Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on January 28, 2016, 11:49:43 AM
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Do any of you use one of those small welding machines available at Amazon, etc.? I am interested and looking for input.
The last time I welded was 35 years ago. Took a couple of semesters at night at community college. I only learned oxy-acetylene and stick arc, but I got pretty good if I do say so myself. I figure I should be able to re-teach myself. I don't want to invest in a big unit though - want to keep it at 110v and potentially something that can plug into my 3500 watt generator (if that's too small, I may be getting a 7000 watt in the near future). I plan on doing this just to relearn the skill and work on smaller homeowner projects - welding on blade attachments for my ATV, steel gates, etc. Nothing where a broken or crappy weld could get someone hurt or worse.
Probably just stick arc, but I see some of the machines do stick and TIG. Don't know if that's worth it for me. Anyway, I know quite a few of you weld, so am looking for advice.
Also, tangent question: I dug up my old oxy-acetylene outfit. Gauges, tips, and hoses were all stored properly, but do I need to worry about them having sat that long? Maybe new hoses, but what about gauges? They've been sitting for a good 20 years. Same with the tanks. Tanks will be well past hydro (I assume they get hydroed same as scuba tanks?), but will I be able to still take them to a shop for exchange, or will they not be accepted having sat that long?
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Hobart handler 140.
If it doesn't say Hobart, Miller, Lincoln, Esab on it it's a piece of *expletive deleted*it.
Forget 110v stick go with mig. And get gas mig not a fluxcore only machine. The 110v stick machines tend to be way too much of a compromise
Any stick machine can do lift arc tig I'll explain more later. It just needs to have a infinitely variable output and not tapped
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How much money do you want to spend?
How much portability do you need? A gas bottle is one more thing to lug around.
Welding web is a good site to research this.
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Hobart handler 140.
If it doesn't say Hobart, Miller, Lincoln, Esab on it it's a piece of *expletive deleted*it.
Forget 110v stick go with mig. And get gas mig not a fluxcore only machine. The 110v stick machines tend to be way too much of a compromise
Any stick machine can do lift arc tig I'll explain more later. It just needs to have a infinitely variable output and not tapped
This. SO. MUCH. THIS.
Hobart Handler 140. Full stop. That's it. That's your answer.
I have an old Hobart Handler 135. It's been an abolutly rock sold machine, and I my go-to, no hassle, I-need-to-bang-something-out welder. If you can afford it, pick up a cylinder of CO2 from your local gas supplier.
I used my Handler 135 to weld together everything from a go cart when I was 16, to, just recently a broken pulley for a neighbor. If it broke tomorrow, I'd replace it absolutely immediately.
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Thanks for the input so far. I'd like to keep it under $500 since I'm sort of "starting out all over again". I don't have a big list of projects. Just want to relearn the skill and I have a handful of things in mind that I could actually use it on.
Is the Hobart 140 something that would run on 110/20amps? I'll probably be having an electrician come out to wire a transfer switch to the house well, so I have the option of asking him to wire a 220 outlet if that changes things for machine options. Don't really need portability, but it would be a nice option.
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Yeah the 140 is a 110v 20a machine.
110v mig is good for thin stuff and that's it. Real welding you gotta step up to 220 and a more expensive machine
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If I had to do it over again (I have a millermatic 212), I would get the 211. It will run on either 110 or 240 and is portable. The difference in duty cycle wouldn't matter for me because I'm slow. Outside your budget for a new one though.
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Okay, similar question:
Any combo TIG / MIG machines?
Nothing too big needed...needs to run on 220/30 or less.
Or, lacking combo...best little TIG? (I love me some TIG)
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Boomhauer's right.
My Hobart Handler 135 is about 15 years old, and it will run on my 3500w NorthStar generator with no problems.
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Okay, similar question:
Any combo TIG / MIG machines?
Nothing too big needed...needs to run on 220/30 or less.
Or, lacking combo...best little TIG? (I love me some TIG)
I've never seen a combo TIG/MIG. It's usually Combo TIG/Stick. MIG and TIG are pretty different processes.
