrician a couple of hundred dollars.
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You know, I bet if you visit ThisOldHouse.com or Popular Mechanics they either have a vid covering basic fixture work or an article with accompanying photos...
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Dogmush wins the best suggestion award:
Do you have a handy kind of friend that needs beer?
Now THAT is my idea of easy! Besides, I haven't played the girl card in a while. Well, except for the cable guy that was here the other day. I had him move a tv from one room to another and kill a spider, but that's what he gets for flirting with me when I'm old enough to be his mother. (When did they start letting ten y.o. boys make repair calls?) I'd rather play the girl card than risk having to report back to you guys that I burned down the house or electrocuted myself. Though I haven't yet had the opportunity to blame Fistful for anything and after that remark he made I find myself eager to, so it might be worth trying it myself just for that reason. Then again, I'm sure other opportunities will arise that don't require such effort on my part.
I'm sure I can round up a handy friend and I'll watch everything he does so I'll learn. And I'll pick up the tools you mentioned Dogmush. I used to have a fairly good collection of tools before I got married, but they somehow disappeared in the divorce. All he left me with was a rusty hammer, a rusty multi-bit screwdriver, and the body of my cordless drill (case, bits and battery missing). What kind of man takes a woman's tools and leaves her rusted junk?
Scout - I DO know how to program my appliances! I'm female, I can read directions.
Avenger - lives wires are fairly safe? Uh huh.
To answer Avenger and Monkeyleg, the house was built in the 70s. Have no idea what the wire insulation looks like.
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the house was built in the 70s. Have no idea what the wire insulation looks like.
Mixed bag. Could be a well done setup that's easy to work on or could be a nightmare (especially if a Tim the Toolman type got ahold of it and tried a home improvement project). You're definitely going the right path in this case of getting a mentor for this project.
lives wires are fairly safe? Uh huh.
Yes, in the case of replacing a fixture such as this live isn't much of a problem for swapping fixtures or disconnecting and reconnecting later. Anything more involved and you'd definitely want to cut that circuit off. I work on electrical at work. Some stuff I cut off, some stuff I work on live, all depending on the circumstances.
ll he left me with was a rusty hammer, a rusty multi-bit screwdriver, and the body of my cordless drill (case, bits and battery missing). What kind of man takes a woman's tools and leaves her rusted junk?
A bastard. Hit up the pawn shops and look for craftsman and snap-on tools to stock up on basic hand tools...a visit to harbor freight nets you nice, cheap digital multimeters and consumables such as electrical tape, wire nuts, and so on...
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My brother is an electrician. Couple of months ago he gripped a wire that he thought wasn't live. It was. As he said "fortunatly, I fell off the ladder, which got my hand off the wire" :laugh:.
Once, twenty five some-odd years ago, I cut through a wire I thought was dead, that wasn't. 120V Romex house wire, prob. 15 A circuit. It burned the tip off the sidecutters. I keep the sidecutters around, as a reminder.
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Once, twenty five some-odd years ago, I cut through a wire I thought was dead, that wasn't. 120V Romex house wire, prob. 15 A circuit. It burned the tip off the sidecutters. I keep the sidecutters around, as a reminder.
When working with "dead" circuits, I always keep in mind "Hey, some dumbass might have flipped the breaker, or cut the lockout lock/tag off..."
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In regards to "Hold my beer and watch this" there are 8,300 youtube videos associated with that phrase. Have fun: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hold+my+beer+and+watch+this&aq=4&oq=hold+my+beer+ (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hold+my+beer+and+watch+this&aq=4&oq=hold+my+beer+)
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What you want done is easy the second time you try it. First time via correspondence . . . . not so much. A male of the species will respond favorably to a damsel in distress; particularly one sporting a supply of malt beverages.
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As to messing with live wires, back in high school, and the early years of college when I was living at home still, I was always futzing with the phone lines for my modem. I was in a hurry and too lazy to go downstairs to the basement workbench for a wire stripper, and figured phone wire was low voltage and would be fine if I only had one wire at a time in my teeth.
Well, a wire slipped back in, and dial tone/on hook is about 48V with a really interesting sensation from the dual sine-waves that make the tone, and if you've got really bad luck, the ring is 90V or more... Took a week for those teeth that got hit to feel right again. =|
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Attach beer to fishing pole.
Scout out reputable electrician.
Wait until he's finished for the day.
Dangle beer in his path.
Lead to light fixture.
Let him know the rest of thle case will appear when the light turns on.
Eay peasy....
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As to messing with live wires, back in high school, and the early years of college when I was living at home still, I was always futzing with the phone lines for my modem. I was in a hurry and too lazy to go downstairs to the basement workbench for a wire stripper, and figured phone wire was low voltage and would be fine if I only had one wire at a time in my teeth.
Well, a wire slipped back in, and dial tone/on hook is about 48V with a really interesting sensation from the dual sine-waves that make the tone, and if you've got really bad luck, the ring is 90V or more... Took a week for those teeth that got hit to feel right again. =|
We used to make newb's in the Army do the TA-312 dance, back when I was enlisted Combat Signaler..
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How come no one hit on the easy solution for wiring a 120 volt device of virtually any kind?
I have never seen one that did not have a silver and a brass colored set of screws plus a green one if there is to be a ground wire connected. The white wire connects to the silver screw and the black wire connects to the brass screw. Light wire to light screw and dark wire to dark screw. The bare or green wire connects to the green screw. [This, of course assumes that the house itself is not wired backwards!]
Buy a simple cheap voltmeter for insurance in avoiding a ZAP function. To verify the fixture is not powered, touch the black lead of the voltmeter (range set to greater than 120 volt max) to ground or the silver screw and the red lead to the brass screw. If there is ANY motion of the voltmeter needle, the fixture is HOT! Go find the breaker and turn it off before proceeding.
For the adventurous and lazy type, you can rewire the fixture with the line hot but the chances are very good that you will get careless and have a shocking experience. If you go this route anyway, wear rubber gloves - latex will do if you don't tear them - to reduce (note I didn't say eliminate) this chance.
After all that has been said, remove or at least back off the mounting screws to see if it is possible to get the chain back out and attach an extension chain. If so, all the replacing and rewiring of the fixture can be avoided.
Warhorse
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And if the ground correct, the other two don't really matter.
Uh, not exactly. Come on AJ and dogmush. You need to give safe advice, or not give it at all.
You want the hot to connect to the center contact down inside the socket, the neutral to the outside shell of the socket. It's a little thing called "safety". You do not want the shell of the socket to be hot. There's too much of a chance of coming in contact with it while changing a burned out bulb, should you forget to trip the breaker first. (The shell of the socket is the threaded part the bulb screws into.)
MrsSmith, connect the black (hot) wire to the brass colored screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver colored screw, and the ground wire (green insulated or completely bare) to the green tinted screw (assuming it is a screw-connected socket). If it has wires coming out of it, just match the wire colors and wire nut them together per what Monkeyleg said. That will put the hot side on the small center contact in the socket, and the neutral on the socket shell. In a properly wired home, the neutral leg is tied to ground in the circuit breaker box and has no voltage on it.
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This one wins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOI2PTJZxPA
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We used to make newb's in the Army do the TA-312 dance, back when I was enlisted Combat Signaler..
In their mouth? =D
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In their mouth? =D
Nope, hold one wire in each hand. Most people couldn't/wouldn't let go until the crank stopped turning......
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Um yeah, AJ.
How will I know the difference between hot, neutral and ground wires? Do they have little identifying tags on them?
Black is "hot." White is neutral. Green is ground.
The screws should be color coded: "Black to brass, white to bright (silver), clean to green."
You will probably have to buy a replacement socket with pull chain. Couple of bux at Lowe's or Home Despot.
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Though I haven't yet had the opportunity to blame Fistful for anything and after that remark he made I find myself eager to, so it might be worth frying myself just for that reason. Then again, I'm sure other opportunities will arise that don't require such effort on my part.
I'm sure I misunderstood you ...
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Nope, hold one wire in each hand. Most people couldn't/wouldn't let go until the crank stopped turning......
Oh, the fun we had with newbies in the comm shop. =D
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Oh, the fun we had with newbies in the comm shop. =D
Yep, welcome to "Electrifying Newbie's" 101.....
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Uh, not exactly. Come on AJ and dogmush. You need to give safe advice, or not give it at all.
You want the hot to connect to the center contact down inside the socket, the neutral to the outside shell of the socket. It's a little thing called "safety". You do not want the shell of the socket to be hot. There's too much of a chance of coming in contact with it while changing a burned out bulb, should you forget to trip the breaker first. (The shell of the socket is the threaded part the bulb screws into.)
MrsSmith, connect the black (hot) wire to the brass colored screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver colored screw, and the ground wire (green insulated or completely bare) to the green tinted screw (assuming it is a screw-connected socket). If it has wires coming out of it, just match the wire colors and wire nut them together per what Monkeyleg said. That will put the hot side on the small center contact in the socket, and the neutral on the socket shell. In a properly wired home, the neutral leg is tied to ground in the circuit breaker box and has no voltage on it.
And plus, for whoever works on it in the future, you don't want your work to cause them to go "WTF? Now who's the idiot that did this..."
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http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_to_wire_a_light_socket
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2fp5lp4OFk (Yeah, it shows a fawncy fixture, but the electricity doesn't know the difference)
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Black is "hot." White is neutral. Green is ground.
That assumes that some home handyman didn't replace some wiring somewhere along the line and color-code the wires opposite of what they should be. The voltmeter is your friend. ;)
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That assumes that some home handyman didn't replace some wiring somewhere along the line and color-code the wires opposite of what they should be. The voltmeter is your friend. ;)
Yep, before I rewired, I had light blue, red and orange wires, only occasionally a black and/or white. And according to the polarity tester , the house should have burned down the first time someone threw a switch....
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Do not attempt to do this unless you have someone else hold your beer......
....and, do not attempt ANY action that cannot eventually be attributed as "fistful's fault".....
Well, who do you think is responsible for the broken chain in the first place?
