Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on March 03, 2021, 06:00:27 PM
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I haven't touched anything with a two stroke motor since I was a kid. Because I currently have a project where I'm planting over 100 trees in rocky ground, I decided to save my back, support the CCP, and buy a Harbor Freight power auger.
Upon reading the instructions, they were adamant about besides the 50:1 gas/oil mix that I also add fuel stabilizer OR THE WORLD WILL EXPLODE IN A BALL OF FLAME!!! Anyway, the seemed very serious about using the fuel stabilizer or voiding the warranty. Is that an ethanol thing or something? If I buy non-ethanol gas does that mean I don't need the stabil?
Though I know I overpaid because I was in a hurry, right now the fuel tank has the STP premix that HF sells for their two stroke stuff. 91 octane + oil + stabilizer. The manual didn't say anything about 91 vs 87 octane.
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I've got one of those HF augers. Bought it for a fence project that has since been postponed. However, I did use it to drill a couple of holes for a strawberry wall. It worked pretty well, and I don't believe the gas I used to make the mix had stabilizer in it. I am still alive and did not disappear in a ball of flame or suffer explosive disassembly.
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I've got one of those HF augers. Bought it for a fence project that has since been postponed. However, I did use it to drill a couple of holes for a strawberry wall. It worked pretty well, and I don't believe the gas I used to make the mix had stabilizer in it. I am still alive and did not disappear in a ball of flame or suffer explosive disassembly.
It's pretty powerful. For the coyote willow poles I'm planting, I'm using the 2" accessory auger, and even that little auger, drilling in pit run, has about spun me around a few times. I am beat today. I also used the 6" auger to plant some other trees in non-rocky ground, and the bigger auger went down easy as pie. Sadly, 100 of 140 holes I'll be drilling are in the pit run. I'm going to be a pile of jelly by the end of the week.
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I would bet they put that out there because of the people who buy one, fill it up, use half a tank of fuel and then put it in the shed until next year when they need to drill another hole. Probably has nothing to do with proper operation, just trying to keep their warranty returns down.
bob
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I would bet they put that out there because of the people who buy one, fill it up, use half a tank of fuel and then put it in the shed until next year when they need to drill another hole. Probably has nothing to do with proper operation, just trying to keep their warranty returns down.
bob
My thinking as well. It's a pain to have to clean out clogged carbs.
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Find a source of non-ethanol premium gas and use that. The best oil for air-cooled premix engines is JASO-FD (that's a rating, not a brand) and it should have a black box with a D on the label but that mark might not be mandatory. Citgo or Mystic (they are the same thing) Sea and Snow is what I use. Or you can buy little bottles of Stihl or Echo oil.
Fuel stabilizer is not necessary, just use fresh gas. It probably does stay fresh longer with Stabil.
ETA: I think Homelite oil in the little bottles is the equivalent of JASO-FC; it'll work in a pinch but you don't want to use it all the time; it probably lubricates just fine but it's not low-smoke and will eventually clog up the spark-arrestor screen in the exhaust.
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The Fuel Stabilizer is only for when it sits unused for any time to prevent the fuel from turning to varnish/absorbing water.
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Okay, thanks guys. I always put stabil in all my small engine stuff for the Winter. I would have done it with this too, but they way the instructions read, they seemed to be saying "don't run it without it" versus "don't store it without it", so I was wondering if I was missing something.
Plenty of ethanol free gas in these parts. I've been using it in my small four stroke engines.
I've got a jug of the Stihl oil for the chainsaw fuel, so I'll use that for the auger as well. Oh, hey, I guess I HAVE been using another two stroke engine. Forgot about the chainsaw, which is kinda Alzheimer-y, considering how much I use it. :laugh:
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Do you have an airport nearby to get some real fuel?
I put stabil in every five gallon jug I get outside spring summ when the mower eats it up every week.
