Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on June 15, 2019, 01:38:05 PM
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In one way I actually thought this was kind of hilarious. The part that kills it for me is as mentioned in the comments, it's all about lefty shaming and scolding and nagging. Can you *expletive deleted*ing leave me alone and let me use whatever bag I want?
Before I left CA, wherever there wasn't an outright ban on plastic bags, you got charged for using them. I have to say that I got accustomed to a reusable bag. I had a couple of nice big and heavy duty ones, so I could get all my stuff in one or two bags. On the other hand, once in a while I like to get plastic bags because I reuse/repurpose them for all kinds of stuff.
In my part of Idaho, NOBODY uses reusable bags. They might over on the hipster Boise side, but on my side of the valley, I don't think I've seen a single person with a reusable bag in any store. Now I have way too many plastic bags because the clerks here go to the opposite extreme, and practically use one bag per item when they bag stuff, so I have bags coming out of my ears. :laugh:
Anyway, again, I found the concept funny, but at the same time naggy. I am pro-choice for shopping bags. :laugh:
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2019/06/15/these-are-hilarious-supermarkets-attempt-to-embarrass-shoppers-who-didnt-bring-reusable-bags-could-backfire/
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We have cloth/canvas reusable bags but most everyone here uses those, thin, plastic, bags. We like the plastic bags because we go through one a day scooping the cat box. Scoop, tie, chunk in the dippy dumpster! (The complex here uses big dumpsters for our trash)
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I use the grocery bags for cleaning up after Seren.
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I've debated keeping reusable shopping bags in the car, especially now that I've discovered the wonders of Costco and keep forgetting that they don't do bags there.
Around here, it's a thing but we've got enough rednecks that plastic bags are still predominate and the things are handy for animal messes, so I would prefer they stay in use. I'm in the "why not both?" camp. Even if I start using the reusable shopping bags, I would rather my raw meats go in a disposable bag.
As far as the bag shaming thing, BRING IT ON!! :rofl: Those are great!
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We use the plastic bags as liners for the smaller waste baskets. We have 6 of them scattered around in various rooms.
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I use the Walmart and Safeway plastic bags to scoop up after the dog as we walk.
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I can't stand grocery store plastic bags. They are too thin and weak to be of any real use and they tear so easy. I'd rather use quality cloth bags for shopping and proper trash bags for can liners.
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I use both regularly. I have a large cloth and a smaller one designed for cold stuff with a foil type liner. Also a large soft cooler bag. When I do a large shopping trip I usually use the reusable ones. Quick need a few things or decide to buy more than planned I have no issues with accepting the thin disposable bags that I reuse like others as trashcan liners, dog poo picker uppers, egg collecting or whatever else.
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and a smaller one designed for cold stuff with a foil type liner.
I've gotta get one of those to keep in the car. My distance for most of my shopping has doubled since I moved and it's warming up here. I got popsicles last week and they were about mushy by the time I got home.
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Thankfully most grocery stores here offer paper sacks. I get more mileage reusing those then I do from plastic sacks. Only place I use reusable bags is Aldi.
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I can't stand grocery store plastic bags. They are too thin and weak to be of any real use and they tear so easy. I'd rather use quality cloth bags for shopping and proper trash bags for can liners.
I double bag for cat box and dog poo clean up. Still cheaper than buying something.
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Thankfully most grocery stores here offer paper sacks. I get more mileage reusing those then I do from plastic sacks. Only place I use reusable bags is Aldi.
I miss paper bags. It's rare that I find a store that uses them anymore.
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I ask the sacker to keep the bags light (and milk in a sack) so I can distribute the weight for two trips up the stairs. I don't know what I'll do if they force me to go to personal sacks. Well, nothing, I guess, except vote republican twice in November.
There's a natural food store here I sometimes shop at, but the first time I was amazed that there were no, zero, null, nada bags. I was at a loss until I realized they had great big bins full of cardboard boxes of every which size which their products come in, so I toodled my cart over there and filled two boxes with stuff and brought it home that way.
I'm all for saving natural resouces, of course, but sometimes these greenies start to get to me.
