Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MillCreek on March 24, 2017, 04:05:18 PM
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Speaker Ryan pulled the bill from the House, presumably due to not enough votes to pass it. Now what?
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Reboot.
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Well since a bunch of R's ran on the premise of repealing O-care they better get something done in the next year or so, otherwise it could be very ugly for them and us come 2018.
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Perhaps they can pass Rand Paul's bill ??
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Senator Lee said that the parliamentarian suggested that more of Obamacare could be repealed by reconciliation than in this bill.
Why not do that?
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Senator Lee said that the parliamentarian suggested that more of Obamacare could be repealed by reconciliation than in this bill.
Why not do that?
Because the RINO leadership really does not want to repeal ObamaCare.
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Perhaps they can pass Rand Paul's bill ??
That makes too much sense.
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Trump has stated if it didn't pass he was done for the year, leaving Ocare in place, and he would be moving on to tax cuts. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
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My understanding is getting this passed made the planned tax cuts easier - the reduced medicaid spending helped balance things out. Not sure how linked they really are though.
I still don't understand why H.R. 3762 (http://www.speaker.gov/press-release/for-the-first-time-congress-will-send-an-obamacare-repeal-bill-to-the-presidents-desk) wasn't the starting point - they already passed it!
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We need someone to help the Repubs learn to work and play better with each other........
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Trump has stated if it didn't pass he was done for the year, leaving Ocare in place, and he would be moving on to tax cuts. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
As we have just witnessed, Congress doesn't necessarily listen to what Trump wants to do.
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What bothers me about this whole thing is it has shown how fragmented Congress actually is. A coalition for this a coalition for that and each one wanting their own little (or big) slice of the pie. If anyone ever thought that these people were acting in the best interest of the country I hope they have now had a reality check and realize they are mostly in it for themselves IMO.
I would have forced the vote, that way there would have been a hard record of those who did not vote for the bill and those that did. With them going home for a week or so maybe the ones who voted no could catch some grief from the people they represent, esp if from a Trump supporting area.
bob
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Because the RINO leadership really does not want to repeal ObamaCare.
Bingo.
They were willing to vote to repeal Obamacare - repeatedly! - when Obama was in office, KNOWING the repeal wouldn't become law.
Now - when a passed repeal WILL become law - they think "Oh, crap, we really don't want this! How can we screw things up to prevent passage?"
Expletive.
Expletive.
String of expletives.
Come 2018, I hope a LOT of the RINOs get primaried. (By decent candidates, not lunatics.)
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the statist bureaucrats love their power, the radlibs think this will bring "single payer" which I think means
socialized medicine ( honestly I do not even know )...
I have a lot of stupid old friends I keep up with on facebook, they're celebrating.
I'm pretty bummed out, it means more fines and less jobs- more part time jobs - as if running from one job to another gives you more time or money?
maybe it is time to join libertarians or constitution, I've got to wonder if we can fix the gun issue with this crowd.
social media is overwhelmingly liberal and has ruined the effectiveness of the gun forums.
is trump a manchurian candidate after all?
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An interesting perspective ... :old:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/25/healthcare-controls-and-the-benefits-of-the-blame-game/
In the final hours prior to the healthcare debacle, the billionaire Koch Brothers sent a warning to the House Freedom Caucus that they’d better hold the line and kill the ObamaCare repeal or replacement bill, or else.
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It was a bad bill, it deserved to be killed. Hopefully they will go back and write a better one or just you know repeal ACA in its entirety then write a better bill.
As for Trump, it really doesn't matter wht he says. Presidents don't pass laws, the legislature does. They can write a new bill with or without him and put it one his desk to sign or Veto with or without his support or permission.
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It was a bad bill, it deserved to be killed.
This. In spades.
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It was a bad bill, it deserved to be killed. Hopefully they will go back and write a better one or just you know repeal ACA in its entirety then write a better bill.
I think there's too big of a "repeal AND replace" faction to do that. I'm half a foot in their camp in that I don't want the disruption of TWO major reforms, so I want the replacement in place with the repeal.
Or, to be honest, keep the few good bits and just pass a reform on top of the reform.
As for Trump, it really doesn't matter wht he says. Presidents don't pass laws, the legislature does. They can write a new bill with or without him and put it one his desk to sign or Veto with or without his support or permission.
Bingo. I haven't read a single article mentioning Trump or his cabinet being consulted on the replacement, introducing any parts to the replacement, nothing.
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I'm not getting the "Replace" part of the argument. Why does it need to be replaced with anything ??
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I'm not getting the "Replace" part of the argument. Why does it need to be replaced with anything ??
It doesn't, but the big-government people want more government.
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What bothers me about this whole thing is it has shown how fragmented Congress actually is. A coalition for this a coalition for that...
As Rush pointed out the other day, the Republicans have the Freedom Caucus, Tea Party (not official), and a bunch of other groups. The Democrat Party has the Black Democrat Caucus, and that's it. When it comes to legislation, every Democrat walks in lockstep, and never breaks ranks. That's why they can push through something as radical as Obamacare, and Republicans can't even settle on a revamp that's a compromise.