For smaller TIG, I have a Miller Dynasty 210DX that I've been thrilled with. It's been a great machine. I wouldn't want to go much smaller then that. It also helps that I have a couple of wire feeds for quick projects.
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Okay, similar question:
Any combo TIG / MIG machines?
Nothing too big needed...needs to run on 220/30 or less.
Or, lacking combo...best little TIG? (I love me some TIG)
You want this then.
https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/welders/multiprocess/miller-multimatic-200-mig-welder
've never seen a combo TIG/MIG. It's usually Combo TIG/Stick. MIG and TIG are pretty different processes
They exist. Multiprocess machines.
For TIG only I highly suggest the Dynasty series if you are looking to do aluminum. Expensive but worth every penny. Will also do stick so you're covered for. Other good choices include the Lincoln Precision Tig 225 and the HTP USA Invertig 221 (it would be about a grand less than the Miller and HTP is a good company)
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If I had to do it over again (I have a millermatic 212), I would get the 211. It will run on either 110 or 240 and is portable. The difference in duty cycle wouldn't matter for me because I'm slow. Outside your budget for a new one though.
The 211 or its slightly more economical version the Hobart 210MVP are both excellent choices.
Hobart and Miller are owned by the same company and they essentially share product lines. Both are identical high quality, Hobart just usually has a bit less features.
I don't know about running on a generator and what size it takes. I think to run a 220v machine you're probably looking in the neighborhood of a 10,000 watt genset since that's what my engine drive puts out as a generator.
To turn a stick welder into a TIG welder you just need it to be a DC stick welder and it to be infinitely variable control vs. the "tapped" ranges of machines like a Lincoln tombstone welder. You buy a bottle of Argon and a TIG torch cable with a lug on the end that you clamp the stick stinger onto and you control the gas flow with a valve on the torch cable.
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Hobart handler 140.
If it doesn't say Hobart, Miller, Lincoln, Esab on it it's a piece of *expletive deleted*it.
Forget 110v stick go with mig. And get gas mig not a fluxcore only machine. The 110v stick machines tend to be way too much of a compromise
Any stick machine can do lift arc tig I'll explain more later. It just needs to have a infinitely variable output and not tapped
What he said, I prefer Lincoln, because that is manufacturer of the machines I learned how to SMAW, TIG and MIG on.
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110v mig is good for thin stuff and that's it. Real welding you gotta step up to 220 and a more expensive machine
1/8"? I looked up the 140 and they claim up to 1/4", but I would assume that's pushing it. If it does an 1/8th reliably, that's good for my futzing around and small projects. It would be nice to get one of those 220s, but I can't really justify the >$1000 cost for anything I would do at this point.
If I did in the future find I could use a bigger machine, I suppose I could also look for an old Lincoln on a trailer. Every farmer and his brother has one around here, so there might oughta be some used deals, and I've got nothing but room around here to store one. Plus big ass generator. :)
Edit: That Hobart gets rave reviews by the way. Five stars at almost every site that sells them.
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Yeah 1/8 is good 1/4 is a maybe
The Lincoln engine driven SA200s are no good as generators they only put out some auxiliary power that is good enough to run small loads and its DC. Excellent welders tho they are preferred by many pipeliners.
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Good to know on the no bueno as generators.
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I'd ask a weld shop to check out your regulators and get some new hose for the torch. Probably catch flak trying to exchange the cylinders, try it, or just buy new ones from someplace like Tractor Supply. Relearn to weld with the torch and call it good. I think the homeowner welders are too much of a compromise in nice terms, a joke in my everyday speak.
I have two decent welders at home, an older Hobart 220V buzzbox and an AC stick gas powered Lincoln that is older than I am. I hope to not be on the road so i don't need a big engine driven rig, but I do need to get set up for AC TiG so I can be more sidework friendly.
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I'd ask a weld shop to check out your regulators and get some new hose for the torch. Probably catch flak trying to exchange the cylinders, try it, or just buy new ones from someplace like Tractor Supply. Relearn to weld with the torch and call it good. I think the homeowner welders are too much of a compromise in nice terms, a joke in my everyday speak.