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I miss paper bags. It's rare that I find a store that uses them anymore.
Most times I have to ask for them. Only one grocery chain asks "paper or plastic". Same chain also has a recycling box as you walk in to deposit old plastic sacks that are over accumulated at home.
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I miss paper bags. It's rare that I find a store that uses them anymore.
I actually don't. I thought I did and then I got some and they just weren't as great as I remember them. I actually like the plastic better for most things now. No soggy bottom issues from cold items, the handles don't rip off on heavy bags and you can tie handles on the plastic bags so stuff doesn't fall over and roll around loose in the trunk.
Plus, I have less that I can reuse them for.
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It always seemed to me that paper sacks were the reason plastic sacks were invented.
Too much risk of paper sacks failing with frozen foods and other moistrous things inside.
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Thankfully most grocery stores here offer paper sacks. I get more mileage reusing those then I do from plastic sacks. Only place I use reusable bags is Aldi.
Same here, I’ll request or use paper over plastic every time.
Plastic gets used strategically, meats and frozen items generally.
I have a bunch of reusable bags and I remember to grab them about a quarter of the time at best.
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It always seemed to me that paper sacks were the reason plastic sacks were invented.
Too much risk of paper sacks failing with frozen foods and other moistrous things inside.
That may have been one reason, but I recall most of the hype was that paper bags killed trees and Mother Earth. I recall when I was a young buck, in CA at least, for several years after the proto-SJWs went on their anti-paper rage, grocery stores would ask "Paper or plastic?" Then several years later they went to "plastic only" for the environment. In recent years of course we have reversed, and while "reusable" is the word of the day, the enviros would say, "paper over plastic" when reusable isn't an option.
As far as bags failing, both paper and plastic will, for different reasons, especially the thinner and cheaper bags of both materials. It used to be that the grocery checker would know when to double bag, but not so anymore. Though they are actually good about it at my little podunk family owned local grocery store, and even bag stuff in freezer bags if needed before putting it in the regular plastic bags.
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For grocery trips I use large mail totes (not US mail ones, though. Ones labeled Airborne Express) . Frozen in one tote, 'fridge items in another, and dry goods by location in the kitchen in two other totes. Nice and organized. easy to load into the car, and they don't fall over when you go around a corner.
This is the exact thing and color:
(https://www.mdi.org/sites/default/files/styles/product_full/public/images/1695-16017-corrugated-plastic-postal-tote-red-1577.jpg?itok=x4wPN8NB)
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It always seemed to me that paper sacks were the reason plastic sacks were invented.
Too much risk of paper sacks failing with frozen foods and other moistrous things inside.
Do you remember the frozen/cold food bags? It was a double bag with the inside bag being waxed paper.
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I used plastic bags for the small trash cans in the house as well as to haul drinks or lunch to work. My mother gives me leftovers to take with me when I visit. Lots of uses. IMO, the plastic bags are better than paper since I have better handles to carry stuff. Both are worthless if part of them rip or tear.
I used to shop at Target occasionally to get some of their plastic bags. They use a larger, stronger bag that reuses very well.
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...
IMO, the plastic bags are better than paper since I have better handles to carry stuff.
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I forgot to mention that in terms of carrying stuff upstairs.
Terry
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Here ya go:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freakingnews.com%2Fpictures%2F24000%2FMacy-s-Shopping-Bag-with-a-Gun-24230.jpg&hash=ae0f29f3bbcc77b13b8f97d06f1e184800e336d7)
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Heard on the news this morning that Frederick County, Maryland, is looking at enacting a complete ban on single use plastic bags.
The report mentioned that hospitals are concerned.
The report also mentioned alternate uses for the plastic grocery bags, including pet waste disposal.
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That may have been one reason, but I recall most of the hype was that paper bags killed trees and Mother Earth. I recall when I was a young buck, in CA at least, for several years after the proto-SJWs went on their anti-paper rage, grocery stores would ask "Paper or plastic?" Then several years later they went to "plastic only" for the environment. In recent years of course we have reversed, and while "reusable" is the word of the day, the enviros would say, "paper over plastic" when reusable isn't an option.