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Mrs. Smith,
I really, really hope you don't try this yourself. Please find somebody who seems credible, and who feels comfortable doing this himself (or herself), who will be physically present to give you instructions, or do a little show-and-tell.
That way, you will survive to (carefully) fix/replace the next light fixture that breaks. It's not the sort of thing that's terribly complicated or difficult to learn, but it can be dangerous, and you need a little basic instruction.
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^ Huzzah! "Good sense" is now The artist formerly known as fistful's fault.
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I used to teach basicv electricity and we had these boards with different components for wiring together in different configurations. Well, I used to get to bug the boards for troubleshooting practice. They would give me their completed, working board and I would make it not work and give it back to them to figure out. The VERY FIRST THING you were supposed to do was ohm it out across the hot/nuetral/ground of the three pronge plug to make sure there were no shorts. What I liked to do, usually to the guy that gives me the most crap, is take a single strand of multi-stranded wire and run it across the H/N lugs using those little holes they have in the ends. So when the victim plugs it in there is a large but harmless arc that dims the lights and makes the guy crap himself. Now if you really didn't like him you might increase that to 2 or 3 starnds instead of one. Increasing both the spark and hilarity exponentially. Never got past 3 strands because 3 REALLY dimmed the lights and I was already famous for such activities and things like explosions so I kept this one on the down low. :angel:
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That assumes that some home handyman didn't replace some wiring somewhere along the line and color-code the wires opposite of what they should be. The voltmeter is your friend. ;)
Very true. I had a house in Colorado Springs that had been wired by a dunce. Fixed whatever I found, but I don't know if I found it all.
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280plus, you are a cruel, cruel person. No wonder you fit in well here.
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Yup,,,
But I got the effer that made me miserable for three months and I got him reaaal gooood... Bwahahahahahahhaaaaa.... >:D
:lol:
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He cleared the floor by at least a foot. :cool:
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*hehehehe* that's awesome 280!!!
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I'm convinced! While I'm sure I'm quite capable of learning to do this the right way (I learned to tune up my vehicle, but there was little risk of bodily injury), I'd rather have someone who knows what they're doing actually show me. Y'all did a great job of explaining things and I thank you, but I'll use the "beer as lure" method of repair this time.
Scary thing is, I think I actually learned a thing or two from this thread... Next time Fistful breaks something I don't know how to fix, I'll just throw it out for you guys. The entertainment value is priceless.
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Yep, before I rewired, I had light blue, red and orange wires, only occasionally a black and/or white. And according to the polarity tester , the house should have burned down the first time someone threw a switch....
That's why, after thinking about it and reading the comments from Mrs Smith, I think she should have someone with a bit more knowledge replace the fixture.
It seems simple, but mistakes can be costly. A neighbor of ours had some wiring in the unheated second floor of the house, and the heat/thaw cycles caused the wires to move. Two of them moved to the point where they touched, and a fire ensued that took out a good portion of the upper part of the house. I realize we're talking about mistakes that should be immediately apparent, but there are some mistakes (wires not properly fastened) that can manifest themselves later.
As for shocking stories (pun intended), my father repaired TV's and radios in the 1950's as a side job for a time. He was working on one and accidentally touched the capacitor. He was on the other side of the room in .2 seconds.
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I'm convinced! While I'm sure I'm quite capable of learning to do this the right way (I learned to tune up my vehicle, but there was little risk of bodily injury), I'd rather have someone who knows what they're doing actually show me. Y'all did a great job of explaining things and I thank you, but I'll use the "beer as lure" method of repair this time.
Scary thing is, I think I actually learned a thing or two from this thread... Next time Fistful breaks something I don't know how to fix, I'll just throw it out for you guys. The entertainment value is priceless.
What is all this talk of beer bribes in all the posts here? Whiskey - it separates the amateurs from the professionals.
MrsSmith, if you do end up getting someone to help you, take the opportunity to label your breaker box. Pain in the butt now, but pays off big in the future.
I'm fairly handy with most stuff around the house, but have always been jittery when doing anything with electricity. It takes me like four times as long to do a minor electrical repair compared to anything else, because 75% of my time is spent making sure I won't electrocute myself. :)
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Ben I'm much the same way. I don't like the big blue sparks and smoke, etc.....
Dick, I did some work on a TV my in-laws gave me (known problem, easy fix) and let me tell you, I kept eyeing the big caps near the power supply VERY suspiciously. I just knew they wanted to reach up and bite me.... Oh, and I also made sure to ground the tube itself. Because that's nothing more than one ginormous capacitor.....
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When I first moved into my farmhouse, the barn and storage shed were wired with single wires on porcelain standoffs --double cotton-covered (they used to call it "DCC" wire) solid wires.
The switches were also those old porcelain rotary switches you sometimes see in old, old movies from the 20s. The outbildings weren't connected to the mains any more, so I brought power out to the barn and wired up the milk room to use as a machine shop.
I really wish I'd removed and kept some of those old switches and standoffs and some wire when we moved out. They'd probably be worth something to a collector nowadays.
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Uh, not exactly. Come on AJ and dogmush. You need to give safe advice, or not give it at all.
You want the hot to connect to the center contact down inside the socket, the neutral to the outside shell of the socket. It's a little thing called "safety". You do not want the shell of the socket to be hot. There's too much of a chance of coming in contact with it while changing a burned out bulb, should you forget to trip the breaker first. (The shell of the socket is the threaded part the bulb screws into.)
MrsSmith, connect the black (hot) wire to the brass colored screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver colored screw, and the ground wire (green insulated or completely bare) to the green tinted screw (assuming it is a screw-connected socket). If it has wires coming out of it, just match the wire colors and wire nut them together per what Monkeyleg said. That will put the hot side on the small center contact in the socket, and the neutral on the socket shell. In a properly wired home, the neutral leg is tied to ground in the circuit breaker box and has no voltage on it.
It is never a good idea to assume the colors are done correctly. I've seen hot whites, neutral reds, and some where all legs are white lamp cord :O
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It is never a good idea to assume the colors are done correctly. I've seen hot whites, neutral reds, and some where all legs are white lamp cord
Our last house had what the electrician called a "back feed". The black wire was hot, but I got zapped by the neutral as well. I measured it, and it was delivering 120 volts.
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Our last house had what the electrician called a "back feed". The black wire was hot, but I got zapped by the neutral as well. I measured it, and it was delivering 120 volts.
Put the black and white together, and you would either get 240v, or nothing if both are on the same phase.
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It is never a good idea to assume the colors are done correctly. I've seen hot whites, neutral reds, and some where all legs are white lamp cord :O
Now you are beginning to sound like an Interior Decorator.
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Put the black and white together, and you would either get 240v, or nothing if both are on the same phase.
That would always make me LOL at Star Trek. People, machines, warp drives, transporter malfunctions would "get out of phase" and then get stuck in some sort of interdimentional space they had to be rescued from.
I was always sitting there thinking, "Well, then that should just mean they can/can't run the dryer, the AC, or the electric stove is all..." =)
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What is all this talk of beer bribes in all the posts here? Whiskey - it separates the amateurs from the professionals.
MrsSmith, if you do end up getting someone to help you, take the opportunity to label your breaker box. Pain in the butt now, but pays off big in the future.
I'm fairly handy with most stuff around the house, but have always been jittery when doing anything with electricity. It takes me like four times as long to do a minor electrical repair compared to anything else, because 75% of my time is spent making sure I won't electrocute myself. :)
Regarding whiskey - agreed.
Regarding breaker box - will do, grudgingly, unless I can convince handy friend to do it for me ;)
Regarding jittery around electricity - likewise.
Don't worry Monkeyleg, I won't get a wild hair and try to tackle it myself after a few cocktails. That would probably go the same way that taking apart my camera to see how it worked after a few cocktails went. I now have a firm rule that if it requires tools or involves anything that costs more than $100, I don't touch it after a couple drinks. But that might be a funny thread. Stupidest/funniest thing you've attempted after the consumption of adult beverages. I, of course, couldn't post because I'm an angel.
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"taking apart my camera to see how it worked"
That reminded me of a scene in The Simpsons where Homer is down in the basement fixing a camera. Big screwdriver in one hand poised atop the camera, big hammer in the other hand poised atop the screwdriver. Homer's ready to hit the driver, makes a couple of preparatory strokes with the hammer while saying to himself, "Easy, Homer... Eaaasy."
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I remember that. It was an electric drill motor and screwdriver/drill bit chucked up iirc.Funny stuff. :)
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It is never a good idea to assume the colors are done correctly. I've seen hot whites, neutral reds, and some where all legs are white lamp cord :O
Very true, that. I've run into it a few times myself.
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He cleared the floor by at least a foot. :cool:
One of the jobs I had after I got out of the Navy was working at a place did did repair on (now) old 3270 terminals and monitors. the monitor was disassembled and set into a test fixture and then powered up for testing.
On rare occasions a really bad one would have a nasty arcing fit in the high voltage section making lots of nasty noises.
A fun thing to do was to sneak up behind someone with a roll of bubble wrap and give it a big twist as they hit the power switch.
Peeled a few off the 20' ceiling.
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We used to walk up behind guys working on electrical and go "ZZZZZT!!" really loud. Most would jump, some would get pissed off. :laugh:
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When I worked in the cabinet shop I was the go-to guy for anything electrical. This one lady who was making minimum doing busywork all day kept making a lot of noise about how she was experienced at electrical work and had "wired 3 prisons down south" as an "apprentice electrician". No one really believed her except the VP of the company got her ear bent by Barb one day. She comes to me and the shop foreman with "Did you know that Barb is an electrician? She should be wiring these cabinets. We can't afford any mistakes." to which the foreman responded something like "Well, if it's electrical and I want it done right the first time, I ask [me] to do it." Her response was colorful and included the term "misogynistic" and neeedless to say, she got her way.
