Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on April 04, 2017, 05:05:48 PM
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Time to renew our search for a pirate-hunting mother ship.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/world/africa/somalia-pirates.html
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80' Elco PT boat or we're just screwing around.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft33%2FAJ_Dual%2F5D778729-A088-4403-A83A-2361BDEFF95A-8697-000010CBCCD1EC12_zps6qpdrhax.jpeg&hash=3560064d72938d2906334eea8bc96e03351e7d0e) (http://s156.photobucket.com/user/AJ_Dual/media/5D778729-A088-4403-A83A-2361BDEFF95A-8697-000010CBCCD1EC12_zps6qpdrhax.jpeg.html)
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80' Elco PT boat or we're just screwing around.
I was thinking more like a surplus Jeep carrier. I think there are still a couple in the mothball fleet in Washington.
Even a destroyer escort would do the job, though.
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In the past, pirates have hit just about anything that floated: yachts, freighters, dhows, sailboats, mammoth oil tankers — even an American naval ship, by mistake. But the piracy heydays were thought to be over. Until now, the problem seemed to have disappeared.
:facepalm:
As long as Somalia and Yemen are in the shape they are today and groups like Al Shabaab are around piracy is going to be a problem there.
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:facepalm:
As long as Somalia and Yemen are in the shape they are today and groups like Al Shabaab are around piracy is going to be a problem there.
Maybe we should hang out a bunch of American flags, and meddle with the GIS database so North Korea has the coordinates for Mogadishu associated with Seattle.
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I was thinking more like a surplus Jeep carrier. I think there are still a couple in the mothball fleet in Washington.
Even a destroyer escort would do the job, though.
All the Jeep carriers were scrapped long ago. Only 4 "modern" fleet carriers there now, Ranger, Constellation,Kitty Hawk, Kennedy.
Pretty much all the"Gun"ships are gone. Wed have to go overseas or special order if we want cannons/guns instead of missiles.
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All the Jeep carriers were scrapped long ago. Only 4 "modern" fleet carriers there now, Ranger, Constellation,Kitty Hawk, Kennedy.
Pretty much all the"Gun"ships are gone. Wed have to go overseas or special order if we want cannons/guns instead of missiles.
Ranger is gone now, too. Bremerton is down to three.
So maybe an amphibious assault ship? They're basically about the same as a WW2 jeep carrier. Or -- what are the smaller ships with a large helicopter landing pad on the fantail?
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For all the world policing we do, I'm not sure why that area isn't a SEAL playground. No one gives a *expletive deleted*it about somalis, and it would be good practice. And a philanthropic gesture..
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What if we just barrow the Abe and the rest of the battle group for a while.
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If ever there was just cause for a return of the Letter of Marque this is it.
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http://www.oceanmarine.com/detail.cfm?180ft-Steel-Research-Vessel---13342&product_id=13342&category_current=1&category_current_sub=42
trawl winch could be modified for the launching/recovery of an armed RIB
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http://www.oceanmarine.com/detail.cfm?180ft-Steel-Research-Vessel---13342&product_id=13342&category_current=1&category_current_sub=42
trawl winch could be modified for the launching/recovery of an armed RIB
13kts. Could put you at a disadvantage if their RIBS get frisky while ours was out. Also leaves you unable to exploit piracy reports unless you happen to be close by.
Something like this (http://www.oceanmarine.com/detail.cfm?110ft-Crew-Pilot-Boat---13842&product_id=13842&category_current=19&category_current_sub=52), however, would probably work pretty well and already has a stern ramp for RIB launching.*
But if we can get a little financing $5mil will get you a pretty solid purpose built patrol craft (http://www.seaboats.net/new-build-37.5m-patrol-vessel-xidp1128564.html) another couple hundred grand in the right Eastern European country will get some cannon for it as well.
I wonder what a La Combatantant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Combattante_class_fast_attack_craft)goes for. They seem to be the default go-to fast attack boat over hear in the NAG.
*apropos of nothing at all, My current Master's License definitely covers a ship that size.
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Hadda look up RIB:
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&tid=2200&ct=4
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So this thread is NOT about your ren faire costume?
