Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: gunsmith on May 25, 2017, 01:28:25 PM
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Especially The Guardian :laugh:
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/politics/reporter-alleges-greg-gianforte-body-slammed-him-in-bozeman/article_9df533bb-9919-51aa-8d0d-5d5cb4e48923.html
Seems like the reporter like to jab stuff into the personal space/face of politicians and caught a proper response.
I hope the R wins and the wanna be Kinky Friedman loses .
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a proper response
Sorry, but no.
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Proper?
If that was a typical response, reporters would generally be a lot more polite. =)
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Too bad there's no video, 'cause I don't think that's ever gonna get old.
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Too bad there's no video, 'cause I don't think that's ever gonna get old.
I'm calling BS on the body slam. Guy was up and talking normally within 2-3 seconds of the supposed slam, and even a fairly good martial artist taking a serious fall that he knew was coming on a good mat is quite often going to need more time than that to recover.
Then there's the description: they claim Gianforte "grabbed the reporter by the throat with both hands and slammed him to the ground behind him." I may not know every martial arts technique in existence, but I've never seen a throw from a two handed throat grab unless there's a GSD-to-chihuahua disparity in size and strength. At least one site says Gianforte is 6'2" and 195 pounds, so a little taller at my weight, and I doubt I could throw the ~90 pound 16 year old girl who occasionally uses me as a defensive techniques dummy that way. (You know you're in a martial arts class when an underage girl can tell you "Pull my hair...harder, like you really mean it...yeah, just like that" right in front of an off duty cop and nobody thinks it's weird.)
Sounds more like Gianforte tried to push the reporter away, reporter resisted to the point where he fell on his own, and I'm not sure what happened to his glasses, but nobody casually states "you just broke my glasses" right after taking any sort of hit to the face serious enough to break glasses.
Or maybe the recorder shut down for 18.5 minutes of battle royale.
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They're walking back the "grabbed around the neck" story, now that the damage is already done.
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YES!!!
Very pleased, LOL!!!
The simpletons / dinosaur media must be pulling their hair out.
Only Democrats are allowed to assault people, I had a feeling he would apologize, glad he did
LOL LOL LOL.
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And it looks like he won.
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Apparently Montana voters at his press conference actually cheered when he mentioned assaulting the reporter.
And laughed at any media present while going to vote for Gianforte.
Hey, any on the left reading this? I know you are aghast at all this and think it's hypocrisy on the right because we're always the ones talking about the violence on the left.
It's not hypocrisy because the right has noticed you don't really care about political violence (from the left) and has decided that it can't be a one-way street.
You want the attacks (literal ones) to stop? Police your side and stop covering for them with the "mostly peaceful" crap while tarring the right as "VIOLENT!" when they have actual peaceful protest. (i.e. the Tea Party) They were angry, but not violent.
I'm not sure the genie can go back in the bottle, but it's pretty clear people are fed up. Trump should have been a wake up call and instead you doubled down. That's not going to help.
Related? People in my wife's hobby were discussing on Facebook that they need to track down and expose anyone in the hobby who voted for Trump and make sure no one takes classes, workshops, or buys anything from them. In other words drive them out of the hobby, something that people do simply for the love of it. As a Trump voter, that actually frightened her that people hate her that much and want to seek her out in something (that ought to be) completely devoid of politics.
You want less hate? Stop calling every Republican candidate/politician literally Hitler. Your minions believe you and start treating people who simply disagree on politics as someone who literally wants to throw people in ovens.
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Apparently I'm in the minority here being opposed to violence as a political tool.
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The ever-present temptation to dehumanize and to dominate is especially strong when traditional means of recourse appear to break down, as many on the left and right would agree has happened recently. But the response should be to redouble our efforts to repair those mechanisms, not to destroy them altogether. Without an alternative for securing the dignity of individuals against infringement, the latter is a quick route to a political order held together by nothing more than brute force.
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Apparently I'm in the minority here being opposed to violence as a political tool.
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I may not have expressed it explicitly in my post, but I'm quite against it. (That's the "I don't know if the genie can go back in the bottle" part) I'd MUCH prefer to live in a country where political violence is rare and shunned by all.
However, I'm calling out the left because I understand the sentiment on the right and I don't think the right is going to stop until the other side makes concessions. The people have been kicked and beaten (not always metaphorically, even) and see the left covering for the people who do it.1 I realize this sounds like a "HE DID IT FIRST!" issue, but when "Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury" people stop making petitions.