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Diversity of opinion is usually perceived to be a good thing, yet the media portray it as failure in a political context.
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For once I agree with the New York Times and Maureen Dowd:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/25/opinion/sunday/donald-this-i-will-tell-you.html
You sold yourself as the businessman who could shake things up and make Washington work again. Instead, you got worked over by the Republican leadership and the business community, who set you up to do their bidding.
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You got played.
Trump needs to (a) understand that Paul Ryan is the enemy; and (b) get rid of Bannon.
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I'm not getting the "Replace" part of the argument. Why does it need to be replaced with anything ??
To be perfectly honest, a lot of people managed to get healthcare under Obamacare that previously didn't, and all the scarey literature out there has them as losing their healthcare if Obamacare is simply repealed, which most of them won't like, and people are saying would cause them to vote democrat.
So it's a lot like touching social security. Threaten to take away people's retirement check and they get pissed.
As for me, here's my thoughts:
1. The state of healthcare BEFORE Obamacare was equally unacceptable as Obamacare, just in different ways.
2. The situation between different systems (Pre-Obama, Obama, theoretical Republican Replacement) are each different enough to have substantial market distortions. I'd like to avoid too many market distortions.
Personally, keeping in mind that I'm not a lawyer, and there are better ways to state this:
1. Require healthcare providers to provide estimates and price sheets.
2. Pass legislation that encourages charging by illness/syndrome, rather than by procedure.
3. Procedures that fail cannot be charged for. (insert legaleze defining failure)
4. Healthcare savings accounts for everybody. Possibly as modifications to IRAs.
5. Find some way to toss some initial money into said savings accounts for young adults.
6. Really reform the USDA.
7. Health insurance can be sold across state lines
8. People are allowed to buy drugs from overseas. Encourage formation of a watchdog company that makes sure what people are ordering is what they're actually getting.
9. Allow government organizations tasked with buying drugs for various reasons to actually negotiate the prices they pay for said drugs.
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Here's one: Open up GEHA to all US citizens at the government rate.
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Listening to NPR today, basically this bill was only polling at 17% favorable. In townhall meetings citizens were bombarding politions with things they liked in Obamacare. Like preexisting conditions and keeping children on until they were 26, etc.
Obamacare isn't going anywhere for a while because they want to be reelected.
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Listening to NPR today, basically this bill was only polling at 17% favorable. In townhall meetings citizens were bombarding politions with things they liked in Obamacare. Like preexisting conditions and keeping children on until they were 26, etc.
Obamacare isn't going anywhere for a while because they want to be reelected.
That's kind of what I expected. It's like Congress and gun control.
People on average hate congress, but like their own representative. By the same token, you get a lot of people who will poll for "more gun control", but when you ask them about specific measures they mostly want the situation as current.
People on average actually like a lot of the provisions in Obamacare, not recognizing that it's the same provisions that make it so expensive.
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What was in the repeal Obamacare bill the Republicans passed every year for the past six years?
I like this one: http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/index.ssf/2017/03/rep_mo_brooks_files_bill_to_re.html
Simple, right to the point -- "Off with its head."
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Simple, right to the point -- "Off with its head."
Now factor in the townhalls and concerned citizens speaking up that they don't want to lose their insurance.
Suddenly they aren't pandering with repeal attempts that were sure to fail, they have to avoid pissing off too many people and thus losing their seats in the midterms.
So they need to come up with a repeal&replace that doesn't piss off too many people.
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Well, what they need to take into account is that the people they should worry about keeping happy are the people who voted for them, not the loud-mouthed professional whiners who show up at "town halls."
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Well, what they need to take into account is that the people they should worry about keeping happy are the people who voted for them, not the loud-mouthed professional whiners who show up at "town halls."
There's some differences in perception of reality here.
Personally, I think that "professional whiners" are probably also voters, and I disagree that most of them are "professional" IE paid, at whining.
I'm not going to say that all of them voted for the politician who held the town hall, but many of them probably did.
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The state of healthcare BEFORE Obamacare was equally unacceptable as Obamacare, just in different ways.
I'm not sure about equally, but still this is something I'm amazed people forget. Obamacare didn't come out of nowhere - a large segment of the country felt something needed to be done to address lack of access & cost of medical care. I'm not saying Obamacare is what the country wanted at all, but they definitely wanted something to change. It would appear we're back in a similar state - no agreement on what to do but a widespread sentiment that what we have is not working great.
Turns out Boehner was pretty accurate in his predictions a month ago:
"In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once,” Boehner said. “And all this happy talk that went on in November and December and January about repeal, repeal, repeal—yeah, we'll do replace, replace—I started laughing, because if you pass repeal without replace, first, anything that happens is your fault. You broke it.”
"And secondly, as I told some of the Republican leaders when they asked, I said, if you pass repeal without replace you'll never pass replace, because they will never ever agree on what the bill should be. Perfect always becomes the enemy of the good,” Boehner said.
"Most of the Affordable Care Act, in the framework, is going to stay there: coverage for kids up to age 26, covering those with preexisting conditions. All of that's going to be there. Subsidies for those who can't afford it, who aren't on Medicaid, who I call the working poor, subsidies for them will be there," Boehner said.
