Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: zxcvbob on February 02, 2013, 06:19:14 PM
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The MN House Public Safety Committee has introduced 7 ridiculous new gun control bills. I think they are mainly pandering to obama, who will be visiting the state next week. No idea what their chances are of getting out of committee for a floor vote.
H.F. 237: All transfers to be done by FFL's. All transfers reported to Police(line 7.8). Expands mental health loss of rights from court ordered commitment to just confinement.
H.F. 238: Felony to accidentally posses a firearm on school property. It's currently a misdemeanor for permit holders to unknowingly or mistakenly find themselves on school property. One should not lose firearms rights (felony) for a simple mistake.
H.F. 239: Gross misdemeanor to remain after being asked to leave. Second offense is a felony. Currently, it's a petty misdemeanor. As far as we know, NONE of these special tickets has ever been issued. This is an attempt to punish permit holders and raise the potential loss of firearms rights.
H.F. 240: Prove you're sane! The sheriff may require you to get a letter from a doctor or psychiatrist to get a carry or transferee purchase) permit
H.F. 241: Assault Weapons Ban. Look carefully at the definition. Your Garand is now an assault weapon (>7 rounds internal fixed magazine). After it takes effect, you have to move the weapon out of state, surrender it for destruction, render it inoperable, or register it.
H.F. 242: 10 round mag limit must alter mag, surrender it to police, or move it out of state.
H.F. 242: Loss or theft reports, transferring to ineligible person A person convicted of these crimes made ineligible to possess a firearm.
H.F. 243: 7 round mag limit; must surrender it for destruction, or move it out of state.
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As I told my son: *expletive deleted*ck 'em!
Perhaps I need to establish residence in South Dakota...
I've sent the requisite messages to the reps, of course, and received the "I support the Second Amendment. However..."
Bastages,
jb
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I've sent emails to my House rep and state senator, and thinking about sending one to Gov Dayton (is it my imagination, or does he seem stoned all the time?) Haven't heard anything back yet, but I just sent them a few hours ago.
I also send nastygrams last week to senators Klobuchar and Franken for cosponsoring the Feinstein bill. I knew Klobuchar would (it's just the sort of thing she loves) but I thought Franken was smart enough to at least wait until it came to the floor before he committed one way or the other. I told 'em that just for cosigning this bill, I will be campaigning for and supporting *whomever* (or whatever) the Republicans run against them even if the bill never makes it out of committee because they've shown their true colors.
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I've sent emails to my House rep and state senator, and thinking about sending one to Gov Dayton (is it my imagination, or does he seem stoned all the time?) Haven't heard anything back yet, but I just sent them a few hours ago.
Is this Mark Dayton? Back when I lived in MN, he ran for office and lost . . . as I recall, there was an issue that came up when someone revealed he was on prescription psycho meds, but outrage from the news media (He WAS a Democrat, after all) squelched this story like pretty quick.
So maybe he really is stoned.
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Not to veer the thread, but well...
I saw this Mark Dayton fellow is also pushing a "snowbird tax" right now, so he doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the shed.
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HF241 actually defines tube-fed .22 guns like Marlin 60 to be assault weapons.
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HF241 actually defines tube-fed .22 guns like Marlin 60 to be assault weapons.
It might as well be an "assault weapon". Its features are as arbitrary as any of those on an AR or other AW.
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HF241 actually defines tube-fed .22 guns like Marlin 60 to be assault weapons.
The more onerous the bill, the better. The more firearms, especially innocuous ones, it affects, the less chance it has.
On the other hand, if such an outlandish bill is just a prelude, to make a less onerous bill seem not as bad by comparison - let's hope no one takes the bait.
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I think it will come down to just how much "Farm" is still represented in the MN DLF.
If it's just a name, then it portends bad things for MN.
If there is still lots of "Farm" represented in the DLF, then it might be enough to avoid it. While they may want all sorts of Keynesian socialist policies for farms and rural areas, touching guns will still largely be a non-starter.
We will see.
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I think it will come down to just how much "Farm" is still represented in the MN DLF.
None.
Even when I lived there, it was known that DFL = Deviants, Flakes, and Leftists, their core constituency.
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Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance needs people at the Capitol tomorrow through Thursday for various hearings. Some details are on their Facebook page, and at www.mnccrn.org/news
http://www.facebook.com/notes/minnesota-gun-owners-civil-rights-alliance/fight-for-your-rights-at-the-capitol-next-tuewedthu/10151680573272542
There is also a rally planned for Friday.
Sorry for the late notice.
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What's DLF?
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What's DLF?
"DFL", misspelled.
Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance needs people at the Capitol tomorrow through Thursday for various hearings. Some details are on their Facebook page, and at www.mnccrn.org/news
Thanks, I'll see if I can make it Thursday evening.
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Democrat, Farm, and Labor. Because the normal Democratic party just isn't left enough for Minnesota.
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Democrat, Farm, and Labor. Because the normal Democratic party just isn't left enough for Minnesota.
National Socialist Minnesota Workers Party? [popcorn]
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Edited after I got home: Here is a YouTube video of today's hearing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1blSrn3MGNY&list=UUfR6kiQaeJLkxUyPaeouZTw&index=1
There were also two yesterday that I sadly missed. Also on that YouTube channel.
At the hearing, I am the guy sitting in the back left of the CCTV room.
Running commentary:
I will post the live feed when it starts, at about 10:30am.
http://www.livestream.com/uptakemnhouse might have it.
Lies, blood rolling, nonsense. Our team is ripping them a new one.
One of our reps just seriously called the antis on their nonsense. Received large applause.
Trying to define assault weapon, didn't end well for them.
Omg! Someone has hundreds of rounds of ammo!
We don't need high caps or rapid fire for hunting deer.
MMM gained 60k members since Sandy Hook.
Only one person is applauding the antis in the CCTV room.
Our side is having its turn regarding the AW bill.
Corrected the hunting with .223, various gun stats, large applause from the crowd.
1:26 into YouTube Video: An anti complained about being called unamerican.
Gun show and tell, AW vs wood stocked traditional rifle, both 10/22s.
Telescoping stock good for different sized shooters.
Bill would ban revolvers as assault weapons.
Chair is complaining about everyone's ignorance of guns including his own.
DPMS is testifying against the bill.
Large shooting range person spoke.
Father who's son was shot is testifying, his son was shot by a drunk with a Marlin 22. He and his son both own standard cap mags. Car and drunk driver analogy. Very large applause, we are asked to not applaud anymore.
Police officer is testifying. Pro modern sporting rifles and standard cap mags. Tells how we need lots of ammo for self defence.