1: See the "punishments" handed out at Middlebury for injuring a professor.
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I see some sentiment along the lines of "it's unfortunate it's come to this". I disagree that it has come to the point of violence as a necessity and agree with the NR article I quoted. However, I also see a more troubling sentiment cheering this on and being happy about. There's an excitement I see in some responses to this that I find rather repulsive.
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Apparently I'm in the minority here being opposed to violence as a political tool.
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not at all.
A: he apologized.
B: if you listen to the recording, the guardian reporters have a history of intrusion.
C: walk up to someone you dislike, shout questions at him,stick your cellphone an inch from his face as he is walking.
D: observe the effect of your actions.
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I see some sentiment along the lines of "it's unfortunate it's come to this". I disagree that it has come to the point of violence as a necessity and agree with the NR article I quoted. However, I also see a more troubling sentiment cheering this on and being happy about. There's an excitement I see in some responses to this that I find rather repulsive.
That's the sentiment I'm referring to. I have been saying for years (seriously, look up posts warning about this) that the demonizing things like the Tea Party will result not in stopping the anger, but in stopping the "peaceful" part of the protest.
That's why I'm being Cassandra again after seeing what I've predicted come to pass, I'm now predicting what's necessary to stop it. (Which is the same thing that would have stopped it in the first place.)
The difference is, now that it HAS come to pass, I'm not sure it can be stopped without actual bloodshed. It's possible, but the "elites" we have today aren't up to the task. (Not even, "might not be up to the task." They simply aren't.)
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Interesting:
http://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/05/26/awkward-ben-jacobs-tweet-about-wanting-to-punch-a-conservative-journo-hasnt-aged-well/
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That's the sentiment I'm referring to. I have been saying for years (seriously, look up posts warning about this) that the demonizing things like the Tea Party will result not in stopping the anger, but in stopping the "peaceful" part of the protest.
That's why I'm being Cassandra again after seeing what I've predicted come to pass, I'm now predicting what's necessary to stop it. (Which is the same thing that would have stopped it in the first place.)
The difference is, now that it HAS come to pass, I'm not sure it can be stopped without actual bloodshed. It's possible, but the "elites" we have today aren't up to the task. (Not even, "might not be up to the task." They simply aren't.)
their old tricks are not working as well as they used to and they're getting increasingly angry.
it used to be they could bait opponents and the media would play over and over again the mistake.
"they" thought they could provoke anger and use it to drive up votes but all they are doing is provoking anger and losing votes.
this particular incident was not political violence, it was rude people shouting and sticking phones an inch from someones face.
do that to anyone, anyone, see what happens.
the reporter was violating basic personal space-there is not much to this story except an idiot reaping what he sowed, the dinosaur media is desperately
trying any tactic to preserve whatever power it has left.
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A: he apologized.
Good. Maybe he has more sense than some of his supporters.
B: if you listen to the recording, the guardian reporters have a history of intrusion.
C: walk up to someone you dislike, shout questions at him,stick your cellphone an inch from his face as he is walking.
D: observe the effect of your actions.
So does that mean he deserved it?
This happens literally every day to politicians and thus far, for the most part, they have managed to not assault people.
To be clear, at no point did any of us who witnessed this assault see Jacobs show any form of physical aggression toward Gianforte
It's unpleasant, it's rude, and I'm not sure I would remain cool and calm with persistent reporters which is a good reason for me not to run for that job. This was a media event, getting asked questions is not an excuse to assault people.
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I wouldn't assault a MSM journalist, but I'd certainly spit on the ground in front of him. I'd love to do it, actually.
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It's unpleasant, it's rude, and I'm not sure I would remain cool and calm with persistent reporters which is a good reason for me not to run for that job. This was a media event, getting asked questions is not an excuse to assault people.
Try it on random cops and see how long it takes before you get put on the ground. Be sure the unknown object in your hand is within two inches of their faces immediately upon completing your fast, determined approach.
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Try it on random cops and see how long it takes before you get put on the ground. Be sure the unknown object in your hand is within two inches of their faces immediately upon completing your fast, determined approach.
Right, because this guy is a cop and his training just kicked in? He thought he was about to be murdered or something? ;/
The police chief where I live does press release / media events pretty regularly and despite scary situations like a reporter holding up a microphone, he's managed to keep his gun holstered during them.
