Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on December 20, 2018, 05:45:57 PM
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Big mistake, IMO.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2018/12/20/what-the-hell-donald-trump-announces-that-james-mattis-will-be-retiring-in-february/
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Well *expletive deleted*ck
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Hate to see this. Those will be big shoes to fill.
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:O
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He "resigned." Is it real or euphemism? ???
I liked Mad Dog. Methinks it be Trump who barked up the wrong tree ...... =(
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I suspect that, as a Marine general, Mattis probably has a low tolerance for rampant lunacy. Two years of serving under a loose cannon like Trump was probably all he could take.
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I suspect that, as a Marine general, Mattis probably has a low tolerance for rampant lunacy. Two years of serving under a loose cannon like Trump was probably all he could take.
I actually thought he showed great tolerance to this point, all things considered. However I think Trump has been listening to him less and less, and from the looks of the resignation letter, Syria was the straw that broke the Monk's back.
I only hope Trump has the good sense not to, in six months or so, do the same thing to Mattis that he did with Tillerson - i.e., "He's a moron and I know more about this stuff than any General!" Mattis, I think, was almost universally respected by everyone except the most far left SJWs. Going down the name-calling route with him will not get Trump the laughs he got with Omarosa and Scaramucci.
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I suspect that, as a Marine general, Mattis probably has a low tolerance for rampant lunacy. Two years of serving under a loose cannon like Trump was probably all he could take.
*Sigh* Other chiefs of staff have left after a few years as well .... although if Trump goes all Tillerson on him later that will be a horrible mistake ......
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*Sigh* Other chiefs of staff have left after a few years as well .... although if Trump goes all Tillerson on him later that will be a horrible mistake ......
Even Trump can't be that dense.
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Even Trump can't be that dense.
Every time I think that he takes it as a challenge....
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Mattis is the one person in DC I trusted to know his job, to do that job, and to not be motivated primarily out of self interest. Enjoy your retirement, General. You've served with honor.
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*Sigh* Other chiefs of staff have left after a few years as well .... although if Trump goes all Tillerson on him later that will be a horrible mistake ......
Mattis was Sec Def.
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Every time I think that he takes it as a challenge....
That will be the end of his 2020 aspirations, if nothing else.
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Mad Dog 2020 time!
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Mad Dog 2020 time!
All I want for Christmas :cool:
Also, to quote Terminal Lance:
"As a general thing, I suppose it’s a good thing for the military as a whole to have a Secretary of Defense that is universally loved and adored across all ranks and rates. As far as the legends and memes go, those that have met the Honorable Secretary can attest that underneath all of the hype is a genuinely good, down to earth man that loves his Marines.
Also worth noting is that the 66 year old man likely doesn’t spend a lot of time shitposting on Facebook anyway.
He’s better off, really."
Godspeed, Sir. enjoy your retirement.
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Mattis was Sec Def.
I think he was referring to Trump trash talking about Tillerson after he left.
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Mattis did seem to be on board with Team America World Police.
It’s not outside the realm of possibility that he was on board with the GH Bush new world order.
No disrespect intended to him but if he is a neocon globalist at heart then it’s best he retire.
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The letter:
https://partner-mco-archive.s3.amazonaws.com/client_files/1545345409.pdf
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Mattis was Sec Def.
You're right but they've come and gone in other administration's as well.
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Mattis did seem to be on board with Team America World Police.
It’s not outside the realm of possibility that he was on board with the GH Bush new world order.
No disrespect intended to him but if he is a neocon globalist at heart then it’s best he retire.
Really? Did you read his letter?
Like you, I have said from the beginning that the armed forces of the United States should not be the policeman of the world. Instead, we must use all tools of American power to provide for the common defense, including providing effective leadership to our alliances.
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Too many folks are jumping overboard from the SS Trump. I'm really beginning to believe he will be a one term President. Assuming, of course, he survives the inevitable impeachment attempts next year.
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It's like Trump has gone full 'tard this week. Syria, caving in on the CR/Border Wall, firing Mattis. He's taken his stupid pills for sure...
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The letter:
https://partner-mco-archive.s3.amazonaws.com/client_files/1545345409.pdf
Most of the resignation letters so far have been short and to the point. Honor to serve, we accomplished a lot, MAGA etc.
Mattis actually has some things to say in his and he says them well.
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Really? Did you read his letter?
Our killing middle easterners across the whole region and breaking marginally functioning countries is part of our mutual defense? American defense or western allies defense? Defense from who?
The only country you can make a case for invading or breaking is Afghanistan.
How many countries are we killing people and breaking things in now, over the last decade?
