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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: T.O.M. on March 03, 2017, 07:41:10 PM

Title: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: T.O.M. on March 03, 2017, 07:41:10 PM
Got a call from a buddy telling me that I might want to think about going against my personal policy and buying a Colt 1911 on a credit card, because the company is circling the drain, and it looks really bad this time.  Massive layoffs,  including the custom shop where they make the SAAs.  Anyone else hearing tales of the end coming for Colt?  If true, I'll be saddened.  Growing up, it was Smith and Colt competing for top of the handgun market, with Ruger in 3rd.  Always wanted one of each, especially a Colt DA revolver.  May have to count on the collector's market to make that happen...
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Fly320s on March 03, 2017, 07:53:53 PM
It is all over the Facebook.  No more information than what you have, but it doesn't look good.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: lee n. field on March 03, 2017, 08:19:39 PM
Got a call from a buddy telling me that I might want to think about going against my personal policy and buying a Colt 1911 on a credit card, because the company is circling the drain, and it looks really bad this time.  Massive layoffs,  including the custom shop where they make the SAAs.  Anyone else hearing tales of the end coming for Colt?  If true, I'll be saddened.  Growing up, it was Smith and Colt competing for top of the handgun market, with Ruger in 3rd.  Always wanted one of each, especially a Colt DA revolver.  May have to count on the collector's market to make that happen...

Saw it, yeah.  A couple different sources on the Book of Faces posting the same blog post detailing it, from what looked like an inside source.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: MillCreek on March 03, 2017, 08:36:41 PM
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/03/03/breaking-colt-lays-off-custom-shop-director-employees-company-rumored-gutted/

For those of us who do not have it on our Facebook feed.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 03, 2017, 10:03:28 PM
And yet Colt had the usual huge display at the SHOT Show, what appeared to be the usual number of people staffing their exhibit, and everyone I talked to at Colt seemed optimistic and talking about new models soon to be released.

I don't get it.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Regolith on March 03, 2017, 10:35:17 PM
Ian McCollum over at Forgotten Weapons just did a pretty good video overview of the history Colt company last week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_TxE1d9HY

Kind of fills in the blanks about why this is happening. A history of being sold, reacquired, split, and variously screwed around with and a lack of innovation is doing them in.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Parker Dean on March 03, 2017, 10:41:02 PM
Could also be the opening moves of selling the company by making the books look good for a while. Why destroying a company's institutional knowledge in favor of a few months of accounting numbers still works on potential buyers is beyond me.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: RoadKingLarry on March 03, 2017, 10:42:19 PM
With the recent history of exploding demand the only possible explanation is piss poor management.
Damned shame.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Andiron on March 03, 2017, 10:44:30 PM
might have to grab that 700 dollar 6920 at this point,  just for the hell of it.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 03, 2017, 11:21:22 PM
With the recent history of exploding demand the only possible explanation is piss poor management.
Damned shame.

Agreed. They screwed the dealers. Somewhere mid-2016 Colt embarked on a new policy that they would only allow sales to authorized, stocking dealers. The minimum order to become a stocking dealer was "only" ten firearms. I don't know what gun shops pay for Colts from the distributors, but I've heard the markup is around 50%. So if the average selling price of a group of ten guns is $900, the shop needs to lay out $6,000 just be get in the game. And it means they'll have ten COLT pistols on the shelf, which could take a small shop years to sell. I deal with a couple of small gun shops -- one is a one-man operation, the other is two one-man operations sharing a storefront. In years past, if I wanted a Colt I could tell them what model and they would order it for me from one of their distributors.

Now? The distributors can't sell to them because they aren't stocking dealers. As far as I know, there are only two in my entire state, neither is anywhere near where I live, and neither is a shop I want to buy from. Considering that Colt was selling every pistol (and revolver, for those who make that distinction) they could churn out, changing the marketing system like that makes absolutely zero sense to me. There are a couple of current Colt 1911s I was interested in, but I'm not going to forsake my friends at the local shops and drive over an hour to haggle with a robber baron who treats customers like dirt half the time anyway. Sorry, Colt, but you cut me off -- I didn't cut you off.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: RoadKingLarry on March 03, 2017, 11:28:44 PM
Yeah, if I want a over-rated,  over priced 1911 I'll just buy another Kimber, odds are far better that at least they'll be around if I need warranty work.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: K Frame on March 04, 2017, 07:05:26 AM
Colt has routinely been circling the drain every year or so since before I started writing for American Rifleman in 1990.