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Meh. It's not like he hit the reporter in the head with a bike lock ...
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Meh. It's not like he hit the reporter in the head with a bike lock ...
And if it was Putin he would have just been killed I suppose. Still, I'm trying to keep my standards higher than Russian or Antifa scum.
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Still, I'm trying to keep my standards higher than Russian or Antifa scum.
Same here. I just think this dust-up is being blown out of proportion. The reasons it was all over the MSM is (a) it involved a Republican, and (b) it was done to one of their own.
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Stop consuming their product. I've never wanted to body slam them, or even hit them. Journalism is dead and has been for very long time now.
Get rid of TV, that herd needs to thinned/culled (in the metaphorical sense). Lower ratings will either drive them to double down further, which will reduce their ratings (MSNBC and CNN) to the point they are unprofitable. As is happening to newspapers. (IIRC, despite all their Trump hate, NYT and WaPo are both shedding readers at unsustatinable rate.)
Same can be done with TV reporters. (Although the person in this case was a foreign newspaper reporter, They can't be doing well either. )
Anyway, the reporter seemingly violated the rules of civil society by repeated ignoring the request of candidate. While violence is not the answer, a goo dressing down by his fellow reporters definitely was in order. Even a simple, "Stop, the he'll answer questions once we begin the presser." from one of his fellows should have been all it took. But in today's world of "gotcha" reporting, that doesn't happen. I don't mind candidates being asked hard questions. Which didn't seem to happen in during the prior administration, and I would hope that this reporter is going after the other candidate(s) in this race in a similar manner, but if not, why not. Because if he being a dick to both sides then fine. But if he's doing it to just the one, then he's not a reporter, but an agent provocateur.
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Same here. I just think this dust-up is being blown out of proportion. The reasons it was all over the MSM is (a) it involved a Republican, and (b) it was done to one of their own.
By way of balance, we observe that, while the Republican, in a fit of pique, may have committed misdemeanor assault against one obnoxious adult; the Democratic candidate supports the deliberate, serial murder of millions of completely innocent children. And the Democrat's not likely to apologize for it.
Lower ratings will either drive them to double down further, which will reduce their ratings (MSNBC and CNN) to the point they are unprofitable. As is happening to newspapers. (IIRC, despite all their Trump hate, NYT and WaPo are both shedding readers at unsustatinable rate.)
http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2017/03/cable-news-booms-in-first-quarter-ratings-236596
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Semi-related: Texas governor Abbott makes a small joke; the usual suspects hyperventilate:
http://www.newsweek.com/texas-governor-greg-abbott-makes-joke-about-shooting-reporters-616403
The unrelenting Republican assault on the free press continued on Friday when Greg Abbott, the Republican governor of Texas, joked about shooting journalists.
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It's an unrelenting assault! Making jokes hurts reporters' feelings! Abbott == Hitler!
After signing the fee-lowering bill, Abbott went to a gun range to show off his own prowess with firearms. Later, as he displayed his target sheet, he said, "I'm gonna carry this around in case I see any reporters."
He didn't even joke about shooting journalists. He only said he was going to show them his target.
If the media's skin got any thinner, they'd be transparent.
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But talking about blowing up the White House or killing Trump is okay.
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If a bully pushes someone hard enough for long enough, eventually the bullied will break and fight back.
*shrug* The right/Conservative/republican/libertarian side of politics has been bullied by the media and the left to the point of breaking. I'm not saying it's okay for any side to throw punches, but I'm not surprised, nor am I going to feel bad for the idiots getting punched.
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I'm not surprised, nor am I going to feel bad for the idiots getting punched.
I saw similar reactions from the left when that 'nazi' got punched. That guy didn't deserve to get punched because he has unpopular opinions. This guy didn't deserve to get body slammed because 'the media' is bad. I'm not too surprised either, but I am disappointed both by the incident itself and the tribalism evident in defending and rationalizing it.
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dittohead
This was a media event, getting asked questions is not an excuse to assault people.
CITE!!??
afaik it was an ambush, not a media event iirc he was walking to a plane or a car or something
Wouldn't a "media event" have a video?
the dinosaur media is making this to be he was upset with the question, and no, you're wrong about this happening all the time.
it does not happen to goodthinkers it only happens to wrongthinkers.