1:50 into video: Doc Brown former Green Beret and others. School shooters had guns illegally. 2011 only three rifles used to murder, other item stats given. Video games blamed. Lots of video game info given talks about head shots. Talks about similarities between methods of school shooters and video games. Banning AW won't help.
1:54 into video: Tim is talking about a death threat his family received. Police could not help until more happened. No immediate threat. Wife asked if police would act after they were dead, police said yes. His wife told the police she was armed and because of that the police showed up to disarm her suggest she unload her guns to disarm herself. Edit: Sorry about that, I had to slowly type it on a smart phone after I heard it. Tim wants standard cap magazines for defence. More applause, naughty us.
MN gun rights group is testifying, speaker was quoted in the Heller case. AR15 is most common rifle. AW hard to define, all cosmetic. Calls the wooden 10/22 warm and comfy. One of his mini 14s has a black dress, one has a red dress one size too small. Arguing in favor of pistol grips. Says he must use telescopic stocks because of his shape. Calls it a safety feature. Treats AW in MN worse than feds treat MGs. Proof of confiscation in bill, proves old statements a lie.
End of hearing.
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Tim is talking about a death threat his family received. Police could not help until more happened. His wife told the police she was armed police showed up to disarm her. Tim wants standard cap magazines. More applause naughty us.
Dustin, can you provide more info re: this situation (when you are able)? rather curious about this....
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Several large edits after I got home:
Hopefully it was taped. 1:54 into the YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1blSrn3MGNY&list=UUfR6kiQaeJLkxUyPaeouZTw&index=1
It was a phone threat. The police didn't have enough for an arrest. They refused to send an officer. Tim's wife said she had loading her .308 deer rifle and that the police should announce themselves if they come over because she was ready to shoot anyone who tried to enter her house. The police then came to her house and said she should unload it for her safety. They didn't try to take her guns, sorry for the earlier confusion.
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Edit:The police said it was for her safety. I am not sure if they got her guns.
'Cause as everybody knows, a woman with a gun is just gonna shoot herself. :mad:
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Every anti gun rep walked out after their side spoke. GOCRA (Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance) and several Republican reps had some negative comments on the rudeness of that.
Several of the the anti gun reps had to have the legislation explained to them by both sides, it was supposed to be 20 mins each, but the antis took an hour. We received equal time but their games didn't help us.
I will look up info on that incident I mentioned.
It seems like the numbers were about 200 gun owners to a few anti gun people, I will see if I can find a better estimate. We may have even filled a third room, and there were people in the hallways. I barely got a seat in the first overflow room an hour and a half before it began.
Here we go, YouTube videos of the hearings: http://www.youtube.com/user/MNHouseInfo?feature=watch
Cancelled
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdustin.o-f.com%2F2ndamendmentrallycanceled.jpg&hash=dedb6d239bc37984218f81a86d3588daefb175b8)
Cancelled
Some people may still show up, but the official event is cancelled.
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I am watching, well listening to it. Oh they brought out the pictures of the children of Sandy Hook.
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I watched through some of it.
From your description, with the gunnies there they lost control of the story they were trying to spin. Which brings to mind what we've seen from the townhall meetings in upstate NY.
---edit to add---
And the gun banner organizational conclave up by Chicago.
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Yes, it didn't go to plan for them.
I am in line for the actual debate room today. They are planning on reserving 30 seats for the anti gun side because our side is the only one that showed up on time. Idoubt they even have 30 people to our 200? I will keep everyone updated.
I am the only guy wearing a white three button shirt that I have seen. 22nd in line.
They are playing games with room capacity to hide the huge difference in turn out.
Our opponents brought in a large number of school children. They can't have more than 40 due to the number of reserved seats they were given. I don't think they reached that number though. They should have had to show up and get in line.
If you see the video, the "for our children is getting very deep."
The kids just left.
Trying to require a permit for body armor.
Apparently several legislators wear body armor.
NFL players wear armor while playing football.
Many reps are pro body armor. Brought up a WW1 helmet issue collectable.
Few lies corrected, more people testified against the bill.
Our side is doing very well against the body armor bill.
I think the body armor bill is dead.
The bill could regulate leather jackets, ren fare gear like jousting.
We are done until 6:30.
Funny exchange at lunch:
Two guys are talking about gun control.
Guy's nongun friend, jokingly: So do you want to shoot me?
Gun rights guy: Only if you want to take my gun.
Guy's friend: Well if you didn't dress it up so much I wouldn't want it.
Who knows of a fun way to spend three hours at the MN DOT building while waiting for a hearing to start?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JdjRwC0JsE&list=UUfR6kiQaeJLkxUyPaeouZTw&index=1
Information about the standard cap bill: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H0242.0.html&session=ls88
I am starting another running commentary post dedicated to the 6:00PM magazine hearing. Apologies for the poor texting mobile posts.
I am the guy in the white three button shirt, third from the wall on my right, second row.
6 antis to about 170 pro gun persons in the main room.
It hasn't started yet but an iron range Democrat said he was against every anti gun bill. Loud applause. He said he could not stay for the hearing. He said it was not a right vs left issue.
The anti gun rabbi called an opponent a doush.
6:02 starting.
HF-307 would make unelected chiefs the people who handle permits for carry not elected sheriff's. The chiefs organisation is neutral on the issue. (Anti gun person's claim I am not sure if it is true)
Some cities would have to hire more staff.
The anti lady is for chiefs issuing, gambuchi so. Says they are more pro safety and we have more local control over them.
The pro gun guy is strongly against the bill. Talks of past abuses and threats by chiefs (which they did go through with) of stopping permits for political reasons by appointed chiefs.
Would go from 87 sheriff's to 600 chiefs.
Chiefs openly said in 1996 they would refuse to obey the law, and they did. This is part of why sheriffs handle permits now.
One rep says chiefs are more local, our guy professor Olson is debating that.
One pro gun rep noted that neither chiefs nor sheriff's care, and that this is coming from elsewhere.
This should be streamed live from somewhere, but I can't find it now. YouTube will have it soon.
Moving on to the mag limit bill. HR242
There will be many people testifying.
Heather leader of an anti group is going first. She had a picture of a tactical guy with a beta c mag AR-15.
Says mass shootings are on the rise. She comes from a hunting family.
Each side gets 30 minutes. Then the public goes.
Big lie: no civilian has ever needed more than six rounds. The guy she is speaking for who didn't show up is really laying it on thick.
Said police don't need more than 5 rounds.
Someone spoke of a mass shooting that used two 15 round magazines.
