Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: just Warren on June 03, 2018, 04:48:47 PM
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Dave Workman writes a review of Ruger's new 9mm 1911. And gives it good marks.
This isn't the point of this post though.
This is how the headline came to me in my e-mail: "A 9mm 1911 worth shooting?" Note the question mark.
The headline for the article at the site:
Exclusive: Ruger’s Officer-Style SR1911 Is A 9mm Worth Shooting
Link here. (https://gunsmagazine.com/exclusive-rugers-officer-style-sr1911-is-a-9mm-worth-shooting/)
I'm less interested in this particular gun or the review or reviewer what I want to know is why he disdain for 9mm 1911s?
It's implied in the email topic line that I should be surprised by a good version of a 9mm 1911. I've also seen this attitude online a bunch.
People accept the .38 Super as a quality round from a 1911, so why not the slightly less powerful 9mm?
Is it because people don't generally respect the cartridge? Or is it that the 1911 was designed for the .45 ACP and it should not be used to launch any other rounds, dammit!
Or is there some reason I'm not seeing?
I personally like the concept. But then I like heavy-for-caliber guns generally and I have no problem with the 9mm. It's a good round that's stopped a lot of fights in it's day.
So what's your take on 9mm 1911s?
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the 1911 was designed for the .45 ACP and it should not be used to launch any other rounds, dammit!
My impression is that it's mostly this. I have a Rock Island in 9mm that I love though.
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I’m going to start this by making a statement. Most modern and/or non .45ACP 1911’s aren’t technically a 1911. They generally share the overall function and style. Single action trigger, grip angle, etc.
I own probably over 100 various 1911 style firearms. Everything from real original 1911’s, Colt Commander, home built, Gold Cups, double stack Para Ordinance, .22lr conversions, and even a Coonan or three. In probably at least 20 different calibers. Just off the top of my head. .22, 9mm, .380, .45, .451Detonics, 9x23, .38 Super, .50GI, .357mag ...
I don’t know why anyone would have an issue with a 9mm 1911. The important thing to me in a 1911 or 1911 style firearm is the grip angle, single action trigger and single stack magazine. Of course I also own double stack type to, but again not a real 1911 and my hand better fits on single stack. The fit and function is a proven design and if you like it what difference does the caliber really make.
I’ve carried many real and type style 1911’s; my more or less daily carry is currently a SIG P938.
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Every 9mm 1911 I've ever wrapped my paw around was an absolute joy to shoot. If I were getting something as a dedicated R&F (range & fun) gun I would seriously consider one in long slide.
Brad
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The only variant I have shot in 9mm is the Springfield EMP. Great pistol. This would looks like a compact size in that same category. Ruger shows 3 or 4 9mm 1911 pistols on their site.
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I reckon none can complain if the 9mm is a Commander-type.
I’m going to start this by making a statement. Most modern and/or non .45ACP 1911’s aren’t technically a 1911. They generally share the overall function and style. Single action trigger, grip angle, etc.
I think, if enough 1911-specific parts from Brownells will fit the gun, with no more fitting needed than for an issue Colt, there's no reason it shouldn't be considered a 1911. "1911" in this case referring to a gun-nerd category, not to a military designation.
I say "enough parts," because my GSG .22 pistol can use a number of 1911 parts, but doesn't even have a link, or a tilting barrel.
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Or is there some reason I'm not seeing?
Dave Workman. 'Nuff said.
I'm a 1911 guy. I have a Colt Combat Commander in 9mm that I picked up used (and abused) many years ago. It's probably my favorite of all the 1911s I've had opportunities to shoot over the past 50 years. I have no issues with 1911s in 9mm.
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For me, the thing about the .45 1911 is the overall feel while firing. It's the combination of the (relatively) slow slide movement coupled with the all-steel construction that makes the experience different from any other pistol/caliber combo that I've encountered. My experience with 9mm 1911s has been neutral; they're fine if that's what you like but they lack the... um, feng shui of the .45. The faster moving slide makes them just as snappy as any other metal-framed pistol in that caliber, lacking the feel that makes the .45 stand out for me.
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Every time someone drops the hammer on a 1911 chambered in 9mm $diety kills a unicorn, and maybe a kitten.
:old:
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Every time someone drops the hammer on a 1911 chambered in 9mm $diety kills a unicorn, and maybe a kitten.
:old:
Hell, that completely vindicates my STI 2011 9mm >:D
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(https://preview.ibb.co/cEOsnd/gunjesus.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cN6pYJ)
Do we need to have a reading of the Gospel Of Browning?
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I don't see the point unless it is an SV double stack. I have the hots for the little .380s Colt made though. And proving I am a secret Mexican, I would really like a nickeled .38super.
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Every time someone drops the hammer on a 1911 chambered in 9mm $diety kills a unicorn, and maybe a kitten.
:old:
Not wanting to kill a cuddly little kitten I can understand. But unicorns? Those things are dangerous predators that often work in cahoots with Vampires.
Never had a chance to fire or even handle a 9mm 1911. Might have to look into that sometime.
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I own a Springfield 1911 in 9mm. Pre EMP. Mine is the one they discontinued prior to launching the EMP.
Mine is a damn fine pistol. Will never part with it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I have two 9mms that are better than the stock 1911...
A Hi Power and a Radom.
Why would I go backwards?
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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I have no particular preference for one over the other. I imagine a 9 in a 1911 frame would be fun to shoot, which I found was so with my weighty M9, fun.