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I have a Jiffy 30xt 8" Ice Auger I just run the 50:1 canned fuel in it. It's cheaper in the long run since I only use a few months out of the year and it sits the rest of the time. I even used canned pre mix for my chainsaws. I went through 3 quarts so far on a big ash tree I felled on Saturday.
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The 50:1 mix is an EPA thing, 32:1 will be better for engines long term, and definitely avoid ethanol.
I use Marine 260 Sta-Bil in small engines, even with regular use.
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The 50:1 mix is an EPA thing, 32:1 will be better for engines long term, and definitely avoid ethanol.
I use Marine 260 Sta-Bil in small engines, even with regular use.
I have pretty much switched to 50:1 for all my 2 strokes, except my sail boat kicker motor which is 100:1.
I have a lot less starting problems and I go through a lot less spark plugs with a leaner mixture and I don't get smoked out anymore.
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Huh. It is a pain in the tuchis to find non-ethanol gas in this area, and puregas.com is often out of date. The local marinas and airports will not sell gas unless you are driving up in your boat or plane.
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Harbor Freight is simply acknowledging what we all know....the average consumer is an idiot. If HF doesn't put it in BOLD print and use emphasis in it's wording, the average Joe will ignore all warnings and use something with a cigarette in one hand and a beer in the other, and then bitch when something blows up, or he falls down using it while drunk. I can't blame them. But... there is some validity to additives to protect the small engines and stabilize gas. It doesn't cost all that much to protect the engine from the ethanol in gas, or the degrading from sitting around for months.
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I have pretty much switched to 50:1 for all my 2 strokes, except my sail boat kicker motor which is 100:1.
I have a lot less starting problems and I go through a lot less spark plugs with a leaner mixture and I don't get smoked out anymore.
I have engines that are used regularly and I haven't changed a spark plug in decades.
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I have engines that are used regularly and I haven't changed a spark plug in decades.
Any small engines I put away for any length of time gets a generous dose of Seafoam and then some Star Tron enzyme treatment. I then run them dry. I have never had any fuel related issues after storage.
bob
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I have engines that are used regularly and I haven't changed a spark plug in decades.
My old lawn boy liked to foul plugs 2x a mowing season, wasn't a rich mixture, oil fouled plugs everytime. I'm still on the same plug on my 4 year old Echo chainsaw.
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For that many holes rent an auger. For the same money you’ll get a much better machine, and it will be faster. And you won’t have to store or maintain it. Or worry about fuel stabilizer.
That said, for my chainsaw at least I’ve gone to 40:1 at least. Hurts emissions I guess but the engine is happier.
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Some years ago, I had a Stihl chainsaw (an MS260 18" - ??) with about 10 hours of actual runtime. Something happened and the engine seized. After contacting Stihl, they had me ship it off to their repair store nearest me (~150 mi away) where they could find no logical reason for it to have died. At no charge to me, they replaced the power unit with one from another unit that had suffered other damage (not to the motor) and suggested that I run the oil a bit stronger (40 or 45:1 instead of 50:1) and to run it dry when finished with it every time. They also suggest premium gas as the engine will run cooler.
I have not found any non-ethanol gas in this area that doesn't come in a premixed can at exorbitant prices. I use the regular Sta-Bil (pink) in all my stored gas, both regular and premium. I haven't had any problems since the incident with the chainsaw.
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50:1 is in part due to better materials and tolerances but also due to government and the engines being disposable. My dad thinks it is a sham and he was racing two strokes in the 60s. He liked about 8:1 for 100 mile kart races and not lean it out until late in the race. People were making more power at 16:1 but their motors died. I miss the smell of castor oil. Of course on those mixes he said they had one plug to start and warm the engine, another to go racing. Carry an extra plug not unheard of.
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For that many holes rent an auger. For the same money you’ll get a much better machine, and it will be faster. And you won’t have to store or maintain it. Or worry about fuel stabilizer.
That said, for my chainsaw at least I’ve gone to 40:1 at least. Hurts emissions I guess but the engine is happier.