Providing leadership to our allies? Why are we leading countries on the other side of the globe?
Typical politician speak, using themes and words that mean one thing to us but he really means the opposite.
“I’m against us being the global police we must lead our allies as we police the world.”
Great general from all accounts, not on board with his vision.
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I think Mattis wants to see us out of Syria as well. With only an armchair analyst guess, there must be something behind the scenes that had Mattis worried from the strategic perspective regarding Trump simply announcing, "We're done, ISIS is finished". Much like when Obama said the "JV Team" was finished. From the news at least, it sounds like Mattis was very worried, to the point of pretty much just showing up at the White House for one last plea.
There are many ways to pull back. We saw that Obama did it wrong. My guess is that Mattis didn't want Trump repeating that error.
On the tangent, it has been kinda funny to watch both the Obama cheerleaders and the Trump cheerleaders pretty much defending or criticizing the opposite of what they were doing when "the other guy" did it. Suddenly Dem leadership are all acting like Mattis is their bestest buddy, and ISIS is a great danger and we need our troops in the ME. I've also seen way too many conservatives saying some pretty stupid things about Mattis in the "good riddance" sense (not so much in Congress, but more the "conservative pundits").
The last thing I want to see with Trump (or any President) is to be surrounded by yes men. I was pretty impressed with Trump's original cabinet choices and what looked like him surrounding himself with experts that he would listen to. Sadly, I'm starting to see that go in the opposite direction. He still does have around a year to turn that back around though.
I don't mind Trump doing the "I know more than anyone else" stuff with economic issues. In many ways, he has shown himself to be right. I'm scared about him doing that with national security issues. I'm very curious about who gave him information and advice, and what that was, that would cause him to blow off Mattis.
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I think Mattis wants to see us out of Syria as well. With only an armchair analyst guess, there must be something behind the scenes that had Mattis worried from the strategic perspective regarding Trump simply announcing, "We're done, ISIS is finished". Much like when Obama said the "JV Team" was finished. From the news at least, it sounds like Mattis was very worried, to the point of pretty much just showing up at the White House for one last plea.
There are many ways to pull back. We saw that Obama did it wrong. My guess is that Mattis didn't want Trump repeating that error.
On the tangent, it has been kinda funny to watch both the Obama cheerleaders and the Trump cheerleaders pretty much defending or criticizing the opposite of what they were doing when "the other guy" did it. Suddenly Dem leadership are all acting like Mattis is their bestest buddy, and ISIS is a great danger and we need our troops in the ME. I've also seen way too many conservatives saying some pretty stupid things about Mattis in the "good riddance" sense (not so much in Congress, but more the "conservative pundits").
The last thing I want to see with Trump (or any President) is to be surrounded by yes men. I was pretty impressed with Trump's original cabinet choices and what looked like him surrounding himself with experts that he would listen to. Sadly, I'm starting to see that go in the opposite direction. He still does have around a year to turn that back around though.
I don't mind Trump doing the "I know more than anyone else" stuff with economic issues. In many ways, he has shown himself to be right. I'm scared about him doing that with national security issues. I'm very curious about who gave him information and advice, and what that was, that would cause him to blow off Mattis.
The problem with Obama is he was the one stirring it up and supplying ISIS with weapons.
I would be curious to know what is so important about Syria or the rest and why we should not pull out. However, if we stayed there and got out of Afghanistan, I would take that trade.
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It's like Trump has gone full 'tard this week. Syria, caving in on the CR/Border Wall, firing Mattis. He's taken his stupid pills for sure...
I will apologize ahead of time if I am nitpicking your post too much:
Did Trump cave on the border wall? I saw headlines assuming that, but it hasn't happened. The Congressional Republicans appear to have done so, especially lame duck Paul Ryan.
Did Trump fire Mattis or did he just decide he was done? I didn't hear it either way. I like Mattis, but I couldn't tell from the parts of his resignation letter I heard exactly why he was leaving.
What is stupid about his saying we should pull out of Syria? IMO, all the wrong people want us to be there and that bothers me.
I don't think Trump is perfect, but I am willing to let things play out and see what happens. He is still better than most of the alternatives.
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What is stupid about his saying we should pull out of Syria? IMO, all the wrong people want us to be there and that bothers me.
Not to jump in for Scout, but I think most people that have concerns, including Mattis, are not concerned about pulling out of Syria, in fact want to. The question is how we pull out. Mattis made it clear in his resignation letter that he doesn't want to police the world, which includes Syria.
That he was concerned enough about this that it was his last straw in disagreements with the President indicates to me there are strategically significant issues outside of the public eye that the President is blowing off.