Reading Scalia's comments on Heller.
6:58) Some one who owns six guns doesn't like the NRA and Its tone with the politics, and how militant it is, and the focus on self defence, and misses the 70s gun safety. Thinks most gun owners are anti gun.
Tom Goldstein: movie shooting, said a friend died in a shooting.
Says that registration does not lead to confiscation (which is ironic because this bill would confiscate magazines.)
7:08 anti gun side done. Puts up sandy hook victim photos. Says this state is the only one where anything is happening. (Obvious lie re NY.)
A rep is ripping them a new one. Asking if cops want to give up high caps, answer no. Chiefs of Police organisation is not anti AR-15 or standard cap mags.
This phone and auto correct is kicking my rear.
The fact correction by rep phase of this hearing is just awesome. The anti gun side's few arguments are being cut up.
A rep commented on how the bills author was not present. And on how so many "clips" are out there.
Female rep asks about cost to comply, brings up poor people. Anti person says mags are cheap to buy or modify. Much laughter from the audience.
7:22 some citizens who testified for the bill left the room.
NRA guy speaks. Nice guy BTW, I talked to him between hearings. He does well.
Shooting sport guy spoke. Said they need standard cap mags.
Sheriff deputy spoke, says he needs high caps, carries 3, 13 round mags on job despite backup. Needs his AR-15. Said converting to 10 round mags would be expensive and that normal people need standard cap mags.
Another gun guy up, says effectiveness of gun laws is impossible.
Professor Olson is up: referring to an analysis
I just noticed that channel 11 left the room.
Olson talks about asset forfeiture. Mentions what anti gun lady said.
Mentions a shooting, 5 hits bad guy lived. Says Heller protects magazines. Police need and use high cap and AR-15.
7:49) Now it is the public's turn to comment.
One military guy says high caps needed for fights, but mass shootings take minutes.
7:58) guy says this bill (auto correct keeps trying top say bull) would never survive court challenge.
8:07) the other media camera guy left.
Various sport shooters are speaking.
8:10) Virginia Tech had 13, 10 round mags and lots of time. Bad guys pick their encounter, good guys can't carry 13 mags.
8:22) a lady gave a great speech.
8:24) some guy I is talking about an invasion of Alaska. Not making us look good.
8:29) anti gun lady is leaving, as are the rest of the antis
8:36PM / 2:34 YouTube Video) Awesome speech about high capacity gangs and how funny this bill is when you replace the word "magazine" with "gang member." Worth a watch.
8:52) I am very tempted to mention 3d printers.
9:31) Never mind I won't have time.
I didn't have time to blog and write a speech at the same time. So I failed to mention a few good ones.
I will think this through and likely let someone from MN GOCRA present it.
The anti gun lady came back around 9:00PM.
9:45 an anti gun lady is speaking. Nothing specific, wants them to basically "do something." Says non gun owners are the majority.
9:50 a lady did a great job, called out the anti gun lady's use of victims photo.
9:51 another good job by an older gentlemen.
Phone battery almost dead.
10:03 last speaker.
10:05 Few legislators spoke, will make some fixes when I get home. And correct and add names tomorrow.
We were the second biggest group in memory, and were thanked for our politeness by the anti gun reps.
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Note: The official rally for Friday the 8th is cancelled. Some people are still planning on showing up but the main event is cancelled.
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Note: The official rally for Friday the 8th is cancelled. Some people are still planning on showing up but the main event is cancelled.
How come?
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The radio station (or whomever was running it) didn't manage it well, and MN GOCRA had three days of hearings tue-thu so they weren't really able to put on a worth while show with lots of speakers and appearances by legislators and the like. It is also pretty redundant with the huge turnout for the hearings. Three days certainly got our point across.
I won't be going as I would have to get up in under four hours to really make it there on time.
I hope the media doesn't pick up on the event unless the turnout is huge.
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Thanks, Dustin. All very interesting.
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So, bets on if they pass the crap anyway?
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Things are looking pretty good for us. The seven round mag bans are dead, the body armor bill is dead. Not sure about the rest, but I doubt they have the votes or the will to fight to push anything else through.
For what little it is worth we seriously embarrassed them in the hearings. Many bill sponsors didn't even bother to show up or stay after their side spoke.
MN GOCRA spokesperson Rob Doar is concerned about the omnibus gun control bill and what could possibly be added to it.
On another note: Many of the 200 kids that were bused in for a half hour of the debate on a bill that both sides agreed on had "no guns" signs. They were seriously being exploited.
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Senate hearings Thursday and Friday.
www.gocra-mn.org/news (http://www.gocra-mn.org/news) and https://www.facebook.com/gocra
It looks like we defeated the body armor, magazine, and "assault weapon" bills, but the mandatory registration bill is up for debate in the Senate on Thursday Feb 21st (today) at noon.
Also up for debate:
SF 69 (Ingebrigtsen) / HF 178 (Cornish) Retired police, with current training, do not need a permit to carry. Thursday, noon.
HF 285 (Lesch) / SF 235 (Latz) Fifth degree assault and domestic assault provisions added to crime of violence, ban on felon in possession of ammunition, aiding and abetting. - BAD , but possible fixable Thursday, noon.
HF 240 – (Schoen) / SF 557 (Cohen) “Prove you’re sane” Friday, noon.
Thursday, February 21 6 p.m.
Public testimony on SF 235, 503, 69, 458, 557, 520, 400, 413 and 568
Friday, February 22 Noon
SF 503, 557, 520, 400, 413, 568
You can read complete bill summaries at the GOCRA web site: http://www.gocra.org/news/reference/2013-firearms-bills/
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http://www.senate.mn/media/flashvideo.php there se likely other sites too.
So begins another epic commentary post. There should be video of the hearing somewhere.
We have about twenty people in line right now 9:44.
10:10 media showed up. Kare 11.
10:20 Eyewitness 5 is here.
10:30 interviewing people.
10:50 anti gun side showed up.
12:10 I am seated, 2nd row, gray three button shirt.
20 mins each side, strict. Plus 10 mins public comment.
The anti side had seats reserved which is against the policy written on the senate website. There is about twenty of them, and a few hundred of us. We had to be in line almost three hours early to get seats.
The mental health people also were given 10 minutes. I liked what they had to say.
Senate Bill 69 was withdrawn for now. It won't be heard today.
12:35 anti gun side is up. Talking about legislative power to enact "reasonable" gun regs per Heller decision.
"Need to stop the flow of blood."
1:00 pro gun PhD const scholar is speaking.
Each side now has 30 mins because bill 69 was withdrawn.