I guess the question mark was to alert readers to the fact there is a debate about a 9 in a 1911 frame, and here's some of it. This is not uncommon: Ford v Chevvy? Blondes v brunettes? Mary Ann v Ginger?
What I like about the 9 v .45 arguments are the catchphrases which develop. My favorite is "A nine mm might fail to expand, but a .45 will never shrink."
I use that one every once in a while even though I like nines as well and nowadays both my EDCs are .355 to .357 in bullet diameters, not .452.
Another one ends with "Because they don't make a .46."
(I very rarely carry my own RIA .45 1911 any more because I found I like the DA's inherent safety and speed over the .45's single action.)
But a 9 in a .45 frame? No problem with me.
Terry, 230RN
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And in other news:
The next generation of Dodge Hellcat will be named the Dodge Lucifer powered by the under rated and often overlooked powerhouse 2.4L 4 cylinder. ;)
In all honesty I have only shot the 1911 style platform in .45, 10mm and 357 Coonan. I own the 45 and 10 and love the platform (been shooting it for 50+ years) so I imagine shooting 9mm out of the 1911 platform would be a very nice pairing. But I do not own any 9mm so I wouldn't go out and get one just because of that.
bob
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Already having a few 15+ rd 9mm pistols, I have zero interest in a 1911 in that chambering.
.38 Super has always been on my list, because its different and interesting.
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Already having a few 15+ rd 9mm pistols, I have zero interest in a 1911 in that chambering.
.38 Super has always been on my list, because its different and interesting.
1983-ish, I had a "1911" Aluminum framed Colt Commander(?) in that caliber. Very impressive. It made about the same dents in a 1/4" steel plate out in the pasture as a .357. I didn't like the semi-rim on it, but it worked. After cartridges got scarce I turned down .38 -.357 cases with a custom tool bit to make .38 Super brass. It was really nice to carry around in the pastures and out in the boonies, but I sold it.
I understand the cartridge is coming back in favor.
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.38 Super has always been on my list, because its different and interesting.
That is the one caliber I don't have that I want. Of course it will have to be nickel plated with MOP grips... because .38 Super!
bob
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Another one ends with "Because they don't make a .46."
I stopped using that one when Guncrafters Industries came out with the .50 caliber 1911.
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As I recall, and I don't know if it's still an issue or has been rectified with current designs, one argument for 9mm is in the very compact 1911s. I know that my micro-compact .45 is very picky about ammo, and for years I was hesitant to carry it for SHTF until I absolutely felt comfortable that the Federal Hydra Shoks (which, yes, I know are not the best defensive rounds) I use in it would consistently feed. When I shoot my reloads (230gr lrn), they 99% feed thorough my TRP and Combat Commander, but only 75% of the time in the micro.
I seem to recall reading, and I think we've discussed it here, that once they go below commander size, the feeding starts to be an issue with .45 and requires careful engineering.
As far as full-size, while I only have .45s, I don't think 9mm is sacrilege. Certainly the Hi-Power, while not a 1911, is similar enough, and is a gun it's hard to find fault with. That said, I agree with Devonai on the "feng shui" (never thought I'd use that term for a gun :laugh: ) of the 1911 loaded with .45ACP.
Of course I have to say that as my TRP is sitting on the hotel desk next to me in its leather Milt Sparks IWB and watching what I type. :laugh:
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Already having a few 15+ rd 9mm pistols, I have zero interest in a 1911 in that chambering.
.38 Super has always been on my list, because its different and interesting.
Several years ago I met an old timer at the range that had a Colt 1911 chambered in .38 Special. I was able to handle it (but not fire it) so did see the chamber markings on the slide and saw the magazine that was modified to take the rimmed cartridges.
He stated that he had been on the Air Force pistol team many years ago and they had a special run of pistols made for the team.
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Several years ago I met an old timer at the range that had a Colt 1911 chambered in .38 Special. I was able to handle it (but not fire it) so did see the chamber markings on the slide and saw the magazine that was modified to take the rimmed cartridges.
He stated that he had been on the Air Force pistol team many years ago and they had a special run of pistols made for the team.
Yeah, if you ever see one for sale cheap just throw your wallet at them and run.
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Several years ago I met an old timer at the range that had a Colt 1911 chambered in .38 Special. I was able to handle it (but not fire it) so did see the chamber markings on the slide and saw the magazine that was modified to take the rimmed cartridges.
He stated that he had been on the Air Force pistol team many years ago and they had a special run of pistols made for the team.
They were called wadcutter guns, and they're very desirable. One of the moderators on the M1911.org forum has one. She has mentioned it, but I can't recall if she has ever posted pictures of it.
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Several years ago I met an old timer at the range that had a Colt 1911 chambered in .38 Special. I was able to handle it (but not fire it) so did see the chamber markings on the slide and saw the magazine that was modified to take the rimmed cartridges.
He stated that he had been on the Air Force pistol team many years ago and they had a special run of pistols made for the team.
I sold one of those back in the 1990s when I was working at the gunshop.
I wanted it BADLY, but I was only the counter monkey.
It was, I believe, Colt's attempt to answer S&W's Model 52. Never a huge seller, but had a following.
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My favorite 1911 is a springfield built by Rob leatham when he ran the springfield armory custom shop 30some years ago. It is a .45 and slicker than snot and accurate. I bought my first 9mm 1911 last year, a commander size alloy frame. I like it a lot, enough to actually want another 5" steel 9mm, not as a carry gun but just a range fun gun. If I could justify the cost I would build a shortened slide with a barrel comp for 5" overall.
Just for fun ya know...