This guy didn't deserve to get body slammed
oh, he deserved it alright, the fact is, he didn't really get body slammed - they fell - the cops would have had to charge him with something more serious if it was indeed a body slam- a body slam would have resulted in something more serious than broken glasses there are no cuts/scrapes/bruises etc.
but I am disappointed both by the incident itself and the tribalism evident in defending and rationalizing it.
I do not think you are disappointed at all, I think you're enjoying picking on those horrible bullies that dislike having their personal space violated.
Tribalism? indeed, the establishment tribe is trying to make falling over into brown shirt violence.
Rationalizing? Really?, when people rationalize that something is ok do they apologize for it?
If I or anyone else was actually rationalizing it, why would they say "i am glad he apologized"
Nope, the way I see it you are purposely confusing "rationalizing" with "understanding" or "sympathy".
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I saw similar reactions from the left when that 'nazi' got punched. That guy didn't deserve to get punched because he has unpopular opinions. This guy didn't deserve to get body slammed because 'the media' is bad. I'm not too surprised either, but I am disappointed both by the incident itself and the tribalism evident in defending and rationalizing it.
The media is bad. Case in point. I heard about this incident on the AP news slot when I was listening to the rock station that actually plays mostly music. In the mornings, the news is two or three one minute segments with one, maybe two stories mentioned.
In less than a minute, this story was made out to be the biggest news story of the week *AND* biased reporting since it never once mentioned that the attack was provoked. Seriously, it was made out like the reporter was meekly asking a question and got a WWF beat down.
Then (because that wasn't biased enough) the report insinuating that the race would be lost by the republican because of the incident.
All in a segment that was BARELY a minute long.
Compared that to the fact that I have to go on FB or here to find out about all the Antifi attacks on people they don't like.
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100% correct bslizzard!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGtuyQgqcU
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an astute opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGtuyQgqcU
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dittohead CITE!!??
afaik it was an ambush, not a media event iirc he was walking to a plane or a car or something
Wouldn't a "media event" have a video?
???
Did you actually read the eye witness account? It makes the setting & situation quite clear. Video was being setup.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/24/greg-gianforte-fox-news-team-witnesses-gop-house-candidate-body-slam-reporter.html
As I said before, this account corroborates the Guardian reporters account and the audio recording (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhoH4v8xYlU) does as well.
You can claim everyone except Gianforte is lying about what happened I guess. If that does turn out to be the case I will admit to be dead wrong but for now I'm going to go with the multiple witnesses.
he didn't really get body slammed - they fell - the cops would have had to charge him with something more serious if it was indeed a body slam- a body slam would have resulted in something more serious than broken glasses there are no cuts/scrapes/bruises etc.
If they fell what does Gianforte have to be sorry for? Why would anyone be glad he apologized for falling down?
In the very first post you called it (the alleged assault) a proper response, have you come to a different conclusion that it never happened now?
I think you're enjoying picking on those horrible bullies that dislike having their personal space violated.
You caught me, after I won the war on Christmas I needed a new cause so I'm trolling the internet on the front lines of the new war on personal space.
Rationalizing? Really?, when people rationalize that something is ok do they apologize for it?
If I or anyone else was actually rationalizing it, why would they say "i am glad he apologized"
How can you seriously claim this when the title of the thread is Who hasn't wanted to body slam a journalist? :facepalm:
This is rationalizing:the reporter was violating basic personal space-there is not much to this story except an idiot reaping what he sowed
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I want to body slamm fox news reporters all the time, more than half are morons, except Katie Pavlich - but she is a contributor. not really a fox news reporter.
where where where are all the cuts/scrapes/bruises?
the poor guardian transgressor was wearing a motorcycle racing suit or something?
I broke my glasses by sitting down in a chair!
The cops are on the side of the brown shirt wrongthinker? if not why are they not charging him with a serious offense?
fox news idiots can be just as stupid as msnbc .
We should not let people be reporters unless they can survive a gauntlet and cage fight.
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There are many times I'd like to administer some tar and feathers to certain reporters . . . and, for that matter, politicians of BOTH major parties.
But I'd settle for smacking them in the face with a whipped cream pie.
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But I'd settle for smacking them in the face with a whipped cream pie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCNzFn_Oxds
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4252/34795127031_b12649f8a3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V1J82i) (https://flic.kr/p/V1J82i) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/19769480@N08/),
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Apparently I'm in the minority here being opposed to violence as a political tool.
