Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on July 07, 2017, 03:42:42 PM
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Do any of the rest of you have lame ass laws in your state regarding tire pressure? In CA, all shops are required to check tire pressure anytime a vehicle comes in for anything and adjust the pressure to whatever the door panel says, no exceptions, all for the stinking environment.
Sometimes it's not a problem, sometimes it is. On my old F250, the door panel states 55F/75R, which was fine when it was loaded, but when it was empty, that pressure in the rear was like driving a giant vibrator. I always had to deflate the rear tires when I got home from any service.
On my 4Runner, it wasn't a problem until today. I always kept the OEM tires at the 32F/32R door pressure, but recently swapped to AT tires in an LT rating (same size as the OEM tires). In order to get the same load (as well as better MPG) with them as with the OEMs, they need 44F/44R. When I had it at the dealer today, I asked them if they could leave them alone, but apparently they can get fined if they do, so down they went to 32/32. Which is not only stupid, but can be dangerous, because at that PSI, the LT tires will generate a LOT of extra heat at highway speeds. Not to mention it knocks the MPG down by nearly 2, which is exactly opposite the effect the law is supposed to have.
Anyway, just a rant on another stupid enviro law that sets "save the whales" as a higher priority than engineering, physics, and common sense.
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Here in oHIo, that would be a No. Also Ben, an FYI for you...it is not even a law but a regulation put in place by CARB. The same people that brought all of us, via the federal EPA, the gas cans that cannot pour gas.
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https://www.arb.ca.gov/cc/tire-pressure/faq.pdf (https://www.arb.ca.gov/cc/tire-pressure/faq.pdf)
Hey Ben are your tires inflated with nitrogen? If so check this out:
Q: What happens if a customer needs to fill their tires with nitrogen and I don’t
have a nitrogen inflation service? Do I now have to provide a nitrogen inflation
service?
A: No, a customer may refuse the inflation portion of the service if a
nitrogen system is not available at the time of service. ASPs are still subject to
the other regulation requirements. The tires will still need to be checked and it
will also need to be noted on the invoice that the nitrogen inflation service was
not available at the time of the service.
Also you can refuse the service:
Q: What happens if a customer doesn’t want me to check their tires?
A: A customer may decline the check and inflate service if they affirm that
a tire pressure services has been performed in the last 30 days or they will
perform a tire pressure service within the next 7 days. If a tire inflation
service was not performed, the automotive service provider must indicate
on the vehicle service invoice why the service was not completed.
They (CARB) *expletive deleted*ing idiots:
Q: Do we have to wait until the tires are cool before performing the check and
inflate service?
A: ARB acknowledges that the temperature of a vehicles tire can make a
significant real-world difference when inflating the tire. Despite this fact
the regulation requires that tires be inflated to the recommended pressure
regardless of the tire temperature. ASPs are not required to wait until the
tires reach a cool temperature before performing the service.
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Hey Ben are your tires inflated with nitrogen? If so check this out:
Hey, that's a good tip. I don't use N, but green caps are cheap enough to buy. =D
Though quite a few places around here have Nitrogen. Funny, my tire shop inflated them correctly when they installed them, so it seems that they were fine with ignoring the reg and inflating to proper pressure. Also, from what you quoted, it appears the Toyota dealer was doing a CYA thing. Next time I'm in there, I'm gonna bring the language with me.
I guess on the "glass half full" side, this isn't as bad as the #*{#%*(#*(% gas can nozzles.
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Here is the actual regulation: https://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2009/tirepres09/tirefinalreg.pdf (https://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2009/tirepres09/tirefinalreg.pdf)
Check out (d).(5).(a) and (d).(5).(b)
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Take a sharpie to the door sticker.
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Take a sharpie to the door sticker.
My thought was that ordering a custom metal plate or printing a sticker the put over the OEM figure would be inexpensive and could look official enough.
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Here is the actual regulation: https://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2009/tirepres09/tirefinalreg.pdf (https://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2009/tirepres09/tirefinalreg.pdf)
Check out (d).(5).(a) and (d).(5).(b)
Thanks Andy. Saved to my phone. :)
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Thanks Andy. Saved to my phone. :)
You are welcome.
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So, wait a second...
California says that the door sticker MUST be followed?
No matter what the tire wall says?
Then California needs to adopt a law that says that ONLY OEM tires can be used on a vehicle, because the )(_*&$#*&(^)(*&%$^ door sticker ONLY applies to OEM tires that came on THAT particular vehicle THAT particular year!
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Do any of the rest of you have lame ass laws in your state regarding tire pressure? In CA, all shops are required to check tire pressure anytime a vehicle comes in for anything and adjust the pressure to whatever the door panel says, no exceptions, all for the stinking environment.