1:05 domestic abuse bill author is speaking. Wants to stop juveniles from carrying guns.
1:18 pro gun side is up. Olson is going first. Says they worked out a deal with the sponsor, and have no objections to the bill at this time.
1:21 bill 235 is layed over.
1:22 senator champion is up for bill 458.
1:34 Dennis from a police group is up. Referring to mental health issues. Gunshow loop hole is huge %40 of sales.
Brooklyn PD Mark Sargent does background checks. Talks of suicides with guns.
1:42 Mayor of Minneapolis is speaking. Referring to private sales and a few incidents.
Rogers police officer speaking of crazy people and suicides.
Each side now has an additional five minutes.
1:56 The guy who's father died in a shooting is speaking.
2:03 35 mins for the pro gun side. The NRA guy is up. Says a past eating disorder could prevent people from owning guns. Same for PTSD. NRA guy says 91% oppose background checks. He has poll data. Cutting anti gun arguments to shreds. Went after %40 private sale, and NICs effectiveness. NRA guy seriously kicked ass.
2:14 crucible arms guy is up. Going after the %40 lie. He is a ffl, talking about nics now.
2:20 DNR instructor guy is up, said he can't loan guns anymore if this passes.
2:24 ptsd guy is up. Says the law would force him to surrender his firearms.
2:29 prof Olson is back. Says MN gocra can't afford to fly in victims who are pro gun.
2:34 Andrew Rothman is up. Is seriously going after Minneapolis for its crime rate, calling out the legislature on the last several decades.
2:37 someone else is up. Only two mins left. Talking about NICs at gunshow. NRA stats, Obama quote, against background checks.
Our side did very well, but we were pressed for time.
2:39 10 mins public comments. Pro gun guy is up.
2:42 anti gun lady is up her daughter was raped and murdered. If it prevents only one death...
Colmen had an outburst regarding some talking during the last lady.
2:46 anti gun guy is up. Son murdered. Talking about Minneapolis crime and the quality of people here. He thinks most in Minneapolis are good people.
2:49 anti gun guy is up. Talking about Sandy Hook. Wants something done.
2:50 pro gun guy talking about the previous lady's daughter. Says men not guns did it.
2:52 Question section.
Colm doesn't understand fear of registration. Talking about inconvenience vs lives.
The chairman asked the progun prof if he thought it was a good idea to require ccw permits to buy guns. The progun prof thought that was an interesting idea.
The anti gun Prof didn't know the gun show loop hole is a myth a police officer is explaining it to him.
I lost my connection in there. We are recessed until 6:00 pm. Our side definitely won.
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The anti side had seats reserved which is against the policy written on the senate website. There is about twenty of them, and a few hundred of us. We had to be in line almost three hours early to get seats.
Ya know... I would be making some serious stink about this... "Favoritism," "discrimination," and "bias" are all words that I would be using... :) Find out if there is a formal complaint process and who to complain to/about... But then again, I'm evil that way... >:D
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Our side definitely won.
What I worry about, here and everywhere, is that they'll just up and do what they want anyway.
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What I worry about, here and everywhere, is that they'll just up and do what they want anyway.
Like ignore a Federal court?
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/02/20/court-fight-could-hold-up-concealed-carry-in-illinois/
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6:00 We are now seated for the public commentary phase. This is scheduled to last until 9:00. I was second in line to get in.
6:12 We are starting.
6:18. First anti gun person is going. Doesn't like the new NRA. Post 77 revolt. Owns six guns the inherited.
We will have groups of three from each side go then switch.
6:23. Lady said there is a gun show loophole. And that people can buy guns there after stating they can't passa background check.
6:26 progun lady told a story of some one, two time convicted sex offender that tried to abduct her daughter. He didn't stop until she pulled her gun. Then told a story a patient of hers told her of her husband being killed in Nazi Germany after giving up their guns.
Someone said "amen" during her testimony and was removed. This guy had previously embarrassed himself on Thursday's house hearing.
The Oakdale gun club's lobbyist gave his time to the previous lady.
6:36. Antis up again, lady who's daughter that was kidnapped and raped was up. Another think of the children anti was up. Heather Martin is up talking about Nazi germanies gun laws.
7:01. Things are going well, well experienced people are making good arguments.
7:20 lady senator compares fishing licenses to gun transfer fees. Says fishing polls are safer. Her stupidity was legendary.
7:24. Guy says society is more violent and crime is up. Others on their side have said the same thing.
7:30. The last anti gun person spoke. She didn't like how many guns were sold privately on arms list.
7:51. We are doing very well, only a few mediocre or bad speeches with several good ones.
8:00. All of the presigned up people have spoken. This will likely be over soon.
8:11. Some one is dragging liberals and religion into this, not a good way to end things.
8:19. Several good speakers have gone.
8:29. We are done for tonight.
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Like ignore a Federal court?
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/02/20/court-fight-could-hold-up-concealed-carry-in-illinois/
I watched that hearing on and off. Todd, Valinda and Rep. Phelps did good. (NRA Lobbyist, Illinoiscarry spokesperson, guy who introduced the good carry bill).
http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=5957 (http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=5957)
Illinois House Democrats have a come to Jesus moment on guns yesterday
Gun control supporters in the Illinois Democratic party talked a pretty good game for the most part at the Illinois House Judiciary hearing earlier this week on guns, but in a closed door meeting yesterday, they were set straight as to the reality of things.
Here’s what was said publicly Tuesday, as reported by Rich Miller’s Capitol Fax:
Prosecutors in Chicago are telling state lawmakers they can essentially ignore a federal court ruling and not legalize concealed carry in Illinois.
The Illinois House on Tuesday held the first of two statewide hearings on how to legally allow people to carry a gun in the state. Illinois is the only state in the nation that bars anyone from carrying a pistol outside their home. In December, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said Illinois must change that.
But Paul Castiglione, policy director for the Cook County State’s Attorney’s office, told lawmakers there is no need for a new law.
“Only the Illinois Supreme Court can declare a statue from (the legislature) unconstitutional,” Castiglione told lawmakers Tuesday. “I heard (someone) say that after 180 days our UUW (unlawful use of weapon) statute is unconstitutional. Not so.”
