Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on October 23, 2017, 10:26:06 AM
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So four soldiers died, but only one is making the news in just a terrible way.
I'm always at the forefront of "Trump needs to stop getting in twitter wars", but I'm not sure he's doing more than defending himself here. This congresswoman is a nutcase, and I wonder if she hasn't just been using the wife in this whole thing.
Did Trump really forget the soldier's name? My guess would be that maybe he had trouble with the name. I've seen him stumble on unfamiliar names and terms before. The soldier's first name was "La David". How much do you want to bet Trump hesitated and called him "David" on the phone call, and that was "not knowing his name"?
In the meantime, I assume he made calls to the families of the other soldiers, with no congresscritters present, and those seem to have gone okay.
I also think it's interesting that Gen Kelly is somehow not allowed, according to the left, to give an opinion in this matter.
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1. Kongresskritter Fredericka Wilson is an arrogant, smarmy, Trump hating **** who heard part of a private conversation between President Trump and a widow, and publicly repeated the conversation. There is NO DOUBT she did it for the purpose of hurting the President.
She should be ashamed. But she won't be.
2. Trump should have stayed off the twitter and let General Kelly do his speech, which the General did very well.
Trump doesn't need a twitter war with a war widow. What he purportedly told the widow wasn't that awful, and he should have just said he was sorry if she took it badly, but only meant to be respectful.
No one believes Trump intended malice.
3. A war widow cried. Yes, they do that. When my father died, my family all cried. When my nephew died, my sister cried. When my brother in law died, my sister cried again. When my mother died, my sister and I cried.
See a pattern here? /sarcasm off.
We all want to say comforting words to the bereaved. We don't all have glib, golden tongues. Then again, even saying "the right thing" can cause tears.
4. The media is using this to attack a unpopular president. Surprised?
I didn't think so.
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The real question is; how do they make this into an impeachable offense? ;/
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All of our previous presidents were weaklings, they tried to avoid public feuds with gold star families but finally in Trump we have a fighter.
He's willing to stand up to grieving widows (on twitter at least) and that's why, despite my previous skepticism about him, I am 100% aboard the MAGA Trump train now. :P
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Um, I thought it was a Congresswoman/rock star that picked a fight with Trump, not any of the Gold Star folks. ???
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Um, I thought it was a Congresswoman/rock star that picked a fight with Trump, not any of the Gold Star folks. ???
Yeah, I'm not seeing him picking a fight, let alone with a widow.
Incidentally, having lost a loved one doesn't give a person unimpeachable moral authority. Cindy Sheehan's views are wrong, despite having lost a son.
(And General Kelly's views on this matter are correct, regardless of the fact that he lost a son.)
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Along with Trump's other faults, I'm willing to accept that he may be quite clumsy, when it comes to condolence calls. Given his past behavior, I suspect he will now make a point of calling the family of every soldier that dies on the job, from here on out. And we'll hear more recordings of said calls. Let's hope he gets better at it.
For those who already believe Trump is the quintessence of evil, it's not difficult for them to believe he would call a grieving war widow with the specific intention of disrespecting her, and her loved one. Thankfully, that is not a rational view of the matter. Worst case scenario is that he put his foot in his mouth. Ugly, but not a national crisis.
I'm more interested in how the left is now making this his Benghazi moment. An interesting comparison for them to make, no? ;)
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When Democrats use the techniques they learned from Goebbels - was that cultural appropriation?
(With apologies to fistful.)
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I've had to do both. Make the notification call and the condolence call. There is no worse duty.
I will never forget the look of the pure hate the father of the soldier that was killed in a vehicle accident in Korea had for me. (This was in Sep of 1991. I'm sure he thought his son would be "safe" in Korea, since it was after the first Gulf War.) I rehearsed the script and I'm sure I delivered it word for word. The only thing I added was expressing my personal condolences for his loss. I'm glad the local Baptist preacher came along. I'm glad he told me to leave and that he would stay with the dad, and get a ride later. I'd have bet anything that man would have kicked my ass if not for that preacherman. And I would have let him.
And there is nothing worse then looking at the family and trying to find the words to let them know that you were the leader/friend of the loved one, and how sorry you are for their loss. There is the look that asks the question "Why are you still here and my son/daughter/mother/father is dead and you are still here ?? Why them and not you ?? Why didn't you keep them alive ??" And you simply can't answer them.
I'm not sure what I said, because there is nothing you can say in that moment that's "Right".
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I've already seen where they are blaming the ambush because of Trump's travel ban adding Chad.... Did they even look at a map to see where Tongo Tongo, Niger is before opening their soup coolers ?? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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We all want to say comforting words to the bereaved. We don't all have glib, golden tongues. Then again, even saying "the right thing" can cause tears.
