Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MechAg94 on August 20, 2021, 10:16:04 PM
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Joe Biden Bans Russian Ammunition Importation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbAojJYunBA
https://www.ammoland.com/2021/08/breaking-biden-administration-bans-importation-of-russian-guns-and-ammo/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork
Biden Administration Bans Importation of Russian Guns and Ammo
Fun times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEuKAzGgoDA
No More Russian Ammo - New Sanctions! Biden Bans Ammo - WHAT?!
AK Operators Union, Local 47-74
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I will be setting up shop for you Arsenal AK owners. I have 200 dollars US Cash money per rifle. ;)
bob
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I just ordered some Belom 7.62x39 from Global Ordnance. Still showed in stock, but we will see. I figured the price would go up if nothing else.
I have ammo, but it certainly makes me less likely to do any blasting. This sucks.
Also, a lot of steel case ammo has been filling the ammo shortage hole for the last year. I think just about every caliber will be affected.
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Well poop
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Any thought this might be in retaliation for the recent Hunter Biden laptop stuff hitting the news? Screwing with the gun industry is a happy side affect for them.
Or maybe the State Dept is trying to cover up their complete failure in getting their people out of Afghanistan.
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I seem to remember several predictions here on APS that they would likely go after import ammo.Russia is low hanging fruit.
My guess is we will see another run on ammo of all types.
I did get my bulk packed 1K round box of Federal/LC .223 delivered today. While the price was higher than I was really comfortable with I'm a little less conflicted now.
The Harris/Biden administration is NOT going to slow down on their assault on the 2A
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Any thought this might be in retaliation for the recent Hunter Biden laptop stuff hitting the news? Screwing with the gun industry is a happy side affect for them.
Or maybe the State Dept is trying to cover up their complete failure in getting their people out of Afghanistan.
I'm sure it was on the to do list long before either one and I predicted it even before Jan 20. Honestly I'm shocked it took them this long. Messing with imports is something they can do without congress
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I was just on S and G ammo, and they didn't have any russian made 5.56 at all. Don't know if it all sold out yesterday, or they just didn't have stock when the news dropped.
I did get 1000 rds of brass cased 5.56 for 51 cents per round.
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I was under the impression sanctions were lifted recently so Russia can have an oil pipeline. I don't believe this is about Russia.
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I was under the impression sanctions were lifted recently so Russia can have an oil pipeline. I don't believe this is about Russia.
Of course this is not about Russia and chemical weapons. This is about screwing gun owners.
On the list of imports from Russia, based on value, arms and ammo comes in 12th. If Biden wanted to put a financial squeeze on Russia, he could easily ban much more valuable goods.
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I was under the impression sanctions were lifted recently so Russia can have an oil pipeline. I don't believe this is about Russia.
I didn't read the articles on that, but I thought it was a narrow decision that only affected that one thing, not all sanctions.
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For Russia, this is far too piddly of a thing to consider as a US sanction. The Ruskies can sell this stuff in any number of places around the world (or trade for some Blackhawks). This is absolutely an attack on US gun owners.
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Start a go-fund-me to buy one of Hunter's paintings?
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Anyone want to bet that as soon as Biden figures out he can get away with this, he'll ban the import of all ammunition, regardless of where it comes from? Banning ammo from Russia is probably just the beginning.
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Anyone want to bet that as soon as Biden figures out he can get away with this, he'll ban the import of all ammunition, regardless of where it comes from? Banning ammo from Russia is probably just the beginning.
I think that would be easy enough for him to do. Does anyone know the percentage of "recreational" ammo that is imported?
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Mrgunsngear just did a video on this and said that 40-45% of our ammo is imported from Russia. If that's accurate, even if other countries only export a little bit to us, it's gonna be over half of our civilian ammo.
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Mrgunsngear just did a video on this and said that 40-45% of our ammo is imported from Russia. If that's accurate, even if other countries only export a little bit to us, it's gonna be over half of our civilian ammo.
I find it VERY difficult to accept that anywhere near 40-45% of our ammunition comes from Russia. It's possible that -- overall -- we import almost half of our ammo, but not from Russia alone.
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I find it VERY difficult to accept that anywhere near 40-45% of our ammunition comes from Russia. It's possible that -- overall -- we import almost half of our ammo, but not from Russia alone.
I just rewatched the video to make sure I didn't mis-hear or that he was talking only about 7.62x39 or something. I tried searching, but haven't found anything with percentages yet. I'm still actually curious about overall percentage of imported ammo, just to see how much of a pain in the ass 46 will be.
https://youtu.be/pbAojJYunBA
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Okay, here's one that says 40% is from Russia:
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/russian-ammo-imports-banned-halted/424581#:~:text=According%20to%20Brown%2C%20roughly%2040,U.S.%20originates%20from%20Russian%20sources.