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If it's just pulling out of Syria, it's probably an okay call. However, Mattis leaving leads me to believe that we weren't quite done killing ISIS. I'm actually fine if we pull back to Iraq, and help defend the Kurds there. I always thought that chasing ISIS into Syria was mission creep, but understand they they needed to hunted down to the last fighter.
There was no way I would support the never ending mission in Syria. It's bad enough that we are doing that in Iraq and A-stan. I fully believe in the Mattis Doctrine. Kill them, and keep killing them until they get tired of the killing.
However, I go and point back to what I said on the afternoon of 9/11/2001. "The last time we went up against an enemy that was willing to commit suicide to kill Americans, we had to drop two nukes to get them to stop."
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I can't disagree with that. Some enemies won't stop until you kill them and everyone around them and we haven't been willing to do that over there.
The other part I back off on is I think Obama helped create the situation by supplying "rebels" in Syria and toppling govts in Lybia and Egypt. We may have some responsibility for cleaning things up.
I have some faith in Trump that he will see that job is done properly. I don't have much faith in those that might follow him so I hope he gets it wrapped up. I guess part that means finding a capable replacement.
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If the standard is killing our enemies then we’ll never leave the Middle East until we commit genocide against most of the region.
Maybe the neocons can rustle up an EU military. Then they can continue to fight never ending wars in the Middle East for never clearly stated reasons with never clearly stated objectives.
Mattis was a great soldier who was effective because he is a true believer in the neo-con mission that he was helping implement. He did what he was asked to do enthusiastically because he agreed.
He wants out of the Middle East, he is against world policing, he is against transexuals serving and women in point of the spear combat roles. At least that is what I’ve heard. I haven’t seen much enthusiasm or effectiveness in any of those areas.
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If it's just pulling out of Syria, it's probably an okay call. However, Mattis leaving leads me to believe that we weren't quite done killing ISIS. I'm actually fine if we pull back to Iraq, and help defend the Kurds there. I always thought that chasing ISIS into Syria was mission creep, but understand they they needed to hunted down to the last fighter.
There was no way I would support the never ending mission in Syria. It's bad enough that we are doing that in Iraq and A-stan. I fully believe in the Mattis Doctrine. Kill them, and keep killing them until they get tired of the killing.
However, I go and point back to what I said on the afternoon of 9/11/2001. "The last time we went up against an enemy that was willing to commit suicide to kill Americans, we had to drop two nukes to get them to stop."
There was a time I thought it would have been a good idea to nuke ToraBora........
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If the standard is killing our enemies then we’ll never leave the Middle East until we commit genocide against most of the region.
Maybe the neocons can rustle up an EU military. Then they can continue to fight never ending wars in the Middle East for never clearly stated reasons with never clearly stated objectives.
Mattis was a great soldier who was effective because he is a true believer in the neo-con mission that he was helping implement. He did what he was asked to do enthusiastically because he agreed.
He wants out of the Middle East, he is against world policing, he is against transexuals serving and women in point of the spear combat roles. At least that is what I’ve heard. I haven’t seen much enthusiasm or effectiveness in any of those areas.
Mattis is a Marine. I dont; think he's a believer in as you call it "the neo-con mission". He does understand that we may not be done killing ISIS, that's his disagreement with Trump. I heard that ISIS number anywhere from 1,000 to 20,000 fighters left. What he does understand is civilian control of the military. At his level, he does get to give advice to the CINC, but if the CINC doesn't take his advice, then he can either 1) Say "Yes, Sir", and carry out those orders to the best of his ability, or 2) Resign.
And yes, he wants us out of the ME, but he has his reasons for believing that we are not to the point of pulling out. And regarding the women and trans-sexuals, those genies are already out of the bottle, not until those experiments are proven failures on the battlefield and the price paid in blood will we learn.
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The problem with Obama is he was the one stirring it up and supplying ISIS with weapons.
I would be curious to know what is so important about Syria or the rest and why we should not pull out. However, if we stayed there and got out of Afghanistan, I would take that trade.
proximity to Israel, which means there will always be a a fraction/fractions favoring it. that and the oil supply thing.
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I’m open to alternative points of view.
This guy has a completely different spin.
https://quodverum.com/2018/12/355/james-mattis-to-resign-as-secretary-of-defense.html
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Mattis is a Marine. I dont; think he's a believer in as you call it "the neo-con mission". He does understand that we may not be done killing ISIS, that's his disagreement with Trump. I heard that ISIS number anywhere from 1,000 to 20,000 fighters left. What he does understand is civilian control of the military. At his level, he does get to give advice to the CINC, but if the CINC doesn't take his advice, then he can either 1) Say "Yes, Sir", and carry out those orders to the best of his ability, or 2) Resign.
