Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MrsSmith on August 15, 2011, 07:29:59 PM
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Got a young kid who's interested in getting into the gun manufacturing biz when he grows up. Plans to start out in the service, he's leaning toward Marines but might consider Army too.
Any of you current or former Marines or Army guys here - can you recommend an MOS that will give him hands on practical experience with various small arms weaponry?
Thanks!
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Experience using it, or working on it?
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In the Marines it should be a 2111 (small arms repairer/tech) and 2112 (precision weapons repairer/tech).
The danger comes in if the recruiter can't gaurantee him the occupational field. When I enlisted they only promised an MOS (IE, I was in the 7200 field, with the field of 7252).
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Experience using it, or working on it?
Either. Both.
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Either. Both.
Experience using in the MP and grunt MOS's. Fixing, 2111.
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If it's working on them, unless he goes to some where like Anniston Army Depot or Rock Island Arsenal, all he'll do is count and re-count them, along with swapping out broken parts and filling out paper work to send them in for overhaul.
Unit Armorer is more of an accounting (and paperwork) function then any real gunsmithing.
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Unit Armorer is more of an accounting (and paperwork) function then any real gunsmithing.
In my unit it wasn't even an MOS, they grabbed whomever looked good from the engineer ranks and sent them to the basic armorer's school.
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Got a young kid who's interested in getting into the gun manufacturing biz when he grows up. Plans to start out in the service, he's leaning toward Marines but might consider Army too.
Any of you current or former Marines or Army guys here - can you recommend an MOS that will give him hands on practical experience with various small arms weaponry?
Thanks!
I expect he'd want to talk to the Army Marksmanship Unit.
I believe that those are the guys that push the accuracy edge of deployed small arms, and get involved with provisioning rifles to SDM's and snipers.
However, to get in there he's going to need "something" that distinguishes himself from everyone else that wants in there. I suspect that a lot of the junior high power competitors that want into the Army end up going over to the AMU. Maybe some physics and chemistry geeks, too.
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I expect he'd want to talk to the Army Marksmanship Unit.
I believe that those are the guys that push the accuracy edge of deployed small arms, and get involved with provisioning rifles to SDM's and snipers.
However, to get in there he's going to need "something" that distinguishes himself from everyone else that wants in there. I suspect that a lot of the junior high power competitors that want into the Army end up going over to the AMU. Maybe some physics and chemistry geeks, too.
You're slipping. I would have expected you to mention the ability to shoot better everyone else might help too and suggest an appleseed (http://appleseedinfo.org/) ...
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11b, then get real good and go to the army marksmanship unit
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Any of you current or former Marines or Army guys here - can you recommend an MOS that will give him hands on practical experience with various small arms weaponry?
Thanks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_occupation_code
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_careers
For the Army, I think these are the ones to look at:
- 89A Ammunition Stock Control and Accounting Specialist (Questionable)
- 89B Ammunition Specialist (Questionable)
- 91F Small Arms/Artillery Repairer (formerly 45B)
- 91K Armament Repairer (formerly 45K)
Or good old 11Bravo -- Combat Infantryman
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If it's working on them, unless he goes to some where like Anniston Army Depot or Rock Island Arsenal, all he'll do is count and re-count them, along with swapping our broken parts and filling out paper work to send them in for overhaul.
Unit Armorer is more of an accounting (and paperwork) function then any real gunsmithing.
He ain't joking.
[I went to Armorer School in the IDF because I didn't know this. I learned PDQ.]
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11b, then get real good and go to the army marksmanship unit
11b is infantry, if you didn't know. I was infantry, and we played with:
Assault rifles:
M16A2
M4
Machine guns:
M249
M240
M60
M2
Grenade launchers:
M203
M19
Electric, chain-driven cannon:
M242
Rocket launchers:
AT-4
M47
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11b is infantry, if you didn't know. I was infantry, and we played with:
Assault rifles:
M16A2
M4
Machine guns:
M249
M240
M60
M2
Grenade launchers:
M203
M19
Electric, chain-driven cannon:
M242
Rocket launchers:
AT-4
M47
Yes, sorry... I typed my message quickly. SQL cluster taking a gigantic dump, and i'm in a poopstorm. It's 11 o'clock and I'm still at work, with no sign of leaving. I've been on the clock since 6am
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_occupation_code
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_careers
For the Army, I think these are the ones to look at:
- 89A Ammunition Stock Control and Accounting Specialist (Questionable)
- 89B Ammunition Specialist (Questionable)
- 91F Small Arms/Artillery Repairer (formerly 45B)
- 91K Armament Repairer (formerly 45K)
Or good old 11Bravo -- Combat Infantryman
89A and 89B don't even get near weapons. They are at ASP's counting bullets. Even more boring then counting rifles.
91F is the (old) Unit Armorer. Like I said they count rifles, fill out paperwork, swap out broken firing pins and missing front sight posts, count rifles, fill out more paperwork and count rifles.
