Post by: ...has left the building. on December 11, 2006, 01:02:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuTspbPmV_g&mode=related&search=
Even though Richards and Gibson issued very profuse apologies, Rosie's response on Saturday was:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12092006/gossip/pagesix/rosie_to_asians__loosen_up_pagesix_.htm
Where is the Hollywood response that Gibson got? That man has been slandered at any given moment about his new movie. I read exactly two reviews of "Apocalypto" and one called it "Mel's latest snuff film" and another gave away the ending. Both reviews were in major publications. Hollywood sabotages Gibson, Al Sharpton decries Richards, and the press is silent about the Rosie outburst. What a bunch of B.S.
Post by: charby on December 11, 2006, 01:29:04 PM
Post by: Twycross on December 11, 2006, 01:31:32 PM
Post by: gunsmith on December 11, 2006, 01:51:54 PM
done by a liberal.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 11, 2006, 02:00:05 PM
Yeah, anyone else would have been made to grovel and kow-tow. Hope I'm not hurting any Chinese people's feelings by using kow-tow there.
It's really funny how any other gore-fest movie is edgy and daring and bold. But let Gibson do it, and suddenly the press gets queasy.
Post by: Cosmoline on December 11, 2006, 03:12:27 PM
As far as Mel, the bulk of critics have given good reviews to his Mayan piece:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/apocalypto/
You can't expect something as violent and bizarre as a feature film in Mayan involving human sacrifice to get uniformly good reviews.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on December 11, 2006, 03:26:13 PM
You can't expect something as violent and bizarre as a feature film in Mayan involving human sacrifice to get uniformly good reviews.
You can if it's a good movie, which this one is.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 11, 2006, 04:35:59 PM
Post by: gunsmith on December 11, 2006, 04:36:47 PM
Quote
You can't expect something as violent and bizarre as a feature film in Mayan involving human sacrifice to get uniformly good reviews.
You could if you were Spielberg or Polanski.
but wait one minute! this is not the hate Mel thread this is the hate Rosie O stupid face thread!
Post by: gunsmith on December 11, 2006, 04:38:25 PM
with the liberals it tails I win heads we flip again.
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 11, 2006, 05:16:39 PM
Rosie did nothing wrong.
Yeah, anyone else would have been made to grovel and kow-tow. Hope I'm not hurting any Chinese people's feelings by using kow-tow there.
It's really funny how any other gore-fest movie is a edgy and daring and bold. But let Gibson do it, and suddenly the press gets queasy.
Yeah, anyone else would have been made to grovel and kow-tow. Hope I'm not hurting any Chinese people's feelings by using kow-tow there.
It's really funny how any other gore-fest movie is a edgy and daring and bold. But let Gibson do it, and suddenly the press gets queasy.
Did nothing wrong? I fail to see how her offensive "imitation" of Asian people ISN'T wrong. So if your kids said "ching chong ching chong" to an Asian kid you would tell them that it is okay? I used to kick people's asses all the time for that kind of stuff growing up.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 11, 2006, 05:42:02 PM
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 11, 2006, 05:54:58 PM
It was not an "offensive 'imitation' of Asian people." It was a pathetic attempt to sound like she was speaking Chinese. How else would you suggest that a comedian mimic a language she doesn't know? There's nothing sacrosanct about Chinese languages or Chinese people, and Rosie has every right to have a little fun with them. If anything, those who know Chinese should be laughing at her for sounding so silly. But being offended? At what?
You didn't answer my question, would you condone it if your kids had "a little fun" in that manner at school or church? Would you laugh and say, "nice language mimic son!" Do you think it would be funny if he pulled her eyes to the side as well to better "mimic"?
Post by: doczinn on December 11, 2006, 06:00:03 PM
As to the double standard, if it were anyone not identified as a raging leftist the media would be all over it.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 11, 2006, 06:17:55 PM
I have no kids, but it would depend on the relationship between my child and the Asian child. Does the other kid know that my kid is just joking, and does not intend disrespect? I don't think there's an Asian who's seen that clip who actually believed she meant any harm.
The face-distorting might be out of bounds, perhaps.
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 11, 2006, 06:27:05 PM
Daniel,
I have no kids, but it would depend on the relationship between my child and the Asian child. Does the other kid know that my kid is just joking, and does not intend disrespect? I don't think there's an Asian who's seen that clip who actually believed she meant any harm.
The face-distorting might be out of bounds, perhaps.
I have no kids, but it would depend on the relationship between my child and the Asian child. Does the other kid know that my kid is just joking, and does not intend disrespect? I don't think there's an Asian who's seen that clip who actually believed she meant any harm.