And yes, he wants us out of the ME, but he has his reasons for believing that we are not to the point of pulling out. And regarding the women and trans-sexuals, those genies are already out of the bottle, not until those experiments are proven failures on the battlefield and the price paid in blood will we learn.
Neo-con mission = Use the US military to become the primary political and military influence in the Levant.
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I don't have big problem with killing/destroying ISIS, but I see that as simply an offshoot of general Islamic extremism. I don't think we will be able to eradicate that.
IMO, the locals and others who depend on Middle East oil need to keep control of those radicals. I would like the US to get to a point where we can exercise foreign policy without sending troops everywhere for indeterminate periods of time.
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I don't have big problem with killing/destroying ISIS, but I see that as simply an offshoot of general Islamic extremism. I don't think we will be able to eradicate that.
This. There will likely always be some kind of islamic extremist group. I would like them to be fighting either Russia, each other, or some two-bit dictator in the sandbox instead of us.
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Neo-con mission = Use the US military to become the primary political and military influence in the Levant.
Again, he didn't create the mission, he inherited the wars. He wanted to do what our military is supposed to do. Win wars. And he did that. If we are not needed in Syria (notice again, no one is talking about Iraq, but Syria. Which is a sovereign nation, that we in essence, invaded, then we need to let the Syrians finish the fight on their soil. I think that ISIS has been beaten down enough for the Syrians and the Russian (and Iranian) allies to finish the job. Yes, I'm not happy about Russia and Iran being in Syria, but unless we are going to the Obama/Hillary doctrine and try to overthrow Assad, then there's not much we can do. \
Pull back to Iraq, protect the Kurds there, and let Syria sort itself out. If ISIS rears it ugly head again, then go all Mattis on them...again.
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This might belong in a separate thread, but I think I'll drop it in here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64GHrP3bCWk
Trump will test to the fullest the unlimited powers given him by the Constitution to command the American military forces as their Commander In Chief. To do so, he will dismiss from service any officer, any cabinet member, any staffer who opposes his order to secure the Mexican border. Will he find any who are willing to carry out his orders, even in defiance of both Congress and the Judiciary, the two branches of government that for many decades had been unconstitutionally usurping the powers of the Executive? Will the command structure of the American military withstand the enormous pressures that it will face in the upcoming days and weeks and months? Nobody knows. One things is clear, however: if a properly elected Commander In Chief cannot order his military to secure the country’s borders against invasion, America as an independent political entity in which the people are sovereign via a system of carefully crafted checks and balances in a constitutionally established federal structure of governance is finished.
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Again, he didn't create the mission, he inherited the wars. He wanted to do what our military is supposed to do. Win wars. And he did that. If we are not needed in Syria (notice again, no one is talking about Iraq, but Syria. Which is a sovereign nation, that we in essence, invaded, then we need to let the Syrians finish the fight on their soil. I think that ISIS has been beaten down enough for the Syrians and the Russian (and Iranian) allies to finish the job. Yes, I'm not happy about Russia and Iran being in Syria, but unless we are going to the Obama/Hillary doctrine and try to overthrow Assad, then there's not much we can do. \
Pull back to Iraq, protect the Kurds there, and let Syria sort itself out. If ISIS rears it ugly head again, then go all Mattis on them...again.
Kobayashi Maru for Mattis.
Agreed with your assessment.
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I really like the Monk. But I disagree with him on this one. Pulling out of shithole middle eastern countries is the right thing to do.
We do not to be in forever war.
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He wants out of the Middle East, he is against world policing, he is against transexuals serving and women in point of the spear combat roles. At least that is what I’ve heard. I haven’t seen much enthusiasm or effectiveness in any of those areas.
I am not aware Mattis did anything at all to get women out of the infantry. They are still there.
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I am not aware Mattis did anything at all to get women out of the infantry. They are still there.
Pretty sure he did nothing about any of the things I mentioned.
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Pretty sure he did nothing about any of the things I mentioned.
Yeah, you right Ron. I misread your post.
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Oh noes the trannies in uniformz!!!! ;/
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https://youtu.be/iOSb6xI_hl8?t=539
Nick Palmisciano from Ranger Up took some time at the end of this weeks Bad News Network to talk about this.
Like many of you, I'm not a fan of a forever war in the mid east. That said, we mucked up quite a bit in the mid-east and North Africa. I've spent a fair bit of time in that part of the world,and know quite a few people there including some Kurds who are likely in the cross hairs of the coming cleansing. For better or worse, the US had a hand in making the Syrian Civil War as bloody as it ended up being, and we told some folks that we would be there to back them up, and now we wont be, and folks are going to die. There's not all that many folks on the Arabian Peninsula that have proven to be our friends, and we are in the process of screwing a bunch of them over pretty hard.
