Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Mess Hall => Topic started by: mtnbkr on December 03, 2017, 09:48:59 AM
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I've been on a quest to rediscover the biscuits my grandmother made all my life. Her recipe isn't written down and the notes I took a year or two before her death are lost. I know the basic ingredients, but could never get the biscuits "right". Last year, I got Vivian Howard's cookbook, Deep Run Roots, which has the closest interpretation of the recipe as I've been able to find, including the method for mixing the ingredients. Vivian is from the same region in NC as my family (in fact, she lives in the same town as my mom's sister and her family), so the entire cookbook is chock full of foods I grew up on.
This page shows how it's done,though they use self-rising flour instead of AP and separate baking powder, as well as cooking at a slightly higher temperature... (http://thegraciousposse.com/2017/05/making-biscuits-from-scratch-with-lillie-hardy-of-a-chefs-life/)
I think I need to reduce the baking powder a bit as the biscuits are rising a bit too much. I think the higher cooking temp is worth investigating as well. I left the biscuits in a bit longer as I didn't think they were done enough "by the book".
Vivian Howard's cookbook can be found here and is a good read for background on eastern NC cooking and food culture as well:
https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Run-Roots-Stories-Recipes/dp/0316381101/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
For breakfast today, while I made the biscuits, I simmered some country ham in a lidded pan. When the biscuits were almost read, I transferred the ham to a cast iron pan to give it a light sear. To the drippings and leftover liquid in the first pan, I added a half cup of coffee, a beef bullion cube, and a tablespoon of butter to make my red eye gravy. I simmered this until we were ready to serve breakfast.
This is a breakfast that will keep you going all day. :)
ETA: These are great with molasses, which was my favorite way to eat them growing up.
Also ETA: I went to college not far from where my grandparents lived while they were alive. A few times a year, I'd meet them at a Sunday lunch buffet about halfway between us (Spivey's Corner, NC if you're curious). My grandmother would bring me a big cookie tin packed full of individually wrapped ham biscuits. I miss that. :'(
Chris
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Looks yum.
FYI... Self-rising flour is just flour with baking powder mixed in.
Brad
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Looks yum.
Thanks!
FYI... Self-rising flour is just flour with baking powder mixed in.
I know. It still represents a change in the recipe as I know it.
Chris
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I thought your grandmother used self rising flour? I remember a few years ago when you were working out the recipe and I thought that's what you said then, or was I mistaken?
I also made biscuits for breakfast this morning. But mine came out of a tube!
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Nope, she used AP and baking powder. I remember because I recall the specific brand of baking powder she would use (Clabber Girl).
I also made biscuits for breakfast this morning. But mine came out of a tube!
I'm not a food snob, but I don't like tube biscuits. Virtually all brands and varieties have a common taste profile I don't like. I suspect there's an ingredient necessary for the production and packaging that is the source of the disagreeable flavor.
Chris
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Looks yum.
FYI... Self-rising flour is just flour with baking powder mixed in.
Brad
Soft wheat flour, premixed with baking powder and salt. Using all-purpose flour, you might want to look for White Lily brand, or mix in a little cake flour to lower the protein content.
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If you do come up with actual amounts of the various ingredients, can you please post them? I am not experienced enough with these biscuits to be able to make the estimates that the experienced cooks do; i.e.: a 'palmful' of lard.
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The ingredients as published in the book:
2.5 cups of AP flour
4 teaspoons of baking powder
2/3 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup lard plus more for greasing the pan
1 cup buttermilk
IMO, the baking powder should be reduced to 3 teaspoons. The biscuits I grew up with didn't rise as much as these, though the flavor is correct. I also cooked them a bit longer, but in the video they used a hotter oven temperature, so you may need to experiment a bit.
Chris
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The ingredients as published in the book:
2.5 cups of AP flour
4 teaspoons of baking powder
2/3 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup lard plus more for greasing the pan
1 cup buttermilk
IMO, the baking powder should be reduced to 3 teaspoons. The biscuits I grew up with didn't rise as much as these, though the flavor is correct. I also cooked them a bit longer, but in the video they used a hotter oven temperature, so you may need to experiment a bit.