I could be wrong, but I think on a personal level Trump is possibly a decent human being, and I think it's a certainty that he took the trouble to call the widow, rather than (or in addition to) sending a form letter, with the intention of paying his respects and offering sympathy. The problem, of course, is trying to figure out what the "right" thing to say is. (See Amy Schumer's comment two posts above.) My brother and sister take the easy way out -- they head to a Hallmark store, buy a sympathy card, sign it, and mail it. Done.
When the deceased is someone close, or married or related to someone close (as when my wife died three years ago), I think that approach is somewhat lacking. I refuse to just buy a card and mail it. If I'm going to send a sympathy card, it's going to be a note that I write, myself, by hand (in cursive), doing my fumbling best to say "the right thing." But I never know if I'm really writing the right words, I have no way of knowing if my words will bring comfort or if the recipient will read my heartfelt condolences and say "WTF?"
I believe Trump did say what he is reported to have said -- that the soldier was where he wanted (or chose) to be. And I think to many -- perhaps even most -- people that would be comforting. I'm sure the guy didn't want to be dead, but he did enlist, and he was with his unit -- which for most soldiers becomes their second (or even first) family. It seems to me to be no different than saying that Dale Earnhardt died doing what he loved -- driving a race car. If someone had said that to Earnhardt's widow (and I'll bet more than one person did), would it have been reported in the press as insulting and disrespectful? I don't think so.
This entire episode is disgraceful. It should be categorized under "No good deed shall go unpunished." Trump tried to reach out to the widow, to say something he hoped would be comforting about someone he didn't know personally and had never heard of before he got the first report on the incident, and instead of giving him credit for at least reaching out -- the anti-Trump liberals are using the widow to hammer Trump.
Shame on them. A pox on their houses.
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The problem, of course, is trying to figure out what the "right" thing to say is.
The bigger problem is that, in the immediate aftermath of a death, there's very little someone who's essentially a stranger can say to a close family member with any certainty it won't be exactly the wrong thing at the moment.
It's hard enough for the immediate family and closest friends to know what to say to each other at that time. Any sincere expression of concern from a stranger can be taken wrong, though it should be appreciated in retrospect.
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I believe Trump did say what he is reported to have said -- that the soldier was where he wanted (or chose) to be. And I think to many -- perhaps even most -- people that would be comforting. I'm sure the guy didn't want to be dead, but he did enlist, and he was with his unit -- which for most soldiers becomes their second (or even first) family.
I haven't seen verification of exactly what was said, but what the congresswoman and the press seem to be reporting is that Trump told the widow, "He knew what he signed up for". Again, that's just what I've seen reported.
I'm guessing Trump may have asked advice of his military staff on what to say. "He knew what he signed up for" might be something they talked about. I don't expect that it would have had any negative connotations to them (in fact, perhaps, positive connotations as in, "he was doing the job he wanted to do, and doing what needed to be done").
Someone not in the military, or that dislikes the military (hello congresswoman) might not take that statement in a positive light. I suspect though, that if the widow took that call sans the congresswoman, the phrase would not be getting the negative attention from the usual suspects that it is getting now.
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I'm guessing Trump may have asked advice of his military staff on what to say. "He knew what he signed up for" might be something they talked about. I don't expect that it would have had any negative connotations to them (in fact, perhaps, positive connotations as in, "he was doing the job he wanted to do, and doing what needed to be done").
That's my take on it.
Someone not in the military, or that dislikes the military (hello congresswoman) might not take that statement in a positive light. I suspect though, that if the widow took that call sans the congresswoman, the phrase would not be getting the negative attention from the usual suspects that it is getting now.
I think without the congresswoman's prompting the widow might have taken the words in the spirit in which I believe they were intended.
Now the bereaved widow is claiming that her husband's casket may be empty! Where do they come up with this [bleep]?
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So why is the congresswoman in the car first off? They smelled blood, just like when the SEAL got killed earlier this year. The storyline is that this is Trump's Benghazi. Now who put troops in Nigeria again?
Bush 43 seemed to really care and took a lot of unannounced visits to visit wounded. And the press still attacked him when they found out. If Trump rescued a kitten out of a tree the story would be Trump hates dogs.
I will just sit here and wait for someone to get offended over the name Niger. * South Park People who annoy you...
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If Trump rescued a kitten out of a tree...
It would be nothing but 'pussy grabbing' headlines for weeks. :angel:
Now the lamestream fakenews liberal media is trying to knock Trump for express shipping his condolence letters (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/more-on-the-white-house-clean-up-operation). I doubt Obama ever bothered to send them that fast.
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"I will just sit here and wait for someone to get offended over the name Niger."
I was laughing my ass off this morning. The MSM has already got a new pronunciation....Nahgheer.
PS: Niger is part of the Obama Policy disaster by the way. An outshoot of the wonderful Arab Spring and the protection of ISIS and other Islamic murderous bastards like Boko Haram and others by that anti American bastard, Obama. Sending our troops into harms way with no offensive plan or back up for any help. They were fortunate to actually have ammo for their firearms.
As for Trump and the widow...it is pathetic. The Democrats have suborned that poor woman's grief by twisting her to support their political evil. It's disgusting and the media is even worse.