I don't claim to be a Foreign Policy wonk, but I do know General Mattis, and if he thinks that this particular way of ending our involvement in the Syrian Civil War is a huge mistake, I trust his judgement. He's earned that.
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and we told some folks that we would be there to back them up, and now we wont be, and folks are going to die.
so what else is new?
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A comment I heard yesterday was Trump kept asking for a plan/timeline for getting out of Syria and kept getting plans delivered to him that pretty much had us staying indefinitely. We will see what comes out on this.
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https://youtu.be/iOSb6xI_hl8?t=539
Nick Palmisciano from Ranger Up took some time at the end of this weeks Bad News Network to talk about this.
Like many of you, I'm not a fan of a forever war in the mid east. That said, we mucked up quite a bit in the mid-east and North Africa. I've spent a fair bit of time in that part of the world,and know quite a few people there including some Kurds who are likely in the cross hairs of the coming cleansing. For better or worse, the US had a hand in making the Syrian Civil War as bloody as it ended up being, and we told some folks that we would be there to back them up, and now we wont be, and folks are going to die. There's not all that many folks on the Arabian Peninsula that have proven to be our friends, and we are in the process of screwing a bunch of them over pretty hard.
I don't claim to be a Foreign Policy wonk, but I do know General Mattis, and if he thinks that this particular way of ending our involvement in the Syrian Civil War is a huge mistake, I trust his judgement. He's earned that.
People shouldn't be making promises they have no power to keep. Presidents should not change their foreign policy just because someone down the chain made a promise.
If we don't want the US to be the World Police then they shouldn't be. We should not abandon that idea just because bad things might happen somewhere. There will always be temptations to get involved and political factions who push for it.
And if we are responsible for some of the instability in the Middle East, the answer to that is not a permanent mission there.
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https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-mattis-out-as-of-jan-1-deputy-to-be-acting-chief
The President is unhappy and now General Mattis will be leaving the office on 1 January.
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People shouldn't be making promises they have no power to keep. Presidents should not change their foreign policy just because someone down the chain made a promise.
If we don't want the US to be the World Police then they shouldn't be. We should not abandon that idea just because bad things might happen somewhere. There will always be temptations to get involved and political factions who push for it.
And if we are responsible for some of the instability in the Middle East, the answer to that is not a permanent mission there.
I don't completely disagree, but it should be noted that if our promises to our allies are proven to only be one President long too many times, we'll find it pretty hard to have allies. Allies have actually proven to be pretty handy to have.
As I said I have no desire for a permanent mission in the Mid East. There is probably something between permanent mission and "good luck with the genocide, we'll be at home". This country, (and Trump) are fast friends of Israel, and as such we're kidding ourselves if we think we suddenly won't have interests on that peninsula. We just made it harder to get help with those interests.
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We’ve been doubling down in places like Afghanistan and Iraq due to our commitments.
Unfortunately the folks we made the commitments to never really hold up their end or get their *expletive deleted*it together.
Bring the troops home, build the wall, American interests come first from now on.
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The folks we just bailed on have been pretty good about holding up their end.
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https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-mattis-out-as-of-jan-1-deputy-to-be-acting-chief
The President is unhappy and now General Mattis will be leaving the office on 1 January.
Yikes. That makes him look kinda petulant.
I'd be more open to accepting Trump's decision if I knew how it came about and just who advised him. I can't think of anyone at a high enough level with the relevant expertise. So far all we have is that there was a phone call with the nutjob in Turkey, and next thing you know, we're out of Syria with apparently no transition plan other than, "here today, gone tomorrow".
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"However, I go and point back to what I said on the afternoon of 9/11/2001. "The last time we went up against an enemy that was willing to commit suicide to kill Americans, we had to drop two nukes to get them to stop."
To the above, I'd bring back another quote..."...the lesson of Vietnam." War should always be the last resort, especially when we are attacked and further promised that we are total enemies and we are to either submit or be killed. Then it should be fought in the ways of the Old Testament. Kill them all...their relatives, women, children, animals everything and then cover the earth with salt.
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To the above, I'd bring back another quote..."...the lesson of Vietnam." War should always be the last resort, especially when we are attacked and further promised that we are total enemies and we are to either submit or be killed. Then it should be fought in the ways of the Old Testament. Kill them all...their relatives, women, children, animals everything and then cover the earth with salt.