Illinois Issues Blog went on to report Alvarez’s office vowing to ignore the Federal Appellate Court order:
“After 180 days, anyone who decided, for example, to walk down Michigan Avenue in Chicago carrying an AK-15 would be subject to arrest and prosecution for violating the [Unlawful Use of Weapons Act,]” said Cook County Assistant State’s Attorney Paul Castiglione. He said the Cook County state’s attorney’s office intends to enforce the Illinois Unlawful Use of Weapons statute, which outlaws carrying guns in public, after the deadline, unless lawmakers change it or the Illinois Supreme Court finds it unconstitutional. “The lower federal courts, either the district courts or the courts of appeal, cannot tell the Illinois Supreme court how to rule or whether or not that law is constitutional. The only court that can resolve that split is the U.S. Supreme Court.”
Of course, Chicago is a place for unicorns, mermaids and make-believe.
House Democrats were given a lesson in the real-world consequences of ignoring the Seventh Circuit ruling when the 180-day stay expires on June 8th.
The technical review staff (legal beagles) told the Democrats that Alvarez was all wet in her office’s pronouncement and that inaction on passing a carry bill would have dire consequences for gun control in Illinois.
Specifically, House Democrats were told that Illinois would effectively have “Constitutional Carry” where anyone who was eligible to own guns could carry them freely in public without training, licensing, qualification and precious little in the way of restriction.
After a lot of back and forth, one Chicago Representative asked if someone could carry a loaded rifle into the Statehouse. He was told “Yes”.
It was reported that you could hear a pin drop for an uncomfortably long time after that as a stunned silence came over the room.
The bottom line is that non-ideologues on the gun issue have seen the wisdom of voting for a carry bill that affords the state at least some control in the time, place and manner in which Illinois residents, and indeed non-residents, can carry firearms in Illinois.
Of course, there are a handful of die-hards who will never vote for a bill that would allow Illinoisans any firearm rights. But then again, there were no shortage of politicians who opposed Civil Rights legislation of fifty years ago to their dying day. And there were no shortage of politicians who opposed women’s suffrage, either.
Today, we recognize how foolish and bigoted those politicians were in opposing these basic civil rights.
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http://www.senate.mn/media/flashvideo.php live video feed.
http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/media/index.php?ls=&sid=746 Video of the various senate hearings.
10:06 I am back at it again.
I was shown on Kare 11 this morning. I promise not to forget all you little people now that I am famous :)
12:33. Finally seated over a half hour late. There were serious shenanigans with regards to how many seats the other side received without them having to wait in line.
12:37 session is in order. 37 minutes late.
12:45. Anti gun ATF agent, also swat, did something in the ATF that targeted 15 key states for gun enforcement and other things. He wants background checks. "private sale loophole for handguns" also gunshow loophole mentioned. He is from out of state. Mayors against illegal guns paid him to be here.
12:56. Q&A with ATF guy. He is being called out on ATF not responding to various gun laws and NICS checks. He seems to be failing the Q&A.
1:01. "Assault shotgun with 15 rounds" "I could have been given a hammer to do my job, but I was given a gun because it is the most lethal".
1:04 NRA guy is up. Ripping the last guys lies apart.
1:07 Prof Olson is up. Really giving it to the ATF guy. This is worth watching the videos.
1:18 Q&A with the prof.
1:24 Moving on to bill 503 straw purchases, sponsored by the chair.
1:28 Funny exchange between chair and speaker who are related. Speaker is now talking about a shooting.
1:34 Another lady is up. Her son died in a shooting. She Works with victims and predators families. Says guns are extremely easy to get in north Minneapolis.
1:40 Another lady is up. Her son died. Says guns are very easy to get in her community. If she had a gun and another had one, she says some one may die.
1:43 Another lady is up, her sister died. Works with victims.
1:45 Prof Olson is up. Wants to support the bill, needs small changes. The words "knowing or reason to believe" should just be "knowing" and the life time ban.
Public testimony:
1:53 Another lady up, came out of retirement to fight against gun violence.
1:56. A guy is up talking about murder stats. He is pro gun.
2:00 anti gun guy, his father had a negligent discharge. No one hurt.
2:03 Pro gun guy, notes that gun owners are more law abiding than police. Slipped fast and furious into the talk. Auto correct tried to say "Puerto fun guy"
2:06 Q&A no questions.
2:07 SF520. Voluntary registry of ineligible gun owners.
2:13 NAMI is up, they offer pill lockboxes, and gun locks. They claim it helps prevent suicide.
2:18 Q&A humidity in storage was brought up.
2:22 NRA is up. Wants a way for people to opt out at a later date. Concerned about mission creep.
2:24 Olson is up talking about retention schedule.
2:27 Q&A. Mentioned background checks. Doesn't sound voluntary any more. NRA guy is talking about NICS checks by sheriffs.
2:33 Public commentary.
2:52 Gun owner protection bill not taken up as the senator was not present.
2:53 Bill concerning getting guns back after having served time for a felony. They are trying to make that harder. Lady mentioned judge shopping.
2:59 a motion passed.
3:00 Someone testifying wants good cause standard clarified.
3:02 wants jurisdiction clarified.
3:04 Q&A
3:07 Public commentary, prof Olson is up. He is giving the history of these laws in Minnesota. Olson is against the bill.
3:15 The lady who supports the bill is accusing us of wanting bad guys to have guns.
3:17 public commentary.
3:28 Bill was laid over for possible inclusion.
SB568. Cohen is presenting his bill. Restoration of rights.
3:35 Heather Martin is testifying says deaths are down because of better trauma care. She said Minnesota supports stronger gun laws.
3:44 Andrew Rothman is testifying. Says bill would take away rights by preponderance of evidence. Andrew made a comment to the chairman. Chairman said one more comment like that and it would conclude his testimony.
3:49 Chair asked Andrew a question about legal case law and if carrying is a recognised civil right. Andrew said it was and cited a court case.
3:51 Olson is up. He did well.
Andrew went next.
4:00 Another person went pointed out that Martin Luther King was denied a permit. Said this bill would allow the same discretion.
4:03 Public commentary. A person did very well.
4:08 Heather Martin still didn't know which bill was under discussion.
4:11 Former police officer had a permit under all three systems. From the 70's onward. Didn't like the arbitrariness of the old system.
4:12 lady doesn't like guns, mentions Sandy Hook. Gun show loophole...
4:20 lady senator is saying gov doesn't have the right to decide who had rights without full due process.
4:22 Chairman asked how permits are different for guns vs anything else. A good discussion followed.
4:27 SB557 is up.
Cohen discussed his bill
Heather Martin spoke.
4:36 anti gun prof is up.
4:47 Olson is up.
5:07 end of SB557. We are adjourned for today.
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http://www.gocra-mn.org/news/category/news
or
https://www.facebook.com/notes/minnesota-gun-owners-civil-rights-alliance/come-to-the-senate-hearing-tonight-good-bill-bad-bill/10151786214737542
Another Senate hearing scheduled for Thursday at 6:00PM, room 15, first floor of the capitol. I hope to be there around 4:00PM to get a good seat.