91K is the (old) Turret Mechanic. You get to fix the bigger guns (120mm Tank guns and 155mm Howitzers) But that also means that when a trainee buries the main gun into 4 feet of (formerly Kentucky) Georgia mud, you're the poor bastard that gets to see if he damaged the recoil system, bent or cracked the tube, by test firing it, with the master blaster, from the inside. And no, the Cadet there for CTLT is smarter then that. Mostly you fix all the electronics in the turret that get boogered up by CDAT's that are just one step removed from the pond scum that spawned them. However, Crunchies are just as good as, if not better then boogering up weapons.
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So apparently no one really works on hand guns in the Army other than minor firing pin and sight issues? So where do all the "broken" guns go???
Jamis - he's leaning toward Marines anyway so maybe 2111 would be a good thing for him to try for? Does he have a better chance of getting into that MOS with higher ASVAB scores or is there anything he can do to get his first choice?
Thanks guys!
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all the "Broken" guns go to lazy civilian shitheads who take 2 hour lunches, don't like to show up on time, and file bogus reports about how you "abused" a weapon during training and should pay for it.
I'm not bitter, though
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So apparently no one really works on hand guns in the Army other than minor firing pin and sight issues? So where do all the "broken" guns go???
Jamis - he's leaning toward Marines anyway so maybe 2111 would be a good thing for him to try for? Does he have a better chance of getting into that MOS with higher ASVAB scores or is there anything he can do to get his first choice?
Thanks guys!
The only branch of service that will actually let you have the MOS you choose, provided you meet the requirements is the Army. The Marines and others might try but usually stick you where you are needed based on your potential. Like Fitz said, most of the work on weapons done now is by civilians.
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The only branch of service that will actually let you have the MOS you choose, provided you meet the requirements is the Army. The Marines and others might try but usually stick you where you are needed based on your potential. Like Fitz said, most of the work on weapons done now is by civilians.
This is factually incorrect.
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This is factually incorrect.
Well then factually correct it. Please.
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So apparently no one really works on hand guns in the Army other than minor firing pin and sight issues? So where do all the "broken" guns go???
Jamis - he's leaning toward Marines anyway so maybe 2111 would be a good thing for him to try for? Does he have a better chance of getting into that MOS with higher ASVAB scores or is there anything he can do to get his first choice?
Thanks guys!
He'll have to go Army. Marines can't count guns, much less repair them.
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He'll have to go Army. Marines can't count guns, much less repair them.
Hey now. When it comes to weapons us jarheads are idiot savants.
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Well then factually correct it. Please.
There is one specific type of enlistment contract wherein your MOS field is not specified, the so called "open" contract. Those you just get stuck doing whatever the service needs, which is why most cooks and disbursers are open contract guys.
Most contracts are for a specific field, if not an exact specialty within it. For example, my contract specified I would be in the infantry field (03--) but the exact specialty was open (I ended up as an assaultman, 0351). That is the way most contracts are written, across the services from my understanding, but certainly in the Marines. Some are even more specific, especially among the pogues. And all presume that you can successfully complete your MOS school.
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I got to tour the Precision Weapons section of MCB Quantico's armory. Apparently they pull unit armorers from around the Corps for a 3 year tour there. Full on machine shop, best facility I've ever seen, they build all the USMC sniper weapons and match guns. The trick is getting there. No guaranteed MOS=no sign contract.
Option #2 kid goes military for 4 years, does whatever floats his boat, takes GI bill and skips on down to Colorado School of Trades.
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I got to tour the Precision Weapons section of MCB Quantico's armory. Apparently they pull unit armorers from around the Corps for a 3 year tour there. Full on machine shop, best facility I've ever seen, they build all the USMC sniper weapons and match guns. The trick is getting there. No guaranteed MOS=no sign contract.
Option #2 kid goes military for 4 years, does whatever floats his boat, takes GI bill and skips on down to Colorado School of Trades.
The Marines also build thier own 1911's for the MEUSOC.....
Oh, and, what Balog said.
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A lot of good ground has been covered already. I'll just second the statement that going into the military isn't a great way to learn to repair weapons. Your friend might be able to work something in the area he's interested in but it's far more likely he'd end up counting barrels and typing up turn in paperwork than custom machining stuff for the AMU or the Quantico armory. Especially since it sounds like he's interested in doing four years and out rather than making a career of it.
My recommendation is to take French G's COA #2. Go be a tanker or Infantry or whatever floats his boat. Be warned, it'll suck. But he'll probably enjoy it a lot more than sitting in an arms room issuing weapons. And he'll probably get some neat opportunities. After that he can use the GI Bill to go get education or training to do what he really wants to do.
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Got a young kid who's interested in getting into the gun manufacturing biz when he grows up. Plans to start out in the service, he's leaning toward Marines but might consider Army too.
Any of you current or former Marines or Army guys here - can you recommend an MOS that will give him hands on practical experience with various small arms weaponry?