I am confused. Why should we waste salt if the entire area has been nuked to glass?
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Mattis knew Trump was elected to get us out of these ME wars and that both the people and Trump were serious.
What the hell has he been doing all this time? He should have had plans in place.
Maybe he is gone because he refused to do his job.
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And maybe Mattis thinks the job isn't quite done yet in Syria ??
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And maybe Mattis thinks the job isn't quite done yet in Syria ??
Mattis probably thinks a repeat of the Obama administration's creation of Isis wouldn't be a good idea
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And that. However, I think that Islam extremism is here to stay. We'll smash one group and another will rise up in it's place.
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And that. However, I think that Islam extremism is here to stay. We'll smash one group and another will rise up in it's place.
Heard a really good synopsis from a former SF Officer on that the other day. The problem is that it's a game of whack-a-mole with no real geography to draw a line around. There's no real geography to go all von Clausewitz on, unless we wanna nuke half the world. It's almost like gun control for mass shootings - going after the guns doesn't help if you can't stop whatever the systemic problem is that drives the shooters.
So on the one hand, I see Mattis' point because he's kinda like the guy charging into the mass shooting scene and he wants to make sure all the bad guys there are neutralized before he clears the scene. On the other hand, there's gonna be more deranged shooters popping up elsewhere, and probably back in Syria again too in five years or whatever.
I'd just prefer to see a better planned pullout that doesn't leave our allies there hanging out to dry, or to be burned alive in cages on the youtubez.
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Whatever my thoughts on ending the interminable and unproductive interventions in the Middle East, when it comes to military strategy, geopolitics, and just about any other subject, I trust Mattis' analysis over Trump's.
I was impressed when Trump brought Mattis on board and I'm disappointed he pushed him out.
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I’m hoping Mattis had withdrawal plans ready to go and that Trump just bumped up the timeline.
More and more I’m realizing that we, the hoi polloi, not only are kept in the dark about most things we are purposefully fed disinformation and lies.
As it stands, Mattis could be working with Trump with his actions and everything we’re reading being disinformation. He’s a white hat MAGA man.
Mattis could be as the media is presenting it, wanting to wind down our forever wars over an unspecified length of time. He’s a neocon who wants to make the world safe for democracy.
Mattis could be a globalist who is an American agent of the western worlds imperialist cabal that the US deep state runs. Gaining control of ME countries governments and resources being their goal. He’s a globalist black hat in league with those who hate Trump.
Who really knows?
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He’s a neocon who wants to make the world safe for democracy.
Mattis could be a globalist who is an American agent of the western worlds imperialist cabal that the US deep state runs. Gaining control of ME countries governments and resources being their goal. He’s a globalist black hat in league with those who hate Trump.
Who really knows?
If you've even listened to him you would know that he's not a neo-con. I don't know why you keep trying to push that narrative when it's not even remotely close to true.
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The Hill has an interesting take on it:
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/422696-The-education-of-James-Mattis
Surveying Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, Trump no doubt feels his executives in charge of the defense, diplomacy, and reconstruction subsidiaries have failed to deliver after two decades and unlimited funding. They’re not ready to go to market, so it’s time to liquidate some assets.
Thus, Mattis was faced with a boss who thinks in terms of schedules and deliverables, and return on investment (ROI), with an added obligation to keep his promises to the voters. Mattis’s instincts should have been at their most acute, but he failed to understand that Trump really was getting the U.S. out of Syria, because as he said of the “moderate” Syrian fighters “we have no idea who these people are.”
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Mattis spent much of his time telling whoever would listen that he was at the Pentagon to protect it from the Commander-in-Chief, which is pedestrian Washington, D.C. image management, at odds with the selfless, soldier-scholar image he cultivated. Mattis the man is not the Mattis of myth.
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If you've even listened to him you would know that he's not a neo-con. I don't know why you keep trying to push that narrative when it's not even remotely close to true.
I realize he is just following orders, but our whole Middle East military adventurism is a neo-con enterprise and he has played a big part in that enterprise.
If he did more than talk about getting out and was more in line with the President I’d be less skeptical.
Trump has shown how there is tawk and there is action.
Mattis wants to continue the neocon strategy of military engagement in all these Middle East *expletive deleted*it holes. That is the neo-con policy regarding the Middle East.
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Looks like Trump is now up for slowing things down on the Syria pullout. Hopefully for a more strategically sound pullout. Wish he would have taken that deep breath before Mattis dropped off the resignation papers.
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/12/30/what-sen-lindsey-graham-says-trump-in-a-pause-situation-on-troop-withdrawal-from-syria/
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Looks like Trump is now up for slowing things down on the Syria pullout. Hopefully for a more strategically sound pullout. Wish he would have taken that deep breath before Mattis dropped off the resignation papers.
