Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: HeroHog on May 05, 2016, 10:47:11 AM
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I changed from an Independent to a Libertarian today. I've been registered as an Independent since I was 18 even though 99% of the time I voted Republican because I didn't want to feel beholding to any party. The main reason I went this route was because I despise the Dems and the Republicans have shown time and again how corrupt and dishonest they are and that they could care less about representing the people or putting forth conservative values. :old:
Let's git this party started!
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I changed from an Independent to a Libertarian today. I've been registered as an Independent since I was 18 even though 99% of the time I voted Republican because I didn't want to feel beholding to any party. The main reason I went this route was because I despise the Dems and the Republicans have shown time and again how corrupt and dishonest they are and that they could care less about representing the people or putting forth conservative values.
I suspect you will be disappointed if you are seeking "conservative values" in the L-party.
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I have been to several Libertarian meetings and followed them a bit and can agree with a good deal, but not all, of their ideas/philosophies. Right now NONE of the 3 parties fit MY ideal but I know that with the Trump shake up and the growth of the Libertarian party, hopefully, someone may remove their cranium from their posterior (but I ain't holding my breath on THAT happening!). Change or burn and start over. We had a great plan laid out by some smart people a few hundred years back, got fat, complacent and stupid and here we are.
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I have been to several Libertarian meetings and followed them a bit and can agree with a good deal, but not all, of their ideas/philosophies. Right now NONE of the 3 parties fit MY ideal but I know that with the Trump shake up and the growth of the Libertarian party, hopefully, someone may remove their cranium from their posterior (but I ain't holding my breath on THAT happening!). Change or burn and start over. We had a great plan laid out by some smart people a few hundred years back, got fat, complacent and stupid and here we are.
Maybe you have a point, considering that from 2008 to 2012, the LP share of votes cast in the POTUS race MORE THAN DOUBLED (but did not broach 1% of the votes cast).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_the_Libertarian_Party_(United_States)
The LP slogan can be "All for One* in 2016!"
* One percent, that is.
Yep, it will be just like the heady days of 1980, when the LP got 1.07% of the vote under Clark/Koch. Good times.
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I call myself an independant, but I caucus with the Republicans (when I caucus at all.) I have voted Libertarian a few times.
I was a stealth Ron Paul delegate, but did not move up the the state level (I helped elect other RP delegates to move up)
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This will be my first election cycle as an anarchist. Does that count?
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My political views line up more with the L's these days then with the R's. Cruz was their last chance for me. A constitutional conservative.
I get it that Abortion and the culture wars aren't going to go away anytime soon, but the best chance we have to reverse those trends is to first reverse the growth and intrusion of government.
Sorry, but the go-along, get-along R's left me. Along with all the low information voters that decided to back a huckster as a way "getting back" at the R's.
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Who has changed their political party for this election?
Party?
There's a party? Was I invited? I didn't see the invitation.
Is it formal, business casual, or come-as-you-are?
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Party?
There's a party? Was I invited? I didn't see the invitation.
Is it formal, business casual, or come-as-you-are?
Costume party.
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I'm still a registered Republican but I resigned from volunteering and as a member of the central committee where I used to live in 2014 because I wasn't agreeing with a lot of the platform from the local and state party. Party seemed to have been taken over my the religious right who had stay at home moms who homeschooled their kids. So they had the time to generate planks and platforms, call people to get behind them, etc. Where the rest of us had to work at least 8 hours a day.
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I'm still a registered Republican but I resigned from volunteering and as a member of the central committee where I used to live in 2014 because I wasn't agreeing with a lot of the platform from the local and state party. Party seemed to have been taken over my the religious right who had stay at home moms who homeschooled their kids. So they had the time to generate planks and platforms, call people to get behind them, etc. Where the rest of us had to work at least 8 hours a day.
This is a bad thing?
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I (and Jamis) re-posted this on FB today:
A CLOSING POLITICAL STATEMENT.