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No but there will be wenchs
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So maybe an amphibious assault ship? They're basically about the same as a WW2 jeep carrier. Or -- what are the smaller ships with a large helicopter landing pad on the fantail?
Amphib assault may be the best "big" ship for this. With the well deck in the back, you could drive smaller boats like RIBs, or even something the size of the old PT boats, in and out of the main ship for long range transport. Plus, I have it on good authority that filling the well deck creates a really nice sea water swimming pool for BBQ nights. =D
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I still think the q-ship concept is the way to go on this. Make it look like a big, fat, attractive target. Concealed weapons "pods" if you will. Let the bastards get in range of our weapons, confirm their intentions, then give them one helluva surprise.
Or go with a big ship and RIB/Fast Attack concept. Something with a big enough main gun to put the pirate's motherships on the bottom, but I don't like the idea of being in a similar sized and unarmored vessel to the pirate attack boats. Because if it's a small boat, they just need to get lucky with an RPG or small arms fire to really ruin your day.
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13kts. Could put you at a disadvantage if their RIBS get frisky while ours was out. Also leaves you unable to exploit piracy reports unless you happen to be close by.
Something like this (http://www.oceanmarine.com/detail.cfm?110ft-Crew-Pilot-Boat---13842&product_id=13842&category_current=19&category_current_sub=52), however, would probably work pretty well and already has a stern ramp for RIB launching.*
But if we can get a little financing $5mil will get you a pretty solid purpose built patrol craft (http://www.seaboats.net/new-build-37.5m-patrol-vessel-xidp1128564.html) another couple hundred grand in the right Eastern European country will get some cannon for it as well.
I wonder what a La Combatantant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Combattante_class_fast_attack_craft)goes for. They seem to be the default go-to fast attack boat over hear in the NAG.
*apropos of nothing at all, My current Master's License definitely covers a ship that size.
This Chilean fast attack boat looks very tempting. Has bow and stern guns. Seems to be about the right size. Good choice.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Teniente_Orella_LM37.jpg)
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I still think the q-ship concept is the way to go on this. Make it look like a big, fat, attractive target. Concealed weapons "pods" if you will. Let the bastards get in range of our weapons, confirm their intentions, then give them one helluva surprise.
+1.
And you don't need heavy artillery for anything but the pirate mother ship.
With a proper mount (to allow for plenty of gun depression) some twin 50's or even 7.62 miniguns will do for virtually all small pirate attack craft.
A pity nations no longer see the virtue of armed merchantmen . . .
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+1.
And you don't need heavy artillery for anything but the pirate mother ship.
With a proper mount (to allow for plenty of gun depression) some twin 50's or even 7.62 miniguns will do for virtually all small pirate attack craft.
A pity nations no longer see the virtue of armed merchantmen . . .
That's kinda what I was thinking. Mounted .50's (or even 20mm for the definitive range advantage over RPG's).
A Bofors 40mm ought to do nicely against the mother ship.
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That's kinda what I was thinking. Mounted .50's (or even 20mm for the definitive range advantage over RPG's).
A Bofors 40mm ought to do nicely against the mother ship.
An M2 has more than twice the effective range of an RPG-7, and like 25% more range than an RPG-29. They're all you really need for any vessel <~15M. The bigger motherships you'd want something a little more. If I were outfitting a ship like this for real I'd go with some kind of missile for that role. TOW or some such. it would be more effective and cheaper then any naval gun under like Mark 57 size.
The real reason for getting a Patrol Craft hull vs, research and or cargo vessel is speed, maneuverability and range/loiter ability. Those anti-ship missiles out of Yemen could be a mother though.
in a little seriousness though: FTR, This isn't actually a renaissance in activity, but rather in American news coverage. Piracy events have been holding pretty steady in frequency and locations worldwide for a while now. As have anti piracy ops by the worlds navies. The west only cares about it in spurts.
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The real reason for getting a Patrol Craft hull vs, research and or cargo vessel is speed, maneuverability and range/loiter ability.
Blackwater found that out the hard way back when they bought a ship we unaffectionately and unofficially designated the McBarfer and refitted her for maritime security applications. Slow and rocky damn thing. Though between operational stuff and lawsuits, they appear to be offering her for around $3mil, well below her $15mil appraised value when they were still using her.
