Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Chester32141 on July 19, 2017, 09:04:56 AM
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One of the strangest cases I've heard of ... the shooter has only one possible excuse he could use (thought she had a weapon) yet he is refusing to talk to the investigators ....
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https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/07/19/minnesota-somali-police-officer-refuses-to-give-a-statement-to-investigators/#more-136003
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This case is top of the page in the UK and Australian media that I read.
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I *think* it is pretty standard for officers involved in shootings to be given the *courtesy* of delaying their discussion with investigators. We had an officer involved fatal shooting here that caused a public outcry for justice and the cop that did the shooting not only didn't have to talk to investigators for a while, he was allowed to take a vacation to Hawaii before sitting down with them. Surprisingly he was found to be justified in shooting the Preacher who was investigating the strange dark car parked next to his previously burgled business. >:D
I think this guy will end up being toast Sabaayad though, it still doesn't bring back the dead woman though. :(
bob
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I've been watching this one for a few days. There's an amazing lack of details available.
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http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/18/537863372/american-nightmare-how-a-u-s-police-shooting-is-roiling-australia?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170718
Good article about the Oz reaction to all this.
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What really surprises me about the reaction to this case is that I've not seen any tweets celebrating the fact that a white person's privilege was revoked. 'Cuz that's where we are now.
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Bogies been posting a lot of fringe stuff about this on FaceBook, but I haven't been able to find very many actual details.
It sure has the feel of a jumpy cop shooting someone and them closing ranks again.
This will, I fear, end up opening the rift between LE and regular folks even farther. It shouldn't be a race thing, but the fact this was a pretty blonde girl will shake up a lot of folks that might otherwise write it off.
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"Not enough details" is right.
May I offer the humble suggestion that the details were deliberately Left out of the paper's story?
Officers investigate a 911 call.
They hear a shot loud noise nearby.
"Pretty blonde girl" drives by.
The "Somali" Officer shoots her.
Turns out she's an Australian national.
Rage ensues.
Reporter gets a raise (rise, in GB lingo).
Editor gets pat on back by publisher.
Sales department cites raise in circulation to get adverts.
Hm.
Terry drums fingers on desk.
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From the NPR article linked above:
As MPR's Doualy Xaykaothao has reported, the Australian yoga and meditation instructor — who went by the name Justine Damond in her professional life — was shot and killed by Minneapolis Police Officer Mohamed Noor. He and a fellow officer had been responding to a 911 call Saturday night.
Tuesday evening, a state agency investigating the shooting said the other officer on the scene, Matthew Harrity, told investigators that when they arrived, he was startled by a loud sound near the patrol car. He said immediately after the noise Justine Ruszczyk approached Harrity's side — the driver's side — of the car. Harrity said at that point, Noor fired his gun through the open driver's window, striking the woman.
Sounds like a very jumpy cop who drew and fired while still seated in his cruiser.
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Sounds like a very jumpy cop who drew and fired while still seated in his cruiser.
Because white Hispanic black men are racist-afraid of black men white women.
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What makes the most sense to me, based on the changing story and the few avaialble details, is he had his gun out and finger on the trigger for no obvious reason, and was startled by something (fireworks?) and negligently pulled the trigger. He could have just as easily shot his partner.
Affirmative action cop. His only qualification was probably that he was Somali, and the mayor wanted a Somali cop to demonstrate how progressive she is.
The silence from the union is deafening. :police:
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I also like he how apparently drew and fired right across his partner in the drivers seat of the cruiser.
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I find his refusing to speak to the investigators odd because I can only think of one defense. I think repeating "I thought she had a gun" as often as possible and as convincingly as possible would be the only possible response ... Refusing to speak leaves room for him to say something different if and when he decides to speak ...
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This whole thing is totally bizarre.
I seriously can't think of any valid reason for that cop to have his gun out in the car next tot his partner.
It is notable that the shooter had 21 months on the job, and the partner he almost killed is a 1 year rookie. Seems to me, neither one of them is particularly competent.