I have devoted the past 52 years of my life to fighting for individualism, free markets, and limited government, in every way I knew how. I did so believing that most Americans fundamentally, "deep down," were sympathetic to that point of view, but were merely confused about it.
Sadly, that has proved to be a half-century delusion on my part. Presented with clear choices, Americans in the supposedly more "conservative" party overwhelmingly have voted for the worst possible candidate.
Now, in victory, they are shocked that I won't be supporting their representative in the November election. They claim that the election of Hillary Clinton would be far worse for the country than the election of Donald Trump.
I believe that view of the choice between Trump and Clinton is myopic. It focuses on the short term. But the future of the nation depends upon the ideas it chooses, not the mere mouthpieces and implementers of those ideas. And from the standpoint of IDEAS: Do you think that redefining "conservatism" and rebranding the Republican Party as endorsing populist national statism -- which is what a Trump nomination does -- offers America any hope of EVER changing minds in this country toward individual rights and human liberty? Or does it, in fact, fix statism as our permanent GPS heading?
Many Republicans look at the specific socialist policies that another Democratic administration will bring and recoil in horror. Surely we need to vote for the Republicans, however bad, right? But the GOP has been enabling the Democrats' socialism for decades, anyway, whether they have been in power or not; so it doesn't seem to matter who is in the White House or Congress, now, does it? We're going to get Democratic socialism regardless.
The one thing America desperately needs, to map a better future, are articulate, inspiring, principled political champions of the alternative: individual rights, free markets, and constitutionally limited government. Until this primary, the GOP, at least begrudgingly, remained a home for such constitutional conservatives and free marketers -- if only as renters, not owners. But last night, they were evicted from that home. The alternative they represented was voted down, resoundingly, by the majority of Republican voters in the American heartland. You and I can say many things against Ted Cruz, but he clearly represented those principles and that alternative, while Donald Trump clearly represented unprincipled, unrestrained big government. Middle America -- expressed by the Republicans of Indiana, echoing majorities elsewhere around the nation -- chose to hammer the final nail in the coffin of constitutionalism and free markets.
With the insufferable Donald Trump and his brand of populist national statism now THE defining brand of the Republican Party, principled defenders of liberty have no home in either major party (and no, the Libertarian Party is NOT such a home).
And I for one am not going to help Trump's supporters maintain the pretense that what they have done is promote "American greatness" -- or, in fact, anything related to the principles that once defined America. Even to continue to argue with them about all this helps them maintain the pretense that they are open to facts and reason. Again and again, they have proved otherwise. Out of a field of 17 candidates, they picked THE worst -- the most statist, amoral, unprincipled candidate of them all -- as their "representative" and champion.
So be it. Now, they'll have to live with the inevitable, disastrous consequences that are coming.
I don't say that in anger or smug self-satisfaction. I am not malicious or vengeful. I don't wish ill upon Trumpeters or America, in retaliation. But even if so inclined, emotionally, I wouldn't have to. The die has been cast, and the calamities to come are now logically unavoidable. From the standpoint of the future of individual liberty and constitutional government, the election of either Trump or Clinton is the choice between arsenic or cyanide. It makes no difference to the outcome, only to the manner of death.
As I said, I've invested a half century of my life to persuasion. That's quite enough. Rather than dwell any longer on the current disgusting and dispiriting spectacle, I shall concentrate on a bucket list of better things to do, to occupy my remaining years. Those things are within my direct control. The opinions of others are not -- and they are welcome to them.
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I (and Jamis) re-posted this on FB today:
That is all fine and dandy except that Romney, McCain, GW Bush, Dole and Bush Sr were not actually conservatives who believed in constitutionalism, individualism, free markets, and limited government either.
Trump just hasn't blown smoke up our asses about how much of a conservative he is like the above list of statists did when they ran for office. So in that way he has actually been a more honest candidate!
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This is a bad thing?
it turned into abortion bad, gays bad, non Christians bad... who cares about smaller government, economics, etc.