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Okay, here's one that says 40% is from Russia:
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/russian-ammo-imports-banned-halted/424581#:~:text=According%20to%20Brown%2C%20roughly%2040,U.S.%20originates%20from%20Russian%20sources.
Time for American companies to step up
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I can believe 40%. Wolf and Tula are huge these days
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My LGS just posted on this and said that Wolf has a ginormous factory in Ukraine. Maybe there are some, at least temporary, loopholes. The restriction says "manufactured or located in Russia".
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My LGS just posted on this and said that Wolf has a ginormous factory in Ukraine. Maybe there are some, at least temporary, loopholes. The restriction says "manufactured or located in Russia".
People will still panic though no doubt jacking the prices back up.
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.
Agent K
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Which reminds me. Back to shopping for an air rifle.
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People will still panic though no doubt jacking the prices back up.
That is exactly why my LGS posted that. They said they were getting slammed with questions, and were telling people to stay calm, because a hoarding run on ammo now means that US sellers can jack the prices back up.
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Yep about 40% of the plinking 5.56, 7.62x39, 9MM etc comes from Russia. I'm hoping wolf makes the primer somewhere they still ship them in. I've used many and they are as good as CCI.
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I wonder about that 40% number. Wolf for example was made in Russia, but is now Taiwan and is actually an American company I believe. A lot of imported ammo actually comes out of Serbia, Israel, Czech Republic, etc. I’ve been buying and shooting a lot of Norma handgun ammo now that they make it, that’s Norway. Fiocchi has always been a big name out of Italy. I’m not convinced this ban will make that big a difference. Especially as other manufacturers have increased production capacity recently.
Of course Biden could try to ban imports from other countries.
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I wonder about that 40% number. Wolf for example was made in Russia, but is now Taiwan and is actually an American company I believe. A lot of imported ammo actually comes out of Serbia, Israel, Czech Republic, etc. I’ve been buying and shooting a lot of Norma handgun ammo now that they make it, that’s Norway. Fiocchi has always been a big name out of Italy. I’m not convinced this ban will make that big a difference. Especially as other manufacturers have increased production capacity recently.
Of course Biden could try to ban imports from other countries.
Interesting. It's been a long time since I bought factory ammo so haven't paid much attention but the 40% number has been from several venders. Maybe they don't know where the ammo is made or are going to use it as an excuse to raise prices back up above last years highs.
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Interesting. It's been a long time since I bought factory ammo so haven't paid much attention but the 40% number has been from several venders. Maybe they don't know where the ammo is made or are going to use it as an excuse to raise prices back up above last years highs.
I could very well be wrong. I’m certainly not a dealer. It’s been decades since I bought any ammo actually made in Russia though, so I find it hard to believe that 40% number. Now I do purposefully avoid any steel case or anything with steel in the actual bullet. I know that was at least common with Russian ammo. I also generally go through more than my fair share of ammo with several firearms with giggle switches so it seems I would run into more Russian ammo if that number was accurate.
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I can easily believe Russia makes 40% of the imported ammo. Harder to believe 40% of all of it. I guess more people will talk about that.
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https://gunzonedeals.com/product/tula-7.62x39-122gr-fmj-1000-rd-case
https://gunzonedeals.com/product/tulammo-ta223550-centerfire-rifle-223-remington5.56-nato-55-gr-full-metal-jacket-20-bx-50-cs-2#product_detail
Gun Zone Deals has cases of Tula ammo at 50 cents per round. I was thinking Tula was a little less than that, but not much.
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https://gunzonedeals.com/product/tula-7.62x39-122gr-fmj-1000-rd-case
https://gunzonedeals.com/product/tulammo-ta223550-centerfire-rifle-223-remington5.56-nato-55-gr-full-metal-jacket-20-bx-50-cs-2#product_detail
Gun Zone Deals has cases of Tula ammo at 50 cents per round. I was thinking Tula was a little less than that, but not much.
Here is PMC for .50 a round. Brass case and boxer primed. I’m sure the ban will make a difference, I don’t believe it will be a drastic increase in price at this time. Of course I could very well be completely wrong.
https://trueshotgunclub.com/ammunition/rifle-ammo/223-rem/pmc/pmc-bronze-223-rem-55-grain-fmj-1000-rounds/?avad=211021_f237fc6c9
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Wolf Gold is, IIRC, made in Taiwan. It wouldn't surprise me to find out a lot of "Russian " brands had opened plants in other countries over the last 10 years or so.
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Which reminds me. Back to shopping for an air rifle.
44-50 cal air rifle is on my list.
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The 3D printed gun crowd is working on do it yourself propellant. I'll just make my own ammo before I switch to air guns.
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The 3D printed gun crowd is working on do it yourself propellant. I'll just make my own ammo before I switch to air guns.