I wasn't even thinking of that aspect. Again, having no familiarity with these small 110v units, I wasn't sure if they would outperform oxy-acetylene or not, or if there are benefits to them over exy-acetylene.
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Good to know on the no bueno as generators.
Yeah. Now the Lincoln Rangers or Miller bobcats? Those are built to be generators too and work well for that (although they are thirsty). The SA200s and their derivatives are built solely to produce a high quality DC welding current, they don't rectify AC into DC like the smaller welders and their auxillary outlet is meant to run like a grinder or a drill and that's it.
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I wasn't even thinking of that aspect. Again, having no familiarity with these small 110v units, I wasn't sure if they would outperform oxy-acetylene or not, or if there are benefits to them over exy-acetylene.
O/A is a good for thin stuff but very time consuming, and you wouldn't need any extra equipment beyond the torch setup and your PPE. The big benefit of a 110v mig vs. O/A is speed- mig is gonna be your fastest process but for just fooling around and thin stuff O/A welding is great and will do a lot.
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I would buy a MIG only if you already have an oxyacetylene setup, which you need to have for heating, bending, brazing, stress relief, getting bolts unstuck, and yes you can weld very well the thicknesses typically handled by wimpy homeowner MIGs. After the oxyacetylene I would say you should jump straight to a ballsy stick machine so you can handle the big stuff, then you should be covered for everything. Like a 22 and 12 guage; get those first then start talking about what glock to get...
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Okay, similar question:
Any combo TIG / MIG machines?
Nothing too big needed...needs to run on 220/30 or less.
Or, lacking combo...best little TIG? (I love me some TIG)
There are a lot of new, inverter based Tig-Mig-stick machines out now- Miller multimatic 200, Tweco 211i, Lincoln 210MP, etc. Those are $1k to $1800. These are all DC machines, no aluminum unless you want to use a spoolgun.
These are 200 amp machines. They have dual input. 120 and 240 volt. There are also smaller units like the tweco 141i, 120 only. Around $600-800. Tweco used to be Thermal arc, they renamed part of the line- Thermal arc, Tweco, Victor and ESAB are all part of the same company now. AFAIK, none of these come standard with a Tig torch or pedal, that is extra.
There are some nice small DC tig-stick machines like the Miller 150's and the thermal arc 201, and some nice new 200 amp class AC-DC -Stick inverters, like the Lincoln SW200, (1400!!) and the Thermal Arc 186. ($1700).
The HTP's seem to be nice machines, but it is a $1000 step up price wise.
I am thinking about getting the SW200. It's red, USA, and a five year warranty is available. And will run on 120 or 240- obviously some capacity is lost on 120, but to be able to pick it up, walk out to the barn, and run a bead would be great.
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1/8"? I looked up the 140 and they claim up to 1/4", but I would assume that's pushing it. If it does an 1/8th reliably, that's good for my futzing around and small projects. It would be nice to get one of those 220s, but I can't really justify the >$1000 cost for anything I would do at this point.
I've had good luck with mine.
For instance, here's one I did with my Hobart 135. I don't guarentee this got full penetration, but it was well enough to lift a 1300lb lathe off a trailer:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv282%2Fnick1911%2F20151118_145621_zpsul8gae4n.jpg&hash=216681e96a26735c1a7013da348ce3565519c283)
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If I already had an O/A torch set and a $500 budget I would put in a 240 outlet and look for a decent used AC/DC stick machine like a Miller thunderbolt. Not as fast or sexy as mig but I could do anything with it while I saved up for other. There is cost for all the other stuff you'll need and want like auto dark helmet safety gear grinders clamps tables ...
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You want this then.
https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/welders/multiprocess/miller-multimatic-200-mig-welder
They exist. Multiprocess machines.
For TIG only I highly suggest the Dynasty series if you are looking to do aluminum. Expensive but worth every penny. Will also do stick so you're covered for. Other good choices include the Lincoln Precision Tig 225 and the HTP USA Invertig 221 (it would be about a grand less than the Miller and HTP is a good company)
I was looking at the HTP actually...it's gotten some pretty good reviews of the "as Lin as you aren't doing heavy production, and could tolerate a down week if it breaks as part availability isn't local/instant like blue/red, it's actually a good choice.
