Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on August 28, 2015, 09:07:39 PM
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I guess this is good. I don't like open carry, but if it floats ones boat. Just looks like it's written to allow cops to harass at will.
http://ag.arkansas.gov/opinions/docs/2015-064.html
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You don't like open carry; I don't like asking permission :P
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You don't like open carry; I don't like asking permission :P
I don't like asking permission either. I think the 2A is my permit. But constitutional carry most likely will not pass here.
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Children, can we just celebrate that after some very convoluted legal reasoning the Arkansas AG has given a definitive ruling that will provide nothing but non-binding guidance to the courts until someone gets some precedent case law on the books?
:facepalm:
[popcorn]
stay safe.
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(1) the demeanor of the suspect; (2) the gait and manner of the suspect; (3) any information received from third persons;
Totally subjective, and reliant on historically inaccurate reporting data.
)(4) the suspect’s proximity to known criminal conduct.
With a broad enough definition, this could apply to 99% of any person's daily routine. As the opinion states, if only one of these factors triggers an inquiry by law enforcement, then at what point does "criminal conduct" cease to be relevant? Hell, a red light camera at a busy intersection could be construed to compile enough data to establish "known criminal conduct."
How about they just concede that the mere presence of a visible weapon under any circumstance does not meet probable cause?
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[quote[First, any person who carries a handgun should be aware that a law enforcement officer might lawfully inquire into that person’s purpose. Determining culpability or potential culpability under § 5-73-120(a) is initially a matter for law enforcement following guidelines that routinely apply when investigating a misdemeanor involving the danger of forcible injury to persons. A law enforcement officer may stop and detain any person reasonably suspected of violating § 5-73-120(a) if necessary to identify the person or determine the lawfulness of his or her conduct.[4]
Whether an officer has reasonable suspicion will depend upon a number of circumstance-specific factors. Some of these factors are recounted in Ark. Code Ann. § 16-81-203 (Repl. 2005), including: (1) the demeanor of the suspect; (2) the gait and manner of the suspect; (3) any information received from third persons; and (4) the suspect’s proximity to known criminal conduct.[/quote]
Boy, what a roundabout way of saying that Terry is still the law of the land - kind of.
stay safe.
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Boy, what a roundabout way of saying that Terry is still the law of the land - kind of.
You beat me to it.
The key is:
First, any person who carries a handgun should be aware that a law enforcement officer might lawfully inquire into that person’s purpose. Determining culpability or potential culpability under § 5-73-120(a) is initially a matter for law enforcement following guidelines that routinely apply when investigating a misdemeanor involving the danger of forcible injury to persons. A law enforcement officer may stop and detain any person reasonably suspected of violating § 5-73-120(a) if necessary to identify the person or determine the lawfulness of his or her conduct.[4]
Whether an officer has reasonable suspicion will depend upon a number of circumstance-specific factors. Some of these factors are recounted in Ark. Code Ann. § 16-81-203 (Repl. 2005), including: (1) the demeanor of the suspect; (2) the gait and manner of the suspect; (3) any information received from third persons; and (4) the suspect’s proximity to known criminal conduct.
IMHO, any police officer who is not aware of the allowable criteria for initiating an investigatory stop (per Terry) is a police office in need of remedial training ASAP. (This would include, of course, virtually the entire Philadelphia police department.) It has been well established in the courts that engaging in an activity that is lawful CANNOT of itself constitute grounds for detention or investigation.
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^^
Which is why I say get harassed by a cop. Our AG is an idiot, trying to have it both ways. I don't open carry, I don't look down on folks that do. It I lived in Montana, like Tallpine, I'd probably open carry. Here in AR, not going to happen. This opinion gives any idiot with a badge and 1/4 brain legal justification to stop and harass a citizen legally going about their business. That's all it does. Oh, and to open carry, one must have a AR issue Concealed Carry License. Otherwise you are only covered under the "journey" portion of the law. Once you exit your vehicle, you just broke the law.
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This opinion gives any idiot with a badge and 1/4 brain legal justification to stop and harass a citizen legally going about their business. That's all it does.
Actually, it doesn't do that at all. In fact, it reaffirms Terry v. Ohio. However, the way this opinion is written I would not be surprised to see many police officers interpret it to mean they can stop at will.
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A fellow down in Texas who was open carrying while putting gas in his car was shot in the back and murdered ;)
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A fellow down in Texas who was open carrying while putting gas in his car was shot in the back and murdered ;)
Yep. Sad to hear about that. Been warning about folks doing that stuff, and how it will only get worse