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I've read two (or three) articles on this incident that reported Noor had three previous complaints filed against him. He doesn't sound like a poster child for good police work.
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Well, the important thing is that both officers went home safely after their shift.
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(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20108312_2314618335430426_1738696965958034987_n.jpg?oh=ddce630888cb52135d3cfd1c000b0e69&oe=5A0F284A)
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20229096_10155439156110502_2280431989204809704_n.jpg?oh=ab908f0430e29db91d15dd33e913230a&oe=59C6748C)
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OK. I'll defend the cop.
1. Not talking to investigators immediatly is normal. Just like you, Joe Citizen, shouldn't talk to investigators immediatly after a traumatic event.
2. Complaints against cops are normal. Every cop gets a complaint filed against him. It doesn't mean anything if there is no disciplinary action taken.
3. Gun drawn in car. I would too, if the situation needed it. Drawing a handgun while seated and belted in to a car is a slow process. Many people and cops will draw their guns well in advance of an actual threat so that they will be ahead of the curve.
4. Shooting across partner. Not always the best plan, but you have to do what you have to do. I would rather have my partner shoot across me than get shot by a bad guy.
5. Finger on the trigger? We have no proof of that.
There are so many details missing from this story that no one here can offer a valid opinion. You don't like it when "the left" does it, so you shouldn't do it either.
My huge disclaimer: The cop could be a total loser who is completely in the wrong. If he is, my points above are still valid until proven otherwise. If the cop did screw up, then he should be punished for it.
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If the cop did screw up, then he should be punished for it.
But he probably won't be, for the same reason he apparently wasn't disciplined for the three other complaints ... Somali.
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Well since the IQ of the average Somalian is 68. Which is considered "Borderline Intellectual Functioning".
I'm not expecting a great explanation.
https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country/so-somalia (https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country/so-somalia)
http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iqclassifications.htm (http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iqclassifications.htm)
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Well since the IQ of the average Somalian is 68. Which is considered "Borderline Intellectual Functioning".
I'm not expecting a great explanation.
https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country/so-somalia (https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country/so-somalia)
http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iqclassifications.htm (http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iqclassifications.htm)
I've been involved discussing this elsewhere.
1. He has a college degree, just not in law enforcement. He's smart, at least for a Somalian.
2. His partner says that fireworks were going off, which is what she had called the cops for.
I say it's a lot like the Castile case, and will probably end the same way. A cop in MN has free reign to shoot people for being 'scared'.
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I've been involved discussing this elsewhere.
1. He has a college degree, just not in law enforcement. He's smart, at least for a Somalian.
2. His partner says that fireworks were going off, which is what she had called the cops for.
I say it's a lot like the Castile case, and will probably end the same way. A cop in MN has free reign to shoot people for being 'scared'.
She called the cops because she thought someone was being assaulted in the alley. Fireworks probably were going off; this is shortly after July 4 and Minnesotans love our fireworks smuggled in from Wisconsin. (I buy mine in Missouri) Nobody should be surprised by fireworks in July.
At some point, the victims' families are gonna start taking matters into their own hands. When justice is impossible, vengeance is back on the table. If they start shooting random cops, that's bad. If they specifically target the ones murdering their family members and getting away with it, good for them; they are taking out the garbage that no one else will.
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A cop in MN the U.S. has free reign to frame, beat & shoot people and dogs for being 'scared'.
FTFY.
That point you speak of? I think its coming sooner rather than later. When it does, woe to America's largest street gang.
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OK. I'll defend the cop.
1. Not talking to investigators immediatly is normal. Just like you, Joe Citizen, shouldn't talk to investigators immediatly after a traumatic event.
2. Complaints against cops are normal. Every cop gets a complaint filed against him. It doesn't mean anything if there is no disciplinary action taken.