So Barb sets about wiring her first cabinet. It had a plexiglas window in the front, around which was to be mounted 6 24" 2-tube fluorescent fixtures on the inside of the cabinet so that when you looked in the window, the interior was illuminated but you couldn't see the lights. There was to be a switch on the back side of the cabinet to turn the lights on and off. I stayed away all day until the foreman called me over for the unveiling about 6 hours later. "You're going to like this," he said "I've been watching her."
So Barb goes and plugs in the power cord to a receptacle and the cabinet illuminates with a beautiful light. The few people who were watching murmured their approval, and the VP who had come out to the shop floor gave a little thumbs up. Then Barb throws the switch and the lights turn off. The foreman (who had a degree in electrical engineering) starts chuckling and says "Hey Barb, turn that back on a second." It was about this time that I notice one of the guys was looking with puzzlement at a nearby table saw as he flipped the switch back and forth, a half-ripped board in his other hand. Barb throws the switch again to no effect as the guy at the saw calls out "Did we lose power or trip a breaker or something?"
To make along story longer, Barb had zero experience with anything electrical. She had worked for an electrician on the "prisons down south", but her duties were limited to screwing down conduit and assisting in wire pulls. The foreman instructed me to open the cabinet and correct whatever she had done, which was:
Each of the six lights had a a wire whip coming from the ballast box of 12/3 appliance cable (like for make-your-own extension cords and stuff) which she got of a spool in the electrical department. The lights were not daisy-chained together even though they formed a shape like a oval. There was just a cable going from each light. All the cables stretched back to a single junction box in the corner of the cabinet. Also entering this junction box was a cable coming from the switch box and the power cable. Inside the light boxes, she had connected the green wire from the cable to the grounding screw, and connected the white from the cable to the white from the ballast, and the black from the cable to the black from the ballast. Not too shabby, aside from the god-awful cable routing. Inside the switch box she had connected the green wire to the grounding screw on the switch, and connected the black wire to one side and the white wire to the other side of the switch. Ok, this could work, depending on how things were in that main junction box. . . .
Inside the junction box were 6 cables coming from lights, one power cable and one cable from the switch box.
All the green wires were cut off flush with the sheath. :facepalm:
All the white wires were nutted together with a giant wire nut [barf]
All the black wires were nutted together with a giant wire nut [ar15]
So basically, the only reason it lit up at all was because the switch was off when she plugged it in. As soon as she flipped the switch (to "ON"), she closed a dead short between the neutral and hot, tripping the breaker.
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Very true, that. I've run into it a few times myself.
And sometimes the bare wire isn't ground, it's a hot that's lost its insulation. :O That one was in a commercial building too. Scary.
We used to walk up behind guys working on electrical and go "ZZZZZT!!" really loud. Most would jump, some would get pissed off. :laugh:
Or scuff your feet on the carpet then touch them. Brother did that to my dad once. Dad said, and I quote, "I thought I was dead." Hilarious. :lol:
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^^^ :lol:
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I luvs me a 220v ground short plasma ball, they sear your retinas really, really good
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Whoa....
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Yea that is definitely one of those "check you shorts for the brown monorail track" incidents.
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Yea, I believe in that sequence if you watch very carefully you can spot the exact moment he craps his pants. :lol:
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So what exactly is happening there? I see three phases getting disconnected while hot. Does one of the arcs between the disconnecting arms ground out to a pole or something?
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Isolator arc on a 500Kv line in Boulder City, NV. (And interestingly not far off from what happened after Dad tried to wire up his new air compressor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQQMK1Rvq0A
Brad
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!! :laugh:
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I love electricity. =D
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Ooooooooo! Aaaaaaaaah!
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Go to your local big box home store.
Go to the do it yourself section and buy one of the probably many different kinds of "The Beginner's Book of How Not to Turn Yourself Into a Corpse Doing Home Electrical Repairs" books.
I have one from Sunset. They were a standard in the industry for many years.
Basically...
Complete and Total Dumbass Newbie = Sunset is the right book.
These days it might be the "Idiot's Guide for How Not to Turn Yourself Into a Corpse Doing Home Electrical Repairs."
These books will show you, in clear diagrams, the BASIC wiring set up that you'll find when try to work on most outlets, light switches, or light fixtures.
They'll tell you how to do it safely (relatively, they can't mitigate moron syndrome) and what basic tools you'll need.
I spent this morning installing a new timer in the master bath in my house that will run the ceiling fan and light.
In order to install it AND get the lights to work above the sink (people who built my house did some weird assed gang wiring) I had to separate the gang wiring, install some new wiring, and put everything back together.
8 hours later and my house isn't burning down.
If I hadn't learned a LOT from my Sunset book, which I got when I bought my house, I'd have never even tried to tackle that job. I'd have just returned the timer to the store.
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Ixnay on the pull-chain fixture. Get a cheap motion-sensor fixture and never pull the chain again.
I've learned that a non-contact voltage probe is my best friend. :)
This is wise. As opposed to all the wiseacreage I have read in this thread.
Who would be so stupid as to not label the switches??? And why does every freakin' household appliance come with flashing clocks these days?
Stupid electricians.
To taunt us.
ME TOO!! I think that makes us 440V / 60 cycle buzz brothers or something! I was more fortunate though in that I was covered in sweat at the time so I watched as the pretty blue lightning bolt sizzled across my arm. It did NOT hurt! Made me think though! :O
Woulda made me seek out a clean pair of drawers.
I used to have a fairly good collection of tools before I got married, but they somehow disappeared in the divorce. All he left me with was a rusty hammer, a rusty multi-bit screwdriver, and the body of my cordless drill (case, bits and battery missing). What kind of man takes a woman's tools and leaves her rusted junk?
That has the makings of a real raw country song. I think David Allen Coe could make it work.
It takes me like four times as long to do a minor electrical repair compared to anything else, because 75% of my time is spent making sure I won't electrocute myself. :)
Same here.
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Mike Irwin makes a good point. The Home Depot wiring or general purpose home repair books are handy, too. Taught myself to sweat pipe with one, when the high-dollar plumber got amorous with the pooch in my new guest bath and I then trusted NO ONE to get it right.
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when the high-dollar plumber got amorous with the pooch in my new guest bath and I then trusted NO ONE to get it right.
There's a story in there. Yet I dare not ask.
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That is the classiest way of saying 'screwed the pooch' I have ever seen. Must file away for future use.
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Well there went the story.
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Well there went the story.
I could make something up that sounded freakishly plausible.
It is not for nothing I was once called "The Cliff Claven of <my_church>."
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I then trusted NO ONE to get it right.
If there is one thing I've learned in this world, it's if you want something done right...gotta do it yourself...
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Not only that, but the breaker box switches aren't labeled so I don't even know which one to turn off and I have far better things to do than run back and forth to the storage room off the back of the house where the breaker panel is and back into the house to see if the dryer stopped and I got the right switch while every clock in the house is flashing. Who would be so stupid as to not label the switches?
Unlabeled breaker panels are not uncommon, and sometimes the labels are on a card or paper inserted in a plastic pocket. Sometimes, those go missing.
You see, the guys who make their dough wiring buildings are not really worried about whether you can find the right breaker later on. And I wonder how many people really want to pay a contractor to do it, when any pair of literate monkeys can do it themselves.
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Little brother was a Navy FC, he had similar electronics training to mine.
One day he was having problems with his clothes dryer and couldn't figure out the problem. He decide the 220 wasn't getting to the unit and wanted to verify that theory he borrowed my Fluke 77 but couldn't figure out how to make it work.
So, he licked his fingers and swiped them across the contacts.
I'd still like to see a DNA test to prove we are related.
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Yup, I've seen guys do that. I am not one of them. lol...
I used to have a fairly good collection of tools before I got married, but they somehow disappeared in the divorce. All he left me with was a rusty hammer, a rusty multi-bit screwdriver, and the body of my cordless drill (case, bits and battery missing). What kind of man takes a woman's tools and leaves her rusted junk?
Don't feel bad, all mine left me was a plate, knife, fork, spoon, cup, a pot, the couch and my stereo. (thank GOD cause there woulda been some real issues if she took that. lol...)
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Don't feel bad, all mine left me was a plate, knife, fork, spoon, cup, a pot, the couch and my stereo. (thank GOD cause there woulda been some real issues if she took that. lol...)
Ouch! I got a bit of revenge though. I kept the sailing trophy we won together, the new cookware, and everything in the liquor cabinet.
I could make something up that sounded freakishly plausible.
Please do.
Go to the do it yourself section and buy one of the probably many different kinds of "The Beginner's Book of How Not to Turn Yourself Into a Corpse Doing Home Electrical Repairs" books.
Good idea. However, considering all the things I've read in this post that could be different from the norm or done wrong originally, etc., I'll just let handy friend do it and watch him.
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Kept the liquor, I like that. :laugh:
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"So, he licked his fingers and swiped them across the contacts. I'd still like to see a DNA test to prove we are related."
Dang, I was going to mention my Pop doing that but I thought the thread was getting too anecdotaled. He didn't wet his fingers though.
He wired up the summer house we had on Long Island and I helpered ("Gimme that screwdriver") and watched him do it all the time. Then came time to wire up the 220 well pump and he did it. That was only the 23,746th time I ever heard him curse with really offensive dirty words.
I'm fairly sure we're actually related because I have in hand Mom and Pop's original marriage certificate from early 1938 and my birth certificate more than nine months after that.
I always wanted to mount the two documents in the same frame, along with the legend, "Solid PROOF that despite all the name-calling, I am NOT a bastard!"
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Sweeeeeet... :lol:
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I always wanted to mount the two documents in the same frame, along with the legend, "Solid PROOF that despite all the name-calling, I am NOT a bastard!"
Win. :laugh:
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Isolator arc on a 500Kv line in Boulder City, NV. (And interestingly not far off from what happened after Dad tried to wire up his new air compressor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQQMK1Rvq0A
Brad
I saw the explanation for this one. These guys were working on the line to try to figure out why one of the phases wasn't disconnecting properly... Turns out the SF6 "puffer" that is designed to extinguish the arc right as it forms wasn't working. What you were seeing was the arc formed with no real load on it. Here's the full explanation:
http://205.243.100.155/frames/longarc.htm#500_kV_Switch
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=D
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Doesn't that just make you wanna jump right in and rewire your whole house Mrs Smith?