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I still think the q-ship concept is the way to go on this. Make it look like a big, fat, attractive target. Concealed weapons "pods" if you will. Let the bastards get in range of our weapons, confirm their intentions, then give them one helluva surprise.
Or go with a big ship and RIB/Fast Attack concept. Something with a big enough main gun to put the pirate's motherships on the bottom, but I don't like the idea of being in a similar sized and unarmored vessel to the pirate attack boats. Because if it's a small boat, they just need to get lucky with an RPG or small arms fire to really ruin your day.
I like the q-ship idea. But I also wonder about depression of the guns' firing angles to get at close-in attackers. Are man-carried weapons the only way to handle that? Or wait till they get on deck and let loose with rifles?
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Anybody got load data for grapeshot in a 16" turret? I'm thinking all the surplus/used large ball bearings one can find should do a number on small pirate vessels.
Often the money literally fell from the sky. Several companies in nearby Kenya specialized in shrink-wrapping million-dollar blocks of cash and delivering them by parachute.
You know, even one company being able to specialize in ransom delivery and stay afloat is a sign of a serious problem.
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This Chilean fast attack boat looks very tempting. Has bow and stern guns. Seems to be about the right size. Good choice.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Teniente_Orella_LM37.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%27ar_4-class_missile_boat
Originally Isreali Navy, then sold to Chile.
Crew of 45.
Top speed 34 knots:
2-4 x RGM-84 Harpoon SSM's
and
4 × Gabriel II SSM's
OR
6 × Gabriel II SSM's
1 × 20 mm Phalanx CIWS
and
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm naval gun
OR
2 × OTO Melara 76 mm naval gun
2 × Oerlikon 20 mm cannons
Here's the latest model:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%27ar_4.5-class_missile_boat
I'd want the 76mm guns simply for stand-off range and for the motherships. The SSM's would also do a number on the motherships.
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That ship's all well and good, looks appropriately armed, and fast enough to get in and out pretty quick...
But there's no deck space for the grill. Where will we put the Weber smoker for pulled pork night? Where will the deck chairs go so the wenches can tan? :laugh:
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That ship's all well and good, looks appropriately armed, and fast enough to get in and out pretty quick...
But there's no deck space for the grill. Where will we put the Weber smoker for pulled pork night? Where will the deck chairs go so the wenches can tan? :laugh:
How about this one ??
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Israel_Navy_Strike_Gaza_from_the_Sea_%2814738072664%29.jpg)
That's the newer model. Or order one a few feet longer, with a built-in grill and a smoker....
I like the CIWS up front and the missiles amidships. And I like the stern mounted 76mm gun. I don't want to be on a two-way rifle range on the ocean with pirates...
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That's why I went with the Abe Lincoln plenty of room for the grill and bar and ranges.
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That ship's all well and good, looks appropriately armed, and fast enough to get in and out pretty quick...
But there's no deck space for the grill. Where will we put the Weber smoker for pulled pork night? Where will the deck chairs go so the wenches can tan? :laugh:
That's why I really prefer a jeep carrier or amphibious assault ship. But they burn more fuel and need a larger crew.
Nothing is easy ...
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http://www.wio.ru/fleet/ww2armorb.htm
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wio.ru%2Ffleet%2Fgal2%2Fp1125.jpg&hash=287391c2c4ffcc88012124013cda2996548d694f)
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^^^Interesting concept, to mount a tank turret/gun on a boat.
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Anybody got load data for grapeshot in a 16" turret? I'm thinking all the surplus/used large ball bearings one can find should do a number on small pirate vessels.
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It would screw up the rifling unless Homer Buckets were used as shot cups. And you'd get a doughnut pattern, like in those handgun shot rounds.
You might get better results with the Japanese "Beehive" anti-aircraft rounds. A bit of overkill, but could be a good psychological deterrent.
I'm not signing this one on general principles
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Something like a frigate might fill the bill -- the helipad would make for a good sun deck for the wenches as well as a platform for the BBQ.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/USSKnoxFF1052.jpg)
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the helipad would make for a good sun deck for the wenches as well as a platform for the BBQ.
pad to land the gunship on. Cobras are cheap enough.