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/12/30/what-sen-lindsey-graham-says-trump-in-a-pause-situation-on-troop-withdrawal-from-syria/
So what you're saying is there's still a chance for Mad Dog 2020...
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Looks like Trump is now up for slowing things down on the Syria pullout. Hopefully for a more strategically sound pullout. Wish he would have taken that deep breath before Mattis dropped off the resignation papers.
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/12/30/what-sen-lindsey-graham-says-trump-in-a-pause-situation-on-troop-withdrawal-from-syria/
I fully believe we only see the tip of the iceberg. Everything under the surface is probably 100x the shitshow we see on the outside.
That whitehouse has to be an insane madhouse.
I have to believe that the Mad Dog took Trump at his word when he made the decision to pull out, and that was that. Mad Dog is a man of integrity, and probably didn't expect Trump to waffle.
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I fully believe we only see the tip of the iceberg. Everything under the surface is probably 100x the shitshow we see on the outside.
That whitehouse has to be an insane madhouse.
I have to believe that the Mad Dog took Trump at his word when he made the decision to pull out, and that was that. Mad Dog is a man of integrity, and probably didn't expect Trump to waffle.
Everything is on the table as a bargaining chip with Trump.
Everything Trumps says is suspect as disinformation.
Creating chaos, disruption of the status quo is a Trump tactic.
He has been better than I expected but in an unorthodox manner.
Accomplishment wise he has been an above average Republican so far. Nothing really that outside the box.
Regarding what it is safe to talk about in public, he has really moved the Overton window, he’s a master of anchoring the starting points of negotiations far to the right!
Mad Dog from what I’ve read is also a proponent of the chaos tactic. Trump just turns it up to 11.
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Everything is on the table as a bargaining chip with Trump.
Everything Trumps says is suspect as disinformation.
Creating chaos, disruption of the status quo is a Trump tactic.
He has been better than I expected but in an unorthodox manner.
Accomplishment wise he has been an above average Republican so far. Nothing really that outside the box.
Regarding what it is safe to talk about in public, he has really moved the Overton window, he’s a master of anchoring the starting points of negotiations far to the right!
Mad Dog from what I’ve read is also a proponent of the chaos tactic. Trump just turns it up to 11.
;/
Running a chaotic organization is not efficient. What that man is doing inside the Whitehouse is not some master tactic. He's not some master tactician. He's a bad boss, a bully and a moron and it's clear why so many businesses he ran declared bankruptcy.
Mattis is all for creating chaos for the enemy. Not within an organization.
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;/
... leftist talking points removed ...
Mattis is all for creating chaos for the enemy. Not within an organization.
I guess it depends on who is considered the enemy.
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Aw geez, here we go with the "I'd make a good General" stuff. Plus, "Hey, me and Obama both fired him!"
http://insider.foxnews.com/2019/01/02/president-trump-former-defense-secretary-james-mattis-didnt-do-good-afghanistan
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One thing I absolutely don't like about Trump is his propensity to heap abuse on former officials after they depart his administration. That's just childish. I'm perfectly happy when he trolls the Democrats, or Rocketman, but dissing the people he appointed to high positions is crude, rude, and socially unacceptable. It also raises the question: If these people were so terrible -- why did you appoint them?
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With the Mattis thing I'm about back to where I was on Trump to begin with. He's personally a dick, but Not Hillary and we got a few Supreme Court picks.
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Yeah, he should have just thanked him for his service and let him ride it out until the date Mattis gave. He's made a lots vets unhappy with 1) doing something to make Mattis resign, then, 2) firing him early, and now 3) bad mouthing a guy considered a demi-god by most vets.
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One thing I absolutely don't like about Trump is his propensity to heap abuse on former officials after they depart his administration. That's just childish. I'm perfectly happy when he trolls the Democrats, or Rocketman, but dissing the people he appointed to high positions is crude, rude, and socially unacceptable. It also raises the question: If these people were so terrible -- why did you appoint them?
Agree with all of the above, especially the last. All administrations go through staff, and sometimes people just don't work out. But going from, "This guy is the best in the world" to "This guy is the worst" multiple times really makes one reconsider Trump's ability to find "great people".
Also, I'll give benefit of doubt to Trump when he does the "I know more than 'X' advisor" for economic related stuff, because he has shown he knows a lot about that. However, I can't accept him doing so for national defense. That's why when many libs were crying about "all the Generals", I was happy to see him surrounding himself with experts.