:D
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<yawns> Did that this morning before breakfast...
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<yawns> Did that this morning before breakfast...
And holding the toast and eggs near the arcing to cook breakfast for one's self is called... multitasking.
It's known women are better at that then men.
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And holding the toast and eggs and bacon near the arcing to cook breakfast for one's self is called... multitasking.
It's known women are better at that then men.
FTFY.
And yes, of course we are. It's genetic. Much like asking for directions, not picking things up off the floor and eating/wearing them, reading instruction manuals, not feeling compelled to buy something we don't need just because it's on sale, and not eating food that was left sitting on the counter overnight.
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feeling compelled to buy something we don't need just because it's on sale
This is a trait you ascribe to men?
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Speaking of multitasking....
It has been over 100degF around here for like, forever. Got to 104 yesterday. My attic fan, set to cut on at 95deg, didn't shut off last night.
Anyways, I came across a recipe for "dashboard chocolate chip cookies" the other day that I am going to execute on this week. While I am inside the building working. I normally park in the shadiest place possible and crack open the moon roof. Not that day, baybee!
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Speaking of multitasking....
It has been over 100degF around here for like, forever. Got to 104 yesterday. My attic fan, set to cut on at 95deg, didn't shut off last night.
Anyways, I came across a recipe for "dashboard chocolate chip cookies" the other day that I am going to execute on this week. While I am inside the building working. I normally park in the shadiest place possible and crack open the moon roof. Not that day, baybee!
A friend on Facebook has a pic of someone doing just that on her page.
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This is a trait you ascribe to men?
Yes, it is. If you (meaning most men I know, not you specifically) walk into Ace Hardware and hammers are on sale, buy one, get one free, you'll buy one because you just "saved" the price of a hammer. And because a man can never have too many hammers even if he already has 17 of them in his tool box.
At least, that's how several of my male friends have explained it to me.
Anyways, I came across a recipe for "dashboard chocolate chip cookies" the other day that I am going to execute on this week. While I am inside the building working. I normally park in the shadiest place possible and crack open the moon roof. Not that day, baybee!
Prime example of men seeing nothing wrong with eating food that's been left sitting out. Rooster, I hope there are no eggs or butter in your cookie recipe. Choc chip cookies are usually baked at 375 degrees for 9-11 minutes. I usually take them out after nine so they stay soft and chewy. But the internal temp of your vehicle is likely only a third of what's needed to cook efficiently - or SAFELY.
Still, I'm curious to see how this turns out. Please do post pics.
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Oh good, you've managed to avoid turning yourself into a corpse working on your wiring.
And, a man's multitude of hammers equal's a woman's multitude of shoes.
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And, (a man's multitude of hammers)^3 equal's a woman's multitude of shoes.
Fixed for enhanced truthiness.
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And, a man's multitude of hammers equal's a woman's multitude of shoes.
But, there are so many necessary kinds of hammers! From sledge to deadblow to ball peen to framing to mallet etc.
DD
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And, a man's multitude of hammers equal's a woman's multitude of shoes.
No man can own that many hammers. ;)
My wife has 56 pairs of shoes. I have maybe four hammers of any one style.
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Prime example of men seeing nothing wrong with eating food that's been left sitting out. Rooster, I hope there are no eggs or butter in your cookie recipe. Choc chip cookies are usually baked at 375 degrees for 9-11 minutes. I usually take them out after nine so they stay soft and chewy. But the internal temp of your vehicle is likely only a third of what's needed to cook efficiently - or SAFELY.
Still, I'm curious to see how this turns out. Please do post pics.
That is why there is a specific recipe for this endevor.
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a man can never have too many hammers
You need a hammer for danger.
You need a hammer for warning.
You need a hammer for love between your brothers and sisters.
:lol:
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If I had a hammer............................................
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Yes, it is. If you (meaning most men I know, not you specifically) walk into Ace Hardware and hammers are on sale, buy one, get one free, you'll buy one because you just "saved" the price of a hammer. And because a man can never have too many hammers even if he already has 17 of them in his tool box.
Say what you will, but in my experience most of the "two-day sale!", "buy one get one free" and "today only, 80% off a top that was overpriced 400% yesterday"-style impulse buying is happening over on the softer side of Sears.
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I'm always amused at the discussion that go "Most people I know who do X foolish thing possess one type of genitalia, ergo everyone who possesses them must be inclined to X foolish thing." Always makes me want to tell the person to get better friends... :lol:
That being said, there are certainly male/female differences that are integral not cultural. But some of the things that logic is extended to are a bit shaky.
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Prime example of men seeing nothing wrong with eating food that's been left sitting out. Rooster, I hope there are no eggs or butter in your cookie recipe. Choc chip cookies are usually baked at 375 degrees for 9-11 minutes. I usually take them out after nine so they stay soft and chewy. But the internal temp of your vehicle is likely only a third of what's needed to cook efficiently - or SAFELY.
You sound like my mom....and my wife....
...anytime you put cookie dough in the oven, you're overcooking it.... =D
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I have maybe four hammers of any one style.
Friend of mine, his F-I-L passed away. He had spent his life as a welder. He had probably 50-60 different "styles" of chipping hammers. To get rid of them, my friend gave one of all of those hammers away to just about everyone he knew.
So I have a:
Framing hammer (well three of different weights and claws)
Roofing Hammer
Deadblow Hammer
Chipping Hammer
Ball Peen Hammer
Sledge Hammer (Both hand and pole)
Wood mallet
Brass mallet
Hatchets (Four)
Tack Hammer
Brick Hammer
Drywall Hammer
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Ahhh, but....
This:
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Not this:
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The two normal curves show boys versus girls for a given characteristic, such as tendency to buy hammers, shoes, chain saws. sewing machines, height, or weight, or almost anything except the ability to get pregnant.
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I'm not signing this one so nobody will know who posted it.
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Yes, it is. If you (meaning most men I know, not you specifically) walk into Ace Hardware and hammers are on sale, buy one, get one free, you'll buy one because you just "saved" the price of a hammer. And because a man can never have too many hammers even if he already has 17 of them in his tool box.
At least, that's how several of my male friends have explained it to me.
It doesn't work that way in the real world. REAL men have one favorite hammer, and that's the one they use. They don't need or want a "spare" hammer because they know they won't ever use it. It won't feel the same, it won't balance the same, it just ... just ... it just ISN'T the same. And if it isn't the same, it must be ... different. And real men don't do "different" when it comes to tools.
Haven't you ever heard the story of the man who owns the hatchet George Washington used to chop down that cherry tree? Since George used it that historic day it's had seven new handles and three new heads ... but it's the same hatchet by golly!
(I almost wrote, "by George." Would anyone have forgiven me?)
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I have a brace of 20oz Estwing rip hammers. They are an extension of my hands.
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Imagine the fun if we were all sitting around a table with beverages, cards, and money in the middle.
I KNEW the shoe reference was going to be thrown on the table, so I already went to the closet and counted.
I own exactly:
1 pair boat shoes
1 pair boat flops
1 pair multi-purpose workout shoes (tennis shoes, sneakers, whatever you want to call them)
1 pair dive booties (do those count?)
1 pair Crocs (for garden)
1 pair of shrimper's boots (long story)
1 pair of old Sperry's that don't really work anywhere but they're cute and warm
1 pair winter boots (also made by Sperry but too sexy for the boat) (but they're brown, really need black ones too)
3 pairs low heeled sandals
2 pairs high heeled sandals
1 pair "little-black-dress" strappy sandals (could really use couple more pairs of these)
14 pairs of shoes. I need a new pair of hiking boots, a new pair of cowboy boots to play in and a pair to ride in, more flip flops, and something more ... suitable to wear to shooting competitions that look good with shorts and are easy to move quickly in. So plenty of shoe shopping in my near future!
Mike Irwin - thank you for your concern. No, have managed not to fry myself yet.
Seeker - maybe your wife and mother say that because there's some truth to it? And I agree about the perfection of raw cookie dough, but not after it's been sitting on the dash inside a hot (but not hot enough to cook it) vehicle for an unspecified number of hours!
Balog - can I fix you a cocktail sweetie? We're just having fun here! :facepalm:
Another hammer quote: when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything begins to resemble a nail. Can't recall who said it but I'm sure one of you will jump in with a name.
CYNCacher - apparently you're spending too much time perusing department store ads and not enough time perusing ads from Ace Hardware, Lowe's, Home Depot, or Harbor Freight.
230RN - sewing machines? Really? That was the best you could come up with? While I own one, it wasn't something I got all giddy about buying. Just FYI for the sake of any future discussions on male/female purchases, we're known for our penchant for purses, accessories of all sorts, make-up and hair care products, and house doo-dads. Just to help ya' out there. :)
Hawkmoon - wouldn't want to be the one at your house who uses the hammer and forgets to return it to it's proper location. I suspect the penalty is severe. By George.
Gentlemen, I finished deadline today and I'm now heading out to play pool, snicker at the karaoke folks, and consume some well-deserved beverages. Y'all have fun this evening too.
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I could make something up that sounded freakishly plausible.
Please do.
Hmm, I am afraid Art's Grammaw would box my ears, were I to spin a yarn as salty as that one deserves.
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I have more kids than hammers.
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I wouldn't have so many shoes/boots if I didn't keep all the wore out ones thinking maybe that the day would come when they were the best thing I had left. ;/
One pair of cowboy boots is 95% of what I wear on my feet in the summer, plus my logging boots for fire fighting and a pair of moccasins sometimes around the house.
For the other seasons I have rubber muck boots, sorels, and a pair of redwing insulated hunting boots.