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I (and Jamis) re-posted this on FB today:
0. And NOW is the time the author decides to bolt? Was his head so far up his fundament he did not witness the nominations of every GOP POTUS candidate since GHWB? I call bullshinola.
1. Meh, none of that means bupkis if the contingent of folks from NW Europe who actually believed in such are displaced by folk who never had and never will hold such notions dear. Immigration is the existential threat and all other issues & ideologies are subservient to it.
2. Trump might stop/slow the national suicide of mass immigration. Might. All the others were tools of the globalists and brought zero probability to the table.
3. In any case, it is all likely to end in blood, fire, and a new dark age where Dem vs GOP is as meaningless as the Blues vs Greens of the Byzantine Empire. My only suggestion is to read St Augustine, as he lived through a similar period in history.
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Bolting from the Republican Party because of Trump?
What about bolting from the party because of all the traitors to the cause who were elected to congress to be conservatives and did the opposite at nearly every turn?
The party is worse than useless, they are part of the problem.
Cruz was too little too late for the base. He couldn't overcome his weaknesses and baggage. He was my pick also but I was never very inspired by him or his chances.
Trump is not a Republican nor a Democrat. He is basically a third party candidate who burst out of the belly of the Republican Party like the alien did from the crew members belly in the original Alien movie :lol:
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This will be my first election cycle as an anarchist. Does that count?
:-)
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Bolting from the Republican Party because of Trump?
What about bolting from the party because of all the traitors to the cause who were elected to congress to be conservatives and did the opposite at nearly every turn?
The party is worse than useless, they are part of the problem.
Cruz was too little too late for the base. He couldn't overcome his weaknesses and baggage. He was my pick also but I was never very inspired by him or his chances.
Trump is not a Republican nor a Democrat. He is basically a third party candidate who burst out of the belly of the Republican Party like the alien did from the crew members belly in the original Alien movie :lol:
This. Cruz was the last best hope for the R's to reverse/stop/slow down the decline into socialism. The previous "Vote for Us and we'll stop Obama" R's, whom once we voted for and then handed Obama everything he asked for is the reason for my leaving. Ted Cruz was the last best chance to stop the slide. It's all over now except for the crying.
Sadly, I won't get to enjoy the schadenfreude as I expect we'll be too busy fighting for our lives to enjoy such trifles.
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Bolting from the Republican Party because of Trump?
What about bolting from the party because of all the traitors to the cause who were elected to congress to be conservatives and did the opposite at nearly every turn?
The party is worse than useless, they are part of the problem.
This. I voted for Bush and McCain. Voting for Trump is no worse.
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This. Cruz was the last best hope for the R's to reverse/stop/slow down the decline into socialism. The previous "Vote for Us and we'll stop Obama" R's, whom once we voted for and then handed Obama everything he asked for is the reason for my leaving. Ted Cruz was the last best chance to stop the slide. It's all over now except for the crying.
Sadly, I won't get to enjoy the schadenfreude as I expect we'll be too busy fighting for our lives to enjoy such trifles.
Unfortunately the office of President does wield that kind of power or should not. They're to execute the law not make law.
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Who has changed their political party for this election?
Donald Trump?
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Donald Trump?
But from what to what?
The prevailing story line is that he switched from Democrat to Republican. In fact, he used to be a Republican, and in late 2011 he switched from Republican to Independent in order to be able to run as a third-party candidate. I couldn't find when he switched back to Republican, but he apparently did NOT jump directly from Democrat to Republican for this (or any) election.
As to his donating to Democrats -- that's part of doing business. Most businesses and businessmen donate to both sides during any election. How much has he donated to Republicans over the years?
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Hmmmmmm
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Why GOP Strategist Mary Matalin Is Registering as a Libertarian
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/videos/2016-05-05/why-mary-matalin-is-registering-as-a-libertarian
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I changed from an Independent to a Libertarian today.