Since that fits my needs to a T...im basically looking for someone with experience to say "yeah, go for it"...basically, I need an "adultier adult" (re: welding experience) to okay it =)
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Also, regarding combo...it's really not necessary. Once I learned to TIG, I really don't need/want to MIG...im not doing anything big, I really love the TIG controllability, and the slightly different setup/time from "need to weld" to "bead done" isn't that big of an impact for me. That and if -really- see the need for a MIG, a small quasi-portable cheaper one would be it...so I'd rather get the TIG first, as also, I need more practice there.
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I was looking at the HTP actually...it's gotten some pretty good reviews of the "as Lin as you aren't doing heavy production, and could tolerate a down week if it breaks as part availability isn't local/instant like blue/red, it's actually a good choice.
Since that fits my needs to a T...im basically looking for someone with experience to say "yeah, go for it"...basically, I need an "adultier adult" (re: welding experience) to okay it =)
I would have no problem buying an HTP. I've looked at one extensively and was almost ready to pull the trigger on one before I went crazy and brought my Ranger 305 (which I can tig at 300 amps if I so want to with)
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I have been reading welding web for a few years. There has been only praise for the HTP welders, and also for the apparently superlative support from the company.
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I have been reading welding web for a few years. There has been only praise for the HTP welders, and also for the apparently superlative support from the company.
Yep. If you're gonna buy an import welder, they are the choice (and their welders are not Chinese *expletive deleted*it), they are European
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Possibly stupid follow up question:
Let's say I went ahead and put in a 220 outlet in the work area. Would the Hobart wire feed still be the recommended machine (in my price range), or would we start talking about machines like this Lincoln?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln-Electric-AC225S-Arc-Welder-K1170/100041326
Maybe the Hobart with the MIG option is more versatile? The stick arc like this Lincoln does is the only welding I ever learned, so don't know if the Hobart opens up more possibilities, even though it won't do thicker stuff like the Lincoln will?
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You could get a 220v class Mig (much higher amps and can handle thicker stuff) with your 220v outlet or you can run a real stick welder like the Lincoln tombstone you have in your link. You could get something like the Hobart Handler 190 but it'd be more money but you'll be able to handle thicker stuff. Welding supply stores often get local school machines or local shop machines on trade in too and go through them and sell them at a reasonable cost so you may want to ask at your local welding supply store and see what they have available.
It really sounds, however, that you are wanting to weld thinner stuff (light gauge angle, etc) and stick is a good bit harder to do well with that than other processes like mig and tig or even O/A (the smallest commonly available stick rod is 3/32, and while smaller stuff is available it tends to be commonly sold in tiny blister packs at high prices)
That welder is also an AC only buzzbox, not DC capable (AC has to use different rods than DC, like AC can't run 6010 or 7018, it has to have 6011 or 7018AC, which has stabilizers in the flux to deal with the AC's arc characteristics). Probably fine for your case (i.e., 6011, 7018AC are the rods sold at Home Depot/Lowes/Tractor Supply so the supply isn't an issue) and plenty of stuff has been built with AC tombstones just like that one.
You can also get one much cheaper on craigslist, like for around a hundred bucks in good shape.
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Thanks for that. Yeah, I think most of what I'd be looking at is under 1/4", probably well under 1/8" though I haven't measured. Fixing (or making) small box scraper blades as an example, so it sounds like sticking with that Hobart might still be the way to go, for now anyway.
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Yep. If you're gonna buy an import welder, they are the choice (and their welders are not Chinese *expletive deleted*it), they are European
Sweet!
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Thread Necro.
Due to expenses that came up and various other reasons, I had put off buying a welding machine at the time of this thread.
I just broke my box scraper yesterday though, so am figuring this might be a good time to look back into this. For the uses I had previously outlined (stuff like fixing this blade) and generally well under 1/4" steel, is the Hobart 140 still the machine to beat, or has something better come along for light duty stuff?