Hammers - let's see I have my good Estwing, a couple of found on road Estwings, a 2lb sledge, and a ball peen, plus a couple splitting mauls, single bit ax and a hatchet that don't really count. Of course there is the ubiquitous "crescent hammer" =D
Come to think of it, most of my guns have hammers :lol:
I could sure use a good stripper - for electric wires, that is :angel:
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I have a brace of 20oz Estwing rip hammers. They are an extension of my hands.
Me, too -- the originals, with the stacked leather washer handles. After using one of those, ALL other hammers feel awkward and clumsy.
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Hawkmoon - wouldn't want to be the one at your house who uses the hammer and forgets to return it to it's proper location. I suspect the penalty is severe. By George.
Funny you should mention that.
My late mother always maintained we had a friendly poltergeist in the house ... whose name (according to her) was George. So whenever something went AWOL, if the initial search came up empty Mom would always cast her eyes ceiling-ward (I guess George mostly lived in the attic) and recite, "George, please bring back [___]."
And, sure enough, within a short time [___] would be found ... generally in a place at least three people had already searched twice each.
Found ... by George.
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I have no idea how many hammers I have.
I have little tiny hammers for delicate work on up to a big honking mostly home made sledge hammer that useing it will either make a man out of you or make you wish you were one.
Hammers for carpentry, metal work, stone work, leather work... Just can't have too many hammers
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Ok Larry, I have to ask. How do you "home make" a sledge hammer? This sounds like something I might need to know.
Home now from my pool shooting endeavor. Won 3, lost 4. Dammit. But I did sink some pretty good shots in the process. And I kicked that whole right hand english thing I've been told I tend toward. I nailed all of my straight on shots for a change! And won money, which is always good.
Hawkmoon, in my house when the kids were little the culprit was always "I don't know." Who left their wet towel on the bathroom floor? "I don't know." I used to tell the kids that I used all three of their names when I was aggravated about something because I Don't Know had three names and I didn't want anyone to feel left out. Still wouldn't want to be the one who left your sole hammer where it didn't belong.
Tall Pine, sounds like you have more shoes than I do. Either you're going to lose your "man club" status or I'm going to lose my "woman club" status. I'll play you a round of darts for it. Wait - that probably automatically kicks me out of the woman club. Um... I'll bet my steak against yours on the grill. Nope, still out of the woman club. F. Ok, let's just shoot it out. I know I'll win at that and if that gets me kicked out of the woman club then so be it.
AJ, you must have a lot of kids or very few hammers. Either way, I'm sorry for ya' darlin'.
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A hammer is anything that's heavier on one end than the other.
Exempli gratia, the "crescent hammer" mentioned above.
If you're thinking "rock," the "other end" is your elbow.
Me go now.
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Excellent point!
I have to admit, I've used shoes, screw drivers (the handle), plyers, meat mallets, a tire iron, on one occasion a book, and a winch handle as hammers when nails needed to be put through something. Then again, I'm a girl and don't have a collection of hammers... but I do make a point of utilizing whatever's at hand for whatever needs to be done. Imagination is a useful thing.
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Funny you should mention that.
My late mother always maintained we had a friendly poltergeist in the house ... whose name (according to her) was George. So whenever something went AWOL, if the initial search came up empty Mom would always cast her eyes ceiling-ward (I guess George mostly lived in the attic) and recite, "George, please bring back [___]."
And, sure enough, within a short time [___] would be found ... generally in a place at least three people had already searched twice each.
Found ... by George.
We have Pat the Ghost here. Not sure if I ever told you about Pat but he is responsible for all things that happen but have no help from anyone else. Dishes mysteriously left in the sink? Pat the Ghost did it. ;)
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Haven't been "sweetie'd" in years. Suddenly I'm picturing MrsSmith as my Mom... :D
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^^^ And that brings up that whole Mrs. Robinson thing. Although I suppose I am showing my age by remembering that.
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Haven't been "sweetie'd" in years. Suddenly I'm picturing MrsSmith as my Mom... :D
And I don't think she is that old. :laugh:
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And I don't think she is that old. :laugh:
And I don't dislike her, so there's another difference right there. ;)
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And I don't dislike her, so there's another difference right there. ;)
Not going there......
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You need a hammer for love between your brothers and sisters.
There are so many things wrong with that sentence. :laugh:
(And, yes, I do get the reference. )
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Ok Larry, I have to ask. How do you "home make" a sledge hammer? This sounds like something I might need to know.
A picture is worth 1000 words
It weighs in about 24#
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb398%2FFLHRI-OK%2F009-1.jpg&hash=ea4b7cadc93b94cae92ba053402eedcfc2913c98)
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^^^ And that brings up that whole Mrs. Robinson thing. Although I suppose I am showing my age by remembering that.
"I have seen the future, and the future is ... plastics."
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I made an all steel single bit axe one time. Use powerline tie straps for the handle.
The balance wasn't quite right :(
Still use it to break ice on the horse troubh in the winter.
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Balog, glad to know you don't dislike me. I actually do call my two boys "sweetie" when I'm giving advice they don't want to hear or chastising them, to take the sting out of it a little. Such as, "Sweetie, I'm your mama, not one of your buddies, and I don't need to know that you got a lap dance from a 65 year old woman for your 21st birthday. Next time just stick an ice pick in my ear please."
Wmenorr, just went and looked at your profile. We're the same age. No idea how old Balog is but doubt I'm old enough to be his mother.
Mrs. Robinson? No. Hell no.
Larry, the handle appears to be held together with electrical tape. That can't be good. But I wouldn't want to try to swing it regardless. That's what handy friends are for anyway.
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I rather think you were taking my commentary a bit more seriously than I was if you felt the need to lessen the sting of your chastisement. ;)
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It doesn't work that way in the real world. REAL men have one favorite hammer, and that's the one they use.
I have lots of hammers because when I need to hit something, I want to hit it now, not after I've gone out to the shed or the garage to get the hammer.
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I have lots of hammers because when I need to hit something, I want to hit it now, not after I've gone out to the shed or the garage to get the hammer.
So you're one of those guys that has hammers hidden all over the house? ;)
Do you have a stainless steel hammer for the shower? :lol:
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Do you have a stainless steel hammer for the shower?
Actually, I do, but it's out in the shed after I used it to deal with some sprinkler issues.
It was granddad's first attempt at welding stainless long ago. Looks like crap, but smacks stuff just fine.
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Balog, glad to know you don't dislike me. I actually do call my two boys "sweetie" when I'm giving advice they don't want to hear or chastising them, to take the sting out of it a little. Such as, "Sweetie, I'm your mama, not one of your buddies, and I don't need to know that you got a lap dance from a 65 year old woman for your 21st birthday. Next time just stick an ice pick in my ear please."
Did your son go to Baylor University?.....'cause that sounds like the strip clubs in Waco.....
.....don't ask me how I know this.... ;)
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Did your son go to Baylor University?.....'cause that sounds like the strip clubs in Waco.....
.....don't ask me how I know this.... ;)
Seeker_two how do you know this?
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Isn't Baylor tied into a church of some kind. The strip clubs in Waco are probably geared more to taking money from those that stationed at FT Hood.
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Actually, I do, but it's out in the shed after I used it to deal with some sprinkler issues.
It was granddad's first attempt at welding stainless long ago. Looks like crap, but smacks stuff just fine.
I used to know some guys like that.
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Seeker_two how do you know this?
That's for me to know and a former female entertainer to never tell..... ;)
Isn't Baylor tied into a church of some kind. The strip clubs in Waco are probably geared more to taking money from those that stationed at FT Hood.
Not hardly....Baylor used to be tied to the Southern Baptist Convention until they split off in 1990....the same year I started there....and the clubs get most of their business from the Waco area (esp. Baylor and TSTC)....there are plenty of places closer to Ft. Hood for the boys in uniform....
....but, again, don't ask me how I know this..... ;)
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This:
Did your son go to Baylor University?.....'cause that sounds like the strip clubs in Waco.....
.....don't ask me how I know this.... ;)
plus this:
That's for me to know and a former female entertainer to never tell..... ;)
...but, again, don't ask me how I know this..... ;)
= this:
apparently seeker has had a lap dance by a grandma type too. Want me to introduce you to my son so y'all can compare notes?
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apparently seeker has had a lap dance by a grandma type too. Want me to introduce you to my son so y'all can compare notes?
Just ask him one question for me......with dentures or without?.... ;)
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Just ask him one question for me......with dentures or without?.... ;)
Don't look down...................... =D
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I think this is seeker_two's idea of a granny:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fverydemotivational.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fdemotivational-posters-dont-mean-to-be-creepy.jpg&hash=53df0497e14fa0fdfac8b7838839cd126bbb8b10)
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I have a few friends my age, early to mid 40's that are grandparents. My sister who will turn 40 in a few weeks has grandkids from (step)-daughters.
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I think this is seeker_two's idea of a granny:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fverydemotivational.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fdemotivational-posters-dont-mean-to-be-creepy.jpg&hash=53df0497e14fa0fdfac8b7838839cd126bbb8b10)
I think you know me all too well...... =D
BTW, Jane Seymore is a granny, too.....
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fshopohboy.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F09%2Fanimalprints.jpg&hash=625d5265c0bdfdfb8ea7ec73aa69819e25ec7970)
http://shopohboy.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/animalprints.jpg (http://shopohboy.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/animalprints.jpg)
I rest my case...... :cool:
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I have a few friends my age, early to mid 40's that are grandparents. My sister who will turn 40 in a few weeks has grandkids from (step)-daughters.
I remember seeing some kind of "human interest" story on the news a couple of years ago about "children of the ghetto" that included a granny in her late 20's . . . :facepalm:
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Just ask him one question for me......with dentures or without?.... ;)
He said he wasn't looking at her teeth. Now I'm just disgusted. Thanks. [barf]
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He said he wasn't looking at her teeth. Now I'm just disgusted. Thanks. [barf]
She has teeth?
Brad
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He said he wasn't looking at her teeth. Now I'm just disgusted. Thanks. [barf]
He didn't necessarily have to look.... ;)
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Does the "Art's Gramma Rule" apply to this thread? =D
DD
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Does the "Art's Gramma Rule" apply to this thread? =D
Depends on her choice of supplemental income, I guess.... =|
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there are plenty of places closer to Ft. Hood for the boys in uniform....