We have two bills, one that goes after the law abiding, and one that does not. The good bill has 78 co-sponsors in the house, or 58.2% of the votes automatically.
I think we will win this in the end, but I am not sure how the Senate will eventually vote.
Update: I won't be able to make this hearing, but there should be another on Tuesday for some House bills.
--- From Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance ---
Senator Latz's Gun Owners Punishment Bill, SF458, passes with a party-line vote of 5-3.
Attorney, civil rights absolutist and GOCRA board member David Gross just TORE APART the unconstitutional infringements in Senator Latz's SF458.
Senator Julianne Ortman is scolding Senator Latz for the "hostile takeover" of her bill, and for refusing to allow a vote on her wildly popular SF1359.
Go, Julianne, go!
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Tomorrow is an important day. We may win this whole gun control thing in this committee vote. I think the pro gun committee members outnumber the antis 2-1.
From MNGOCRA: (http://www.gocra-mn.org/news/category/news/)
Tomorrow (Tuesday, March 19) at 10 a.m., the House Public Safety Committee will hear and vote of HF237, Rep, Paymar's Punish Gun Owners Act.
I hope to be there.
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8:46. I'm here. The antis actually showed up on time. They have us outnumbered at the moment.
This is the first time thhasey showed up to wait in line. I am guessing because there won't be public testimony they won't get any free tickets.
9:18. The lines are about equal length.
9:20. A debate has broken out between the two lines. This will be fun. One gut on the other side was singing out the word "paranoia". Another lady said we were just helping criminals.
9:25. Debate ended, didn't go too well. Or side did a little better and was a bit nicer.
9:36. Our line is longer, but this is their best turnout ever. Double the previous hearings. Our turnout is the worst it has ever been.
9:57. We are seating. I am in the second row. Three spots from the isle on the right side of the room. Surrounded by antis.
10:03. Hearing started. Every committee member seems to be here.
10:05. Looks like this may be a two parter. We may have a recess until 7:00 pm.
10:13. 237 bad bill is up. This will go until 11:30. And be recessed until 7:00pm. The bill may also be amended. It should be voted on at 7:00. There may be some public testimony.
The media was here but left.
10:17. Paymer is talking about his bill.
10:20. Not bad so far. He says his bill is only one part of the solution. Mentioned many relevant issues.
10:21. Starting with the be. Anti gun lady to my right isn't happy with the lack of bans. He is talking about background checks. Plenty of lies and bs.
10:23 says everyone supports his bill. Obvious lie considering the huge number of sponsors for the rival bill and the few for his.
10:30. Rep Cornish is up. Doubts it will make it out of committee. 3% of guns for crimes comes from gun shows. Says polls can say anything.
10:34. "Heaven help the man who tries to take my gun."
A few more strong statements against this bill. Acousing paymer of strong arming his side. Hopes there won't be any shenanigans.
10:37. Paymer is taking about gun show loophole loophole. Says he would never lie. Said he went to a gun show. Said he tried to buy without a permit to purchase at a gun show. Licensed dealers required it, private parties did not. He thinks that is a loophole.
10:53. Police Chief association guy is up. Wants background checks. Straw purchases.
11:01. Rep Cornish said Sheriff's association and a few other police groups are not here.
11:02. 15 mins for each side to speak.
11:07 anti gun side is up. Many church groups are speaking. Also two mothers.
11:09. More anti gun inner city church groups.
11:10 Rep Cornish is up "Sell your cloak and buy a sword". Lots of talking and noise from the anti gun side. One lady said Cornish was certifiable.
11:13. Move on.org is up. 2700 background checks. Reading from petition comments.
Each side gained five minutes.
11:16. Leage of women voters is up.
11:18. Firearm instructor is up. Hunted since 1971.
23 mins for the pro gun side.
11:19. NRA guy is up. Says there is bullying and an attempt to water down the bill to keep it going. Says the recess until 7:00pm is for bullying.
DFL guy is asking NRA guy who is bullying who. NRA guy said he wasn't at liberty to disclose it.
11:22. Mngocra guy is up. Said many do not live close to a ffl
11:24 yielded remaining time to the public. An angry lady said they were violating their oath of office. Mentioned abortion killing more than guns.
11:27. Someone is talking about mental health and what this bill requires. He had PTSD voluntary treatment and isn't sure if he would have to surrender his guns if this passes.
11:30 Recessed until 7:00pm
A theory is that this is so a pro gun rep will be forced to deal with another issue at 7:00 and break the tie.(update: that didn't happen) I am surprised so many want this to leave committee. I am looking forward to see what edits are done to it.
3:30 Back in line. I am the first. I was hanging out in the DOT cafeteria for a while.
4:50. Five of us are in line, all pro gun.
5:10. Twenty of us are here, all pro gun.
5:45. Over fifty of us here. There might be three anti gun persons.
Note: We later filled the room with about 125 people.
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Committee will vote on omnibus anti gun HF237 at 7:00pm.
6:30 We are seated. I am in the second row, right side, second from the center.
We may win the whole game with this vote. I am guessing a watered down bill will pass.
6:45. There are about five antis to a whole room of pro gun people.
7:04. Less than half the reps are present. There are less than ten antis.
7:45. The antis are MIA. We are talking about sending out search parties. If this doesn't pass by Friday we win. There is some serious behind the scenes arm twisting going on.
8:00pm 8:15 will be the start time. My prediction: The bill gets watered down and moves out of committee. They won't vote unless they know they can win.
8:14. Starting, Paymar apologised for the delay, laid the bill over, meeting adjourned.
Statements from our side said this bill is dead. (update, confirmed by a few reps) They will bring a prosecutor's bill forward which is smaller and doesn't contain anything that this one doesn't.
That bill must go forward before Friday because it is a policy bill. Friday is the deadline, anything that doesn't make it out is dead.
Update from 12:14am after I got home. The bill that will likely move out of committee will require background checks for private sales at gun shows and be a very watered down version of HF237. It will likely be voted on a Thursday, Friday is the deadline for any bill to leave this committee.
Debra Hilstrom rep.debra.hilstrom@house.mn was the swing voter that caused HF237 to die in committee, and she will determine tomorrow what exactly will be in the new bill when she compromises with Chairman Paymar. On one hand I want as pro freedom of an anti gun bill as we can get, on the other hand the better the bill is the harder it will be to stop. The ideal anti gun bill would confiscate every firearm including the most PC single shot .410 ever made.