3. Gun drawn in car. I would too, if the situation needed it. Drawing a handgun while seated and belted in to a car is a slow process. Many people and cops will draw their guns well in advance of an actual threat so that they will be ahead of the curve.
4. Shooting across partner. Not always the best plan, but you have to do what you have to do. I would rather have my partner shoot across me than get shot by a bad guy.
5. Finger on the trigger? We have no proof of that.
There are so many details missing from this story that no one here can offer a valid opinion. You don't like it when "the left" does it, so you shouldn't do it either.
The only point with which I've a serious quibble is number 5. We have some evidence for that.
As for the rest, curmudgeon rage matters. Don't you dare question our non-experience!
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Author says take it with a grain of salt, but here: http://www.those-who-serve.com/2017/07/19/noor_ois_minneapolis/ (http://www.those-who-serve.com/2017/07/19/noor_ois_minneapolis/)
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The department threw Noor under the bus and backed over him. I will post details when I get home.
Harteau took a firm position on the shooting: "Justine didn't have to die." And Noor's actions "go against who we are as a department."
At one point, she reiterated that "we are talking about one individual's interactions." A clear departure from past officer shootings.
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FOX is saying at least 2 shots were fired. Don't know where they got that information, but if it's true that means it wasn't "just" a negligent discharge; the shots were fired intentionally.
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Minneapolis police chief: "Justine Damond didn't have to die."
http://www.startribune.com/justine-damond-didnt-have-to-die-says-minneapolis-police-chief-janee-harteau-justine-ruszczyk/435651393/
... but she stops short of calling the shooting unjustified.
Some want Chief Harteau to be fired as well:
http://www.startribune.com/the-latest-some-call-for-minneapolis-police-chief-s-ouster/435906023/
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She can't be fired...she resigned..
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The Police Chief resigned.... no doubt from community/boss pressure. This is a beautiful example of the landmines when playing identity politics.
The Chief, a Native American Lesbian, hires a black naturalized Muslim Somali who ultimately shoots and kills an unarmed white female tourist in what appears to be a rather questionable chain of events.
When this officer was hired, no doubt she and the rest of the command staff patted themselves on their backs and congratulated each other about how enlightened they are. And then disaster strikes...
It really doesn't matter if any of the non merit factors have any role in this fiasco; the damage is done.
Identity politics crashes and burns.
And no one will learn from this... a bit like socialism. It's just not the right people playing this game; we'll get it right.
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The city council would have fired the chief if she hadn't resigned. I hope they don't think this fixes everything.
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The mayor Betsy Hodges said she requested the resignation. The assistant chief was promoted to chief. Members of the city council were also calling f0or the resignation. I am not sure if they moved to do anything officially.
The Austrailian lady was outside her home, she was going to get married here soon, so not a tourist.
Right now as I type there is a pretty big protest in downtown Minneapolis headed for Mayor's press conference demanding Mayor & Police Union President resign.
I have heard some pretty solid rumors from many decent quality sources that Noor was an extreme diversity hire that would have seriously failed otherwise. I plan on tracking down his public employment info to confirm. Also, a few sources, some media, some local people I know say Noor had a really bad personality, was jumpy, and didn't get along with his neighbors or people in the department.
Edit to add: The protesters drove the Mayor off the stage with disruptions.
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I am heartbroken that it took this level of tragedy to get Joe Average up in arms to protest this kind of abomination.
Way passed time for pitchforks and torches when something like this happens.
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This is the third time it has happened in Minneapolis in recent memory. One lowlife that deserved it in every sense of the word. One innocent black permit holder, Castile, and now a white woman.
https://twitter.com/StribJany/status/888576621984305153 The mayor was chased off the stage three times. Keep in mind this mayor is ultra liberal and advocating rioting after Trump won the election, as well as rioting after the first Low life I mentioned died and the 4th precinct burned.