Sometimes it's not a problem, sometimes it is. On my old F250, the door panel states 55F/75R, which was fine when it was loaded, but when it was empty, that pressure in the rear was like driving a giant vibrator. I always had to deflate the rear tires when I got home from any service.
On my 4Runner, it wasn't a problem until today. I always kept the OEM tires at the 32F/32R door pressure, but recently swapped to AT tires in an LT rating (same size as the OEM tires). In order to get the same load (as well as better MPG) with them as with the OEMs, they need 44F/44R. When I had it at the dealer today, I asked them if they could leave them alone, but apparently they can get fined if they do, so down they went to 32/32. Which is not only stupid, but can be dangerous, because at that PSI, the LT tires will generate a LOT of extra heat at highway speeds. Not to mention it knocks the MPG down by nearly 2, which is exactly opposite the effect the law is supposed to have.
Anyway, just a rant on another stupid enviro law that sets "save the whales" as a higher priority than engineering, physics, and common sense.
Interesting. My old VW bug ran 15 lbs. front 17 lbs. rear. Handling was supposed to get squirrley if you varied from that.
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So, wait a second...
California says that the door sticker MUST be followed?
No matter what the tire wall says?
Then California needs to adopt a law that says that ONLY OEM tires can be used on a vehicle, because the )(_*&$#*&(^)(*&%$^ door sticker ONLY applies to OEM tires that came on THAT particular vehicle THAT particular year!
You begin to see my frustration...
Though you can get plenty of aftermarket tires that are to OEM spec, so it's not necessarily that exact tire, but that size, type, etc. to match load ratings and other specs of the vehicle. From perusing the 4Runner forums in my tire search, I saw Toyota used several brands of the same OEM tire type for my vehicle, all with the 32psi spec. But you are correct in that they go through a surprising (to me) amount of engineering analyses to match tires to vehicles. I never, until recently, knew how complicated that was.
I did a ton of research before I bought this latest set of tires and learned a whole lot about pressure differences between P and LT tires for various reasons beyond load. On my trucks I have always had LT tires and just swapped them to the same type, so never worried about pressure beyond load. It was going from the OEM P tires to LT on the 4Runner that sent me down the rabbit hole on how critical pressures were (such as the aforementioned high speed heat build up) when you're looking beyond things like payload capacity.
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AFAIK there's no law here, but whenever I take my truck in for service I have to check the tire pressure afterwards because often they will mess with it. The truck came from the factory with P255/70R16 and I replaced them with LT215/85R16D. (the speedometer was fine with that.) As you can imagine, the skinny LT tires are severely underinflated at 30 PSI or whatever the door sticker says. I normally run them at about 55.
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Sssssssshhhhhh dammit. Otherwise Illinois might implement that stupid idea here....
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Wow. I have been living in free states so long I forget what other people go through.
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So, wait a second...
California says that the door sticker MUST be followed?
No matter what the tire wall says?
Then California needs to adopt a law that says that ONLY OEM tires can be used on a vehicle, because the )(_*&$#*&(^)(*&%$^ door sticker ONLY applies to OEM tires that came on THAT particular vehicle THAT particular year!
Tire walls don't state the recommended pressure for a particular vehicle. The sidewall only shows the maximum pressure to which the tire should be inflated. That's usually a lot higher than where anyone would run it, unless carrying an extremely heavy load at high speed for a long distance.
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California says that the door sticker MUST be followed?
No matter what the tire wall says?
Tire wall is the maximum safe pressure, not recommended pressure. Recommended pressure depends on the weight of the vehicle.
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Good point on the tire pressure.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
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California, where reason, logic and physics are suspended.
Next will be a law that says you cannot switch to a tire size that was not what the vehicle came with.
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California, where reason, logic and physics are suspended.
Next will be a law that says you cannot switch to a tire size that was not what the vehicle came with.
Don't give them any ideas... [tinfoil]
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California, where reason, logic and physics are suspended.
Next will be a law that says you cannot switch to a tire size that was not what the vehicle came with.
You can, but only if you switch to a tire that gives better MPG. Or if the tire is locally sourced, free ranging, gluten free, and non-gmo. And it must be offset with carbon credits. And once you switch, you can't switch back to the OEM-spec tires.
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You can, but only if you switch to a tire that gives better MPG. Or if the tire is locally sourced, free ranging, gluten free, and non-gmo. And it must be offset with carbon credits. And once you switch, you can't switch back to the OEM-spec tires.
I hope that's not correct. Those free-ranging tires can be dangerous. I know of more than one instance in which a free-ranging tire has bounced over the median divider, struck an on-coming vehicle, and resulted in a fatal crash.
Tires are generally much better -- and healthier -- when attached to a vehicle. (Even aircraft tires.)