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Just so you know, we're reading these by-the-minute updates and appreciate them.
After NY, and CO, we need a "win" on the state level.
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Thank you, I am glad people are reading it.
Last Thursday's hearing was a real doozy. Senate Chair Latz told people they were not allowed to nod or shake their heads while listening to others speak. He threatened to remove people from the room after a single warning. A few Senators called him on that bit of unprecedented asshatery.
He put the anti gun bill SF458 that he wrote up for a vote and it passed with a 5-3 party line vote. Then he refused to allow the committee to vote on the significantly more popular pro gun bill SF1359. 4 vs 22 co-authors out of 67 senators total.
In the house we are at 78 vs 8 co-authors out of 134 total. Not bad having 58% of the reps strongly supporting the pro gun bill. www.gocra-mn.org/news (http://www.gocra-mn.org/news/category/news/page/2/) for more information.
Sen. Ron Latz's companion to the Paymar bill, SF458, faces an uncertain future in the Senate Rules Committee, which is not stacked with gun controllers like Sen. Latz's Judiciary Committee.
I started off worried about "assault weapon" bans, immediate magazine confiscation with 7 round limits there after, body armor* needing carry permits to buy, full gun registration, moving us to a worse may issue bill than we had before the 2003 shall issue bill passed. Now they are trying for just gun show background checks, and some misc stupid stuff. They likely won't even get that.
*By "body armor" it meant things that could protect any part of your body such as heavy leather welding gear, ren-fair stuff, motorcycle and off road gear, anything that contains kevlar or similar, basically any safety gear at all, and any historical items that could possibly slow down a bullet. I knew that it would need some amendments if it was to pass, but it went down in a slightly entertaining conversation in its hearing were a rep felt the need to point out to the audience that the bills sponsor was new this year and this was his first bill.
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Just so you know, we're reading these by-the-minute updates and appreciate them.
After NY, and CO, we need a "win" on the state level.
This. And keep up the good fight.
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5:22pm The Senate omnibus anti-gun bill might die at 6:00PM central time today, 38 minutes from now. I think it will be heard in a committee meeting.
5:33pm update: SF458 Removed from agenda. It has to get out of committee by Friday or we win. Word has it that we won. I am looking for more info.
6:15pm SF458 dead, its house companion is dead too.
HF285 Will be heard Thursday evening in the Public Safety Committee. This will likely be amended to include some level of background checks. There is a chance that it will only require private sellers at gun shows to check to make sure the receiver has a (free from the police) permit to purchase or a carry permit. MN currently requires the free permit to buy pistols or "assault weapons." It is valid for a year, and takes a maximum of five days to be issued. This doesn't involve any form of registration. I believe you only currently need it for buying from FFLs, but I am not sure.
I will also be handing out free maroon MNGOCRA t-shirts, suggested donation $10 payable at the website (https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=ucLUFCKYue_ud5xnnT3yAwBc1cKNT3OVzwDJEQLVGmkvL6OBWSL9jXSnNDG&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f8e263663d3faee8d5348ead9d61c709ee8c979deef3ea735), and $1 buttons. Their facebook (https://www.facebook.com/gocra?filter=3) page has pictures of what the buttons and shirts look like.
I will let you guys know when I get confirmation of the hearings and fates of the bills.
5:36pm Looks like we beat the senate omnibus anti-gun bill. It was more of a threat than the house companion bill because of the pro/anti gun make-up of the senate. They may push forward with a watered down bill by means of modifying a bill concerning prosecuting criminals (I think felon in possession) for possessing ammo, or some similar bill.
6:15pm SF235/HF285 are the remaining two bills. Both will likely make it to the floor for a vote, and have some level of BCs added.
update: SF235 made it to the floor last Thursday. So it just needs its amendments and a vote. It and the house bill each have 3 sponsors.
--- Thursday ---
9:50am House chair Paymar still hasn't announced the time for the likely 6 or 7 pm hearing. Both he and his Senate counterpart Latz have shown some serious character and integrity issues after getting their bills moving became a little difficult. We expect minor shenanigans for today's hearing. They really love screwing with schedules, seating, withholding information, or withholding it from the public and the pro-gun GOCRA, but telling the anti gun side (Protect Minnesota). I seriously better not find out the hearing schedule from Protect Minnesota again.
11:45am Rep Cornish, Republican committee minority lead and the most pro gun house rep we have said it will be at 5:30PM, and that Paymar (anti-gun Chairman) will not allow public testimony, this is likely against the rules.
Note to MN GOCRA members: If you sign up to their email feed which gives you information depending on what district you live in, you will be entered into a drawing for a Remington 1911.
2:45pm. I am the first one here.
3:45. Four of us so far. No antis yet.
4:10pm. Confirmed 5:30 start time.
4:40. 20 pro gun to 6 anti gun. The amendments to the bill have been posted. The chairman intentionally withheld the amendments to the last minute.
4:47. Roughly 30 to 10
5:05. About 50 to 12
5:30 75 to 20 pro / anti
5:34. Hearing starting, time for a new post.
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Thursday evening hearing. There are a few sources for feeds, same as previous hearings.
5:35 Anti fun (not going to fix that auto correct) Rep John Lesch reading amendment to 285.
5:39 Gun show private sellers must see buyer's permit to purchase or carry for gun sales. Really not a bad change.
5:41 Felons that can't own guns in possession of ammo will be a crime.
5:46 Cornish Republican lead promised a lengthy debate on the bill when it gets to the floor.
5:47 The amendment passed 10-8.
5:49 Roll call on bill 285.
5:51 Passed to the floor 10-8. We are adjourned.
The NRA rep says that either this bull (there goes auto correct again) will be amended to be a copy of the pro gun bill, or it won't pass, either way we win.
We are up to 80 sponsors of the pro gun bill in the house, 60% of the reps.
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I don't have much to report, but it has been over a month.
Anti gun Senator and bill author Latz says he will push for a vote on his anti gun bill. The bill basically does nothing except require sellers to check a buyer's permit to purchase or permit to carry if they sell a pistol or "assault weapon" at a gun show.
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2013/04/19/politics/minnesota-gun-control-legislation doesn't really add anything to what I am telling you, usual fluff.
"I don't think there's a snowball's chance in Hades that anything in background checks or anything else is going to pass in the Senate or the House," Cornish said. He is the lead pro gun Rep.
