Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 230RN on May 17, 2018, 08:53:32 AM
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For years, it bothered him.
And then Ken Newell got it on video: A man parked at a University of California San Diego permit parking lot without a permit, but with impunity. Why? Because his van had a license plate for people with disabilities.
On the video, the man jogs from the van to Thornton Hospital, apparently late for work.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sdut-disabled-man-caught-using-placard-ucsd-2012jul26-htmlstory.html
Coe [the violator] said he was unaware that the placard allowed him to park in the lot for free, and that he thought he was [only] risking a parking ticket. He said he risked it, because he thought the parking lot was rarely patrolled.
Doesn't that sound like Basic Evildoer Self-Justification 101?
Yet he's aware enough to know that the handicapped hang tag or license plate is for the person, not the person's car:
"...Whoever that placard is for, it’s for them. They have to be there,” Coe said. “You can’t just hand the thing out and let anybody use it.”
Yeah. yeah, I was 'triggered" by this report.
Terry
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http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sdut-disabled-man-caught-using-placard-ucsd-2012jul26-htmlstory.html
Doesn't that sound like Basic Evildoer Self-Justification 101?
Yet he's aware enough to know that the handicapped hang tag or license plate is for the person, not the person's car:
Yeah. yeah, I was 'triggered" by this report.
Terry
From the article, the defense is not that he didn't know parking in a fee-paying parking lot was free because of the handicapped placard.
He purposely didn't park in a "handicapped" parking space, because he wasn't handicapped. He thought he was taking a risk of getting a fine/towed in a parking lot he doesn't have a permit for because parking is apparently really bad.
So, yes, he knew it was wrong, but was willing to take that risk. He didn't know that his wife's handicapped plate meant that he would not get a ticket in that lot. He wasn't in a "handicapped" space, just in a lot that students wanted to use and had one less space in it for students who paid to park there. (Now, he could be lying and WAS taking advantage of his wife's placard, but his story is at least plausible.)
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It'd be ironic if you could get a placard for being ethically disabled and then after this he would be allowed to use a handicapped space.
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It'd be ironic if you could get a placard for being ethically disabled and then after this he would be allowed to use a handicapped space.
Meh. From his explanation, it's akin to speeding. You are free to speed, but you risk getting a ticket. That's what he considered this to be- risking a parking ticket.
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But he says he only did it once -- ten years is about the longest single work shift I ever heard of.
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It'd be ironic if you could get a placard for being ethically disabled and then after this he would be allowed to use a handicapped space.
They don't give them out for that? Judging from the way some of them drive, I'd assumed tags were available for all types of mental disability.
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They don't give them out for that? Judging from the way some of them drive, I'd assumed tags were available for all types of mental disability.
Aw right. Yer on my PHFBLT list. :)
(One of my neighbors in this senior citizen's apartment had a bumper sticker which said. "I'm Old, I'm SUPPOSED to Leave My Blinker On.")
Actually the amusing thing to me is that the ethics involved seem to have turned into a risk management matter. In other words, "It Can't Be Wrong If I'm Not Caught."
It's not clear in the article or in the photograph whether the handicapped advisement was in the form of the hang tag (placard) or on the license plate*. (You need a UC password to watch the video.) However, it was a big part of the complainant's discussion, so I would legitimately assume that in fact the scoundrel was using it one way or another and that his rhetoric about it was pure face-saving BS and sounded to me like "Basic Evildoer Self-Justification 101."
The handicapped sticker "triggering" by me was just because handicapped violations are a personal bête noire.
So.
Terry
*Correction: It said his van had a disabled license plate.
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Equally as annoying as the scofflaws who pull such shenanigans (if not more annoying) are so-called "authorities" who are too effing lazy to properly follow up on complaints about abuse of the license tags and/or hang tags. In this case the complainant says he started making complaints ten years ago, yet Coe apparently did this every day and nothing was done about it.
(Yes, I know he said he only did it once. Do you believe him? I don't.)