The AA2000 fiasco almost sunk them. The assault weapons ban almost sunk them. A butterfly flapping its wings in Tahiti regularly brings them to the brink of receivership.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: French G. on March 04, 2017, 07:16:23 AM
No real innovation, stayed trapped in regulatory hell of a state and at one point had the AR market cornered. Now a foreign country company sets up shop in South Carolina to supply the government with M-4s. That could have been Colt.

I only own one, a series 70. May inherit an officer's model. Wonder if my gold Colt cufflinks go up in value now?
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: HankB on March 04, 2017, 11:18:46 AM
Years ago, I had a Colt 1911 Government Model Jammamatic.

I bought it new, with full warranty.

It went back to Colt for repairs - their way of dealing with it was to let it gather dust on a shelf for a month or two, then send it back in original jammamatic form.

Repeatedly. Went through this cycle THREE times before I realized they were toying with me.

A pox on Colt's entire house and the only sadness I have is that they and their worthless, incompetent workers weren't out on the street years ago.  
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: 230RN on March 04, 2017, 11:36:31 AM
^ They're sometimes sensitive to bullet style.  Original design was for 230RN bullets.

Terry, 230RN

( :D )
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: dm1333 on March 04, 2017, 12:17:00 PM
Meh!  Plenty of companies out there making 1911s and ARs.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: HankB on March 04, 2017, 12:53:37 PM
^ They're sometimes sensitive to bullet style.  Original design was for 230RN bullets.

Terry, 230RN

( :D )
With 230 grain hardball - tried 3 brands! - that wretched Colt Jammamatic would usually jam 2 or 3 times per magazine. (Yes, tried different Colt magazines.)
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: 230RN on March 04, 2017, 01:01:53 PM
I'm not sure about big heavy autos like the 1911, but apparently semis can be sensitive to hold.

I got a PF-9, would jam on every third shot or so and I waxed snotty about it several times on here and just about everywhere.  It was almost fun to bitch about it.  I called it my two-shot deringer with a handy compartment for four extra cartridges.

This, disunirregardless of bullet style, weight, ammo brand, or magazine.

Gave it to a son, and he says he has no problem with it.  His hands are just as big and meaty as mine.

Must be planet alignment or something.  

Go figure.

Terry, 230RN
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Andiron on March 04, 2017, 02:46:10 PM


Repeatedly. Went through this cycle THREE times before I realized they were toying with me.

A pox on Colt's entire house and the only sadness I have is that they and their worthless, incompentent workers weren't out on the street years ago. 

UAW shop,  go figure.  I hope they all starve.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: lee n. field on March 04, 2017, 04:46:54 PM
With 230 grain hardball - tried 3 brands! - that wretched Colt Jammamatic would usually jam 2 or 3 times per magazine. (Yes, tried different Colt magazines.)

And yet, my cheapo Rock Island GI eats everything, very reliably.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: HankB on March 04, 2017, 05:27:52 PM
I'm not sure about big heavy autos like the 1911, but apparently semis can be sensitive to hold.

I got a PF-9, would jam on every third shot or so and I waxed snotty about it several times on here and just about everywhere.  It was almost fun to bitch about it.  I called it my two-shot deringer with a handy compartment for four extra cartridges.

This, disunirregardless of bullet style, weight, ammo brand, or magazine.

Gave it to a son, and he says he has no problem with it.  His hands are just as big and meaty as mine.

Must be planet alignment or something.  

Go figure.

Terry, 230RN
My SW1911Sc works fine with everything I feed it. So does my Les Baer Premier II. I even have an old Colt National Match that has always run fine. But that Colt Gov't Jammamatic wouldn't run fine for me or anyone else who tried it.

It's not that it had a problem - ANY manufacturer can turn out a substandard gun. Good manufacturers will FIX their errors. My problem with Colt is that even on a new gun, well within the warranty period - THOSE <EXPLETIVE DELETEDS> WOULDN'T FIX THE <EXPLETIVE DELETED> thing.