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Well, I picked up the Handler 140 on sale at Tractor Supply. Nice little machine and pretty easy set up.
I practiced a bit with it yesterday (after not having run a bead for 35 years). I have a 115/30amp outlet for it, so no power issues. I still need to work on speed and proper settings (even after using the handy chart printed on the machine) to run a decent bead. Also, I'm cracking myself up because muscle memory from 35 years ago is involuntarily kicking in and I keep starting a run by trying to strike a non-existent stick onto the surface (back then I learned arc and OA welding, never did MIG or TIG). :laugh:
Doing that has already plugged my nozzle once and given me my first bird's nest, which was fun (not). I'm digging up some more scrap metal to clean up and practice on over the next couple of days. Once I get my beads on a flat surface down (I'm using the cursive "u" and "e" methods (hey - a reason to know cursive!)) I'm going to practice some fillets and multiple passes, then I'll hit the scraper blade as my first real project. At this point I'm just using the 0.30 flux core wire. Right now I don't care about clean welds as much as I care about durable welds, and am just doing mild steel, but if I find enough stuff to do, I might get a 20cu ft bottle to use with the regulators that were included with the machine.
Also, because after I dug up my old welding helmet circa 1979 and it was about falling apart, I sprang for an auto-darkening helmet. I was gonna get the metal Man from Tractor Supply, but then spent and extra $20 and got the Kobalt from Lowes based on reviews and its use of 3M technology. Figured my eyes were worth it. :) Anyway, man what a difference in ease of use!
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Very nice. I think you'll be happy with the machine.
One word of wisdom, if you get a gas cylinder eventually, get a bigger one then 20cf. The cost of gas is much cheaper with larger cylinders, and you'll be happy to have the additional run time.
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Very nice. I think you'll be happy with the machine.
One word of wisdom, if you get a gas cylinder eventually, get a bigger one then 20cf. The cost of gas is much cheaper with larger cylinders, and you'll be happy to have the additional run time.
Good point. Thanks, and thanks for the original recommendation!
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Once you try it with gas shielding, you'll never do flux core again. Congrats on the purchase.
and auto dark helmets are one of the best things you'll ever spend money on. I have 2 of the 3m Speedglass hoods. I added a 1.5 cheater lens to my main one and the other is a spare that my granddaughter uses when we have welding fun.
I have found that I can weld anything with my 220 Miller AC/DC stick machine and a 110 Lincoln mig
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I have found that I can weld anything with my 220 Miller AC/DC stick machine and a 110 Lincoln mig
Of course I'm back into it and excited now, but I was already thinking about getting the AC/DC box and running a 220 outlet to my work area at some point, just for handling some thicker material. Or else a cheap used welder/generator if I ran into one around here.
I just need to step back and give it time to make sure I would actually have enough projects (versus welding everything in sight just to weld) to make the money decision. :)
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Once you try it with gas shielding, you'll never do flux core again. Congrats on the purchase.
You should have both. I have a 220V Lincoln MIG that does like 80% of my welding. It's a great machine. But I have found there's a place in my life for a 110V machine loaded with flux core. No bottles to move or set up. I can (and have) just walked it out to the truck, climbed under and fixed exhaust hangers in the driveway. 5 min job. Maybe 5%* of my welding jobs a little 110V Flux-core is perfect for.
*The other 15% need the TIG.
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You should have both. I have a 220V Lincoln MIG that does like 80% of my welding. It's a great machine. But I have found there's a place in my life for a 110V machine loaded with flux core. No bottles to move or set up. I can (and have) just walked it out to the truck, climbed under and fixed exhaust hangers in the driveway. 5 min job. Maybe 5%* of my welding jobs a little 110V Flux-core is perfect for.
*The other 15% need the TIG.
I use my Hobart 135 with flux core hooked up to my 3kw generator way more than I figured I would. Practically no limits on location.
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Flux core wire gets a bad rap- but a lot of big commercial work has been done with it. And it will work in the wind.