The face-distorting might be out of bounds, perhaps.
Fistful,
Yeah that's true, my friends and I joke around all the time. But you're definitely confirming that it is either a joke or disrespectful depending on the relationship involved. Rosie, as others have said, is clearly held to a double standard by the media. That is total B.S.
Also if the "ching chong" is okay, what's wrong with the face distorting? It would just be somebody mimicing an Asian person's face right?
And please don't speak for all Asians. I'm Asian, I'm offended.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 11, 2006, 07:33:13 PM
But if I try to give myself some eye-folds to look Asian, is that so bad? Is there something wrong with having eyes like that that you don't want to be reminded of it? Who has made you ashamed of your race? Be proud. Hey, I don't know. Maybe that's easy for a white guy to say. There's a movement afoot to shame me of my ancestry, so maybe I do. I suppose my point is just that we can't get past race until we get past race. Rosie implied that the Chinese language sounds funny. Well, of course it does to a native speaker of English.
Suppose I start talking in an affected accent and some person of Hispanic persuasion overhears it. "Why are you making fun of Latinos?" he demands.
"Whatever do you mean?" says I.
"You know what I mean, you were talking in some stupid voice, trying to sound like a Latino!"
"Sir," say I, in high dudgeon, "do you mean to imply that Latinos sound stupid?"
"Wha-no-ya-you sound stupid trying to talk like a Latino!"
"Well, what makes you think I was trying to talk like a Latino? Is it because you think Latinos talk funny, and you thought I was talking funny? Sir, I perceive you are of Latino extraction yourself. As such, you should be highly offended by your deeply offensive remarks."
"Whatever."
Post by: Vodka7 on December 11, 2006, 09:50:54 PM
Get over it. It's not like she said "IN CHINA NOW THEY'RE PROBABLY SAYING OH I'M A BAD DRIVER AND I CAN'T PRONOUNCE THE LETTER R. OH BY THE WAY DID YOU HEAR ABOUT DANNY DEVITO?" No one in Sweden got their undergarments knotted up over this guy, did they?
Post by: LadySmith on December 11, 2006, 10:48:11 PM
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 12, 2006, 02:34:58 AM
I'm speaking for humans, and as a human, I'm telling you that you shouldn't be offended. Humans shouldn't be so touchy about other humans finding their foreign ways a bit comical. Some languages sound really funny to those who don't know the language. Why shouldn't they? The only thing that really stands out about Rosie's bit is that it was unimaginative.
But if I try to give myself some eye-folds to look Asian, is that so bad? Is there something wrong with having eyes like that that you don't want to be reminded of it? Who has made you ashamed of your race? Be proud. Hey, I don't know. Maybe that's easy for a white guy to say. There's a movement afoot to shame me of my ancestry, so maybe I do. I suppose my point is just that we can't get past race until we get past race. Rosie implied that the Chinese language sounds funny. Well, of course it does to a native speaker of English.
Suppose I start talking in an affected accent and some person of Hispanic persuasion overhears it. "Why are you making fun of Latinos?" he demands.
"Whatever do you mean?" says I.
"You know what I mean, you were talking in some stupid voice, trying to sound like a Latino!"
"Sir," say I, in high dudgeon, "do you mean to imply that Latinos sound stupid?"
"Wha-no-ya-you sound stupid trying to talk like a Latino!"
"Well, what makes you think I was trying to talk like a Latino? Is it because you think Latinos talk funny, and you thought I was talking funny? Sir, I perceive you are of Latino extraction yourself. As such, you should be highly offended by your deeply offensive remarks."
"Whatever."
But if I try to give myself some eye-folds to look Asian, is that so bad? Is there something wrong with having eyes like that that you don't want to be reminded of it? Who has made you ashamed of your race? Be proud. Hey, I don't know. Maybe that's easy for a white guy to say. There's a movement afoot to shame me of my ancestry, so maybe I do. I suppose my point is just that we can't get past race until we get past race. Rosie implied that the Chinese language sounds funny. Well, of course it does to a native speaker of English.
Suppose I start talking in an affected accent and some person of Hispanic persuasion overhears it. "Why are you making fun of Latinos?" he demands.
"Whatever do you mean?" says I.
"You know what I mean, you were talking in some stupid voice, trying to sound like a Latino!"
"Sir," say I, in high dudgeon, "do you mean to imply that Latinos sound stupid?"
"Wha-no-ya-you sound stupid trying to talk like a Latino!"
