Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: brimic on June 10, 2018, 12:07:12 PM
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https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/10k-to-change-a-barrel-/5-2117189/
This is peak douchebaggery from a ‘gun smith.’
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Just "Wow!"
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Any executive summary on this without reading through that whole thread?
Seems like it could either be a guy with a rare / specialized weapon, or more likely, given that somewhat reasonable cost for the ammo, a common weapon and an attempted ripoff by the gunsmith. I don't even know what "toning" is, but when it costs more than some Purdeys, I question it.
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Any executive summary on this without reading through that whole thread?
Seems like it could either be a guy with a rare / specialized weapon, or more likely, given that somewhat reasonable cost for the ammo, a common weapon and an attempted ripoff by the gunsmith. I don't even know what "toning" is, but when it costs more than some Purdeys, I question it.
I think it’s a Browning 1919. New barrels are only a few hundred dollars and are relatively easy to change.
Here’s a video of the *expletive deleted*bag in action.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fAYa9s4dUaM
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Yeah, the video doesn't do the gunsmith any favors. :laugh:
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https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/10k-to-change-a-barrel-/5-2117189/
This is peak douchebaggery from a ‘gun smith.’
Saw the pic, floating around the "Internet gunsphere", haven't read the thread.
I wonder if that's not a "pompous a*****e surcharge".
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Read the whole thread (whew!). Looks like a case of stacked errors adding up from both parties. 1) The smith is way out of his league. 2) Who sends their MG to a smith that they only know from some IMs on a website without some further research? 3) If both parties had a better grasp of English, this may never have happened. 4) Written estimates = good thing. 5) Notifying your customer when costs are going to skyrocket = good thing.
And on and on.
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Saw the pic, floating around the "Internet gunsphere", haven't read the thread.
I wonder if that's not a "pompous a*****e surcharge".
That is my thought. Or maybe dumbass1 + dumbass2 = $10,000.
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Yeah, the video doesn't do the gunsmith any favors. :laugh:
Yeah, I don't think I'd let that guy work on a hi point... Much less anything of actual value...
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I've read that this gunsmith is known for pulling this type of stuff.
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Using my accidental double post to make a second post. =D
To quote someone from the arfcom link, I think this guy probably has it figured out:
I don't know either one of these guys nor do I have a stake in this.
Sounds like (aka my educated guess):
1. Owner bought aircraft MG which has very high cyclic rate and thin barrel profile because its made to be fired in the slip stream of an aircraft for cooling.
2.Owner wants gun not to over heat when shooting and looks for gunsmith that can make a custom barrel in a heavier profile for gun.
3.Gunsmith who has worked on some 1919A4 guns in the past takes job with no clue on what he is getting into with a MG40.
4.Gunsmith starts *expletive deleted*ing with gun thinking he can take a 1919A4 barrel and fit it to gun.
5.Gunsmith, not owning head space gauges (read the post, moron is doing barrel work without head space gauges), has a case head separation possibly blowing the feed cover off and bending it like a banana.
6.Gunsmith now in a panic state starts trying to find new top cover to replace the one he destroyed.
7.Gunsmith keeps tinkering with gun and by shear luck finally figures out that he has added a lot of mass to the system and needs to further restrict the booster diameter.
8.Gunsmith finally gets gun to run enough for him to think he can get rid of it back to the owner.
9.Owner brings in new barrel jacket that is from a different country's MG40 gun contract and its a different length. (this step may have been before #3 and the owner brought him a 1919A4 barrel jacket so it will fit a larger diameter barrel since the MG40 jacket is small in diameter. if this is the case, the value of the gun may have been ruined by the mods.)
10.Gunsmith is now in round 2 trying to get gun to work and modify the new barrel jacket to the same length as old one.
11.Gunsmith finally after 6 months is done and has a gun that runs, has a too high of recoil impulse and will blow out the rear plate soon but is ready to get paid.
12.Gunsmith is looking at all the time he spent trying to be a wannbe John Moses Browning and reengineer a perfectly good gun, all the ammo he used to test his various attempts and the cost of a new top cover and comes up with a bill to cover it all.