Per the linked article "The House and Senate gun bills are expected to start moving again in a few weeks after legislators vote on the budget." I expect us to win by a large margin, they won't even get the gun show checks. My how they have fallen, given that they wanted us to turn in any 8 round mags or sell them, among many other things like body armor and AW bans. It looks like they want to restrict gun powder sales and the like. They will likely try, and fail, for that amendment.
Also, not sure how many will be going, but to pass this along, from TCGunsAndCarryForum's Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/tcGunsAndCarry?ref=stream&hc_location=stream)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/74204_424327220996993_1170817761_n.jpg)
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We Won!
Gun control dead for the year!
www.mnccrn.org/news (http://www.mnccrn.org/news/)
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Awesome.
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The "ban" wagon is rolling again. There is a policy discussion currently in progress regarding the ability to carry weapons into the state Capitol complex. Sorry that I forgot to post this when I heard about it on Monday.
The room has maybe forty pro gun rights supporters, and no anti gun people that I can see. update, there were at least three anti gun persons, non of them wearing any anti gun clothing.
Two camera crews are present and were doing interviews.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqRpb7bBi1w Video of the hearing.
This was all originally done on a smart phone, sorry for the poor quality of editing. Also note that I likely made a few minor mistakes in transcribing details.
11:03 meeting started.
11:30 Talking about gun stuff now. Defining and nitpicking terms and language.
11:50 A lot of boring talk about what other states do. Some want security at the door, others don't. Now we are onto the actual issue.
Not allowed to bring long guns into the capitol currently. Not sure if that is true, but that is what the committee members said.
11:55 Lady asking stupid questions, she isn't aware that permits require training in this state.
She thinks it's bad that people can carry guns in the audience during heated debates. "They just might lose it".
11:58 Another lady disagrees with the first lady. I will look for the video when I get home. This debate is getting good.
12:00 State trooper said everyone he checked was compliant with the law.
12:02 Paymar (anti gun rep and committee chair) wants to know what his powers are, doesn't want to make any strong recommendations to the legislature. Seems to be acting less anti gun that a few months ago. Edit: he isn't the chair of this committee. He was chair of previous house committees.
12:05 Seems like our side is winning.
"That lady" is saying us pro gun people can send death threats. Other lady is rebutting her, says gun owners are the best behaved of any group that visits the capitol. Anti gun lady claims to have received death threats from gun owners. Other reps seem sceptical.
12:10 Debate over whether there will be public testimony. Paymar doesn't want public comment, the lady chair does. Paymar doesn't want guns in the capitol, says he can't find common ground with gun supporters.
12:17 Minnesotans want public open process. Paymar wants this gun issue handled quietly.
12:19 There will be a second meeting. Likely postponed past the 20th.
12:22 I may be a TV star. Back right corner by the door.
Public testimony soon.
12:23 Public testimony. Person mentioned gun free zones won't work without airport level security.
12:24 Lady said she was intimidated by gun owners and asked for more security at the winter meetings. This claim is absolute BS. Even by gun owners standards we were perfect in our behaviour.
12:27 Pro gun lady wants the ability to carry or a lot better security for normal people. She said only she was responsible for her security.
12:29 Pro gun person called the previous anti gun lady wrong brought up conversations with Sgt at Arms who said our side behaved overwhelmingly great. Sgt at arms agreed, they are present at the hearing to testify because they do a lot of the security work.
12:31 Anti gun guy who shouted down our side back in the previous hearings and kept making an ass out of himself said he was intimidated by us. He wasn't too intimidated back then to harass some people's kids.
12:33 Meeting adjourned.
I will keep you guys updated on the next hearing.
Tuesday, August 20, 2013 Note that this may change before Tuesday gets here, to be pushed back to give a few people more time to prepare.
Meeting starts at 10:00 a.m.; please arrive by 9:00 for best seating!
Advisory Committee on Capitol Security
Room: 15 State Capitol
Chair: Lt. Governor Prettner Solon
Agenda:
1. Approval of August 14, 2013 Meeting Minutes, Acceptance of Agenda
2. Part 2 of 2: Firearms on the Capitol Complex, Discussion on Policy Direction, Draft Language
3. Public Comment
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And post video if you can find it.
;)
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H.F. 240: Prove you're sane! The sheriff may require you to get a letter from a doctor or psychiatrist to get a carry or transferee purchase) permit
There's a Catch-22 for you.
No mental health professional who values his or her license would sign off on someone they haven't been seeing regularly enough to know whether or not the person doesn't constitute a risk. But ... if you're seeing a shrink regularly enough for them to be able to make that assessment, more than likely you AREN'T stable enough that you should be entrusted with guns. At least, not predictably enough that a mental health practitioner would feel comfortable signing off on it.
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Wow. I just read this thread beginning to end. DustinD, you've done a fantastic job and all of us, not just those in Minnesota, are deeply in your debt. I wish we had more like you. You're doing things, not just going on the Internet and complaining.
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Video of the hearing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqRpb7bBi1w
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i forgot to post this here last night when I saw it.
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1001594_510346502395064_1928460763_n.jpg)
More information at: https://www.facebook.com/events/415770638525504/
As an update on the carry at the capitol issue: I wasn't able to make it the second day, but we won hands down. Even the anti gun state governor Dayton (D) has been on our side lately and sided with carry at the capitol.
Minnesota has formed several new pro gun groups, and even formed a new PAC.
www.mngopac.org
www.facebook.com/mngopac (https://www.facebook.com/mngopac?hc_location=stream)
In about four months the legislature will be back in session. I will start a new thread when we go on the offensive.
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Minnesota Gun Rights Seminar
Saturday, November 30
10 a.m. - 3 p.m.
$15 per attendee covers lunch and all materials
Join GOCRA for our first-ever gun rights activist training. We'll discuss our strategy for the next year, and you'll learn how to become a loud and clear voice for Second Amendment rights in Minnesota, whether dealing with politicians, the media, or your friends and neighbors. Come learn from our 25 years of experience, and help us shape the future for gun rights in Minnesota.
Workshops:
Learn how to influence decision-makers, the press and regular folks.
Get Involved
Find out how you can make a difference in your community and around the state
Planning Ahead
Collaborate on making the next year a victory for civil rights
After the seminar, please stay for our
GOCRA Member Meeting
Saturday, November 30
3 p.m. - 5 p.m.
Limited to GOCRA members only
Join us as we discuss the "state of the state" -- what happened last session, what's coming this session, and how you can help.
---
You have to subscribe to the GOCRA email newsletter to get an invite.
Also in my inbox is a warning that Bloomberg's MAIG is targeting Minnesota and four other states for universal background checks and registration. They said this year might be worse than last year, and they are not prone to exaggeration and hysterics like the NRA.