"Well, what makes you think I was trying to talk like a Latino? Is it because you think Latinos talk funny, and you thought I was talking funny? Sir, I perceive you are of Latino extraction yourself. As such, you should be highly offended by your deeply offensive remarks."
"Whatever."
I certainly see your perspective. But on the other hand, you didn't have to grow up having kids make fun of you by calling you "gook", "chink", "hey can you speak Chinese?", "ching chong ching chong", "*bruce lee noises*", etc. Most of my childhood, people were telling me that I was somehow inferior. So when I hear a self-righteous hypocrite like Rosie say the same thing, I naturally get pissed.
Post by: El Tejon on December 12, 2006, 02:57:38 AM
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 12, 2006, 03:19:24 AM
Quote
But on the other hand, you didn't have to grow up having kids make fun of you by calling you "gook", "chink", "hey can you speak Chinese?", "ching chong ching chong", "*bruce lee noises*", etc. Most of my childhood, people were telling me that I was somehow inferior.
I thought so. Don't buy into it, brother. When and where did you grow up, if you don't mind my asking?
Post by: roo_ster on December 12, 2006, 04:33:15 AM
Rosie is getting a pass today because of her views and deviance from traditional norms. In the days of yore, it wouldn't even be an issue.
If we are all required to get in a moderate or high dudgeon over Rosie's imitation of sterotypical incomprehensible Chinese language, must we also ban the terms "gobbledygook" and "babel?" Gobbledygook is essentially what Rosie imitated and contains the (horrors!) word, "gook," so is twice-damned in the eyes of the easily-upwardly-dudgeoned.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 12, 2006, 04:37:48 AM
Post by: HankB on December 12, 2006, 05:07:33 AM
I've heard comedians use affected accents for hispanics, Jews, Norwegians (Sven & Ole jokes are popular in Minnesota), Indians, Irishmen, Southerners, Bostonians, Italians, (ever hear of Father Guido Sarducci?) and practically every other group that has an identifiable accent - it's pretty much standard in comedy.
And that's the point - it's meant as COMEDY, people, and doesn't fall into the same category as Michael Richards' rant or Mel Gibson's drunken slurs against Jews.
If accents - even fake and phony ones - are are off limits, then it's just another sign that political correctness has gone TOO far.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 12, 2006, 07:31:01 AM
Maybe some of us are too cavalier, though. Asians have been mistreated and ridiculed in the past, and I suppose they still are today. But at what point do we just move on? At what point does dwelling on it actually keep racial tension alive?
Post by: mtnbkr on December 12, 2006, 07:41:38 AM
Chris
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 12, 2006, 08:23:51 AM
Quote
But on the other hand, you didn't have to grow up having kids make fun of you by calling you "gook", "chink", "hey can you speak Chinese?", "ching chong ching chong", "*bruce lee noises*", etc. Most of my childhood, people were telling me that I was somehow inferior.
I thought so. Don't buy into it, brother. When and where did you grow up, if you don't mind my asking?I didn't buy into it...I usually just punched them
I'm 25 and I grew up in rural Pennsylvania, near West Virginia. I was the only non-white person in my entire school district for many years as far as I know.
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 12, 2006, 08:30:16 AM
The Swedish chef is a good point. I'm sure there are some Swedes who are offended by things like that, but we would recognize such people as being overly sensitive about their nationality.
Maybe some of us are too cavalier, though. Asians have been mistreated and ridiculed in the past, and I suppose they still are today. But at what point do we just move on? At what point does dwelling on it actually keep racial tension alive?
Maybe some of us are too cavalier, though. Asians have been mistreated and ridiculed in the past, and I suppose they still are today. But at what point do we just move on? At what point does dwelling on it actually keep racial tension alive?
I don't know if it has to do with sensitivity; in my opinion, it all depends on the intent. If we're laughing at our differences that is all good and even healthy to blur the racial lines. But when someone is mocking you or telling you that you are somehow 2nd class, then there is something wrong.
One example would be how rural white gunowners are portrayed by Jeff Foxworthy and the "media". Or how black people are depicted by Dave Chappelle and a KKK cartoon.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 12, 2006, 08:58:15 AM
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 12, 2006, 12:41:09 PM
What do you think was O'Donnel's intent?
Her intent was to mimic but it definitely comes off as mockery. What if she would have came on the show and said that there was an article in Black Enterprise magazine that said, "Aww sheet, dis be 'Danny Devito' fried chicken 'the View' ridin on dubs 'drunk' like a mothaf%^&%#"?
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 12, 2006, 01:39:59 PM
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 12, 2006, 04:23:57 PM
How would that be the same?