Thanks!
I bolded the part that struck me the first time, and that I don't think has been addressed. Gun manufacturing is just like any other industrial gig. If he wants to get into it he can either move to where a factory is and apply for grunt labor, goto a trade school to become a machinist and then move and aplly, or get some variety of mechanical engineering degree then move and apply. Time in the .mil will be no more beneficial to him than it would be to anyone looking to go into any other field.
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Wonders never cease....I find myself in agreeance with Balog twice in one thread. Seems like there are better ways into the gun .biz....
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Wonders never cease....I find myself in agreeance with Balog twice in one thread. Seems like there are better ways into the gun .biz....
I'll try not to make it a habit =D
But yeah, in thinking about it getting "into the gun .biz" there are probably a lot more sales/marketing/business etc type positions available than anything involving lathes and milling machines. Now, I think .mil experience is probably helpful in interviews in many industries just because it tends to teach valuable life lessons. And I think there are more .mil folks in the firearms industry than the average industrial/manufacturing business.
But the sad reality of the .mil is that outside the infantry, most MOS's are regular jobs with uniforms and a range trip once a year if you're lucky. I only know the Marines, but non-infantry MOS's get formal square range instruction in boot camp and a few weeks at... umm, whatever they called the non-grunt combat school right after boot camp. AIT maybe? Even as a grunt I spent way way way more time sitting in a crap-tastic barracks room pretending to care about M2 barrel dimensions or cleaning my rifle so much the damn anodizing was getting worn off than doing anything remotely useful.
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Well then factually correct it. Please.
Based on my ASVAB and basic physics/nuclear testing results, I was permitted to select my general field (nuclear) and specific NEC (3383, surface vessel reactor operator) for the US Navy, back in '91. Nuclear field was specified in my enlistment contract before signing, and reactor operator was contracted in writing for me in boot camp after further testing. As Balog stated, all guarantees are subject to successful completion of .mil training school(s) - in my case, ET (A) school, Naval Nuclear Power School, and Naval Nuclear Prototype training, a curriculum totalling approximately 2 years (thus requiring a 2-year contract extension for active duty which came out of the Individual Ready Reserve requirement - instead of 4yrs active/4yrs IRR, it was 6/2).
The .mil allows EVERYONE to put in for whatever they want. Needs of the service do come into play, but if you qualify for advanced training and technical service, you'll almost certainly find that the service needs you in that position rather than as an infantryman or cook. And if you don't get it in writing before signing, you deserve what you get.
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All information passed on to the kid.
Thanks guys!
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I'd tell 'em to go guard or reserves, one of the MOS areas that will help, and to wait until he gets the slot. While he's doing that, get a job in a tool & die or CNC machine shop.
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umm, whatever they called the non-grunt combat school right after boot camp. AIT maybe?.
MCT.
Major Consumption of Time/Tobacco.
:laugh:
Based on my ASVAB
Good point. Get him to take the ASVAB. The whole world opens up (or closes in) once thats under his belt.
I started thinking I wanted to blow *expletive deleted*it up. That is exacly what I said to my recruiter. Dad said "whoa...is there any bonuses right now?" Ended up in a career field that meant something, and was a major part of making sure the Marine Corps mission was fulfilled during my short enlistment.
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Good point. Get him to take the ASVAB. The whole world opens up (or closes in) once thats under his belt.
I started thinking I wanted to blow *expletive deleted* up. That is exacly what I said to my recruiter. Dad said "whoa...is there any bonuses right now?" Ended up in a career field that meant something, and was a major part of making sure the Marine Corps mission was fulfilled during my short enlistment.
Hmmm ...
I wanted to build things, so I enlisted in the Army for Combat Engineers. So they taught me to blow things up.
Then some brain trust realized I have defective color vision so they didn't trust me to connect two wires to the only two terminals on the box. So I was reassigned out of demolition and sent to do ... other things.
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I know you said Marines and Army but what about USN
Im asking because there is (or used to be) a rate of Gunners Mate (GM) that worked on small arms.
There are 2 subsets of this GMG (Gunners Mate Guns) and GMM (Gunners Mate Missles).
Just a thought....
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I know you said Marines and Army but what about USN
Im asking because there is (or used to be) a rate of Gunners Mate (GM) that worked on small arms.
There are 2 subsets of this GMG (Gunners Mate Guns) and GMM (Gunners Mate Missles).
Just a thought....
Same S* Different Silly hat. GMs(No longer split rate) do not work on weapons unless they are fortunate enough to be stationed at Crane NSWC. As with the other services there are two primary reasons that turned them into gun counters and cleaners across the fleet. One, there was too many incompetent maintainers. Two, you spread spare parts out all over the world and soon you have things walking out the door, complete back room built guns in some cases. So, you so much as break a spring in your M-9 and back in a box it goes to Crane for repair. Now there's a plan that will work just spiffy in a war.