This. Plastic is evil is the current trend.
If only the US was the actual country creating a problem, https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/these-10-rivers-carry-95-of-all-plastic-into-the-ocean?xrs=RebelMouse_fb&ts=1538773082&fbclid=IwAR1YfD6xNrr-7vRp8n1Ju868tnIiBnvn1jRtoiuncapU3fC5OVdwt95lj5g
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There is a serious problem with reusable bags for groceries.
They create a risk for food poisoning.
https://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/2013/e-coli-infections-spike-after-plastic-bag-ban-in-california/
Do you wash your re-usuable bags out every time you use them? Does anyone?
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This. Plastic is evil is the current trend.
If only the US was the actual country creating a problem, https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/these-10-rivers-carry-95-of-all-plastic-into-the-ocean?xrs=RebelMouse_fb&ts=1538773082&fbclid=IwAR1YfD6xNrr-7vRp8n1Ju868tnIiBnvn1jRtoiuncapU3fC5OVdwt95lj5g
You're in violation of narrative, report to your nearest reeducation camp
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Someone needs Reneducation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lnfOvc_jGg
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There is a serious problem with reusable bags for groceries.
They create a risk for food poisoning.
https://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/2013/e-coli-infections-spike-after-plastic-bag-ban-in-california/
Do you wash your re-usuable bags out every time you use them? Does anyone?
Until I saw that headline, it didn't occur to me that they were also banning the little plastic bags in the fruit section. Those bastards!!
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Until I saw that headline, it didn't occur to me that they were also banning the little plastic bags in the fruit section. Those bastards!!
Unless it's new (like in the last 3 months), the produce section bags are still available in CA at no charge.
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There is a serious problem with reusable bags for groceries.
They create a risk for food poisoning.
https://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/2013/e-coli-infections-spike-after-plastic-bag-ban-in-california/
Do you wash your re-usuable bags out every time you use them? Does anyone?
Is that for real? It smacks of the "study set up to prove a thesis" stuff we've been seeing. I may be getting jaundiced, but I'm developing a strong negative reaction whenever I see the phrase "studies show."
MillCreek? Comment?
Terry
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Is that for real? It smacks of the "study set up to prove a thesis" stuff we've been seeing. I may be getting jaundiced, but I'm developing a strong negative reaction whenever I see the phrase "studies show."
MillCreek? Comment?
Terry
The study is linked and published:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2196481
Looks legit to me.
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If you put food in or on something and never clean it, don't be surprised if the wrong stuff starts growing in it.
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Unless it's new (like in the last 3 months), the produce section bags are still available in CA at no charge.
They said "ALL" plastic bags. I guess that wasn't accurate.
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Unless it's new (like in the last 3 months), the produce section bags are still available in CA at no charge.
I must be a terrible offender. I will bag my meat in the small plastic bags and THEN put it in separate plastic bags from everything else. Chicken will often get double bagged before put into a plastic bag.
SHUN AWAY!
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^^^My wife says that in the employee break room and the kids' cafeteria at her elementary school, reusable silicone bags are all the rage now for packing lunches. She has pointed them out to me at the local Target.
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^^^My wife says that in the employee break room and the kids' cafeteria at her elementary school, reusable silicone bags are all the rage now for packing lunches. She has pointed them out to me at the local Target.
I had a metal lunch box - Pigs In Space edition.
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https://youtu.be/cUtZXrNKlHg
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The study is linked and published:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2196481
Looks legit to me.
OK, thanks. Wow. Confirms my oft-stated opinion that ecological efforts are like poking a finger into a kid's party balloon. You push in here, it bulges out somewhere else.
Again, thanks.
Terry, 230RN
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If you put food in or on something and never clean it, don't be surprised if the wrong stuff starts growing in it.
So I guess the solution would be for them to provide disposable plastic bag liners for your re-usable cloth bags to prevent their contamination.
Right?
Riiiiiight. There you go.
Terry runs and hides.
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I may be getting jaundiced, but I'm developing a strong negative reaction whenever I see the phrase "studies show."
Terry
I have the same reaction to "well, it seems to me that..."
(appeal to self-authority?)