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I saw this comment from the last page. I agree. The media should stop provoking violence and using violence as a tool.
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IMO, this incident is a very good example of how unpopular the media has become as well as how the media loves to do everything they can to provoke violence short of outright violence themselves. They have been doing the latter for a long time. Like a kid holding their finger in your face saying "I'm not touching you!".
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IMO, this incident is a very good example of how unpopular the media has become as well as how the media loves to do everything they can to provoke violence short of outright violence themselves. They have been doing the latter for a long time. Like a kid holding their finger in your face saying "I'm not touching you!".
WBC tactics. If they can't find a story, they'll make one.
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His glasses have been donated to the media museum in DC. Regardless of what Gianforte did, this is absolutely ridiculous. Again, this is how you get Trump.
http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/05/30/this-is-ridiculous-ben-jacobs-donates-gianforted-glasses-to-newseum/
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I wonder how many gallons of liberal tears have been donated?
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Rationalizing? Really?, when people rationalize that something is ok do they apologize for it?
If I or anyone else was actually rationalizing it, why would they say "i am glad he apologized"
How can you seriously claim this when the title of the thread is Who hasn't wanted to body slam a journalist? :facepalm:
I hope you've calmed down since you said the above. The thread title is obviously an expression of the id, not a defense of Gianforte's actions. We can (most of us) sympathize with the urge to punch lefties. That doesn't amount to a defense of actually punching them.
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I hope you've calmed down since you said the above. The thread title is obviously an expression of the id, not a defense of Gianforte's actions
Outright defending his actions would be pretty tough but there have been plenty of excuses & rationalizations and some weird deflections thrown in too. I'm a little surprised no one managed to pin this on Obama or George Soros some how.
I will give Gianforte credit for his apology. He took personal responsibility for his actions and admitted he was wrong. He didn't try to blame the reporter, the left, the leftist media, or anyone else for his actions.
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Obviously you should not put your hands on someone if they are bothering you until there is a legitimate self defense reason.
However and this isn't really a defense, more of a question or questions. As I understand it in this case the "journalist" walked into a closed room uninvited, then refused to leave while aggressively shoving a recorder(phone) into Gianforte's face. First are you allowed to eject someone from a place they have no right to be? Second we have all seen videos of reporters aggressively invading the personal space of people shoving microphones and cameras in their faces. While I doubt most courts would consider that to be a reason for self defense or pushing someone away, maybe they should. I'm not sure where in our laws a "journalist" or anyone else has the right to invade personal space and shove objects of any kind in the face of someone. It is an aggressive act, period. Whether it warrants a physical response is what needs to be determined; I'm not sure in some cases if it doesn't actually justify a physical response to stop the behavior. The first amendment gives freedom of the press, it doesn't give the press freedom to harass someone.
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Obviously you should not put your hands on someone if they are bothering you until there is a legitimate self defense reason.
Honestly, while I get that it's not legal to put your hands on somebody until you hit the self defense threshold, I'm not sure you shouldn't. The guy was being an ass, and that should have consequences. In this case he was an ass, and the consequence was broken glasses and maybe a bruise. Next time don't be an ass.
You know: Be part of a Polite Society.
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Honestly, while I get that it's not legal to put your hands on somebody until you hit the self defense threshold, I'm not sure you shouldn't. The guy was being an ass, and that should have consequences. In this case he was an ass, and the consequence was broken glasses and maybe a bruise. Next time don't be an ass.
You know: Be part of a Polite Society.
That was kind of the point of my whole second paragraph ... I'm not sold that reporters being aggressive can justify putting hands on them, but I think an argument can be made that one maybe should be allowed to push away someone being aggressive/harassing in their personal space. We don't seem to have issues legally speaking with bodyguards for celebrities for example pushing fans and media away from the principals when they get to close or are engaging in a harassing or aggressive manner. I can see a a parallel here.
This certainly was not just a case of Gianforte just "body slamming the reporter for asking a question" as most of the coverage seems to say. There is a whole lot more context here. In Gianforte's best interest at this time however is probably to proceed as he did with the apology and try to negotiate a minimum legal settlement to move past this with minimal legal repercussions.
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We don't seem to have issues legally speaking with bodyguards for celebrities for example pushing fans and media away from the principals when they get to close or are engaging in a harassing or aggressive manner. I can see a a parallel here.
