Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: zahc on June 28, 2017, 12:49:33 AM
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According to my utility, I use substantially more electricity than average, even compared to other houses in my neighborhood which are similar size and built around the same time. Like, $1000 per year more than average. That's a lot of money; practically a vacation. I'm trying to figure out where it's all going. In other words, would it actually be worth it for me to install more insulation in my attic, etc. or is the electricity going somewhere else altogether.
I don't think lights really use much electricity, especially since most of them are LED now, so I'm not going to start harping on turning the lights off all the time. We have two chest freezers, but I think those only cost like $30 a year or something. My first hunch is that a large amount can be blamed on my electric dryer and the fact that it runs every day, sometimes multiple times. I might also blame some of it on the thermostat settings.
I think I'm going to buy a plug-in kill-a-watt for the dryer. But I would like to figure out how much the air conditioners are costing me, and those don't really plug in.
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Can you get a 240v kill-a-watt? Didn't know that was a thing.
I think you're on the right track with the dryer. Mine is labeled at 4.8kw input. Running it for one hour would, worst case scenario, cost me over 50 cents.
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https://www.walmart.com/ip/Honeywell-HONEYWELL-28061-AC-Hour-Meter-Rectangle-Retainer-G5151167/41348194
Okay, $1k/year is definitely something to look into; it's not an 'environmental' issue, it's a money issue. Saving money is its own reward.
So, my suggestions:
1. Pay for an energy audit. Somebody should come out with a thermal camera and various meters. Expect this to cost a couple hundred, though I think there are some federal programs that you can use to get the money back. There may be state programs. There are some stuff so you can deduct it and any improvements, but consult the experts in the tax field.
The thermal camera can help determine if you have any glaring holes in your home's installation and give you an idea of where to target for improvements. The meters are to determine how much power your various appliances are actually using. Remember, faceplate is their maximum draw, and is for safety. Average can and should be lower. You could have a bum appliance that's just sucking down power. A continuous 1000 watts might not be that noticeable in a major appliance, but will really add up.
If you want to go it yourself, a kill-o-watt can help track down for your 'minor' appliances - anything 120V.
For the AC system, water heater, and such, a clamp ammeter and a hour meter might be your better choice. I say an hour meter because things like a water heater draws the same amount of power whenever it's running, so a hour meter and a bit of multiplication gives you the kwh used.
But if you really want a meter, $90 seems to be the starting point:
http://www.ekmmetering.com/ekm-metering-products/electric-meters-kwh-meters/basic-kwh-meter-100a-120-240-volt-3-wire-60hz-ekm-25ids.html
A Utility style meter is cheaper, but you'd need to buy a mount:
http://www.hialeahmeter.com/eawame.html
Plus a few dollars for extra wiring and such. Get at least a week's worth of readings. Less time on the dryer, more time on the HVAC, because the HVAC varies more by weather.
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Turns out they don't make 240V kill a watts.
I found some multiple-circuit meters, all of them $300-$1000. It might be worth, it but I don't feel like spending the money right now.
My big loads are constant so an hour meter would be fine. Will keep looking.
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I have the same problem. Utility company sends me nastygrams every month telling me how much more energy I use than my neighbors, but that I'm doing better than last year. (that's probably the LED lights) I'm pretty sure it's the electric clothes dryer even tho' the house has natural gas, and the dishwasher. Wife runs the DW half-full even when there are more dirty dishes, and she runs it on the longest hottest cycle with heated dry at the end. (when I run it, I use normal cycle w/o extra heat and with air dry, and the dishes come out cleaner because no water spots.) And in the winter we use electric space heaters a little.
There's not much I can do about the clothes dryer.
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Some home energy use rules of thumb...
1) If your HVAC is more than 15 years old it is likely in need of some serious service, maybe even replacement. At the very least it is probably horribly inefficient compared to current offerings. If it's more than 20 years old, look at replacing it wholesale.
2) If you have less than 8" of insulation in your attic, have some blown in. In most single-story homes about 60% of the heat transfer is through the ceiling.
3) Doors and windows can make a big difference but items 1 and 2 can make a bigger difference for less money.
4) Consider switching your dyer to low heat for almost everything. Dryers will often dry just as well on low heat as they do on high. In fact, you might find your clothes last a little longer due to the reduction in heat damage. The dryer motor pulls some current, sure, but the heating coil is a giant energy black hole.