I'd be willing to bet he's enjoying not having his old job right now.
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A major factor in the cost of health care that DIDN'T get addressed by Obamacare is tort reform. From what I understand, a big chunk of the cost of doing business for doctors is professional malpractice insurance. The cost of such insurance is driven up by feel-good juries who award "pain and suffereing" damages for medical slip-ups that are far out of line with the actual damages suffered by the patients, and the rationale is that "the insurance will cover it." Well, yes, it will ... but that money has to come from somewhere.
Health care reform without tort reform is an oxymoron.
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A major factor in the cost of health care that DIDN'T get addressed by Obamacare is tort reform. From what I understand, a big chunk of the cost of doing business for doctors is professional malpractice insurance. The cost of such insurance is driven up by feel-good juries who award "pain and suffereing" damages for medical slip-ups that are far out of line with the actual damages suffered by the patients, and the rationale is that "the insurance will cover it." Well, yes, it will ... but that money has to come from somewhere.
Health care reform without tort reform is an oxymoron.
Speaking as the guy who does medical malpractice insurance, this is generally not nearly as big a factor as Big Liability would have you believe. For the typical physician and looking at the nation as a whole, the cost of malpractice insurance works out to around 3% or so of total revenue and around 1% of their income. The average physician spends way more as a percentage of total revenue/income on wages/salaries, taxes, rent and office supplies. The cost of insurance has dropped significantly over the past decade primarily due to lower numbers of claims and better investment performance for the insurers. I am paying way less than I used to to buy malpractice insurance for my facilities and providers.
The Republicans have talked a lot about tort reform over the years if they ever gained control of the Congress and White House, but I will be interested to see if they actually deliver anything meaningful.
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Trump has been taking enormous heat for tweeting that the Freedom Club Republicans and the Dems should be defeated in 2018. But now the Freedom Club Republicans are presenting ideas to improve the bill and help it move forward. Was his tweet a way to push the Freedom Club into working with him on the bill?
Every time Trump tweets something that makes everyone scream that he's insane, his tweets either work or are proven true: Obama administration spying on the Trump team, Sweden having immigrant problems, his complaint about the cost of the new Air Force One, his criticisms of various companies considering moving outside the US, etc.
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It would be nice to go back to the hmo plan we had for years but on the other hand, when my wife's company got bought out last year, fourth time in five years, I would have no coverage now without this crap put me in debt ocare.
I think true competition would help more then tort reform to lower the prices, but until you can get the lobby's out of D.C. It is not going to happen.
They call the NRA the 800 pound gorilla in the room these guys are the size of the fing Death Star.
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It would be nice to go back to the hmo plan we had for years but on the other hand, when my wife's company got bought out last year, fourth time in five years, I would have no coverage now without this crap put me in debt ocare.
I think true competition would help more then tort reform to lower the prices, but until you can get the lobby's out of D.C. It is not going to happen.
They call the NRA the 800 pound gorilla in the room these guys are the size of the fing Death Star.
Competition of low co-pays, zero/low deductible and health care facility can't bill clients directly with health insurance would lower prices a lot.
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Trump has been taking enormous heat for tweeting that the Freedom Club Republicans and the Dems should be defeated in 2018. But now the Freedom Club Republicans are presenting ideas to improve the bill and help it move forward. Was his tweet a way to push the Freedom Club into working with him on the bill?
Every time Trump tweets something that makes everyone scream that he's insane, his tweets either work or are proven true: Obama administration spying on the Trump team, Sweden having immigrant problems, his complaint about the cost of the new Air Force One, his criticisms of various companies considering moving outside the US, etc.
I understood changes were proposed before the bill was pulled, but Ryan wasn't allowing any of them. It could be the Freedom Caucus is just publicizing their own ideas more widely in response to Trump.
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Trump has been taking enormous heat for tweeting that the Freedom Club Republicans and the Dems should be defeated in 2018. But now the Freedom Club Republicans are presenting ideas to improve the bill and help it move forward. Was his tweet a way to push the Freedom Club into working with him on the bill?
Every time Trump tweets something that makes everyone scream that he's insane, his tweets either work or are proven true: Obama administration spying on the Trump team, Sweden having immigrant problems, his complaint about the cost of the new Air Force One, his criticisms of various companies considering moving outside the US, etc.
IMO one area he excels is in not letting the media control the conversation and trying to appease them. Instead he plays the game right back, and usually works damn well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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IMO one area he excels is in not letting the media control the conversation and trying to appease them. Instead he plays the game right back, and usually works damn well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The sad thing is how few Republicans even attempt to do that.
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There is a serious problem with inflated medical billing and prices... no surprise since most patients don't even look at a bill. This should be addressed... no charging people different prices based on insurance or lack thereof.
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There is a serious problem with inflated medical billing and prices... no surprise since most patients don't even look at a bill. This should be addressed... no charging people different prices based on insurance or lack thereof.
That's pretty much what I've proposed - price sheets need to be public and up front. None of this "We'll figure out what to charge you a couple weeks after providing services"