....but, again, don't ask me how I know this..... ;)
Doesn't everyone know that strip clubs, tattoo parlors and pawn shops grow up out of the ground, near military bases, just like alterations/dry-cleaning stores and barber shops?
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Doesn't everyone know that strip clubs, tattoo parlors and pawn shops grow up out of the ground, near military bases, just like alterations/dry-cleaning stores and barber shops?
Hmmmm.....I don't remember too many barber shops near Ft. Hood.....
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Small claw hammer I've had since I was a kid. I think it came with an erector set or something.
Homemade small brass hammer for drifting sights with crooked head.
Better small hammer for drifting sights, etc, with interchangeable nylon and brass hammer faces from Outer's.
Short-swing ball pien hammer.
Regular ball pien hammer with 12oz(?) head.
Sculptor's hammer.
Sears all-steel claw carpenter's hammer from Sears, the most used one -not a framing hammer.
Heavy rubber hammer for "stuff," but main use is banging on the walls if the neighbors get noisty. And floor. Head wrapped in an old woolen sock to prevent marking the wall with black rubber marks.
Small 2-3 lb(?) sledge with short handle.
I think that's it, but I haven't looked in my storage locker for a while.
I was told a long time ago that a carpenter's hammer should have a slightly rounded face to help drive nails without bending them. It sort of makes sense, when you consider hitting a nail slightly "off" --the chances seem to be greater that the rounded face will strike the nail head squarely. I would theorize that the radius of the hammer face should be about the distance from the hammer head to your shoulder joint.
However, I tried gurgling this and couldn't find anything obvious on it.
Can anyone confirm or disconfirm this? My regular Sears hammer has a flat face.
Terry, 230RN
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Hmmmm.....I don't remember too many barber shops near Ft. Hood.....
No? I do.
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The creepiness rule:
Take your age.
Divide it by 2
add 8
If your mate is younger than that number, its creepy/and/or illegal.
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The creepiness rule:
Take your age.
Divide it by 2
add 8
If your mate is younger than that number, its creepy/and/or illegal.
Since I'm 34, dating a 24-year-old would be creepy? I do not understand this. A 14-year-old, sure. A 19-year-old, maybe. But 24?
Doesn't matter, though. The wife would splode my head with .22s.
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ince I'm 34, dating a 24-year-old would be creepy?
Ayup- in a creepy head asplody kind of way/
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The creepiness rule:
Take your age.
Divide it by 2
add 8
If your mate is younger than that number, its creepy/and/or illegal.
I thought Heinlein said it was plus 7.
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Faster horses,
Younger women,
Older whisky,
And more money.
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So by using that theory, it's perfectly acceptable for me to date a 70 y.o. man or for him to date me? What about the creepy factor going in the other direction?? No offense to of any of you who might be that age, but that's older than my mother - and you're welcome to date her but don't call me when it goes to hell. And it would.
So guys my age should be dating girls (and I do mean girls) in their late 20s?
That's it. I'm done dating.
And I read everything Heinlein ever wrote and don't remember this. Maybe because I did the math and blocked it out.
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And I read everything Heinlein ever wrote and don't remember this. Maybe because I did the math and blocked it out.
I could be wrong. This subject came up once before and I thought someone here said it was a Heinlein thing -- which sounded plausible considering some of his other relationship views. :)
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I know I've heard the half plus seven years but as a Muslim pretext.
Same with me, 27+7 is 34? No way dude, not for me. ;)
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29 or 30 for me.....depends on her how mature she is.
Know a lot that are my age that are still not that mature.
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But what about the reverse factor for us girls?? Explain that!!
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But what about the reverse factor for us girls?? Explain that!!
Boys rule and girls drool? ( :O I'll be in the bomb shelter for an extended stay)
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But what about the reverse factor for us girls?? Explain that!!
They are in it for the money.
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Second time you've made a money comment wmenorr, so now I'm compelled to address it.
Yes, there are some women who value status and money above all else and they make the rest of us look bad. Most of the women I know are more concerned with integrity, loyalty, happiness, kindness and someone who'll stand beside them when SHTF. Don't label us all as being motivated by a bank account or I'll start making comments about men's inability to look past a woman's measurements. >:D
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Second time you've made a money comment wmenorr, so now I'm compelled to address it.
Yes, there are some women who value status and money above all else and they make the rest of us look bad. Most of the women I know are more concerned with integrity, loyalty, happiness, kindness and someone who'll stand beside them when SHTF. Don't label us all as being motivated by a bank account or I'll start making comments about men's inability to look past a woman's measurements. >:D
Such my reply about how mature they are or aren't.
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Second time you've made a money comment wmenorr, so now I'm compelled to address it.
Yes, there are some women who value status and money above all else and they make the rest of us look bad. Most of the women I know are more concerned with integrity, loyalty, happiness, kindness and someone who'll stand beside them when SHTF. Don't label us all as being motivated by a bank account or I'll start making comments about men's inability to look past a woman's measurements. >:D
Integrity = Doesn't do illegal stuff that jeopardizes the money.
Loyalty = Doesn't spend the money on other women.
Happiness = Spends the money on me.
Kindness = Not only spends the money on me, but for the stuff I actually want.
SHTF = Well diversified portfolio.
:angel:
Is this absolutely craven self-serving attempt to turn this thread into a discussion of "measurements" working?
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The creepiness rule:
Take your age.
Divide it by 2
add 8
If your mate is younger than that number, its creepy/and/or illegal.
I can take my age and divide it by 4 and then add 8....and I'd still be legal.....
Guess this means I'm old now, right?.... :facepalm:
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So by using that theory, it's perfectly acceptable for me to date a 70 y.o. man or for him to date me?
Is he wealthy ? :lol:
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Don't laugh, one of my doctor's aides (30 yo) married a 58 YO guy. My first question, "Does he have money?" Answer, "No."
Go figure... ???
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/29/ex-louisiana-gov-edwin-edwards-marries-prison-pen-pal-less-than-half-his-age/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews
Ex-Louisiana Gov. Edwin Edwards Marries Prison Pen Pal Less Than Half His Age
Then there is this. He will be 84 next month and she is 32.
Plus then again who can forget Mr. Playboy himself Hef.
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Plus then again who can forget Mr. Playboy himself Hef.
.....or Felix Unger..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Randall#Personal_life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Randall#Personal_life)....
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George Burns :cool:
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You're ALL incorrigible.
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I can take my age and divide it by 4 and then add 8....and I'd still be legal.....
Legal, but creepy.
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You're ALL incorrigible.
Yeah, and?
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You're ALL incorrigible.
I wouldn't say that I'm incorrigible.....I just haven't had the proper person to corrige me yet.... =D
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You're ALL incorrigible.
What's your point? =D
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The new avatar - is that supposed to be Keira Knightly?
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I could be wrong. This subject came up once before and I thought someone here said it was a Heinlein thing -- which sounded plausible considering some of his other relationship views. :)
Heinlein quoted it as coming from Mohammed, IIRC. He (or his character - don't remember which book it was) was at least semi-approving, I believe.
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The new avatar - is that supposed to be Keira Knightly?
No. Guess again.
Seeker - good luck with the corridging. Let us know how that works out for you.
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No. Guess again.
Seeker - good luck with the corridging. Let us know how that works out for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Bonny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Bonny)
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Heinlein quoted it as coming from Mohammed, IIRC. He (or his character - don't remember which book it was) was at least semi-approving, I believe.
Just for the record I read the version I'm aware of in Malcom X's autobiography as being put to him by Farrakhan.
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No. Guess again.
Julia Child?
It would be - interesting - if we turned to Mohammed for advice on how old our SO's should be. I mean, when it comes to creepy, he outdoes even Joseph Smith in revealing his own sexual proclivities in his new religious doctrine.
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Good job adively.
Fistful. Really?
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Good job adively.
Fistful. Really?
You mean, did I really think it was Julia Child? I figured that guess was as good as any other.
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You mean, did I really think it was Julia Child? I figured that guess was as good as any other.
Considering that the other guess was Anne Bonny....no, it really wasn't....
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Uh, I meant from me, since I had no idea who it was. I don't know much about pirates.
I guess I could have gone with Joan of Arc.
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You mean, did I really think it was Julia Child? I figured that guess was as good as any other.
Maybe. If the other guess was Barbara Woodhouse.
DD
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Uh, I meant from me, since I had no idea who it was. I don't know much about pirates.
I guess I could have gone with Joan of Arc.
I forget y'all don't know me that well. Me using Julia Child as an avatar would be like... I don't know, Fistful using Mike Rowe as an avatar.
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Why would I not use Mike Rowe? (Other than not having TV, so I didn't know who he was.)
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I forget y'all don't know me that well. Me using Julia Child as an avatar would be like... I don't know, Fistful using Mike Rowe as an avatar.
Better example....more like fistful using Mark Wahlberg as his avatar....
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestcelebritylinks.com%2Fm%2Fmark_wahlberg%2Fmarkwahlberg.jpg&hash=d021a03318961c1c01537c6ee1b49c845335f7e7)
http://www.bestcelebritylinks.com/m/mark_wahlberg/markwahlberg.jpg (http://www.bestcelebritylinks.com/m/mark_wahlberg/markwahlberg.jpg)
=D
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The Heinlein quote is from "The Number of the Beast". And it's halve the age and add 7....
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LXXII / II = XXXVI
XXXVI + VII = XLIII
Seems about right. Probably including the notation, too.
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Better example....more like fistful using Mark Wahlberg as his avatar....
=D
Like so?
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Like so?
Your drawers are showing. Shouldn't there be a law against that ???
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No drawers showing on my avatar. :angel:
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No drawers showing on my avatar. :angel:
I can see them if I scroll down :P
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In this one instance, it's ALL seeker's fault.
Don't give me that "huh?" look seeker, you know what you did.
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So, this thread has gone on for 9 pages...and I'm not going back to read it...