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^
Well, it seems to me that "well, it seems to me" is clearly labeled as a personal opinion, presumably based on at-hand information, and does not carry the weight of "science" to the listener as does "studies show."
Me, still in hiding. Shhhhhh.
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^
Well, it seems to me that "well, it seems to me" is clearly labeled as a personal opinion, presumably based on at-hand information, and does not carry the weight of "science" to the listener as does "studies show."
Me, still in hiding. Shhhhhh.
No. Not in the way that irritates me. It is clearly meant as "well, you can figure all you like, but I'm a sensible man, and it seems to me that..."
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Glass half full / glass half empty situation, I guess.
How did you find me? I'm still in hiding.
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Paper bags can be reused for range origami.
Cut the paper bag in half, then separate a couple seams and you end up with two torso-shaped targets.
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Paper bags can be reused for range origami.
Cut the paper bag in half, then separate a couple seams and you end up with two torso-shaped targets.
That is what plastic bottles and jugs are for.
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Glass half full / glass half empty situation, I guess.
How did you find me? I'm still in hiding.
I have made a study of the subject and it seems to me that studies show that plastic bags are better than many alternatives and most of the plastic pollution problem isn't happening in this country anyway.
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So I guess the solution would be for them to provide disposable plastic bag liners for your re-usable cloth bags to prevent their contamination.
Right?
Riiiiiight. There you go.
Terry runs and hides.
Seems to me (heh, heh) the cloth bags can simply be thrown in a washer occasionally . . . . .
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Seems to me (heh, heh) the cloth bags can simply be thrown in a washer occasionally . . . .
And how much energy, water, chemicals, and drying energy is used in sanitizing them? I know it's hard to parcel out in a regular batch of laundry and it don't look like much, but it ain't zero.
You push in the balloon here and it bulges out there.
Oh, and my time and personal effort ain't zero, neither.
You push in the balloon here and it bulges out there. Ayup.
Look, I ain't against conservation.. What I'm sayin' is you gotta look at the entire energy picture realistically, for example, from harvesting and processing the cotton to the final cloth sack product*, as opposed to drilling the wells and pumping the oil and the energy used in refining the crude to make a plastic grocery bag.
Sound ridiculous? Well, perhaps, but you've got to do some real analysis beyond the benefit of "feeling good" about a conservation measure.
You push in the balloon here and it bulges out there.
Terry, 230RN
* Not forgetting the fact that the cloth sack's energy costs can be amortized out over the number of uses it takes to wear it out.
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And how much energy, water, chemicals, and drying energy is used in sanitizing them? I know it's hard to parcel out in a regular batch of laundry and it don't look like much, but it ain't zero.
You push in the balloon here and it bulges out there.
Oh, and my time and personal effort ain't zero, neither.
You push in the balloon here and it bulges out there. Ayup.
Look, I ain't against conservation.. What I'm sayin' is you gotta look at the entire energy picture realistically, for example, from harvesting and processing the cotton to the final cloth sack product*, as opposed to drilling the wells and pumping the oil and the energy used in refining the crude to make a plastic grocery bag.
Sound ridiculous? Well, perhaps, but you've got to do some real analysis beyond the benefit of "feeling good" about a conservation measure.
You push in the balloon here and it bulges out there.
Terry, 230RN
* Not forgetting the fact that the cloth sack's energy costs can be amortized out over the number of uses it takes to wear it out.
Related, and important, cloth diapers are far harder on the environment than disposable ones. The amount of energy and waste to sanitize the diapers for reuse far exceeds what it takes to produce (and dispose!) of disposable diapers.
But the "woke" virtue signalers don't care. They use the cloth diapers, just like they use cloth bags. That are far more damaging and costly, BUT THEY ARE CONSPICUOUS, which is the more important feature. They are a sign that they are "better" than the hoi polloi, which is what this is all about.
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-sorry-banning-plastic-bags-wont-save-our-planet/
Oh look. More evidence that this is just counterproductive virtue signalling.
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So the plastic bags I use to pick up my dogs poo on walks are PLA, which is plant based and compostable. They are a little more expensive than polyethylene, but not that much.