Back in the early 2000s my home was getting genuinely expensive to run in terms of utilities. I was saving for windows and doors but and HVAC buddy of mine talked me into replacing my 20 yr old HVAC system and having another 8" of insulation blown in the attic. Wow is an understatement. My summer energy use dropped by fully half. The monthly savings paid for the upgrades in about three years.
Also, beware vampire loads. Any piece of modern electronic equipment you have plugged in is using energy even when appearing to be shut off. It's likely only a few tens of milliwatts but collectively they can add up. Lighting is the same way. It's amazing how much juice gets sucked down the line from having a couple of incandescent lamps on all the time. Also, step back and take a fresh look at your home. Sometimes familiarity breeds blindness. An example is old-school nightlights. At 7w each they aren't much on their own, but put one in every room and suddenly you have a 60-100w draw for 8-14 hours every day.
Finally... TVs. Do you have a plasma-based unit (or units) that get a lot of use? It comes as a surprise to most that plasma TVs are almost as bad as old-school CRT sets. Current LED-lit sets use only a fraction of the power. OLEDs even less.
Brad
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Turns out they don't make 240V kill a watts.
I found some multiple-circuit meters, all of them $300-$1000. It might be worth, it but I don't feel like spending the money right now.
My big loads are constant so an hour meter would be fine. Will keep looking.
Put one killa watt on each 120v leg!*
*Don't actually do this. Technically though it could work I think with some creative plug work.
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OK....
First off...
What kind of heating system/cooling system do you have?
How many KwHr do you use in a month, average?
Is your water heater electric? How old is it? When was the last time you flushed it?
How many vampire devices do you have hooked up? AV equipment is NOTORIOUS for chewing through the juice even when it's off.
How old is your refrigerator/freezer?
There's an interesting test that you can do, but it does require some impact on your life.
Go through, room by room, and unplug EVERYTHING in your house.
Then throw the breakers for your stove, your water heater, and your HVAC.
Then take a look at your meter. It should be dead still. If it's not, if it's still spinning, you've either got a phantom circuit somewhere in the house, or you'e got a bridge circuit/outside drain.
http://lifehacker.com/check-your-power-meter-with-everything-off-to-identify-1653212699
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There's an interesting test that you can do, but it does require some impact on your life.
Go through, room by room, and unplug EVERYTHING in your house.
Then throw the breakers for your stove, your water heater, and your HVAC.
Then take a look at your meter. It should be dead still. If it's not, if it's still spinning, you've either got a phantom circuit somewhere in the house, or you'e got a bridge circuit/outside drain.
http://lifehacker.com/check-your-power-meter-with-everything-off-to-identify-1653212699
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JipKJDGtfjc
=D
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Never watched that show....
But I'm not suggesting that he go all Louisville Slugger on his electric meter.
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Almost forgot... a pool pump. Folks don't realize that a pool pump can easily chew through well over $100 worth of electricity a month. Potentially more depending on motor size and state of operation/repair.
Brad
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Never watched that show....
But I'm not suggesting that he go all Louisville Slugger on his electric meter.
I know. I just thought that was an apropos clip for this thread for when zahc goes crazy anyway. =D
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My house is pretty good. Built in '99. There is some insulation in the attic. HVAC about 10 years old.
I have a tankless gas water heater, but electric range and dryer.
I bought a wireless clamp-on meter that I think I can clamp onto individual breakers in my breaker box one at a time to monitor things.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003XOXU02/ref=ya_st_dp_summary?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JipKJDGtfjc
=D
This is what I get for mowing the lawn on my lunch break. Ben beat me to it.
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1) That "$1000 more then your neighbors", is more then what I spend a year on Electricity. :O :O :O
2) Iif you are running your dryer that much, then you need to get a gas dryer, or two.
3) Insulation settles over time. Add an Attic Blanket.
4) If you have electric heat, go for gas furnace. NG is stupid cheap and is expected to stay that way for the foreseeable future due to fracking.
5) Become Me (echoing my Father) to turn the %$@(&*^%#@*& lights off when you leave a room.
6) Vampire devices, all modern electronics are. Unplug game systems, video devices, etc. when not in use.
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Put one killa watt on each 120v leg!*
put one on one leg and multiply by two...
*Don't actually do this. Technically though it could work I think with some creative plug work.
Mostly because they're still limited to 15 Amps.
There is some insulation in the attic.
That doesn't mean that you have "enough". 18" works a lot better than 6".
Oh, and check my first post - I posted a link to a $90 meter, and even a couple $40 ones.
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Turns out they don't make 240V kill a watts.
I found some multiple-circuit meters, all of them $300-$1000. It might be worth, it but I don't feel like spending the money right now.
