Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on April 19, 2017, 06:58:23 PM
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/04/19/the-tragic-fall-of-aaron-hernandez/
WaPo story on the Aaron Hernandez suicide.
Aug. 22, 2013: A grand jury indicts Hernandez for the alleged murder of Lloyd.
Reality check. Odin Lloyd is pretty dead, and I don't think there's any doubt that he was murdered. So why describe it as an "alleged" murder? And moving the "alleged" to describe Hernandez would be pointless -- the report was that he was indicted for the murder, which is an indisputable fact. Properly, there was no need for the word "alleged" to appear anywhere in that dateline.
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To pile on with picking on that news story:
A guy in jail for life (without parole) for murder took his own life and saved society his upkeep for another 60 years.
Where's the tragedy?
His fall from $41 million football guy wasn't tragic either. It was justice for criminal acts he chose to engage in. Tragic would be if he was still playing football.
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I've noticed similar things in other stories, with reporters using "alleged" with respect to anything related to criminal acts. In one I particularly enjoyed, the local paper wrote an article all about a kid caught with a loaded handgun at school. First article stated everything as fact, John Doe had a gun at school. When charges were filed, the articles started saying that John Doe allegedly had a gun at school. In a piece of your alistic brilliance, after the kid plead guilty, went to prison, and filed an appeal, the article said police claimed John Doe had a gun at school.
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It's an alleged murder in that the facts establishing whether it was murder, an accident, manslaughter, assisted suicide, etc., weren't established.
It takes a trial and conviction to turn it from an alleged murder into a murder.
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It's an alleged murder in that the facts establishing whether it was murder, an accident, manslaughter, assisted suicide, etc., weren't established.
It takes a trial and conviction to turn it from an alleged murder into a murder.
Mr. Hernandez was tried and convicted of Mr. Lloyd's murder in 2015. If this timeline had been written between the indictment and conviction that would be one thing. At the time the article was written however, the murder is established fact
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It's an alleged murder in that the facts establishing whether it was murder, an accident, manslaughter, assisted suicide, etc., weren't established.
It takes a trial and conviction to turn it from an alleged murder into a murder.
dogmush beat me to it.
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It all makes sense if you realize the they aren't "journalists". They have all morphed into urinalsits.
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"Mr. Hernandez was tried and convicted of Mr. Lloyd's murder in 2015."
I thought he was just acquitted of Lloyd's murder just a few days ago?
And that he was serving time for a separate murder?
Or do I have those mixed up?
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"Mr. Hernandez was tried and convicted of Mr. Lloyd's murder in 2015."
I thought he was just acquitted of Lloyd's murder just a few days ago?
And that he was serving time for a separate murder?
Or do I have those mixed up?
You're mixed up. Convicted of Lloyd's murder, serving life without parole (which turned out to be a pretty short sentence). He was acquitted in the murder of two others that were killed in a drive-by a year or so before Lloyd's murder.
At least that's what wikipedia says.
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Ah. OK, then.
The complaint against how the timeline is written is valid.
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I regard the use of "alleged" in just about every crime story as just a word-habit, like the term "literally," which is almost never used literally.
I guess it was originally lawyer-driven to avoid the publication's possible liability if they call someone a criminal and then the rascal is found not guilty.
Even if the cops walk in on the dude while he's still shooting, with blood on the gun and his hands, and brain matter is plastered all over his shirt, with bpth the victim and the ejected shell casing still on their way to the floor, and a high-quality surveillance camera captured it all from exactly the right angle, he's still only an alleged killer until a court actually determines the dude's guilty.
And I am not using "dude" literally.
I really wouldn't accuse newswriters of sloppiness merely for the use of a catchword like that.
Terry
REF:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/catchword
(Hm. I didn't know about #3. I learn something every day.)
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To pile on with picking on that news story:
A guy in jail for life (without parole) for murder took his own life and saved society his upkeep for another 60 years.
Where's the tragedy?
His fall from $41 million football guy wasn't tragic either. It was justice for criminal acts he chose to engage in. Tragic would be if he was still playing football.
It's tragic in that he apparently had the skills to make a pretty good life for himself and his family. He had made it. But he threw it all away.
As for journalists not knowing how to use their words, that's called "travesty."
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/travesty
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Even if the cops walk in on the dude while he's still shooting, with blood on the gun and hands and brain matter all over his shirt, bpth the victim and the ejected shell casing are still on their way to the floor, and a high-quality surveillance camera captured it all, he's still only an alleged killer until a court actually determines the dude's guilty.
I think under those circumstances it's pretty well established that he's the killer, but not necessarily a murderer. The murder is alleged, the homicide is a fact.
BTW, did anyone watch the recent NBC comedy-drama series "Trial and Error"? Instead of overusing the word "alleged", they went the other way with it in all the news reports :)
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"As for journalists not knowning how to use their words, that's called "travesty.""
What about Fistful not knowning how to use his words?
I think that's called... unremarkable.
:rofl:
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"BTW, did anyone watch the recent NBC comedy-drama series "Trial and Error"? Instead of overusing the word "alleged", they went the other way with it in all the news reports"
Yes! I laughed my ass off through most of it!
John Lithgow is a monumentally good actor.
And I thought it was a hoot when they brought in French Stewart as a witness coach.
I give Trial and Error a solid 4.5 out of 5 on the Irwinmeter.
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"As for journalists not knowning how to use their words, that's called "travesty.""
What about Fistful not knowning how to use his words?
I think that's called... unremarkable.
:rofl:
Never happened. :angel:
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It's tragic in that he apparently had the skills to make a pretty good life for himself and his family. He had made it. But he threw it all away.
He was a thug who severely injured his first (known) victim when he was 17 and then proceeded to be around or involved in a string of assaults, shootings, and murders until he was jailed. He was only allowed to rack up his count because he was good at football in a town that worships it. What happened to Aaron Hernandez wasn't tragic, it was justice.
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I don't know whether it was justice or not, but I do know it was inevitable.
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"BTW, did anyone watch the recent NBC comedy-drama series "Trial and Error"? Instead of overusing the word "alleged", they went the other way with it in all the news reports"
Yes! I laughed my ass off through most of it!
John Lithgow is a monumentally good actor.
And I thought it was a hoot when they brought in French Stewart as a witness coach.
I give Trial and Error a solid 4.5 out of 5 on the Irwinmeter.
Judge Horsedich. *snicker*
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What happened to Aaron Hernandez wasn't tragic, it was justice.
Obviously, he deserved swift and severe punishment, justice, etc. I don't think anything that happened to him was tragic.
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It's an alleged murder in that the facts establishing whether it was murder, an accident, manslaughter, assisted suicide, etc., weren't established.
It takes a trial and conviction to turn it from an alleged murder into a murder.
No, it takes a dead body with some bullet holes in it and no evidence of suicide to make it a murder. That part is fact. A trial and conviction are what convert a suspect (an "alleged" murderer), into a murderer.
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I really wouldn't accuse newswriters of sloppiness merely for the use of a catchword like that.
Go back and read the opening post again. The writer didn't write that Hernandez was the "alleged" murderer. He wrote that the crime was an "alleged" murder.
There is a difference.
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No, it takes a dead body with some bullet holes in it and no evidence of suicide to make it a murder. That part is fact. A trial and conviction are what convert a suspect (an "alleged" murderer), into a murderer.
That's a preponderance of evidence that it was a homicide. Perhaps it's a murder, perhaps it's manslaughter, or an accident, or self-defense.
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In this instance, however, the article was about the "homicide" for which Hernandez was convicted of murder.
I still maintain that the use of the word "alleged" was inappropriate.