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(https://i.imgur.com/xS0L1.png)
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Is that what it means?
I guess I was wrong then when I thought that other African country sure had a lot of guys named Chad on their team.
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The media and members of congress using this for their agenda is deplorable and disgusting, but not unpredictable given the shitshow that follows the CinC around.
Gen. Kelly said in his speech that he advised the President not to make those phone calls, but rather send notes and let the lower levels of the Chain of Command handle the calls. That was probably good advice.
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Gen. Kelly said in his speech that he advised the President not to make those phone calls, but rather send notes and let the lower levels of the Chain of Command handle the calls. That was probably good advice.
In hindsight, I would very much agree. Otherwise, whatever complaints I have about Trump putting his mouth in gear before engaging his brain, I would have to say that he meant well here and wanted to be respectful. Though he probably should have taken some lessons from George W Bush. That guy, whatever other complaints I might have about him, seemed to be really good about things like this.
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"I will just sit here and wait for someone to get offended over the name Niger."
I was laughing my ass off this morning. The MSM has already got a new pronunciation....Nahgheer.
That's just their usual way of pronouncing foreign place names. For some reason, conservatives make fun of them for trying to ape local pronunciation of foreign locales, but still like to correct people for saying things like "Noo Ore-leens" or "Loo-ee-vill".
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Quote from: French G. on October 23, 2017, 07:03:56 PM
If Trump rescued a kitten out of a tree... End quote
It would be nothing but 'pussy grabbing' headlines for weeks. :angel:
:rofl:
Made my day. eLEVENTY tHANKS
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That's just their usual way of pronouncing foreign place names. For some reason, conservatives make fun of them for trying to ape local pronunciation of foreign locales, but still like to correct people for saying things like "Noo Ore-leens" or "Loo-ee-vill".
A long time ago I went to school with a guy from Louisville. He pronounced it (as best I can type phonetics) "Loo'-uh-vul."
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A long time ago I went to school with a guy from Louisville. He pronounced it (as best I can type phonetics) "Loo'-uh-vul."
And if you tell people you're going to Loo-ee-vill, they'll correct you. "No, you have to say loo'uh-vull!"
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Around here, Louisville, CO is pronounced with the "s."
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Huntsville, AL and Huntsville, TX are pronounced differently but it's subtle. In Alabama, the emphasis is on the first syllable and the second is cut really short. In Texas, both syllables are have the same same slight emphasis like it's two words "Hunts Ville"
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Somebody ask Rocketman how they pronounce "Lebanon" in Oregon. :laugh:
People in Moscow, ID seem to prefer to use "Moscoe".
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The left is despicable. From the Federalist: (http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/24/lefts-gold-star-attacks-trump-administration-suspend-good-faith-common-sense/)
We have option A: President Trump called a grieving widow, when there was no requirement to do so, with the sole intention of insulting her. He purposefully said hurtful words out of cruelty. The left was right all along, and our President is utterly despicable.
And we have option B: President Trump elected to call a grieving widow because he empathized with her and he wished to convey his deep appreciation for her husband’s sacrifice. His comments were well intended, but possibly came out wrong. He’s a human being who might not always say the right thing to a person who has every reason to be inconsolable.
And then there’s General Kelly. Again, we have option A: Trump forced Kelly to speak out against Congresswoman Wilson. His emotional moments were faked for the cameras. He knowingly dishonored the memory of his dead son in order to keep a job that by all accounts isn’t in jeopardy.
And option B: John Kelly, a Gold Star parent whose son was killed in combat, was upset and insulted by a Congresswoman’s politicization of a fallen American soldier. The emotion on his face was brutally real, because the loss of a child leaves a wound that never truly heals. Kelly would have refused to propagate a message he didn’t believe in, as any decent parent would, if propagation meant cheapening his son’s sacrifice.
Even if the lefties don't believe option A they'll still say it.
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The left is despicable. From the Federalist: (http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/24/lefts-gold-star-attacks-trump-administration-suspend-good-faith-common-sense/)
The Occam’s Razor setup is cute but what he really seems to be demonstrating is how to setup a false dichotomy.
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Somebody ask Rocketman how they pronounce "Lebanon" in Oregon. :laugh:
Oh, heck -- ask him how they pronounce "Oregon" in Oregon.
Around here, we pronounce it "OR'-ah-gon". Some years ago I worked with a husband and wife pair who were from there. They pronounced it something like "or-EE'-gun..
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Oh, heck -- ask him how they pronounce "Oregon" in Oregon.
Around here, we pronounce it "OR'-ah-gon". Some years ago I worked with a husband and wife pair who were from there. They pronounced it something like "or-EE'-gun..
Most people I know out this way (and me) say it more like oaruhgun.
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Leb-a-nun, Orygun.
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Don't ever pronounce Arkansas City, Kansas, as AR-kan-saw, as you would Arkansas. It is pronounced AR-Kansas.