Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: HankB on November 09, 2020, 06:15:02 PM
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My Epson WF-3640 printer died after a little over 5 years of service. I originally spent around $130 on it new but probably 3 - 5 times that in ink. It was good for me as long as it lasted.
So . . . any recommendations for a decent color home printer that doesn't cost a fortune? I've looked at Epson, Canon, and HP units with large ink tanks that look interesting, but all seem to have both fans and detractors. I'm trying to see what the APS community's opinions are. FWIW, I don't make enough copies that I need an automatic document feeder . . . though I'm not against having one.
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Printer only? Or do you want copier or other capability? Either way, go laser. Inkjets are for suckers.
If you go the MFC route, I can highly recommend Brother. I have their MFC-9340CDW and it has been totally reliable and no issues talking to my other stuff. I especially love being able to scan stuff directly to a network folder. Super handy when people send me stuff that i have to sign or whatever. Print, sign, scan to network and email back. I also love being able to do double sided in everything.
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Add me to the list of people who swear by (not at), a Brother laser MFP with duplex. If we need color prints or photos, my wife emails them to Costco, where they produce a much higher quality print/document for cheaper than her color Canon inkjet.
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What Ben and Millcreek said.
I've used Brother exclusively at work and have only positive things to say about them.
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Correct answer is Brother laser.
Second is one of the ones with the ink tanks.
I actually have an HP all in one with HP e-ink subscription. It really works perfectly with my phones and my Linux computers, but I'm supposed to tell you that HP is evil and you should never give them any money. They recently reneged on a bunch of printers that supposedly had lifetime free ink, and bricked them until the owners started paying for ink again. So if you don't like the idea of Carly controlling your printer from her lair, don't buy an HP. But actually I'm pretty happy with mine; I'm sure laser would be cheaper than the ink subscription but it would also probably take me 10 years to break even with the little bit that I print.
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Aside from the cost of ink, I've had two H-P ink jets die because they weren't used enough and the print heads got clogged beyond what the on-board cleaning utility could handle. A long time ago, an inkjet cartridge included both the ink and the printhead. The newer ones have the print heads separate, and they cost big bux. The cost to replace the print head was more than what I paid for the printer.
I scrapped the last one and bought a Canon color laser printer/scanner/fax. Unless you need photo quality color printing (on photo quality paper), laser IMHO is the only way to go.
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Here’s another vote for a Brother laser printer or MFC. They last a long time and don’t require repairs. It’s all we buy for work and home offices.
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My Epson WF-3640 printer died after a little over 5 years of service. I originally spent around $130 on it new but probably 3 - 5 times that in ink. It was good for me as long as it lasted.
So . . . any recommendations for a decent color home printer that doesn't cost a fortune? I've looked at Epson, Canon, and HP units with large ink tanks that look interesting, but all seem to have both fans and detractors. I'm trying to see what the APS community's opinions are. FWIW, I don't make enough copies that I need an automatic document feeder . . . though I'm not against having one.
Both HP and Epson have large tank printers, supposedly good for a long long time. All those I looked at were pretty pricey, and the HP ones had no Ethernet interface. "Networking" was wifi, or nothing. </boggle>. (Needless to say, I did not quote the HP to the customer looking for such.)
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I'm sure laser would be cheaper than the ink subscription but it would also probably take me 10 years to break even with the little bit that I print.
Lasers are just about competitive with inkjets nowadays, and if you only print a little, that's actually a pro in the laser column. You never have to worry about toner drying out over time and clogging up nozzles.
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My experience with Brother hasn't been great. But that was from one particular customer who insisted on buying craptacular* sub $100 (I think they were $88) Brother BW lasers for desktop use in a business. (Instead of the business quality Laserjet that the software vendor said they should have.) And, ended up with unresolvable intermittent problems with printer redirection in RDP sessions. Surprise!
(That was one of those "penny wise pound foolish" customers. Millions in equipment and buildings parked out the back door, but cheaping out on computer equipment.)
</rant>
*craptacular. right-click, "add to dictionary"
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Aside from the cost of ink, I've had two H-P ink jets die because they weren't used enough and the print heads got clogged beyond what the on-board cleaning utility could handle. A long time ago, an inkjet cartridge included both the ink and the printhead. The newer ones have the print heads separate, and they cost big bux. The cost to replace the print head was more than what I paid for the printer.
Yep, that happens. And ink cartridges have a limited lifespan, sitting sealed in their package.
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Yep, that happens. And ink cartridges have a limited lifespan, sitting sealed in their package.