My big loads are constant so an hour meter would be fine. Will keep looking.
You already have a meter. It's on the outside wall, where the electricity enters the house. Just read it before you fire up the dryer, and again when it shuts off.
Do you have electric heat? If so, do the neighboring houses you're comparing to have electric heat? Electric heat is a killer.
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Question: I have a 1996 Maytag electric dryer that is still working. I mostly use it on the weekends when I do the laundry. Do you think it is worth spending several hundred on a gas dryer? Right now I am planning to wait until the Maytag quits.
I got a new A/C late last year (replaced 21 year old unit). Roof replaced this year. Power use is down quite a bit so far this summer. I switched to a cheaper electric provider also (I had put that off way too long). My June bill was less than half of last year's bill.
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Question: I have a 1996 Maytag electric dryer that is still working. I mostly use it on the weekends when I do the laundry. Do you think it is worth spending several hundred on a gas dryer? Right now I am planning to wait until the Maytag quits.
I got a new A/C late last year (replaced 21 year old unit). Roof replaced this year. Power use is down quite a bit so far this summer. I switched to a cheaper electric provider also (I had put that off way too long). My June bill was less than half of last year's bill.
Electric heat is the same as a dryer. Don't care how fancy you make it. It always takes the same wattage to make the same btu's of heat.
So aside from slight differences in air flow and tumbling of the laundry which might make it dry in a shorter period of time the base unit is most likely going to use the same amount of juice.
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Electric heat is the same as a dryer. Don't care how fancy you make it. It always takes the same wattage to make the same btu's of heat.
So aside from slight differences in air flow and tumbling of the laundry which might make it dry in a shorter period of time the base unit is most likely going to use the same amount of juice.
He was talking about switching from an electric to a gas(presumably natural) unit. NG tends to be cheaper per BTU than electric, but the unit itself is a touch more expensive, I'd install a monoxide detector*, costs a bit more to maintain**, etc...
A longer cycle at lower heat will spend more electricity on the motor for the tumbler, but assuming your air is fairly dry anyways, the higher volume will dry the clothing with less heat.
I'd just find an online comparison tool where you plug in your costs for electricity, natural gas, how many loads a week you do, and such and come to a decision.
*One saved my life once, I have two in my house with 1 oil boiler.
**The old electric dryers with just a timer are basically bulletproof.
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Here's mine for the month of May:
How do you compare to your neighbors?
Yours:
357.00 kWh
Neighbors*:
621.18 kWh
Energy Comparison
*Calculated average among all Constellation customers for your zip code. Where the customer sample size is too small for your zip code, an overall Constellation average is used.
And I pay $.059/kWh. My bill was right at $40.00. Then again, I have gas stove, dryers, and furnace (not used in May), and I channel my father...."Turn off the %@&#%*@& lights when you leave a room !!!" Plus there's only two of us.
YMMV
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I have an all electric townhouse. I'm single, water heater is new, and I have about 30 or so inches of insulation in the attic.
Two dehumidifiers I use occasionally, and I use the central air for a couple of hours in the evening and normally all weekend when I'm hope.
My June bill was 758 KwHr used, for a grand total of just shy of $100 when all of the taxes, fees, and other crap are added in.
The effective electric rate per KwHr is about 11.5 cents when you figure the entire bill vs usage.
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I live in a 2600 sq ft 1955 brick ranch. 8" of insulation in the attic with a blanket on top. 2 full sized fridges, 1 mini fridge, up right deep freezer, ac set to 69 degrees, electric stove, gas dryer and gas water heater. So far have not broke 200 a month for electricity. Just 2 people living here.
We do keep the curtains closed during direct sunlight.
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While morale has not improved with the beatings, the electric bill has =D =D =D:
Your Usage
Last Month
357.00 kWh
Your Usage
This Month
351.00 kWh
Month-to-Month
Difference
⇩6.00 kWh
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I bought a wireless energy meter. It would be useful if it logged data; right now it mainly just guilts us into turning things off. It's pretty crazy when it hits 15kW or more, but even when it seems like nothing is on, it's running 1-2kW. I need to do an isolation test to see where it's all coming from.
I put a $12 hour meter on my upstairs A/C unit. I'm currently experimenting with the thermostat to see how much difference it really makes. Currently it runs about 8 hours per day when the peak temperature is around 100F and it's set at 73F.
Motion-sensing switches are about $12 each so I bought one for the garage lights (250W), but with LEDs everywhere else, I decided $12 would take too long to pay off to make motion sensing switches worth it.