To now say he knows more about military strategy than Mattis or any of the Generals he has dissed is ridiculous, and I'm still very concerned regarding just who is advising him regarding strategy. I haven't heard any names of experts Trump consulted with that may have a different take than Mattis, et. al.
Again, not from the "get us out of Syria" perspective, which I agree with, but the "How to get us out of Syria in a strategically sound manner", which it has become obvious Trump is pulling out of his ass. I'm glad he took the Christmas trip though, as somehow something people there told him, or stuff he saw, caused him to take a breath and step back to a more reasonable withdrawal strategy than the one that caused Mattis to quit (note Trump started the "You can't quit because you're fired!" routine regarding Mattis).
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Best reality show ever!
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One thing I absolutely don't like about Trump is his propensity to heap abuse on former officials after they depart his administration. That's just childish. I'm perfectly happy when he trolls the Democrats, or Rocketman, but dissing the people he appointed to high positions is crude, rude, and socially unacceptable. It also raises the question: If these people were so terrible -- why did you appoint them?
He does mostly do it with former people who have criticized him on the way out or after the fact. But I agree it doesn't look good except for the more extreme critics.
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Best reality show ever!
Is it?
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Is it?
There is nothing “real” about reality shows.
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He does mostly do it with former people who have criticized him on the way out or after the fact. But I agree it doesn't look good except for the more extreme critics.
While I still don't like the Junior High taunts, I don't even care that much if they are aimed at people like Omarosa (What the hell was she doing there anyway?). While I still wish he would take a more adult tone responding to it, they started it.
I really do care a lot when he does it to people like Tillerson and Mattis, who at least publicly, left their posts in a well-mannered way, and to me, are straight shooters who know their stuff. If they and the president didn't see eye to eye, that's fine, but don't take people with documented past success and cred, and who you were calling "the best and brightest" just two years ago, and now try and tell us they're a couple of dummies who can't dress themselves. Now I'm just hoping he doesn't go down this same road with Nikki Haley.
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While I still don't like the Junior High taunts, I don't even care that much if they are aimed at people like Omarosa (What the hell was she doing there anyway?). While I still wish he would take a more adult tone responding to it, they started it.
I really do care a lot when he does it to people like Tillerson and Mattis, who at least publicly, left their posts in a well-mannered way, and to me, are straight shooters who know their stuff. If they and the president didn't see eye to eye, that's fine, but don't take people with documented past success and cred, and who you were calling "the best and brightest" just two years ago, and now try and tell us they're a couple of dummies who can't dress themselves. Now I'm just hoping he doesn't go down this same road with Nikki Haley.
I haven't seen anything from Mattis that warrants a counter-attack, (I've been off of all media during Christmas. It was nice) but I recall that Tillerson was reported to have called Trump a moron before Trump responded.
So far, Mattis appears to be the only one outside of the customary Trump tactic of counter-punching.
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I haven't seen anything from Mattis that warrants a counter-attack, (I've been off of all media during Christmas. It was nice) but I recall that Tillerson was reported to have called Trump a moron before Trump responded.
I had heard that one, but both of them seemed to deny it at the time. Hence my caveat of "in public". It might be broken glass bottles and knives behind closed doors though.
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There is nothing “real” about reality shows.
... Oh, please,please,please don't tell me those are all fake!!!!! [tinfoil]
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... Oh, please,please,please don't tell me those are all fake!!!!! [tinfoil]
As fake as Chekov's accent in Star Trek TNG.
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As fake as Chekov's accent in Star Trek TNG.
Or Worf's head ridge in STAR WARS?
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Rather then starting a new thread.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-court-rules-for-trump-on-transgender-military-limits/ar-BBRNP8d?ocid=ientp
President Donald Trump announced in March that he would endorse a plan by former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis to restrict the military service of transgender people who experience a condition called gender dysphoria.
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So under what conditions can transgender folks serve?
It’s not a ban but a restriction.
Is this just one click of the ratchet to the left, not two?
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Cognoscenti are promoting Jim Webb for Secretary of Defense. He's the only D that I've had any like for over the last several decades. I bought and read his book Fields of Fire in 1978 and he is a highly decorated Marine. I'd like to see him get the position.
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His still being a Democrat makes me question his judgement.
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and consider it loyalty to a lost cause.
The question I would ask, Nationalist or globalist?
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So under what conditions can transgender folks serve?
It’s not a ban but a restriction.
The rules are now that they have to "present" as their biological gender and they can't have gender dysphoria (being transgender makes them miserable). Seems fairly reasonable.
I read an article some months ago that 90% of transgender service members had "other" mental issues simultaneously.... along with extremely high rates of suicide attempts.