How is that not a poor comedic "interpretation" of black "language"?
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 12, 2006, 05:56:16 PM
She was NOT ascribing an unlettered ghetto dialect to a group of successful businesspeople. She was NOT talking like a two-bit pimp when she could have used standard English, which I suppose the writers at Black Enterprise use. ( I don't know, I can't recall ever reading that publication.)
Look, Rosie's joke was not about Chinese people. It was about trivial celebrity gossip being reported around the world, as if it mattered. Along the way, she tried to mimic Chinese with this ching-chong-ching bit. It sounds goofy, but that's because it has to. That's what Chinese sounds like to most Americans. Not because we hate Chinese people, but because the language is much different than ours, and not something we hear every day. I'm sure there's a lot of people in China who think English sounds funny. And if they don't, they probably should.
FWIW, I think Rosie could have thrown in some of those long, drawn-out dipthongs* that I seem to hear when I watch gung fu flicks. That's what I do, when I want to sound Asian. I'm an impressionist by nature, I'm afraid. I wouldn't do it on TV, but just because I wouldn't want to sound stupid, doing a bad impression of a language I don't know.
*Lest you think that's a racial slur:
Dipthong - a gliding monosyllabic speech sound (as the vowel combination at the end of toy) that starts at or near the articulatory position for one vowel and moves to or toward the position of another
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 12, 2006, 06:23:35 PM
Rosie O'Donnell was trying to recreate the sound of a completely foreign language she presumably doesn't know. Unless I'm mistaken, she doesn't speak Chinese, and can't be expected to actually know what it sounds like. All she knows is that it's a foreign language and therefore it sounds like babble to her untutored ears.
She was NOT ascribing an unlettered ghetto dialect to a group of successful businesspeople. She was NOT talking like a two-bit pimp when she could have used standard English, which I suppose the writers at Black Enterprise use. ( I don't know, I can't recall ever reading that publication.)
Look, Rosie's joke was not about Chinese people. It was about trivial celebrity gossip being reported around the world, as if it mattered. Along the way, she tried to mimic Chinese with this ching-chong-ching bit. It sounds goofy, but that's because it has to. That's what Chinese sounds like to most Americans. Not because we hate Chinese people, but because the language is much different than ours, and not something we hear every day. I'm sure there's a lot of people in China who think English sounds funny. And if they don't, they probably should.
FWIW, I think Rosie could have thrown in some of those long, drawn-out dipthongs* that I seem to hear when I watch gung fu flicks. That's what I do, when I want to sound Asian. I'm an impressionist by nature, I'm afraid. I wouldn't do it on TV, but just because I wouldn't want to sound stupid, doing a bad impression of a language I don't know.
*Lest you think that's a racial slur:
Dipthong - a gliding monosyllabic speech sound (as the vowel combination at the end of toy) that starts at or near the articulatory position for one vowel and moves to or toward the position of another
She was NOT ascribing an unlettered ghetto dialect to a group of successful businesspeople. She was NOT talking like a two-bit pimp when she could have used standard English, which I suppose the writers at Black Enterprise use. ( I don't know, I can't recall ever reading that publication.)
Look, Rosie's joke was not about Chinese people. It was about trivial celebrity gossip being reported around the world, as if it mattered. Along the way, she tried to mimic Chinese with this ching-chong-ching bit. It sounds goofy, but that's because it has to. That's what Chinese sounds like to most Americans. Not because we hate Chinese people, but because the language is much different than ours, and not something we hear every day. I'm sure there's a lot of people in China who think English sounds funny. And if they don't, they probably should.
FWIW, I think Rosie could have thrown in some of those long, drawn-out dipthongs* that I seem to hear when I watch gung fu flicks. That's what I do, when I want to sound Asian. I'm an impressionist by nature, I'm afraid. I wouldn't do it on TV, but just because I wouldn't want to sound stupid, doing a bad impression of a language I don't know.
*Lest you think that's a racial slur:
Dipthong - a gliding monosyllabic speech sound (as the vowel combination at the end of toy) that starts at or near the articulatory position for one vowel and moves to or toward the position of another
The only thing you're convincing me of is to quit posting on APS. With so many productive activities to choose from, I will not choose to argue that which cannot be solved online any longer. I'll stick to the technical portions of THR.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 12, 2006, 06:33:42 PM
So you DO have a thin skin.
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 12, 2006, 06:39:47 PM
So you DO have a thin skin.
No, you missed the part about "productive".
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 12, 2006, 08:07:16 PM
Post by: ...has left the building. on December 13, 2006, 02:26:03 AM
As you will, sir, but I won't take the blame for your leaving. I merely defended a bitter enemy that one time when she had done no wrong.