Exactly; and if a bodyguard can go hands-on at that level without a clear threat, why can a public figure not act as their own bodyguard?
I do wonder where it would go if the bodyguard pushes and the fan stays firmly rooted; how far can they escalate without an actual threat before the guards start getting arrested? One of the aikido instructors I've studied a bit with is a pretty solid guy to start with, and when he's being the uncooperative uke to force someone to find the right way to do a technique, you might as well be trying to push a granite statue around.
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We don't seem to have issues legally speaking with bodyguards for celebrities for example pushing fans and media away from the principals when they get to close or are engaging in a harassing or aggressive manner. I can see a a parallel here.
MikeB beat me to the punch, but yes, excellent point.
Edit: I need to stop posting before my second cup of coffee in the morning. I thought MikeB was responding to the bodyguard thing, but he originated it. He didn't beat me to the punch, because I didn't think of it until he brought it up. :)
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I hadn't thought of the bodyguard example. Good point. This guy was perhaps going a bit beyond that, but not very far.
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I hadn't thought of the bodyguard example. Good point. This guy was perhaps going a bit beyond that, but not very far.
Did he go beyond that? I've heard some claim this was mostly a soccer style flop. As a Brit, he's likely practiced that every day in grammar school.
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Exactly; and if a bodyguard can go hands-on at that level without a clear threat, why can a public figure not act as their own bodyguard?
I do wonder where it would go if the bodyguard pushes and the fan stays firmly rooted; how far can they escalate without an actual threat before the guards start getting arrested? One of the aikido instructors I've studied a bit with is a pretty solid guy to start with, and when he's being the uncooperative uke to force someone to find the right way to do a technique, you might as well be trying to push a granite statue around.
Since this is APS and thread veer is required. I've wondered similar to this about protesters blocking an entrance to a public building, place of business, sidewalk, street, etc. Shouldn't I be allowed to move them out of my way or have police immediately move them out of my way if they are blocking public travel? Why do we put up with this behavior? Sure they have a right to peacefully assemble, but that doesn't trump my right to freedom of movement in public or private spaces to which they have no ownership or permit to occupy. If a celebrity or politician was being blocked in many cases police or bodyguards can and will push their way through, shouldn't I have the same rights?
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I've wondered similar to this about protesters blocking an entrance to a public building, place of business, sidewalk, street, etc. Shouldn't I be allowed to move them out of my way or have police immediately move them out of my way if they are blocking public travel?
Even the ACLU doesn't claim this is legal.
If you endanger others while protesting, you can be arrested. A protest that blocks vehicular or pedestrian traffic is illegal without a permit.
You do not have the right to block a building entrance or physically harass people.
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Since this is APS and thread veer is required. I've wondered similar to this about protesters blocking an entrance to a public building, place of business, sidewalk, street, etc. Shouldn't I be allowed to move them out of my way or have police immediately move them out of my way if they are blocking public travel?
Not sure, but I have been told by a deputy that if they're blocking me *into* a place I want to leave, I'm good to go on reasonable force under the circumstances to get out, but that I should also be on the phone to 911 reporting the unlawful detention.
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Even the ACLU doesn't claim this is legal.
Yes, but you rarely see people prosecuted or prevented from doing it. Often police are told to stand down. If someone was to push their way through likely in many places they would in fact be arrested ... or at least that appears to be what would happen in many cases and is the part that I was submitting as a thought experiment on what should be allowed or not.
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A couple states have passed, or are considering, a "you can run over protesters in the highway" law addressing this very issue.
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Yes, but you rarely see people prosecuted or prevented from doing it. Often police are told to stand down. If someone was to push their way through likely in many places they would in fact be arrested ... or at least that appears to be what would happen in many cases and is the part that I was submitting as a thought experiment on what should be allowed or not.
I think that is due to the fact that protestors often choose the locations of these things in places where the local govt is sympathetic. As long as you are not excessively violent, I really doubt you would be convicted, but no one wants to put themselves in a position to be prosecuted.
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A couple states have passed, or are considering, a "you can run over protesters in the highway" law addressing this very issue.
Which ones? I may have to reconsider where I'm retiring. =D
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I think that is due to the fact that protestors often choose the locations of these things in places where the local govt is sympathetic. As long as you are not excessively violent, I really doubt you would be convicted, but no one wants to put themselves in a position to be prosecuted.