<EXPLETIVE DELETED> them. Let Colt's employees get jobs flipping burgers or sweeping floors - MAYBE they can handle that . . . with training and close supervision.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: 230RN on March 04, 2017, 06:31:42 PM
And yet, my cheapo Rock Island GI eats everything, very reliably.

Ditto here on Rock Island.  So good I invested ~$300 on a LaserGrip sight for it. Also ditto with an ancient Colt 1911 commercial model I had.

I agree, it's the non-fix fix that bothered me with the PF-9.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: RoadKingLarry on March 04, 2017, 07:07:39 PM
I'm not sure about big heavy autos like the 1911, but apparently semis can be sensitive to hold.

I got a PF-9, would jam on every third shot or so and I waxed snotty about it several times on here and just about everywhere.  It was almost fun to bitch about it.  I called it my two-shot deringer with a handy compartment for four extra cartridges.

This, disunirregardless of bullet style, weight, ammo brand, or magazine.

Gave it to a son, and he says he has no problem with it.  His hands are just as big and meaty as mine.

Must be planet alignment or something.  

Go figure.

Terry, 230RN

I can verify that with the PF-9. Friend of mine had one, myself and another friend were down at my backyard range one afternoon, when the owner was shooting it he got a jam every 2nd or 3rd shot. When either I or my other friend shot, it would perform flawlessly magazine after magazine. Hand it back to the owner and back to jamming. He sold it and bought a Glock, reports were that it was also a jamming piece of crap.

I can also testify to the reliability of Rock Island 1911s I've got a full size GI and a compact GI both eat anything I feed them, including some very slightly out of spec hand loads (Lee cast RN) that occasionally choke my Kimber.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: lee n. field on March 04, 2017, 07:17:05 PM
Ditto here on Rock Island.  So good I invested ~$300 on a LaserGrip sight for it. Also ditto with an ancient Colt 1911 commercial model I had.

I agree, it's the non-fix fix that bothered me with the PF-9.

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses, divest yourself of something, and move on.  I've done this a few times with guns.  More than a few times.  

I have a personal rule that I don't want to keep a gun if I'd be uneasy (for quality and reliability reasons) with it being my last gun.  I'm pretty much there now.   Even my Taurus snub is in (though I'll upgrade if I can finagle it.)    In 2015 I divested myself of 3 guns I'd lost confidence in, or didn't care for anymore, and in each case upgraded for not much more money to much better hardware.  My PF-9 was one of them, replaced by an XDS9.

A real Colt 1911 should be easy to move.

Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: 230RN on March 05, 2017, 09:28:20 AM

............

I have a personal rule that I don't want to keep a gun if I'd be uneasy ...with it being my last gun.  

...........


A good way of putting it.  I'll have to steal that from you with neither compensation nor recognition.

Terry
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Blakenzy on March 05, 2017, 03:11:40 PM
Ian McCollum over at Forgotten Weapons just did a pretty good video overview of the history Colt company last week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_TxE1d9HY

Kind of fills in the blanks about why this is happening. A history of being sold, reacquired, split, and variously screwed around with and a lack of innovation is doing them in.

Very timely!

Colt's spirit got broken. Put it down already.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: Devonai on March 06, 2017, 09:08:31 AM
Whether or not the current gubernatorial team has any responsibility for this (final nail in the coffin, etc), I hope Connecticut voters take it out on them.  Of course, the Dunkin Donuts Field fiasco might do that.

I'm ambivalent about Colt products.  I had a AR-15A2 HBAR years ago that worked fine.  Never delved into their 1911s.  In the NG most of our Frankenrifles were a hodgepodge of FN lowers and Colt uppers.
Title: Re: Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for Colt.
Post by: AJ Dual on March 06, 2017, 09:25:13 AM
I doubled my money on the 1990's vintage Winchester .44 Mag Trapper on Gunbroker when Winchester went Tango Uniform.

I'll have to keep an eye on Colt values if the same happens to them. I've got a '96 ban-era "Lightweight Match Target" AR, I've been "meh" on it even after de-banning it somewhat with a 6 pos telescoping stock and a Vortex flash hider, because it's an A2 with the forged-in carry handle, and then there's the weird ban-era Colt pins and the block behind the FCG.

I'll have to make sure all my old A2 furniture is around, and get an A2 birdcage flash hider for it so I can make it as complete as possible just in case.