Renting an auger would have cost me more than buying this one, for the days I would need it. Despite my trying not to buy Chinese as much, the HF Predator machines are pretty Honda-like, and I have other future uses for this one.
I was looking at getting a post holer for the tractor, but couldn't have used it for this project because it's planting habitat and streambank stabilization vegetation in place I can't get to with a tractor.
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Are you planting seedlings or cut stems?
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Are you planting seedlings or cut stems?
A bunch of stuff. It's part of an NRCS contract I'm doing, and the species were recommended by them. Around 100 coyote willow poles I harvested from the fish and game land across the street, then 40 various native trees and large shrubs that I ordered from Plants of the Wild (a WA nursery for Pacific Northwest natives) as seedlings - black cottonwood, peach leaf willow, scouler willow, golden currant, and silver buffaloberry.
The coyote willow poles all have to hit the Summer water table, so the holes are just about the length of the auger, which has been the biggest pain with the rocky ground. I have to drill the hole with the 2" auger, stick in the pole, then pour in a mud slurry to ensure full soil contact. The seedlings just have to go in to cover the root system, so a much shallower hole with the 6" auger, which has been much easier to do.
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A Dribble tool might be a better option for the smaller stuff.
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A Dribble tool might be a better option for the smaller stuff.
I didn't know what a dibble bar was until I watched the video.
https://youtu.be/uUzeruQT8xE
Problem is that the willows are going 30" down in really rocky sandy soil. For the seedlings, the nursery sends them in an ~8" long soil plug, so it's not bare root planting as demonstrated in the video. Like I said, for the seedlings, the auger has been really easy work. The willow poles have been the pain in the ass.
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I had to look up coyote willow, it's also known as sandbar willow. I've planted tons of those with 8" cut stems bud up either just sticking in the mud/sand or using a dibble. They love to spread and cutting/fire seems to make them angry and clone harder. Beaver love to eat them, I'm looking forward to your post in a few years about your beaver problem. Start buying #330 bodygrip traps and 7" jaw spread foot hold traps. :)
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I had to look up coyote willow, it's also known as sandbar willow. I've planted tons of those with 8" cut stems bud up either just sticking in the mud/sand or using a dibble. They love to spread and cutting/fire seems to make them angry and clone harder. Beaver love to eat them, I'm looking forward to your post in a few years about your beaver problem. Start buying #330 bodygrip traps and 7" jaw spread foot hold traps. :)
Haha! I'll become a beaver trapper! =)
I haven't seen any beaver around here yet. Lots of muskrats.
NRCS gave me a planting guideline for the coyote willow that required 3/4" stem, two year or older growth, and no less than half the pole in the ground, so given the water table depth, all my poles are 6-ish feet. NRCS is counting on them spreading like crazy along this streambank as soon as possible. The other stuff planted is more a long term thing so that everything isn't coyote willow. By the time the cottonwoods get big, I'll be long dead though.
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Huh. It is a pain in the tuchis to find non-ethanol gas in this area, and puregas.com is often out of date. The local marinas and airports will not sell gas unless you are driving up in your boat or plane.
MillCreek,
Your handle notwithstanding =D I don't know where you are in Snohomish Co. but we can get Ethanol free 87 octane at the River Rock station off I-5 exit 208. Also if you are near the Arlington Airport, Arlington Flight Services has 91 Octane Ethanol free for airplanes (with commensurate pricing!) and they will (at least in the past) let you fill gas cans at their (card lock) pumps 24-7.
Steve
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50:1 is in part due to better materials and tolerances but also due to government and the engines being disposable. My dad thinks it is a sham and he was racing two strokes in the 60s. He liked about 8:1 for 100 mile kart races and not lean it out until late in the race. People were making more power at 16:1 but their motors died. I miss the smell of castor oil. Of course on those mixes he said they had one plug to start and warm the engine, another to go racing. Carry an extra plug not unheard of.
My Dad raced them as well but I think his were 4-cycle. This was the early 60s in southern Illinois about 20 miles north of Marion.