Not sure why grocery bags couldn't be made of those., and throw them out.
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So the plastic bags I use to pick up my dogs poo on walks are PLA, which is plant based and compostable. They are a little more expensive than polyethylene, but not that much.
Not sure why grocery bags couldn't be made of those., and throw them out.
Do you sort them and send them to an industrial composter?
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I'm certainly not against plastic bags. Or paper, or reusable. I'm against the over-regulation involved. In this or any other similar topic.
That said, I'm 100% against littering. And plastic bags that are tossed on the ground, or escape out of garbage cans, dumpsters, garbage trucks, etc. are ugly and long-lasting. Along with other large pieces of plastic from various construction, shipping, farming, and other industries. I'd like to see a vegetable-based plastics industry start flourishing. Apparently it's known as "bioplastic." Like the product dogmush mentioned.
I don't think the technical challenges are difficult to overcome. And as I understand it, recycling is more efficient than petroleum-based plastics. Those items that are not biodegradable are more easily and efficiently reused.
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As I drive to work every morning, I take note that the roadsides tend to be very clean, right up until I get to the core area of metropolitan area, where areas and neighborhoods look like an open landfill (no exaggeration).
Plastic pollution is a people problem, not a materials problem.
See also:San Francisco poop map
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I use all of the above.
Biodegradable “plastic” bags do seem like a good idea.
After a storm I had a plastic grocery bag stuck way up high in the Magnolia tree in my front yard.
It really po’d me for months.
Another storm knocked it lower eventually and I was able to snag it down.
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My house is on the outside of the street corner. The predominant wind direction is down the street straight into the yard of my house and my neighbors. I am always picking up bits of plastic as I move. Small candy and food wrappers are most common. Plastic bags are rare and normally easy to see and pick up. If I don't get them, my mower shreds them and I have lots of little pieces of plastic to pick up that are hard to see.
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This stuff reminds me seeing a Tesla with a "Zero Emissions" bumper sticker. Just where the heck do they think the electricity to charge that thing is coming from, Harry Potter wands?
This is on top of the resources used to produced the battery(s) and then depose of it.
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Plastic pollution is a people problem, not a materials problem.
I couldn't agree more. It seems more prevalent in poorer communities, but it's not exclusive to any group. Respect for the environment has been lost, just like respect for everything else. Littering is another aspect of entitlement and the lack of personal responsibility. People seem to think they shouldn't have to clean up after themselves, that's what government is for.
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Plastic pollution is a people problem, not a materials problem.
Much truth there, and often has to do with demographics that we're not allowed to shame. Back in CA, I spent a good bit of time picking up trash along the outskirts of the land. Some of it was pickup loads from people who didn't want to pay the dump (and that could be white rednecks as much as anyone), but a lot of it was farm workers.
My cousin has orange orchards. It never failed that every picking season, the workers, who all parked along our shared road, would, during breaks, eat their packaged food and then just drop the wrappers, cans, etc. where they stood. I guess just a cultural thing that since they're out in public, or away from the city or whatever, that everyplace is a trash can.
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I use all of the above.
Biodegradable “plastic” bags do seem like a good idea.
After a storm I had a plastic grocery bag stuck way up high in the Magnolia tree in my front yard.
It really po’d me for months.
Another storm knocked it lower eventually and I was able to snag it down.
If it's a regular occurrence you might be interested in bag snaggers: http://bagsnaggers.com/ (http://bagsnaggers.com/)
ETA: The same thing happened in one of my trees with a birthday balloon that got away one year. It was up there for a full winter before it came within reach.
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Much truth there, and often has to do with demographics that we're not allowed to shame. Back in CA, I spent a good bit of time picking up trash along the outskirts of the land. Some of it was pickup loads from people who didn't want to pay the dump (and that could be white rednecks as much as anyone), but a lot of it was farm workers.
My cousin has orange orchards. It never failed that every picking season, the workers, who all parked along our shared road, would, during breaks, eat their packaged food and then just drop the wrappers, cans, etc. where they stood. I guess just a cultural thing that since they're out in public, or away from the city or whatever, that everyplace is a trash can.