Chris
Are you using hydrogenated lard (like Armour), or fresh lard from a butcher shop, or Crisco? They'll all work, but they are all different. Mama used Crisco, except when we had lard we'd butchered and rendered ourselves. Our home-rendered lard was harder and whiter than the lard I bought recently at a Mexican market; I don't recall us being all that careful to save the "leaf" fat (from near the kidneys) for baking.
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Hydrogenated lard. It's what's easily available around here and what my grandmother would have been using based on my memory of the tub she scooped it from.
Chris
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I have little experience with lard. In baking, does it make an actual taste or texture difference in using lard vs. Crisco?
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I have little experience with lard. In baking, does it make an actual taste or texture difference in using lard vs. Crisco?
Yes. My grandmother used butter and/or Crisco for her biscuits at various times for various reasons. They weren't as good as the lard-based biscuits.
Chris
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I remember that batch of lard pucks you made some years ago.
Holy crap they were good, but they just oozed lard.
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The current ones are better and less lard-oozy (better technique, not less lard).
Chris
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Holy *expletive deleted*it... Those lard pucks were 12 years ago...
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=1695.0
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Ugh. Time flies...
Chris
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I'm not a food snob, but I don't like tube biscuits. Virtually all brands and varieties have a common taste profile I don't like. I suspect there's an ingredient necessary for the production and packaging that is the source of the disagreeable flavor.
Chris
Grands from the frozen foods section. Surprisingly good, bordering on excellent. No "bisquit from a tube" taste at all. As close to anything homemade as I've ever found. Straight from freezer to oven. Little to no cleanup if you use parchment paper on your baking transport of choice.
Brad
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^^^ I second the Pillsbury Grand biscuits. This is what we use when I make biscuits and gravy; we appreciate being able to pull just four biscuits from the bag and bake them off, as opposed to a whole tube of biscuits.
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I don't think I've tried frozen Grands, but canned Grands are no bueno. There is one frozen biscuit I do like, but the brand escapes me at the moment. They come in two varieties, a thick one (a little thinner than a normal biscuit) and a thin one (about 3/4" thick cooked, perfect for a bit of ham or sausage). Those are good. Like Millcreek, we like being able to cook just what we need vs an entire tube.
That said, I should be watching the bread I eat, so if I'm going to have biscuits, I'd just as soon make my own and have what I want rather than a compromise substitute.
Chris
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I've never even seen frozen Grands...
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"I'm not a food snob, but I don't like tube biscuits. Virtually all brands and varieties have a common taste profile I don't like. I suspect there's an ingredient necessary for the production and packaging that is the source of the disagreeable flavor."
I'm not particularly crazy about them, really, but they're better than not having biscuits at all. I put them under some scrambled eggs, cheese, and ham, so the taste was part of a chorus.
Now that I've learned about frozen biscuits, however, I may give them a try.
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We've never cared much for tube biscuits, either. But brand name frozen biscuits in a bag are usually pretty good. We use them quite a bit when we don't have enough time to make scratch biscuits. Which is most of the time these days.
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We find the frozen Pillsbury Grand biscuits at our local Safeway and Walmart.
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I picked up a 12 pack of the frozen Grands this morning.
They were on sale, 2 packs for $5. I only got one, as I want to make sure that I like them first.
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I made another batch last night. This time, I used 3 teaspoons of baking powder rather than 4 and, by accident, used 1/4cup less flour. I was measuring flour, when my wife and daughter distracted me with something, don't recall what exactly. I forgot about the last 1/2 cup until I was in the kneading phase and was wondering why the dough was so sticky and wet. I incorporated another 1/4 cup, but didn't want to try more than that in case it caused more problems than it solved. The resulting dough was a bit stickier than usual, but manageable. I baked them at 400 rather than 375.
The result was my closest result to my grandmother's biscuits ever. They rose a bit more than hers, but not as much as the previous attempt.