Let's see -- roughly 200 working days per year x 10 years x $8/day ... that's $16,000 he owes the university.
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I was about to do that, figuring $5/day.
Oh, and the lying is OK, as long as he isn't caught doing it. I wonder if he's ever taken Journalism classes.
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But he says he only did it once -- ten years is about the longest single work shift I ever heard of.
I dont' see him saying he only did it once. I see him saying he parked there that day because he was running late.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I will assume he runs late a few times a month and parks in that lot, thinking he's taking a risk, but will pay a ticket if he gets caught.
It probably has been 10 years he's been doing it. If he parked there a few times and never got a ticket, he may believe the parking people rarely check there.
To the other guy, who goes in to work (also, what kind of crappy employer makes its employees PAY for parking?!?) he sees it "EVERY DAY", or, more likely a few times a month and extrapolates that he just missed it those other days. Could easily be a lot of people with mistaken impressions.
Yes, the parker wrong, but he was as wrong as someone speeding.
Of course, no one condemning him ever speeds, right?
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(also, what kind of crappy employer makes its employees PAY for parking?!?)
Oooh! Oooh! Pick me, pick me!
It's only $2.00 a day though. But considering my employer (_ _ & _) actually owns the property and leases it to a parking concession it does rankle just a bit.
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I was about to do that, figuring $5/day.
Oh, and the lying is OK, as long as he isn't caught doing it. I wonder if he's ever taken Journalism classes.
I thought the article said the usual parking rate was $8/day. I might have misremembered.
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Oooh! Oooh! Pick me, pick me!
It's only $2.00 a day though. But considering my employer (_ _ & _) actually owns the property and leases it to a parking concession it does rankle just a bit.
As it ought to. That's just horrible to do to your employees.
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To the other guy, who goes in to work (also, what kind of crappy employer makes its employees PAY for parking?!?) he sees it "EVERY DAY", or, more likely a few times a month and extrapolates that he just missed it those other days. Could easily be a lot of people with mistaken impressions.
The one I work for. :'(
I'm at a construction site, so I don't pay. The people in the home office have to pay to park in a municipal garage, and the company doesn't reimburse the parking.
Yes, the parker wrong, but he was as wrong as someone speeding.
Of course, no one condemning him ever speeds, right?
Right. I decided years ago that the easiest way to avoid speeding tickets was to exercise the loophole of never exceeding the speed limit.
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Right. I decided years ago that the easiest way to avoid speeding tickets was to exercise the loophole of never exceeding the speed limit.
I thought everyone knew you had to follow the posted minimum speed limit.
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Ethical behavior . . .
When I lived in Chicago, a fairly reliable way to avoid parking tickets for parking illegally was to place a Chicago Police Department ticket book on your dashboard, as cops and meter maids would rarely ticket a fellow officer's car . . . especially if it was a more expensive model, implying the owner was up in the ranks.
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Sorry, makattak, all you surmise is true, but it doesn't excuse the act --even once. It still boils down to...
It Can't Be Wrong If I'm Not Caught
And all the posturin' and postulatin' is just...
"Basic Evildoer Self-Justification 101"
That's the way I see it, and whether he only did it on Tuesdays or whether I, personally, speed or not don't mean squat nohow.
Terry, 230RN
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Florida has an enlightened attitude about handicap parking. They do have marked handicapped spaces. But they also have a state statute that allows handicapped folks who have the permit to park for free at any and all government controlled parking spaces. ie: meters on the streets and surface lots as well as pay to park high rise garages etc.
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As the holder of a Cripple Cardtm[tm] (comes free with every diagnosis of terminal cancer), I only use if I'm feeling particularity crappy that day, other wise I know there are people in worse shape than me that need those spots.
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Sorry, makattak, all you surmise is true, but it doesn't excuse the act --even once. It still boils down to...
It Can't Be Wrong If I'm Not Caught
And all the posturin' and postulatin' is just...
"Basic Evildoer Self-Justification 101"
That's the way I see it, and whether he only did it on Tuesdays or whether I, personally, speed or not don't mean squat nohow.