Meanwhile, I have an old (VERY old) Sharp laser printer/copier/scanner that has to be close to thirty years old (I've been in this house for 25 years, and the machine came here with me) that still works. The downside is that there are no drivers for it under Windows 7 or Windows 10 so, at the moment, it only works as a copier. For a very long time I kept an old notebook and an even older desktop computer on Windows XP specifically to be able to access that printer but I finally surrendered to inevitability a few months ago and updated all the computers to Windows 10. I ran some test prints on the printer just before updating the XP computers, so I know the printer still functioned as a printer as of about four or six months ago.
That's not a bad run for a printer.
I also have an H-P 1100 desktop LaserJet that's probably about 20 years old. It also still works, and I was able to cobble together a driver combination that allows it to run under Windows 10.
Lasers are the way to go. I hope never to buy another inkjet printer.
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Meanwhile, I have an old (VERY old) Sharp laser printer/copier/scanner that has to be close to thirty years old (I've been in this house for 25 years, and the machine came here with me) that still works. The downside is that there are no drivers for it under Windows 7 or Windows 10 so, at the moment, it only works as a copier. For a very long time I kept an old notebook and an even older desktop computer on Windows XP specifically to be able to access that printer but I finally surrendered to inevitability a few months ago and updated all the computers to Windows 10. I ran some test prints on the printer just before updating the XP computers, so I know the printer still functioned as a printer as of about four or six months ago.
That's not a bad run for a printer.
I also have an H-P 1100 desktop LaserJet that's probably about 20 years old. It also still works, and I was able to cobble together a driver combination that allows it to run under Windows 10.
Lasers are the way to go. I hope never to buy another inkjet printer.
I've seen some HPs get dropped by Win 10. One specifically that a customer had bought 2005-ish, latest driver was for Vista. One release of 10 had dropped support for it -- poof! But the office laserjets are going to be supported for a good long time. You're going to run into problems finding repair parts before driver support goes away.
And ink cartridges have a limited lifespan, sitting sealed in their package.
Way back when (early '90s) I had a customer buy a high end desktop laser, and a spare toner cartridge. Didn't end up using it much. A couple years later, came time to swap in the new cartridge. Output was crap. Checked with the manufacturer. Unused cartridge, sealed in its package, had expired and gone bad.
So, happens with lasers too.
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I rarely print. I printed so infrequently that the ink tanks tended to dry up before I had really used them.
Got sick of that so I replaced the ink jet with a Canon all in one black and white laser.
I bought it on July 6, 2011.
Had some problems integrating it with my Windows 7, probably because I was running 64-bit instead of 32-bit.
I can print from my W7 machine, but to scan I have to launch my Windows XP virtual machine. Scans like a trooper, though.
Oh, and to show you how infrequently I print...
I'm STILL using the original low-capacity printer cartridge.
When I finally get around to upgrading to Windows 10 I'll probably have to get a new printer.
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I went with HP, again. Got the cheaper All-In-One as I NEEDED a scanner, the color printing is just a bonus, it is an HP OfficeJet 3830. They can be had for ~$60.
We also have an HP LaserJet 3005x business printer that my BIL gave me and I repaired by replacing the fuser kit that works GREAT! Amazon has one like mine for: $1,495.99 + $86.60 shipping, so that $75 "tune-up kit" back some 8 years ago was worth it. Getting it all replaced/installed was a bit of a b!tch though.
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My Epson WF-3640 printer died after a little over 5 years of service. I originally spent around $130 on it new but probably 3 - 5 times that in ink. It was good for me as long as it lasted.
So . . . any recommendations for a decent color home printer that doesn't cost a fortune? I've looked at Epson, Canon, and HP units with large ink tanks that look interesting, but all seem to have both fans and detractors. I'm trying to see what the APS community's opinions are. FWIW, I don't make enough copies that I need an automatic document feeder . . . though I'm not against having one.
Do you have a budget, either initiation cost or per print? Those will determine a lot of what you'll probably want to consider.
Brad
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. . . I actually have an HP all in one with HP e-ink subscription. It really works perfectly with my phones and my Linux computers, but I'm supposed to tell you that HP is evil and you should never give them any money. They recently reneged on a bunch of printers that supposedly had lifetime free ink, and bricked them until the owners started paying for ink again . . .
I remember HP winning a lawsuit when it came out that they were selling "ink included" printers that had only a little ink in the supplied cartridges, but how do they get away with weaseling out of a "lifetime" deal and then get to sabotage (brick) the printers? (Presumably they sent a virus or viruslike instruction with a software update.)
Aside from "HP is evil" I looked at some HP printers this week and didn't like the tricolor print cartridge design - run out of 1 color ink, you have to replace all 3 colors with a new cartridge.
Thinking about a laser color printer . . . thing is, these days the local BB doesn't have any printers (laser OR inkjet) on display actually set up to print like they used to, making it pretty hard to judge print quality. =(
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Aside from "HP is evil" I looked at some HP printers this week and didn't like the tricolor print cartridge design - run out of 1 color ink, you have to replace all 3 colors with a new cartridge.