It definitely isn't personal at all, I'd gladly have a beer with you any day. But while typing a response I realized I had many other things that I should be doing.
Post by: 280plus on December 13, 2006, 02:53:17 AM
Post by: Mannlicher on December 13, 2006, 04:34:27 AM
Post by: cordex on December 13, 2006, 05:14:01 AM
I've only met Mr. Flory in person once, but he's a stand-up guy with a lot to contribute. We're poorer for him choosing to spend his time elsewhere. (Quite possibly "poorer" in a literal sense as well, if he's still doing what he was studying when I met him.)
Post by: Eleven Mike on December 13, 2006, 06:40:10 AM
Quote
With so many productive activities to choose from, I will not choose to argue that which cannot be solved online any longer.
It took him 700 posts to discern the nature of arguments on controversial topics - that they usually don't go anywhere?
Post by: Mannlicher on December 13, 2006, 09:25:34 AM
Quote
With so many productive activities to choose from, I will not choose to argue that which cannot be solved online any longer.
It took him 700 posts to discern the nature of arguments on controversial topics - that they usually don't go anywhere? yeah, we seem to have a number of posters that are educated beyond their intelligence.
Post by: 280plus on December 13, 2006, 09:53:25 AM
"People who think they are right all the time are annoying to those of us who are."
Post by: wingnutx on December 13, 2006, 11:37:04 AM
Quote
It has come to our attention that in a recent broadcast of The Muppet Show, co-host "Swedish Chef" tried to mimic the Swedish language by uttering repeated phrases of Børk! Børk! Børk!"
We feel strongly that it is our responsibility to call attention to what we consider a mockery of the Swedish language and, in effect, a perpetuation of stereotypes of Scandinavean Americans as foreigners or second-class citizens. The use of the distorted phrases is insulting to the Swedish and Swedish Americans and gives the impression that they are a group that is substandard to English-speaking people.
We find it especially disturbing that this incident comes from a well-loved personality and a television program aired on a respected network.
The Swedish American Journalists Association is happy to make its resources available to ensure that both news and entertainment media always remain cautious about the use of sensitive or derogatory material in their broadcasts. We also hope that Mr. Hensen address this issue and apologize to her viewers, especially the Swedish and Swedish Americans who have been greatly insulted by this broadcast segment.
Bjorn Fjordborg
Executive Director
Swedish American Journalists Association
PS- He actually sounds less like a Swede and more like a dirty Norweigan
We feel strongly that it is our responsibility to call attention to what we consider a mockery of the Swedish language and, in effect, a perpetuation of stereotypes of Scandinavean Americans as foreigners or second-class citizens. The use of the distorted phrases is insulting to the Swedish and Swedish Americans and gives the impression that they are a group that is substandard to English-speaking people.
We find it especially disturbing that this incident comes from a well-loved personality and a television program aired on a respected network.
The Swedish American Journalists Association is happy to make its resources available to ensure that both news and entertainment media always remain cautious about the use of sensitive or derogatory material in their broadcasts. We also hope that Mr. Hensen address this issue and apologize to her viewers, especially the Swedish and Swedish Americans who have been greatly insulted by this broadcast segment.
Bjorn Fjordborg
Executive Director
Swedish American Journalists Association
PS- He actually sounds less like a Swede and more like a dirty Norweigan
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 13, 2006, 11:44:40 AM
Post by: wingnutx on December 13, 2006, 11:52:31 AM
Post by: Antibubba on December 13, 2006, 08:37:15 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 14, 2006, 03:07:29 AM
Is it? That sounds delicous.
Oh, come on, I made that up. If it becomes a hit, I demand royalties.
Post by: cordex on December 14, 2006, 05:32:04 AM
Quote
PS- He actually sounds less like a Swede and more like a dirty Norweigan
My grandpa used to tell my dad:"Der's dis story dat dey used to tell about ten-tousandt Svedes, chased true da veeds by von Norvegian. I tell you it isn't true! It vas von blind and LAME Norvegian dat chased dem ten-tousandt Svedes!"
I've got a first-generation Swedish coworker who thought it was funny because he'd always heard a slightly different version.
Post by: Lee on December 14, 2006, 06:51:16 AM
Post by: wingnutx on December 14, 2006, 07:13:38 AM
Anyway, I hate Rosie but she's done nothing wrong here.
Now I'm going to go watch "Samurai Stockbroker" on my John Belushi DVD.
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 14, 2006, 07:17:42 AM