Did the light get fixed? Or has procrastination taken hold?
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I don't know if she got her light fixed, but I spent my whole extra day off working on our dishwasher. :facepalm: There were electrical connections and circuit breakers involved. That ought to be worth something.
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I don't know if she got her light fixed, but I spent my whole extra day off working on our dishwasher. :facepalm: There were electrical connections and circuit breakers involved. That ought to be worth something.
OK, but did you actually get it fixed?
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OK, but did you actually get it fixed?
Don't know yet, running a load now. It's been doing a crappy job cleaning things lately. I figured there were clogged lines or spray bars or something, so pulled it out from under the counter and took it out to the garage. Found the main filter about 3/5 clogged with crap on its inner surface. I could have cleaned that in place, but pulling it provided the opportunity to give it a good cleaning, fix some loose brackets that hold the top basket, fix a few leaks, replace the drain adapter to the garbage disposal, etc. It will have been worth it if it works. If it doesn't, then it's off to the appliance store for a new one later this week.
Although, given how clogged the filter was, I'm not surprised it wasn't cleaning well.
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In this one instance, it's ALL seeker's fault.
Don't give me that "huh?" look seeker, you know what you did.
Yes....and it's all according to my plan.....
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fguyism.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fpinky-brain-pic.gif&hash=50a34d19f31a4987e56b988474dd1fa3a403e4a6)
http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/pinky-brain-pic.gif (http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/pinky-brain-pic.gif)
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So, this thread has gone on for 9 pages...and I'm not going back to read it...
Did the light get fixed? Or has procrastination taken hold?
Um. Well. Uh.
I haven't had time. The handy friend is available when I'm busy and I have time when he's busy. There's a light in the hallway that shines in. I can do laundry during the day while I'm working and don't need a light. The power outlets in the two bathrooms are now not working either so I'm waiting to see what else breaks next.
Procrastination is my middle name...
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LOL I figured that procrastination might have occurred...I do the exact same thing...
The power outlets in the two bathrooms are now not working either so I'm waiting to see what else breaks next.
Are you sure they are not working or are you having some kind of GFCI fun? Try looking for reset buttons on the outlets or check the panel box for tripped GFCI breakers. I find an awful lot of people don't realize that their outlets may be GFCI equipped until they trip and then they try to find out what's wrong with their power...
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Glad to hear I'm not the only one who ... delays in completing household tasks. I knew it would be you that would eventually ask about it though! :)
One has a reset button but nothing happens when I push it, still doesn't work. The other does not have a reset button. Suppose it could be a fuse but again, fuse box still hasn't been labeled either.
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One has a reset button but nothing happens when I push it, still doesn't work. The other does not have a reset button. Suppose it could be a fuse but again, fuse box still hasn't been labeled either.
One's a GFCI outlet and the other outlet is probably wired with it, giving it GFCI outlet protection to the second outlet (but goes offline if the main GFCI outlet is tripped)
Couple things about GFCI outlets...
A properly working one is supposed to trip when you press the test button and reset when you hit the reset button, provided it has power. If it doesn't have power, nothing happens.
First thing you need to find out is if the GFCI outlet has power going to it, i.e., a fuse isn't blown and a breaker is not tripped are the simplest ways. Breakers are obvious, fuses take a bit closer inspection...check them all out.
Now, if the GFCI outlet has power but is not doing right, then it likely needs to be replaced (I replace a few each year here at work). Simple matter...you cut the power, you ensure the power is off, and you unhook one wire at a time and connect it to the replacement receptacle's terminals, ensuring the three wires are hooked up correctly. Black wire goes to the gold plated screw, white wire goes to the silver screw, green goes to greenish screw. Re-install and cut the power back on and test.
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Don't know yet, running a load now. It's been doing a crappy job cleaning things lately.
Try white vinegar. Ours was doing a crappy job. SWMBO has started putting about a quarter cup of vinegar in when she loads the soap. Soap tablet goes in the door, vinegar just gets dumped in the bottom of the dishwasher. We don't use Jet Dry now that we're using vinegar. Try it. If it works, it's a cheap fix.
DD
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Try white vinegar. Ours was doing a crappy job. SWMBO has started putting about a quarter cup of vinegar in when she loads the soap. Soap tablet goes in the door, vinegar just gets dumped in the bottom of the dishwasher. We don't use Jet Dry now that we're using vinegar. Try it. If it works, it's a cheap fix.
DD
Great minds think alike, DD. Vinegar was one of the first things we did. But it was before the massive cleaning I gave the dishwasher today. It's run two loads now, and they both looked good. We'll wait to run a few more before it's pronounced fixed. We might even run a couple more batches of vinegar through it.
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Try white vinegar. Ours was doing a crappy job. SWMBO has started putting about a quarter cup of vinegar in when she loads the soap. Soap tablet goes in the door, vinegar just gets dumped in the bottom of the dishwasher. We don't use Jet Dry now that we're using vinegar. Try it. If it works, it's a cheap fix.
DD
We put white vinegar right in the jet-dry reservoir. Seems to work well.
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We put white vinegar right in the jet-dry reservoir. Seems to work well.
Same for us. Works well and is cheap compared to Jet-Dry.
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Go Vinegar!
We go through a goodly bit of it around here between the dishwasher and cleaning the CPAP gear and humidifiers. Good to see we're not alone.
DD
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Vinegar clean coffee maker and soothe itchy foot fungus. Just don't reverse the order.
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Vinegar clean coffee maker....
I use it on mine....plus, vinegar is the best way to disinfect a CPAP machine....just soak the mask, air hose, and reservoir in a 1:10 vinegar/water mix for 1-2 hours every week....
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Go Vinegar!
We go through a goodly bit of it around here between the dishwasher and cleaning the CPAP gear and humidifiers. Good to see we're not alone.
DD
SWMBO makes a peppermint/vinegar floor cleaner and some other type of vinegar wall cleaner.
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Vinegar clean coffee maker and soothe itchy foot fungus. Just don't reverse the order.
If you're very very lucky =|
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Don't know yet, running a load now. It's been doing a crappy job cleaning things lately. I figured there were clogged lines or spray bars or something, so pulled it out from under the counter and took it out to the garage. Found the main filter about 3/5 clogged with crap on its inner surface. I could have cleaned that in place, but pulling it provided the opportunity to give it a good cleaning, fix some loose brackets that hold the top basket, fix a few leaks, replace the drain adapter to the garbage disposal, etc. It will have been worth it if it works. If it doesn't, then it's off to the appliance store for a new one later this week.
Although, given how clogged the filter was, I'm not surprised it wasn't cleaning well.
Check your dishwasher detergent. Many states have banned phosphates in household cleaners, and most makers just dropped the trisodium phosphate rather than make two different kinds for "ban states" and "free states". And of course the new "green" ones absolutely suck. They're mostly just Sodium Carbonate, which is a water softener, some bases like sodium hydroxide and others (take a stab at saponifying any greases or oils... and do a $#!%*@ job of it too, leaving it all over your other dishes...) and a bit of low foam surfactant.
Mainly, the new phosphate-free stuff is just letting the heat and agitation of the dishwasher itself do most of the work... :mad:
And it's not just the libtarded 17 state legislatures that caused this. Phosphate prices are up, and the detergent makers saw an opportunity to cut their bottom line in the name of being "green".
Even better, the restaurant and service industries lobbied these legislatures, and commercial diswasher products still have trisodium phosphate in them. :P
Now that you know this... I have an easy fix: http://www.chemistrystore.com/Trisodium_Phosphate-TriSodium_Phosphate_8lbs.html Just throw in a teaspoon or two with your normal "green" detergent, and all is right with the world again.
If the algae blooms so bad in the lake that I can walk to the western shore of Michigan from Milwaukee? I don't give a damn. I just want clean dishes.
I suspect TONS of people have chucked their dishwashers for new ones, thinking it was the machines, and are oblivious as to what's happened to the detergent. :-X
Or, if you don't like mixing it yourself, you can get the commercial grade stuff shipped to you as well: http://www.restockit.com/cascade-automatic-dishwasher-detergent-85-oz-(34953pg).html 32lbs ought to last most people awhile.
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Now the tough guys on APS are talking about dishwashers... ;/
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Now the tough guys on APS are talking about dishwashers... ;/
And dishwasher detergent.
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Thread driiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiift.
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Talking about toxic chemicals, the machines that use them, and the environmental impact thereto, are suitable topics for the APS tough guys and gals. :angel:
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The dishwasher always does a better job when you have Fido do the pre-wash.
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Talking about toxic chemicals, the machines that use them, and the environmental impact thereto, are suitable topics for the APS tough guys and gals. :angel:
Considering the chemical burns I got while working with the dish washing machines at a large hospital....yeah, I think it's manly enough....wanna see my scars?....
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The dishwasher always does a better job when you have Fido do the pre-wash.
QFT
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Talking about toxic chemicals, the machines that use them, and the environmental impact thereto, are suitable topics for the APS tough guys and gals. :angel:
Next time I need something rationalized, I'm coming to you Millcreek.
Avenger - thanks for the tips. But I have an idea.
Nevermind.
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Now the tough guys on APS are talking about dishwashers... ;/
We always talk about wimmins. This is not new.
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Oh no, you really just posted that didnt you?
I dare you to come down here and say that.
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:lol:
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Oh it is going to be so fun. [popcorn]
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Oh no, you really just posted that didnt you?
I dare you to come down here and say that.
>:D
I only posted that for you =D
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft33%2FAJ_Dual%2F760321612.jpg&hash=801ca3490c691f080fee369dc830cbceeb05ad8c)
(This is the part of the assessment process where we test a new female member's tolerance for tongue in cheek chauvinism.)
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Oh no, you really just posted that didnt you?
I dare you to come down here and say that.
You want to wash his dishes?
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Nah. Not worth it. He'd just cry like a little girl and his wife might not let him come out and play with us anymore. Then again...