The e-ink subscription really does change everything and to me it makes inkjet printers viable. I don't care how much ink cartridges cost anymore, and I never have to worry about how long they last either. I don't have to buy third party ink or cartridges that might not work in order to save money. I'm always using official cartridges, and if I get one that doesn't work I just send it back. I pay by the page so as soon as I get a new cartridge in the mail I install it and send the ild ones back, so I never run out anymore. It may be a deal with the devil but for me it works out.
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Using a 11 year old Brother 2280DW laser.
Don't tell Brother but I've been using $12 3rd party toners with zero problems
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Using a 11 year old Brother 2280DW laser.
Don't tell Brother but I've been using $12 3rd party toners with zero problems
Me, too. I searched for toner cartridges on Amazon using my Brother model number, and I was astonished at the number of highly rated third-party cartridges out there for cheap.
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I should try third party in my Brother next time around. I have always used OEM because of very bad experiences with the HPs at the old job. I don't think I ever got a third party cartridge to work in them correctly. Maybe on the old 2xxx series printers we had, but the newer (at the time) ones were extremely finicky on cartridges.
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I should try third party in my Brother next time around. I have always used OEM because of very bad experiences with the HPs at the old job. I don't think I ever got a third party cartridge to work in them correctly. Maybe on the old 2xxx series printers we had, but the newer (at the time) ones were extremely finicky on cartridges.
Current cartridge in mine right now. Looks like it went up a couple of dollars since I last ordered one.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JA586Y8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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I bought this: four high-yield cartridges for $ 35. As far as I can tell, they work at least as well as OEM.
https://www.amazon.com/LxTek-Toner-TN660-HL-L2360DW-MFC-L2740DW/dp/B07DQMVCLF/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3NV09EJUUNBU&dchild=1&keywords=tn660&qid=1605129188&s=office-products&sprefix=TN%2Coffice-products%2C241&sr=1-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFNVVlMMUlaNzlWOUEmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3NjUyMTEyWTFMOVVZRUdYQlA5JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4NzIyMDVYSlVGSVVNUDVUREkmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
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Aside from "HP is evil" I looked at some HP printers this week and didn't like the tricolor print cartridge design - run out of 1 color ink, you have to replace all 3 colors with a new cartridge.
Thinking about a laser color printer . . . thing is, these days the local BB doesn't have any printers (laser OR inkjet) on display actually set up to print like they used to, making it pretty hard to judge print quality. =(
HP makes good lasers. Even the $120 little desktop cheapo was great, until the cat pissed on it. But, I'm cool with "HP is evil". A bunch of different things over the years.
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I should try third party in my Brother next time around. I have always used OEM because of very bad experiences with the HPs at the old job. I don't think I ever got a third party cartridge to work in them correctly. Maybe on the old 2xxx series printers we had, but the newer (at the time) ones were extremely finicky on cartridges.
The fix for a lot of problems is, remove the offbrand refurb cartridge, install a new HP cartridge.
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I should try third party in my Brother next time around. I have always used OEM because of very bad experiences with the HPs at the old job. I don't think I ever got a third party cartridge to work in them correctly. Maybe on the old 2xxx series printers we had, but the newer (at the time) ones were extremely finicky on cartridges.
Jesus I remember having to use that off brand bullshit working for the Feds. We saved SO much money trying four cartridges to get one that worked.
Even the broke ass state was smart enough to buy name brand
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I really liked my ancient Brother laser printer; I think the model was HL-1650, or something like that. Very hard to find drivers for it now, even tho' it emulates Postscript. It died last year (bearing went out, probably fixable) so I gave it to a colleague who needed something that would work with Linux and wanted to tinker with it.
I replaced it with a Oki B412dn. It has worked flawlessly, but it's obviously less than a year old so it ought to still work good. Time will tell.
Both are monochrome lasers with duplex capability.
Wife bought an HP inkjet about the same time. It seems to work well but I refuse to use it because the ink is so expensive. We have an early HP inkjet that probably still works and takes huge-capacity cartridges, but they don't make cartridges for it. HP still sells them, direct order only, but I suspect they are new old stock and might not work. I don't want to chance it. Finding a driver for such an old printer would be an adventure anyway.
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Here's a question about laser printers - does the printer stop printing entirely if ONE toner cartridge is empty?
That was a peeve about my Epson inkjet - if one of the C-M-Y ink cartridges was empty the %$#! printer wouldn't print black, even if the black cartridge was full.
(I started to develop anger issues with that thing towards the end. ;) )
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I should try third party in my Brother next time around. I have always used OEM because of very bad experiences with the HPs at the old job.