13.Owner gets bill and gets pissed but must know some of the issues encountered since he is already agreed to try to buy off the gunsmith with double the original estimate.
14.Mr. wannbe JMB does not want to lose all that time and money and figures he has the gun so he has leverage but kindly drops $2K off his beginners guide on machine guns for gunsmiths.
15.Owner takes to the NFA facebook page in which the only thing that ever gets posted are dumbasses using their suppressors as fake dicks for pictures.
16.The internet being what it is, spreads this to other gun forums and people who have no clue and are outraged at the price even though they have never owned a gun worth $5K much less a transferable beltfed.
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^That actually makes sense of the matter, though doesn't make the gun smith look any better ^
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I know a legitimate gunsmith who only works on military full-auto firearms.* I may run this by him for laughs.
* One corner of his shop is occupied by a trailer, on which is mounted a fully function quad-50 anti-aircraft gun that he takes all over the country to machine gun shoots.
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Here’s a video of the *expletive deleted*bag in action.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fAYa9s4dUaM
"Ooh, I cooked off one?"
No, you have poor trigger discipline.
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^That actually makes sense of the matter, though doesn't make the gun smith look any better ^
Sort of; anyone who knows their way around a machine shop should be able to turn out a fully functioning barrel for pretty near anything in a lot less than 50 hours. I'm not sure Hershel House spends that long coal forging and hand boring a barrel.
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Sort of; anyone who knows their way around a machine shop should be able to turn out a fully functioning barrel for pretty near anything in a lot less than 50 hours. I'm not sure Hershel House spends that long coal forging and hand boring a barrel.
I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone, but it seems like someone well-trained with modern equipment would be able to do it a lot faster. I have no expertise in the area, but it seems like if you set stuff up and punch the buttons on the computer it would be more like a few hours, no?
Or else if you don't have the expertise and the proper equipment, you sub it to someone who does, and inform the customer. Whatever fault the customer may have, it certainly sounds like this gunsmith got into something way over his head and ended up using the customer's gun as a teaching aid for himself, while charging the customer for the education.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone, but it seems like someone well-trained with modern equipment would be able to do it a lot faster. I have no expertise in the area, but it seems like if you set stuff up and punch the buttons on the computer it would be more like a few hours, no?
Or else if you don't have the expertise and the proper equipment, you sub it to someone who does, and inform the customer. Whatever fault the customer may have, it certainly sounds like this gunsmith got into something way over his head and ended up using the customer's gun as a teaching aid for himself, while charging the customer for the education.
You said it much more nicely than I would have.
At the rate of $100 an hour, I'd expect expertise done in a timely manner and 50 hours on one barrel does not qualify.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone, but it seems like someone well-trained with modern equipment would be able to do it a lot faster. I have no expertise in the area, but it seems like if you set stuff up and punch the buttons on the computer it would be more like a few hours, no?
Computer? We're talking a M1919 here. Your average Khyber Pass "gunsmith" should be able to turn out a complete one from old truck parts with a charcoal forge and hand tools in not much more than 50 hours. Making those barrels is quite literally century old technology.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone, but it seems like someone well-trained with modern equipment would be able to do it a lot faster. I have no expertise in the area, but it seems like if you set stuff up and punch the buttons on the computer it would be more like a few hours, no?
Or else if you don't have the expertise and the proper equipment, you sub it to someone who does, and inform the customer. Whatever fault the customer may have, it certainly sounds like this gunsmith got into something way over his head and ended up using the customer's gun as a teaching aid for himself, while charging the customer for the education.
I would expect the setup time to take more than the actual machining, considering that he almost certainly started with a barrel blank, and machined it down to a finished contour.
I think places like Krieger or Bartlein charge a few hundred, at most, to change a barrel contour.
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At 50 hours he better have started with bar stock and then rolled a heat shroud from flat steel.
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Over on the Arfcom thread someone pointed out that the "gunsmith's" home address is a trailer park and the business address is a storefront. No real space for a machine shop.... Of course I suppose he could have one of those harbor fright bench lathes, which might in turn explain the 50 hours of labor....