While women may be capable of doing dishes, and more than likely do them better than a man would, that's far from all we're capable of, physically, mentally or emotionally. A man, on the other hand, is pretty much good for anything that requires brute strength or force, and possibly killing spiders, but are somewhat lacking in more refined action or thought. If it weren't for women, y'all would still be living in caves.
:angel: Of course, I'm only speaking generally. I'm sure most of you gentlemen (aside from Cacher, Seeker and Fistful) have evolved more substantially and can contribute to interpersonal relationships, solve complicated problems, and appreciate all that's good in the world. Namely us girls.
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If it weren't for women, y'all would still be living in caves.
You say that like it's a bad thing...?
Just think - wouldn't have to muck around with no electric wiring.
Could spend all our time huntin', fishin', and ridin' fast horses. =D
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:angel: Of course, I'm only speaking generally. I'm sure most of you gentlemen (aside from Cacher, Seeker and Fistful) have evolved more substantially and can contribute to interpersonal relationships, solve complicated problems, and appreciate all that's good in the world. Namely us girls.
Do you really want to drag me into this discussion?.... =|
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You say that like it's a bad thing...?
Just think - wouldn't have to muck around with no electric wiring.
Could spend all our time huntin', fishin', and ridin' fast horses. =D
Well, there would be the frantic gathering of dried moss in little bundles, and leaving some extra supplies for the women once a month, before the men all retreat to the "other cave" to hide. [tinfoil]
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A friend mine posted on her FaceBook wall that her 7 year old son walks up to her 14 year old daughter and says:
"Bacon. Cook it. Now."
They grow up so fast these days....*sniff*
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Yes yes, we all know how you wimmins secretly believe you are truly superior to us mens and we just quietly chuckle to ourselves and leave it that way. Well, the smart ones do anyways. :angel:
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If it weren't for women, y'all would still be living in caves.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.film-tvtieins.com%2Fshop_image%2Fproduct%2F21028.jpg&hash=a4fb17b8da0e399fdf9ea41ca6607ed9736afe59)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.loesch.org%2F%7Earviel%2Fcave.gif&hash=5ca9aade4325bea3bb866b5dae48df5a5d9837dd)
X
^ (Terry --his mark)
(Image credit in properties)
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Do you really want to drag me into this discussion?.... =|
Well Seeker, I didn't want you to feel left out...
AJ! <insert glare here>
The rest of you can rationalize all you like. =)
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Well Seeker, I didn't want you to feel left out...
Do you know why God told wives to submit to their husbands?
He wanted to remind women that they don't know how to do everything....
=D
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Do you know why God told wives to submit to their husbands?
He wanted to remind women that they don't know how to do everything....
=D
I am not a wife. Therefore that doesn't apply to me. =D
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I am not a wife. Therefore that doesn't apply to me. =D
That's OK....it doesn't apply to my wife either...Y'all must be related... =D
BTW, did I see a FB pic of you in a compromising position with an alligator?.... =|
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Now there's a twist I didn't see coming. :laugh:
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The rest of you can rationalize all you like.
I figure if being rational gets me through the day I'm all for it. ;)
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Do you know why God told wives to submit to their husbands?
He wanted to remind women that they don't know how to do everything....
=D
I saw a video exposition on that, by RC Sproul IIRC ...
He said the greek word for "own" as in "their own husband" was something like "idios"
So, wives are supposed to submit to their idiot husbands =D
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That's OK....it doesn't apply to my wife either...Y'all must be related... =D
BTW, did I see a FB pic of you in a compromising position with an alligator?.... =|
Your wife and I are both just smart.
As to the gator, if you mean sitting on him, then yes. That was a couple days prior to eating him for dinner.
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As to the gator, if you mean sitting on him, then yes. That was a couple days prior to eating him for dinner.
Come on....you have to tell us that story....we haven't had that many gator wrestlers come here to APS....
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Especially lady ones... :O
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I'm afraid it isn't all that stimulating. I spent a couple days riding around with the local nuisance gator guy for an article. We got a call on a "huge" gator in a pond in a subdivision. Got there and it did look pretty big sitting on the opposite bank from where we were. Gator guy let me do it all. Put a big slab of raw liver on a treble hook and cast out across the pond (offshore type fishing rod). Let it drift until the gator finally decided to investigate, then when he has it in his mouth, let the line play out so he doesn't get suspicious. When he got back to his resting place on the other bank, had to wait some more for him to swallow it - no real way to set the hook due to teeth, etc. Once you're pretty sure he's swallowed it, start the reeling in process - easily the hardest part of the whole thing. As soon as I started reeling, the gator dove. I kept reeling but he stopped moving. Gator guy said I had to wait him out. They can stay submerged for a couple hours, but luckily this one didn't - it was about 100 degrees and 95% humidity that day. I finally got him over to the bank, Gator guy got the noose around his neck and I sat on the gator while his mouth was wrapped. He was a lot smaller close up than I expected, only about 5' long (and most of that is snout and tail), which meant he could be kept or released. We gave it a couple days to see if the hook would pass, it didn't, I got dinner out of it. And a decent article. If you want to see the pic, PM me and I'll send it to you.
I also got to help release a few smaller gators in the 3 - 4 foot range. If you've ever held a shark that size, the body strength is about the same.
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I'm afraid it isn't all that stimulating. I spent a couple days riding around with the local nuisance gator guy for an article. We got a call on a "huge" gator in a pond in a subdivision. Got there and it did look pretty big sitting on the opposite bank from where we were. Gator guy let me do it all. Put a big slab of raw liver on a treble hook and cast out across the pond (offshore type fishing rod). Let it drift until the gator finally decided to investigate, then when he has it in his mouth, let the line play out so he doesn't get suspicious. When he got back to his resting place on the other bank, had to wait some more for him to swallow it - no real way to set the hook due to teeth, etc. Once you're pretty sure he's swallowed it, start the reeling in process - easily the hardest part of the whole thing. As soon as I started reeling, the gator dove. I kept reeling but he stopped moving. Gator guy said I had to wait him out. They can stay submerged for a couple hours, but luckily this one didn't - it was about 100 degrees and 95% humidity that day. I finally got him over to the bank, Gator guy got the noose around his neck and I sat on the gator while his mouth was wrapped. He was a lot smaller close up than I expected, only about 5' long (and most of that is snout and tail), which meant he could be kept or released. We gave it a couple days to see if the hook would pass, it didn't, I got dinner out of it. And a decent article. If you want to see the pic, PM me and I'll send it to you.
I also got to help release a few smaller gators in the 3 - 4 foot range. If you've ever held a shark that size, the body strength is about the same.
You still have both arms, right ???
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PM me the pics, plz!
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Andouille -style gator sausage.. That's pretty yummo... =)
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So do gators really taste like chicken?
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So do gators really taste like chicken?
Yes, like slightly fishy chicken. Although, so do a lot of wild waterfowl that weren't fed on grain.
Although considering birds and reptiles closeness on the ol' tree of life, it shouldn't be a complete shock.
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I think they taste kind of like a cross between chicken and pork, not really fishy but maybe mildly gamey. You can tell the larger and older gators because they're tough. The smaller ones like the one I caught (5') are pretty tender.
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Did you manage a nice pair of shoes and a handbag out of it too? =D
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Did you manage a nice pair of shoes and a handbag out of it too? =D
Screw that, think holsters!
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PM me the pics, plz!
Same here.....
Wow!....you really set the bar high for first dates...... =D
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Screw that, think holsters!
My bad... =(
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could make a nice set of 1911 grips as well. take a nice/cheap hard wood and contact adhesive the skin to the wood. wrapped slightly into a cutout on the underside to prevent pealing. =)
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Oooh, I declined the hide as I didn't think I'd have any use for it at the time. I'm not an alligator shoes or bag kind of girl. But now a holster!! Think I might have to give him a call and arrange for another trip - it wouldn't be right just to get another section of hide, it needs to be one I caught. Don't have a 1911 - yet. But that's a great idea for when I get one. Thanks guys!
Seeker, you've seen the pic on my fb page. It's in the Wild Savannah album. And I'm done with first dates for a while. Completely over that whole dating thing. Ugh.
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A thing that has worried me on and off was that the devil in the blue dress on wore an alligator hat. I often wonder whether it was a live or a dead alligator hat. I think a live one would be much cooler. You know, cosmetically speaking. Temperaturally speaking a live alligator hat might actually keep you quite warm. But I wouldn't know. You have to ask, yes, the devil with the blue dress on. ;)
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If large enough a holster and belt combo.
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Oooh, I declined the hide as I didn't think I'd have any use for it at the time. I'm not an alligator shoes or bag kind of girl. But now a holster!! Think I might have to give him a call and arrange for another trip - it wouldn't be right just to get another section of hide, it needs to be one I caught. Don't have a 1911 - yet. But that's a great idea for when I get one. Thanks guys!
When you get your hide, give this guy a call....
http://www.dragonleatherworks.com/ (http://www.dragonleatherworks.com/)
He does impressive things with various hides....even did a stingray-hide holster for one guy...
Seeker, you've seen the pic on my fb page. It's in the Wild Savannah album. And I'm done with first dates for a while. Completely over that whole dating thing. Ugh.
You mean you don't have a "not-safe-for-FB" picture album?.... ;)
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280, what are you smoking?? =D
wmenorr - excellent idea!
seeker - I have a guy here in GA that does good work but I'll give your guy a look - I might want a stingray holster myself.
As to my pics, if they're "not-safe-for-FB" then they're "not-safe-for-seeker."
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280, what are you smoking?? =D
Shhhhh, :O
=D
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you holding out bro? ???
:laugh:
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As to my pics, if they're "not-safe-for-FB" then they're "not-safe-for-seeker."
Aw, shucks..... :'(
=D
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280, what are you smoking?? =D
My cigars that never arrived. :laugh:
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looks like I go to the post office monday. :mad:
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PM me your address so I can start something from this end as to the return address.
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I got a big pile of books I got get boxed up and sent to you...
I would think that some reading material would help pass the time.....
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Stick a few emergency stogies in there for him. ;)