Keep looking on and off for something to plink with without having to my tap into my rimfire stash where it's increasing by the day costing more to replenish. Also having something to quietly take out small game without dealing with a suppressor tax stamp is a bonus.
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Keep looking on and off for something to plink with without having to my tap into my rimfire stash where it's increasing by the day costing more to replenish. Also having something to quietly take out small game without dealing with a suppressor tax stamp is a bonus.
I have a .38 Special load I worked up for my Marlin 1894C about a dozen or so years ago that fits that niche.
Very quiet load out of the rifle, not much louder that a .22 short out of a revolver and considerably quieter than a .22 LR out of a rifle.
I need to look through my ammo stash to see if I have any left. I know I have it documented in my notes with chronograph results and a couple of saved targets. It's cast lead (straight wheel weights probably) 158 gr. lrnfp (Lee mold) over a light charge of Unique. at 25 yards I could cut single hole groups all day. I did knock off a couple of long eared garden thieves with it but moved on to other shiny goals before I'd full rung it out. Time to revisit it I think
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The only Russian stuff I shoot is out of my AK/SKS. Purchased quite a bit of Wolf, Brown Bear and Tula stuff back when it was cheap. Since the cost increase on that stuff, I’ve been reloading 7.62x39 so the ban won’t bother me much. But, I am not a fan of how it will affect others.
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I'm glad I got a good deal on dies, brass and some bullets for 7.62 not long ago and I already have a mold.
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Tim at MAC chims in and attempts to inject a bit of sanity into all of this
Russian ammo gone? WAIT! Don't sell those AK's just yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM-riawZ31I
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I doubled my money when I sold my 5.45 stash. Should have kept it.
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Tim at MAC chims in and attempts to inject a bit of sanity into all of this
Russian ammo gone? WAIT! Don't sell those AK's just yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM-riawZ31I
Pretty much the same thing I’ve been saying. Suddenly I’ve been seeing a lot of Russian Ammo advertised/promoted. Almost all is the typical 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 7.62x54R, etc. While I do own firearms in these calibers I don’t often shoot them and there are other sources. I really don’t see this affecting overmuch 9mm, 5.56, 45ACP what have you that much. At the same time American, other European and Asian companies are still ramping up production of most calibers.
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I really don’t see this affecting overmuch 9mm, 5.56, 45ACP what have you that much. At the same time American, other European and Asian companies are still ramping up production of most calibers.
A whole lot of 9mm, 5.56, and 45acp are cheap, steel case, Russian ammo. The people who bought it will either need to shoot less, buy more of other ammo, or a combination of the two.
That will push demand of remaining stock and push prices up.
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Yeah.
This is going to jack up the price of all ammo, even calibers the Russians don't make. =(
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Seeing ads for "Pre-Ban" ammo ;/
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https://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-ammo-sale/1000-round-case-wolf-762x39-122-grain-fmj-ammo-made-ucw-russia
SGAmmo has some Wolf for a not aweful price for the present market.
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Funny how they added "Russian" and "from Russia" to all of their Russian made ammo. Pretty sure that didn't use to be something they pushed.
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Fiocchi has always been a big name out of Italy.
Fiocchi has a plant in Missouri, and they're building another in Arkansas.
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Fiocchi has a plant in Missouri, and they're building another in Arkansas.
What's with Arkansas and ammo makers? That state seems to be the go-to state for new ammo plants these days.
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What's with Arkansas and ammo makers? That state seems to be the go-to state for new ammo plants these days.
The Clintons go through a lot of ammo
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It's the taxes.
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The Clintons go through a lot of ammo
:rofl:
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What's with Arkansas and ammo makers? That state seems to be the go-to state for new ammo plants these days.
I would guess taxes, cost of labor, availability of skilled/trainable labor, access to transportation hubs (rail and interstate highways), available land, environmental laws, etc.
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Most of the hiways suck but taxes are cheap, there is no state tax and labor is cheap. That's why most of the bass boat/runabout companies are down there also.
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I'm expecting Russian compies to move to China, Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan soon.
The market is too big, not to move the factories.
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When was the last time you saw new manufactured Chinese ammo for sale?
Anyhow, I doubt they will build international infrastructure based on the US ammo market. Maybe private label ammo from existing factories, but when Biden has shown he will randomly ban imports why would they take the risk of building factories elsewhere?
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I think we are more likely to see expanded production from other countries.