Terry, 230RN
I'm not saying he isn't wrong. I'm saying he isn't as wrong as if he were purposely using his wife's handicapped plates for his own benefit.
It seems, like minor speeding, more a malum prohibitum rather than a malum in se.
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:rofl: If you keep backtrackin' and quit subject-changin', sooner or later you'll come down to what I said about this guy's attitude.
It Can't Be Wrong If I'm Not Caught
Now if it had somehow actually come down to a Courthouse type matter and I were the guy with the gavel, I'd probably fine him a couple of month's fees, tell him not to do it again, and bang the aforementioned gavel.
Next.
>:D =D
Terry, 230RN
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I'm absolutely anal about handicapped parking abuses.
Every chance I've had to screw someone for abusing handicapped parking/access I've jumped on it.
I could have gotten a temporary handicapped hang tag after my hip surgery but declined out of principal.
I did get to deal with a dooshbag that tried to get after my dad (100% service connected disabled vet) for parking his motorcycle/sidecar rig in a handicapped spot. Dad even had a hang tag. He could ride the hack rig just fine but walking more than 40-50 yards at a go was a major challenge.
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When I'm done putting my groceries in the car, I have a tendency to park the store electric cart real close to the driver side door of a vehicle without a handicapped sticker or license plate. I mean nanometer close.
Too bad swift justice like that is sometimes thwarted by the store personnel coming out and riding the cart back to the store charging stations before the perp gets back. (They regard that as the only fun part of cart shagging.)
If I don't have too many perishables, I like to hang out and watch the results.
So every once in a while, the "It Can't Be Wrong If I'm Not Caught" dude or dudette comes out and has to struggle to figure out how the cart works so they can get in their car. I point out that the brakes lock up automatically.
Most of the time they don't realize you have to bounce on the seat to reset the safety shutoff and that's really fun to watch. I bust a gut if they finally decide to go around and get in the passenger side and scrooch over to the driver's side to get going. Sometimes a brute can pick the cart up a little and move it. Sometimes brutettes can do it too.
I'm a baaaaad little boy sometimes. But after all, if I'm not caught, it can't be wrong.
Right? >:D
Terrible Terry
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When I'm done putting my groceries in the car, I have a tendency to park the store electric cart real close to the driver side door of a vehicle without a handicapped sticker or license plate. I mean millimeter close.
Too bad swift justice like that is sometimes thwarted by the store personnel coming out and riding the cart back to the store charging stations.
If I don't have too many perishables, I like to hang out and watch the results.
So every once in a while, the "It Can't Be Wrong If I'm Not Caught" dude or dudette comes out and has to struggle to figure out how the cart works so they can get in their car.
Most of the time they don't realize you have to bounce on the seat to reset the safety shutoff and that's really fun to watch. I bust a gut if they finally decide to go around and get in the passenger side and scrooch over to the driver's side to get going.
I'm a baaaaad little boy sometimes. And if I'm not caught, it can't be wrong.
Right? >:D
Terrible Terry
I don't think that is as bad as pulling a couple of valve stems out. After all, who carries 2 spares??? >:D
bob
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I used to get offended by non handicapped folks in the spot, then I saw my 1000th dependapotamus park the minivan, flow all 500lbs into the closest
Jazzy powerchair, and wire into Wal-Mart to stock up on Chips, Totino's Pizza Rolls, and Diet Coke.
Now I'm kinda meh. We've (as society) made it so easy to get those placards I can't bring myself to care where the line is on any given day. I suspect many folks also just don't care, hence the disregard of the spots.
Their attitude is less "it's not wrong if I don't get caught." and more "it's not wrong".
I don't personally park in those spots, even when I'm in a car with the hang tag, but it no longer pegs my Outrage-o-meter.
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dogmush remarked,
Their attitude is less "it's not wrong if I don't get caught" and more "it's not wrong."
Well, it's $100 worth of wrong around here.
Terry, 230RN
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I'm not saying he isn't wrong. I'm saying he isn't as wrong as if he were purposely using his wife's handicapped plates for his own benefit.