Welcome to the party!
One thing to be aware of is that the libertarian party is not purely 'conservative' by any means, tending to view itself as a third path. Unlike what you hear in much of the media; it draws in people from the left as well as from the right.
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Hasn't the Libertarian party pretty much been taken over by the legalize marihuana activists (1937 spelling) to the point where that's really the only plank in their platform?
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I've recently begun to feel I should change my political registration since some people who I thought were on my side have begun suggesting that Repubs should vote for Hillary rather than Trump.
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Hasn't the Libertarian party pretty much been taken over by the legalize marihuana activists (1937 spelling) to the point where that's really the only plank in their platform?
It's certainly the most well known plank outside of the party, and I won't disagree that you have a lot who joined for that sole reason, but the rest of the information is still out there.
But right now it's something of a success story to bring up, even if sometimes it's a 'look, the earth didn't fall down because of legalizing pot!'
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Aren't Libertarians still the party of unrestricted open borders?
As I remember it:
Libertarians generally don't see any problems with letting in millions of unskilled, barely educated, third worlders. Cheap labor is always good.
Libertarians think it is a good idea to let in as many foreign skilled workers as we can especially if they are willing to work at lower wages than USA citizens. Cheap labor is always good.
Libertarians are globalists at heart and chafe at the concept that national self interest might trump international global markets.
The idea that replacing the jobs of the native population with cheaper foreigners might not be in our best national interest doesn't interest them. All that matters is cheaper labor for multinational corporations.
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Aren't Libertarians still the party of unrestricted open borders?
As I remember it:
Libertarians generally don't see any problems with letting in millions of unskilled, barely educated, third worlders. Cheap labor is always good.
Libertarians think it is a good idea to let in as many foreign skilled workers as we can especially if they are willing to work at lower wages than USA citizens. Cheap labor is always good.
Libertarians are globalists at heart and chafe at the concept that national self interest might trump international global markets.
The idea that replacing the jobs of the native population with cheaper foreigners might not be in our best national interest doesn't interest them. All that matters is cheaper labor for multinational corporations.
How is that functionally different then the Democrats or Republicans?
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How is that functionally different then the Democrats or Republicans?
They'd be here legally, and thus a touch harder to take advantage of?
Aren't Libertarians still the party of unrestricted open borders?
The fundamentalist, big "L" Libertarians do indeed believe in this. I support a few controls, but not the vast mess we have now. The important point I have is that we can't have unlimited immigration until we dismantle the welfare state.
Libertarians generally don't see any problems with letting in millions of unskilled, barely educated, third worlders. Cheap labor is always good.
They'd have to get here on their own. But yeah, it's one of the points. More moderate types would have it be a bit like free trade agreements - the other side has to have matching policies and such.
Libertarians are globalists at heart and chafe at the concept that national self interest might trump international global markets.
To be fair, most economists are this way. Comparative advantages and all that mean that the more and more diverse markets you hook together, the better off everybody is.
That being said, you still have to be on guard against shenanigans.
The idea that replacing the jobs of the native population with cheaper foreigners might not be in our best national interest doesn't interest them. All that matters is cheaper labor for multinational corporations.
Multinational corporations can get the cheaper labor just by doing the stuff in the cheap nation. An open border policy means that 'every' business, down to the sole proprietorship, can 'benefit' from the cheap(ish) labor.
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How is that functionally different then the Democrats or Republicans?
...and that's why we have Trump as the Republican nominee.
The base has sent him as the peoples interlocutor to the GOPe; to have a little talk about borders and jobs.
Whether Trump is serious about the border and jobs is yet to be seen. Nobody really doubts that his message has mass appeal. If he makes it to the election and Hillary is his opponent I'm convinced he wins. If he could even get anything done on the border and jobs front as President is also yet to be seen.
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I'm with those who can't see how Trump is really any less "conservative" than McCain, Romney, Bush(any of the three), Dole, etc.