Respect for property, respect for the beauty of the outdoors, cleanliness, and personal responsibility are all cultural mores that must be learned.
But it's oppressive to suggest foreigners who come here should learn to respect and join our culture. So expect more of this.
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So the plastic bags I use to pick up my dogs poo on walks are PLA, which is plant based and compostable. They are a little more expensive than polyethylene, but not that much.
Not sure why grocery bags couldn't be made of those., and throw them out.
PLA should work fine. It is incredibly recyclable. It's biodegradable, but still takes a while, especially if it is a bit thicker.
Short of certain chemicals that will melt most plastics, I'd love to see slightly larger, slightly thicker, PLA grocery bags that can honestly be used in small trash cans(and why is it so hard to find trash cans sized for such bags?) for places like bath and bedrooms.
I loved how they saved 40 kton of plastic by banning bags, but then had to deduct 12 kton of extra garbage bag sales.
It's sort of like how, back in the day, newspaper was always at hand for when I needed drop protection to protect the dining room table or other space from my latest project, but these days I have to get more creative.
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I couldn't agree more. It seems more prevalent in poorer communities, but it's not exclusive to any group. Respect for the environment has been lost, just like respect for everything else. Littering is another aspect of entitlement and the lack of personal responsibility. People seem to think they shouldn't have to clean up after themselves, that's what government is for.
IMO, there is nothing new here. There was plenty of littering back when I was a kid, we just didn't have plastic grocery bags. makattak is correct that it is something that must be learned, or made painful via fines.
There is a long standing "Don't Mess with Texas" anti-littering campaign that started in the 80's.
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If it's a regular occurrence you might be interested in bag snaggers: http://bagsnaggers.com/ (http://bagsnaggers.com/)
ETA: The same thing happened in one of my trees with a birthday balloon that got away one year. It was up there for a full winter before it came within reach.
You could use a pole saw to do most of what that would do, and then you would also have a pole saw. Also, if the bag was so tangled that you couldn't get it down, you might be able to just cut off the branch.
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You could use a pole saw to do most of what that would do, and then you would also have a pole saw. Also, if the bag was so tangled that you couldn't get it down, you might be able to just cut off the branch.
Or just pull out the toilet paper when no one is looking so you can complain about those "damn kids". Maybe no one will notice the bag.
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You could use a pole saw to do most of what that would do, and then you would also have a pole saw. Also, if the bag was so tangled that you couldn't get it down, you might be able to just cut off the branch.
Yeah, pole saws rock. I have the Harbor Freight cordless one, and it has been extremely handy.
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My house is on the outside of the street corner. The predominant wind direction is down the street straight into the yard of my house and my neighbors. I am always picking up bits of plastic as I move. Small candy and food wrappers are most common. Plastic bags are rare and normally easy to see and pick up. If I don't get them, my mower shreds them and I have lots of little pieces of plastic to pick up that are hard to see.
I live a block away south from a gas station, McDonalds, KFC and small shopping center. I'm always picking up windblown trash in my yard or pulling it out of my pond.
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Thankfully I don't have pond or a very big front yard.
One thing I thought about while mowing today is a lot of the plastic I pull out of my yard is shredded. That means one of my neighbors upwind (or possibly me) already ran the mower over it.
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Thankfully I don't have pond or a very big front yard.
One thing I thought about while mowing today is a lot of the plastic I pull out of my yard is shredded. That means one of my neighbors upwind (or possibly me) already ran the mower over it.
My neighbors are awesome about keeping their yards clean, anything shredded we find is more than likely from the commercial mowers at the retail places.
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Yeah, pole saws rock. I have the Harbor Freight cordless one, and it has been extremely handy.
Oh, well mine is cordless, too. No batteries or gas, either. =)
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Oh, well mine is cordless, too. No batteries or gas, either. =)
Jackass powered?
>:D
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Back to the OP, I wonder how many customers look at the bags they are getting and deciding to shop elsewhere ??
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Curious. Why did this get to be a sticky? What did I miss?
Fairly good technical information? Fairly good counter-greenie rhetoric? Accident? Whim?
???
Terry