If he wasn't using it for his own benefit, whose benefit was he using it for? He was certainly using it, and he certainly benefited from using it.
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"Their attitude is less 'it's not wrong if I don't get caught' and more 'it's not wrong.'"
Well, it's $100 worth of wrong around here.
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Texas just raised it to $500 minimum, plus towing and impound fees, plus mandatory community service for repeat offenders.
Now if they'd enforce it, it might stop being an issue.
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Texas just raised it to $500 minimum, plus towing and impound fees, plus mandatory community service for repeat offenders.
Now if they'd enforce it, it might stop being an issue.
I just went out on an errand and discovered I was wrong. They must have raised it from $100...
It might be enforced now as a revenue source. I can see it now, like speed traps.... handicapped traps :rofl:
Terry, 230RN
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I just went out on an errand and discovered I was wrong. They must have raised it from $100...
It was $250-500, now it's $500-750. Sounds like you need to push your city to use the state fine levels. And the community service, since having to give up 8-40 hours of their time is a deterrent even to someone who can afford a $750 ticket.
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Well, even as a handicapped person who is grateful for the extra convenience, I think $250 is pushing the boundaries of "punishment to fit the crime."
More than that would seem to be just plain vengeful and vindictive, although I've been royally pissed at seeing some of the blatant violations. :old: (https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunrightsmedia.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fcussing2.gif&hash=13bb2722605c8611eced2fae9d24cbf0496a1d7d) (https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunrightsmedia.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fangryfire.gif&hash=22e08ca4e001f7c0286e29cf5bfe93225a877559)
About 20 hours of community service in addition ought to do it.
I'm not 100% sure towing away is a good idea. "To fit the crime" comes to mind again.
Temperate Terry, 230RN
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Well, even as a handicapped person who is grateful for the extra convenience, I think $250 is pushing the boundaries of "punishment to fit the crime."
This isn't a "gee, I didn't look down for a while and now I'm going 80 in a 70" situation; required markings of handicap spaces are way too obvious for "I didn't see it," especially when navigating a parking lot at <10mph. Whether it's intentional or insanely negligent, I'm OK with the penalties for something that easy to avoid being higher.
About 20 hours of community service in addition ought to do it.
Even better would be if they had to wear hi-viz vests with their crime in 3" letters front and back.
I'm not 100% sure towing away is a good idea. "To fit the crime" comes to mind again.
Removing the vehicle is to free up the space for legitimate use. And again, it's easy to not park there in the first place.
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Removing the vehicle is to free up the space for legitimate use. And again, it's easy to not park there in the first place.
^^^ This.
Exceeding the posted limit can be unintentional. It's difficult to argue that you parked in that extra-large space, with the cross-hatched side aisle and the big blue sign that says "HANDICAPPED PARKING" by mistake. I think $250 is a reasonable fine for a first offense. Second time should be $500, and after that $1,000 per offense isn't unreasonable.
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It's difficult to argue that you parked in that extra-large space, with the cross-hatched side aisle and the big blue sign that says "HANDICAPPED PARKING" by mistake.
Never underestimate the incompetence of someone a state has decided to give a license to anyway. Not that I think such should ever be an acceptable excuse; in fact, I firmly believe that when one demonstrates a lack of awareness and concern while controlling a deadly weapon, it should be handled just as severely as if they handled a loaded firearm in a public place as carelessly.
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^^^ This.
Exceeding the posted limit can be unintentional. It's difficult to argue that you parked in that extra-large space, with the cross-hatched side aisle and the big blue sign that says "HANDICAPPED PARKING" by mistake. I think $250 is a reasonable fine for a first offense. Second time should be $500, and after that $1,000 per offense isn't unreasonable.
After enough violations make them actually eligible to use the space. >:D
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After enough violations make them actually eligible to use the space. >:D
After 2-3, revoke their license so they can't use it anyway. Exponentially increasing community service hours would keep them busy elsewhere, too.