I would have preferred Rand Paul or Cruz. While I'm not a fan of his particularly, I have no issue whatsoever selecting Trump over Hillary. I would say the same about Graham or Jeb for that matter, I rather have Trump than those two frauds. Anyone that can't see a distinction between Trump and Hillary is just fooling themselves.
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Welcome to the party!
One thing to be aware of is that the libertarian party is not purely 'conservative' by any means, tending to view itself as a third path. Unlike what you hear in much of the media; it draws in people from the left as well as from the right.
Oh, I'm quite aware! I'm still going to vote as a consertive independent but at least now the D & R bunch know the L's are picking up more steam and maybe it's time for a cranial-rectialotimy.
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Jobs? Did someone mention jobs?
Just yesterday I read that the administration claims the economy added a whopping 160,000 jobs in April. There are 94,044,000 Americans who are NOT IN the labor force. That means 94 million people not working who are NOT included in the 5% unemployment statistic the administration likes to claim.
And, meanwhile, we have more than 25 million foreign workers here who do have jobs. (And I don't think that figure includes the illegal aliens who are working under the table.)
Yes, I'd say we have a problem, and open borders is not going to fix that. On the other hand, a couple of days ago I stumbled across something from New Zealand. It was a list of job specialties they need. It was a very short list, and none of my skills would even remotely, approximately qualify. If your skills aren't on the list, you can't emigrate to New Zealand. Last I knew, Australia was the same.
Why doesn't the U.S. recognize that we NEED to do that so we can put Americans back to work in the United States of America?
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Why doesn't the U.S. recognize that we NEED to do that so we can put Americans back to work in the United States of America?
Look up the hack that is H1B visas some time.
Business claims that it can't find a US worker that meets it's needs, so it hires them for cheap from India. Despite having fired the US crew that used to work there after forcing them to train their cheap Indian replacements.
In principle, I'm for open borders. But it's like free trade: The other countries have to do the same, and can't be abusing the system.
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Jobs? Did someone mention jobs?
Just yesterday I read that the administration claims the economy added a whopping 160,000 jobs in April. There are 94,044,000 Americans who are NOT IN the labor force. That means 94 million people not working who are NOT included in the 5% unemployment statistic the administration likes to claim.
And, meanwhile, we have more than 25 million foreign workers here who do have jobs.
Yes, I'd say we have a problem, and open borders is not going to fix that. On the other hand, a couple of days ago I stumbled across something from New Zealand. It was a list of job specialties they need. It was a very short list, and none of my skills would even remotely, approximately qualify. If your skills aren't on the list, you can't emigrate to New Zealand. Last I knew, Australia was the same.
Why doesn't the U.S. recognize that we NEED to do that so we can put Americans back to work in the United States of America?
My skills are on that list. =)
Just remember, all economists agree that "free trade" is massively beneficial to the socio-economic class that economists belong to.
I love the guys who simultaneously believe that "free trade" is wonderfully good for the country and that Trump is being buoyed along by the tens of millions of people whose lives and communities have been destroyed by free trade.
That being said, judging on the "deeds not words" scale, Trump will be as bad as or worse on immigration, trade, and pretty much everything else than Hillary let alone any of the other Repubs.
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Look up the hack that is H1B visas some time.
Business claims that it can't find a US worker that meets it's needs, so it hires them for cheap from India. Despite having fired the US crew that used to work there after forcing them to train their cheap Indian replacements.
Yeah. I know.
Disney ...
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Did some trail work on the local single track mb trails this morning. The Trail Boss running todays crew is a hardcore Bernie supporter. Him and I argue on fb occasionally over political stuff.
He told me this morning he will never vote for Hillary and if she ends up on the ticket he is voting for Trump :O
He hates the establishment with a white hot hatred.
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Tell him to look at johnson
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
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Tell him to look at johnson
That's kind of rude. Oh wait, you mean Gary Johnson! Nevermind.