Yes. Was it Georgia where the antifas chose poorly and the police removed their masks?
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Yes. Was it Georgia where the antifas chose poorly and the police removed their masks?
Alabama. (It was at Auburn, iirc)
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As long as you are not excessively violent,
You just suck the fun out of everything.
Psalm 27:2 - proof that God approves of aikido.
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I think that is due to the fact that protestors often choose the locations of these things in places where the local govt is sympathetic. As long as you are not excessively violent, I really doubt you would be convicted, but no one wants to put themselves in a position to be prosecuted.
This is probably more true than anything else I suppose. Even before I ever really carried a firearm for self defense I studied martial arts. A lesson I learned there carried over. Just because you can win a fight doesn't mean it is wise to engage in it. When carrying a firearm just because you can legally engage in even a nonviolent confrontation doesn't mean it's wise. Even when not carrying a firearm and even when it is or should be legal to engage in a confrontation nonviolent or otherwise; it's better many times not to and not risk losing the right to carry over a possible unjustified conviction if it isn't really a life or death situation.
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I think that is due to the fact that protestors often choose the locations of these things in places where the local govt is sympathetic. As long as you are not excessively violent, I really doubt you would be convicted, but no one wants to put themselves in a position to be prosecuted.
It is noteworthy that Tulsa did not have any violent protests after Betty Shelby was acquitted of shooting an unarmed black man.
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You just suck the fun out of everything.
Psalm 27:2 - proof that God approves of aikido.
=D
I think in a lot of places, you could be violent against protestors and get away with it, but I am not sure I would want to risk my future finding out.
The thing to remember is the protestors don't want to get run over either. There are youtube videos showing they will get out of the way if they realize you going to keep going forward. The only one I saw where a guy got run over was because the driver gassed it way too hard and they didn't have time to move. I don't know if that guy got caught later or not.
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Not sure, but I have been told by a deputy that if they're blocking me *into* a place I want to leave, I'm good to go on reasonable force under the circumstances to get out, but that I should also be on the phone to 911 reporting the unlawful detention.
Locally there was a case where a couple of guys got in a verbal altercation in a restaurant. One of them claims the other guy is doing drugs. The alleged druggie leaves the building and gets in his car. Drug Warrior stands behind the car and won't let the guy go. Alleged Druggie backs out anyway giving Drug Warrior a love tap on his shins. Drug Warrior boots through the driver's window and hauls Alleged Druggie out of the car and proceeds to work him over. As the cops pull up, Alleged Druggie has gotten back into his car and is trying to drive away. He's pulled over and Drug Warrior is yelling about pressing charges against the driver for hitting him.
After the details were determined, Alleged Druggie (whose car was searched and no drugs found) went home and Drug Warrior went to jail for (as I recall) battery and unlawful restraint.
YMMV.
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Greg Gianforte, the Montana Republican who assaulted a Guardian journalist on the eve of his election to the US House of Representatives, has issued a full and unequivocal apology to the reporter and agreed to donate $50,000 to the Committee to Protect Journalists.
Full and unequivocal is right:
Notwithstanding anyone’s statements to the contrary, you did not initiate any physical contact with me, and I had no right to assault you
...
I had no right to respond the way I did to your legitimate question about healthcare policy. You were doing your job.
It's nice to see a politician acting like an adult after making a mistake. =)
For that matter the reporter is behaving himself too:
“I have accepted Mr Gianforte’s apology and his willingness to take responsibility for his actions and statements,” Jacobs said in a statement. “I hope the constructive resolution of this incident reinforces for all the importance of respecting the freedom of the press and the first amendment and encourages more civil and thoughtful discourse in our country.”
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A couple states have passed, or are considering, a "you can run over protesters in the highway" law addressing this very issue.
That should be universal. Maybe even a constitutional amendment.
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That should be universal. Maybe even a constitutional amendment.
If we get enough of the "right" judges on the courts I'm sure they could find it as an already existing right protected by the constitution.
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Update:
He got 40 hrs of community service, 20 hrs of anger management classes, and a $300 fine....and elected to congress.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/politics/greg-gianforte-assault-plea/index.html
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Update:
He got 40 hrs of community service, 20 hrs of anger management classes, and a $300 fine....and elected to congress.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/politics/greg-gianforte-assault-plea/index.html
Wow, if he had shot the guy in Chicago, he'd get probation and an apology from the court... ;/ ;/