We've got a couple of Brother printers here at the house. Third party cartridges have always been... problematic. We've gone back to OEM cartridges.
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HP printers are good so long as you don't load their clunky, invasive front end. Unless you need MFP functionality, the basic Windows print drivers are fine. The HP front end is tolerable if you disable the notifications.
Back in March I used a bit of house sale proceeds to up our printer game, excuse being SWMBO's department transitioning to a COVID-related home office format. HP M479fdw color laser. Went ahead and popped for extra high-capacity cartridges in all colors. It's ouchy expensive up front, but copy/scan functionality is fantastic, print quality is superb, it's fast, and per-page cost is extremely low, especially with the high-capacity cartridges. The print service plugins are nice, too. I never in a million years though printing directly from my phone would be a thing but I find myself using it all the time. We even occasionally use the fax function (why health and banking sectors still cling to the technology is beyond me, but whatever).
Brad
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HP printers are good so long as you don't load their clunky, invasive front end. Unless you need MFP functionality, the basic Windows print drivers are fine. The HP front end is tolerable if you disable the notifications.
That used to not be the case with the HPs. Again, with the 2xxx series, they had a very streamlined package for drivers and a very intuitive and easy manual network setup. The later versions of the install software were just gross with bloat, and it was even difficult to try and drill down to just the driver install setup.
I actually installed the full Brother suite with my MFC and have found most of it useful. What I haven't found useful, I easily disabled. This is a five year old MFC. I don't know about the current software.
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That used to not be the case with the HPs. Again, with the 2xxx series, they had a very streamlined package for drivers and a very intuitive and easy manual network setup. The later versions of the install software were just gross with bloat, and it was even difficult to try and drill down to just the driver install setup.
I actually installed the full Brother suite with my MFC and have found most of it useful. What I haven't found useful, I easily disabled. This is a five year old MFC. I don't know about the current software.
Go to HP's support website for the latest. You have to be careful what you download. You want "basic drivers". Lately I see 2 downloads under that. One is raw drivers, what you point the windows printer setup interface to if it doesn't know what you have. The other is an installer without bloatware, but that will search your network for the printer.
If you go full installer, you'll get all the extra crap.
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Just did a little reading on Brother laser printers . . . looks like they're taking a page from HP and shipping their printers with "starter" toner cartridges that aren't full capacity. =(
Apparently their toner monitoring will disable the machines after a certain number of prints unless you put in a new toner cartridge, even if there's plenty of toner remaining.
Unclear if
a) you can still print black if C-M-Y is empty;
and
b) if you can reset the toner count from the front panel on current machines the way you could on those from a couple of years ago.
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My daughter and SIL complain greatly about their Brother inkjet. Apparently there's an automatic cleaning cycle it goes through that just sucks ink mightily.
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My daughter and SIL complain greatly about their Brother inkjet. Apparently there's an automatic cleaning cycle it goes through that just sucks ink mightily.
Unfortunately that's a universal constant of ink jet printers. Cleaning cycles chug ink like a fat kid on a grape soda. Lasers cost more and cartridges can be spendy, but the cartridges last far longer, the toner doesn't dry up, and the per-page cost is much lower.
Brad
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My daughter and SIL complain greatly about their Brother inkjet. Apparently there's an automatic cleaning cycle it goes through that just sucks ink mightily.
First, understand this: PRINTERS ARE MADE TO SELL INK. There is a HUGE markup on ink cartridges - probably orders of magnitude more than on the printers themselves.
Cleaning cycles are a way to sell MORE ink.
From my own experience, Canon and Epson printers do the same as the Brother your daughter and SIL complain about.
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Quick revisit because I discovered an important non-feature in the default HP Scan "lite" software package that loads with the printer. Namely, the inability to scan to a PDF. Unless you have a network document server that the printer can be linked to in it's onboard menu, you're SOL. The default app has no scan to PDF function. A little digging turned up that the full HP scan app does. Why HP wouldn't include such a basic and widely-used function in the default app is beyond me, but that's the way it is. Good new is that the full app is a simple download and easy install.
One caveat. Uninstall the default HP Smart app first or it will butt heads with the full suite. Took me a good half hour to figure that one out. Once I uninstalled the default suite and the secondary instance of the printer, all was fine. I must admit that the app is impressively intuitive for those with a decent working knowledge of office computing. I did take pains to turn off the data collection aspect. Thankfully HP makes this a simple toggle during the install. It also includes an IRIS OCR function which seems to work very well.
Also, because the LaserJet Pro SWMBO and I got was so impressive, I recommended its baby brother for my parents. They were going through insane amounts of printer ink due to lack of use. Every time they wanted to print something at least one of the cartridges was either very iffy or completely dried up. With the LaserJet that won't be an issue. It also prints and scans duplex, something their old InkJet couldn't do.
Brad