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I finally took the time to educate myself a bit about Navy ship designations. Until now, I wasn't aware that frigates are smaller than destroyers. Dunno if there are any left in the world that haven't been scrapped (all have been decommissioned from U.S. service) but an Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigate would be a nice platform for pirate hunting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry-class_frigate
I was also interested to discover that the Coast Guard's new national security cutter class of ships is basically the same as a Navy frigate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Cutter
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I was also interested to discover that the Coast Guard's new national security cutter class of ships is basically the same as a Navy frigate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Cutter
That's what I'd be going for. We need to bribe dm1333 to snag the keys and make a run for it. =D
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Naval Station Everett used to have several Perry frigates homeported there. A former neighbor of mine was the CO of one on the last deployment before it was decommissioned. It was slated to be transferred to the Turkish Navy. The forward SM-1 missile launcher and missiles had already been removed and sent to Australia for use as spares.
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Quad fifties on every point and quarter-point of the compass.
I was thinking of a destroyer with hopped-up engines, but now I'm thinking frigate with hopped-up engines and quad .50s on the compass quarter-points.
On the other hand, I still like the Q-ship idea...
Decisions, decisions... <sigh>
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That's what I'd be going for. We need to bribe dm1333 to snag the keys and make a run for it. =D
As long as it is the USCGC James that we take I'm all in! With the added bonus of knowing some people who have done anti piracy ops there. Nothing like a little local knowledge. >:D
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As long as it is the USCGC James that we take I'm all in! With the added bonus of knowing some people who have done anti piracy ops there. Nothing like a little local knowledge. >:D
How closely do those new cutters (like the James) compare with Navy frigates?
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How closely do those new cutters (like the James) compare with Navy frigates?
They don't really compare, as built. Different missions. But making the changes to make it suit the Navy's needs wouldn't be that hard either.
Here is a good read about what it would take.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014-04/its-time-sea-control-frigate
And for the record the NSC's are tearing it up when it comes to drug interdiction. Who would have thought a modern ship with armed helicopters (who actually shoot at drug runners) would result in record numbers of drugs interdicted? ;/
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^^^Now that was a very interesting read, about the sea control frigate.
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Except for the line about it being preposterous to paint a Coast Guard cutter gray and call it a warship. But that is the kind of douchey statement you expect from an O-2. :P
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Except for the line about it being preposterous to paint a Coast Guard cutter gray and call it a warship. But that is the kind of douchey statement you expect from an O-2. :P
Especially a Navy O-2. The NSC class is virtually identical in size and displacement to the Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates, but is a much more modern design. Other articles I've read suggest that as a NSC it's about 85% to 90% of the way toward being fully Navy capable. In the past, there have been ships that went from being Navy to Coast Guard, and in some cases back to Navy (IIRC). Upgrading this design into a full-fledged frigate makes so much sense, there's no way the Pentagon will do it.
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Oh yes...a used patrol boat would be mo betta!
Offshore supply boats are fast a snot. Used to see them in the gulf and on most days they could keep up with my boat, which probably is about the same speed as the boats the pirates use.
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Oh yes...a used patrol boat would be mo betta!
Offshore supply boats are fast a snot. Used to see them in the gulf and on most days they could keep up with my boat, which probably is about the same speed as the boats the pirates use.
Da red wunz go fasta!
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Offshore supply boats are fast a snot. Used to see them in the gulf and on most days they could keep up with my boat, which probably is about the same speed as the boats the pirates use.
Boat doesn't have to keep up with them as long as the bullets do.
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No love for 40K ? A pity.
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That ship's all well and good, looks appropriately armed, and fast enough to get in and out pretty quick...
But there's no deck space for the grill. Where will we put the Weber smoker for pulled pork night? Where will the deck chairs go so the wenches can tan? :laugh:
It needs a poop deck.
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The obvious answer: modern Q boat container ship painted in Maersk livery. =D
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Boat doesn't have to keep up with them as long as the bullets do.
And the radio waves that guide the gin ship on an intercept.