Chris
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I to find the frozen option to be MUCH better than the tube.
That said, I also like making my own. No real recipe, it's a by feel and sight operation. Lard, buttermilk, self rising flour.
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No real recipe, it's a by feel and sight operation. Lard, buttermilk, self rising flour.
That's how my grandmother made them, which is why I didn't have a recipe, only some notes I took while watching her (and later lost). The notes wouldn't capture the "by feel" part. She used AP flour and baking powder (Clabber Girl, the name sticks in my head).
Chris
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I strongly suggest you use a kitchen scale and weigh your ingredients; especially the flour. Use measuring cups or scoops the first time, weigh what you got. Next time just use the scales and make whatever adjustments based on how they turned out last time. "Two and a half cups of flour" can vary quite a bit from one batch to the next.
Grandma was probably practiced enough to adjust the lard and milk on the fly (and not even know she was doing it); you're not and probably never will be, no offense. The precise amounts of salt and baking powder are not critical, you just have to be close with those.
I used to have a knack for making biscuits, and I lost it by not baking them for a few years. And I don't cook them often enough to get it back. Frozen biscuits are so good now, it's annoying ;)
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I strongly suggest you use a kitchen scale and weigh your ingredients; especially the flour. Use measuring cups or scoops the first time, weigh what you got. Next time just use the scales and make whatever adjustments based on how they turned out last time. "Two and a half cups of flour" can vary quite a bit from one batch to the next.
Grandma was probably practiced enough to adjust the lard and milk on the fly (and not even know she was doing it); you're not and probably never will be, no offense. The precise amounts of salt and baking powder are not critical, you just have to be close with those.
What measurements would I use though? There are no "by weight" measurements for these biscuits. Even the volume-based measurements are more approximations than precise measurements. I do know what the dough texture and flavor should be.
I'm not arguing against weighing, it's a valid technique for baking. But in this case what I'm trying to achieve isn't going to benefit from weighing at least until I work out the ratios and my technique. Weighing will aid in repeatability after the other factors are resolved.
FWIW, I'm not unhappy with the results I'm getting now. They're good. I like them and my family raves about them. I'm hunting a white whale at this point.
Chris
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That's why I said weigh whatever you measure out by volume the first time, then that becomes the recipe that you adjust as you go. The dough handling technique is probably as important as the ratios of ingredients. That's the part that I've forgotten how to do :'( I either work the dough too much when I roll them out, or not enough if I try to make "drop biscuits".
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Finally got around to making some of the Frozen Grands. Holy crap are they good. Much better than the tube ones.
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I made a big batch of my biscuits for my parents (in the very kitchen my grandmother would make them my entire life), as well as a normal batch for my inlaws while visiting family the last 8 days.
Thumbs up all around. :)
Chris
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This recipe I worked up for cooking the biscuits in a Dutch oven at camp. Works fine at home too, baking them in the over. I have yet to find a better biscuit. No offense intended toward anyone's grandma. :) I don't weigh. Most of the time I don't measure. I portion the ingredients and mix by eye and feel. just like my grandma did.
Buttermilk Biscuits Version III
2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
2 Teaspoons baking powder
1 tsp baking soda
1 tsp salt
1/3 cup cold lard, or cold Butter
1 Cup cold buttermilk
Mix the dry ingredients. Sift together three times
Chop the cold lard or butter into small chunks and use a fork to blend it into the flour.
Add the buttermilk, and mix well. Dough should have a moist consistency.
Place dough on a floured surface.
knead the dough a few times, then form it into a ball.
By hand, gently press into a thick slab, then fold over three times.
Roll gently, to get a thickness of 3/4 inch. Cut the biscuits with a biscuit cutter. Place on a sheet pan, with the biscuits touching Bake in a preheated 450F oven. About 8 minutes in, brush tops with buttermilk or butter.
Bake till golden brown..
To bake biscuits in a Dutch Oven:
Cut out biscuits and place into a pre-heated 10, or 12" Dutch Oven. Try using 15 briquettes on top, 10 below.