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(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/20270127_10155571777089222_1924815_n.jpg?oh=0c81b5da51104ec539cba6346894432d&oe=597513D1)
Dehn is running for mayor and is one of two persons likely to win. He is a convicted felon (burglary) and admitted drug addict. He wants to dismantle law enforcement as we know it. literally get rid of most of it all together.
"Crime is not a product of individual morality but the consequence of scarcity in our society. We must divest resources, disarm officers, and dismantle the inherent violence of our criminal justice system which continues to uphold white supremacy. Our approach to public safety must reflect a belief that our communities are safer when they have housing, clean air and water, access to education and employment, and quality healthcare."
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First comment on Hodge's post about the protests: "We clearly can be sure everyone is safe even when we can't hold a damn press conference in City Hall after hours."
All nonpress persons were kicked out of the meeting room.
hodges: "I will not resign"
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Small wonder the Chief was asked to resign. She seemed to have a bit of a cognitive disconnect:
“This is about an individual officer’s actions. It is not about race or ethnicity,” Harteau said. “We have a very robust training and hiring process. This officer completed that training very well, just like every officer. He was very suited to be on the street.”
It seems patently obvious that Officer Noor was not at all very suited to be on the street. In fact, he's probably not very suited to be dog catcher.
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Another thing missing from this story is the usual character assassination of the victim.
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Another thing missing from this story is the usual character assassination of the victim.
True enough.
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Another thing missing from this story is the usual character assassination of the victim.
I'm going to assume she doesn't have priors and isn't a drug user. (Though as a yoga instructor, who knows?)
I'm also betting it has to do with her sex rather than her race. (See the permit holder murdered by the LVPD a few years ago)
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It was night, and she was reportedly wearing her pajamas. Maybe Noor thought she was a ghost.
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Another thing missing from this story is the usual character assassination of the victim.
She's a yoga instructor. Isn't that enough ??
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I think Blue Lives Matter took a stab at character assassination. Someone, maybe them, was trying and failed to link her yoga practice to either a Satanic cult or the occult.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/07/22/palmisano-police-chief/amp/ lots of protests starting. This could not have happened to a more screwy mayor, she may as well have been the mayor of a place like Berkeley with her views and antics.
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(https://i1.wp.com/www.twincities.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/20292805_838867072180_4302843709454512979_n.jpg)
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http://kstp.com/news/mohamed-noor-justine-damond-shooting-minneapolis-decision-/4833117/?cat=1
Charged with 3rd-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. He turned himself in.
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http://kstp.com/news/mohamed-noor-justine-damond-shooting-minneapolis-decision-/4833117/?cat=1
Charged with 3rd-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. He turned himself in.
Hopefully at least the 2nd degree manslaughter might stick?
edit: 2nd degree manslaughter:
609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:
(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or
I remember this coming up before that 2nd degree manslaughter would be a hard case actually, as it requires 'consciously'.
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
Here we have the requirement for a "depraved mind, without regard for human life"
I can see both of these actually being tough to convict a police officer saying he got scared and thought he was defending himself and his fellow officer...
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edit: 2nd degree manslaughter:
I remember this coming up before that 2nd degree manslaughter would be a hard case actually, as it requires 'consciously'.
I think choosing to draw a lethal weapon (firearm), point said lethal weapon in the direction of a human being, and pull the trigger without assessing for a threat would qualify as "consciously."
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Usually in these cases the racial mix between shooter and victim is the other way. This will be an interesting one to watch - I wonder how it’ll compare to the hung jury in South Carolina.
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Update on this case:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/06/former-minneapolis-cops-behavior-before-shooting-death-australian-woman-raised-concerns-court-filings-say.html
According to court documents, psychiatrists warned against hiring the guy, his training officers had misgivings about him, and he pointed a gun at a guy during a routine traffic stop in his first three months.
BUT DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH!, so the politicians had him pushed through so they could tout how "diverse" and "welcoming" they are. After all, it's not them that's going to bear the cost of an incompetent and dangerous police officer.
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It's been over a year and that piece of excrement is still walking around free? That's disgraceful.