I noticed the Tula ammo is the same price as the boxer primed brass cased Belom ammo from Serbia. I wonder how long that will last. I got some Belom. I will try to see how accurate it is. Their 9mm stuff shoots well. Links says Belom is the military side of the PPU company.
https://gunzonedeals.com/product/tula-7.62x39-122gr-fmj-1000-rd-case
https://gunzonedeals.com/product/belom-7.62x39-123-gr-fmj-brass-case-ammo-for-sale-at-gun-zone
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https://globalordnance.com/belom-brass-case-7-62x39-123-grain-fmj-480-round-case/?goal=0_d681a66255-3d17548d2e-79995492&mc_cid=3d17548d2e&mc_eid=d6dc408f02
https://globalordnance.com/belom-50rd-box-9x19mm-124-grain-1000rd-case/?goal=0_d681a66255-3d17548d2e-79995492&mc_cid=3d17548d2e&mc_eid=d6dc408f02
A week later and the brass 7.62 ammo goes up a bit. The 9mm goes down some.
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Does anyone have firsthand knowledge about the accuracy of the Belom 7.62x39?
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I shot a few rounds last week. Might have been the gun, but it shot about the same as the Tula I was shooting. 2 to 3 MOA if I remember right. Out of a 14.5" barrel. I have a AR style gun in that caliber. I guess I need to try it in that. It was the 1st 20 round box I opened so I expect to shoot more at some point.
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Thought something was fishy about that 40% figure floating around.
In a fact sheet published by the SAAF, they estimate that 765,487,845 shells, cartridges, or parts thereof, came in from Russia in 2020. Going off their estimate of about 11.8 billion rounds manufactured or imported in 2018, Russian ammo accounts for between roughly 4.5% and 6.5% of all ammunition on the domestic market.
Not an insignificant percentage by any means, but certainly less than the 40% estimates I’ve seen floating around. The percentage that Russian ammo imports make up of certain calibers, such as 7.62×39, 5.45×39, 9×18, or 7.62×54R, is almost certainly much higher, and may very well be 40%.
Russian Ammo Ban – Numbers and the Coming Years
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/09/08/russian-ammo-ban-numbers/
The big problem is going to be 5.45 and to a lesser extent 7.62x54R, 9x18 & 7.62x39
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I think that 40% came from what has been available the last year and a half.
A friend of mine was going to a gun store a lot last year and all he saw was steel cased import ammo.
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By all reports 9x39 is just going to flat out gone. Shame too as it was just starting to gain a little bit of traction here.
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By all reports 9x39 is just going to flat out gone. Shame too as it was just starting to gain a little bit of traction here.
Well that's a good reason to have a press and a lead pot. Primers are still a bit high and hard to find.
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So about a month after this thread started.
As of this moment. TulAmmo for about .42 a round.
https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/2959-tulammo-9mm-115-gr-fmj.html
PMC - .50 per round.
https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/501-pmc-9mm-124-grain-fmj.html
I can't shoot Tulammo at most of the ranges I have a membership at or that are close to me, they all have bans on bit-metal jackets which is how most 'Russian' ammo is made. The price isn't that much different considering I can rarely even use one of them. Both prices have dropped considerably in the last couple months. I've seen a great influx of actual 'Russian' ammo recently. I've also seen the price of all non 'Russian' ammo drop in price.
I'm still not convinced Russian ammo ban will keep prices overall inflated. I think a lot of people can't really use it at a lot the ranges they shoot at. It might be stock piled, but the average use isn't there and other ammo producers have come online, or increased production.
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I think the difference may be that the price won't drop back to pre-Covid levels. Good to see things stabilize a bit. I want to eventually stock up a little more on 7.62x39, but not right away.
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Kind of a Wolf ammo side note but yesterday I found out Wolf (steel) 223 shots 4 inches lower at 100yds than Federal 5.56 out of a AR-180b. I was expecting a difference but not that big of a different but the holes don't lie.
Also of note is what happens if shot out of an AR with a brake with a wall next me to the right.
With Wolf hardy noticed any blast reflection off the wall, with M193 it was like someone hit me in the side of my head.
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Ever run them over a chronograph?
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Ever run them over a chronograph?
Nope, don't have one.
Another thing about Wolf is that in rifles tuned for mil-spec ammo the bolt may not reliably lock back when the mag is run dry.
Have always known it was weaker just not 4 inches low at 100 weaker.
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Wolf always had a different point of impact for me. For practice/range fodder, it still works well enough. However I haven't bought steel case in years. Up until recently, the price difference between brass and steel case was pretty small and not worth it.
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Someone tell Joe Biden that every round of Russian ammo we buy is another round they can't shoot at Ukrainians - and since the Russians sell us their ammo at a loss, the more we buy the faster they'll go bankrupt. >:D
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So about a month after this thread started.
As of this moment. TulAmmo for about .42 a round.
I stopped by the farm store on the way to the club to shoot, a week or 3 ago. Decided to go cheap, save a buck/box, and bought some Tula. 9mm and .38 Special.
It was awful stuff. I never had problems with cheap Russian ammo before.
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In the comments to a MAC video
According to my sources, the last shipments of Russian ammo have been cleared by Customs this week.
Russian Import Ban - 5.45x39 AK's about to fizzle and 5.56 about to take off?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzCUdSy7nTw