Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on October 02, 2021, 09:01:39 AM
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I'm still in the search for a semi-auto defensive shotgun. I had really been leaning to the M4, bought have been reading and viewing a lot of really good reviews on the Beretta 1301. Does anyone here have experience shooting the 1301? I have shot the M4, but have no hands on experience with the 1301.
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The Beretta is amazing. I’ve shot the full on tactical one, my sister is issued one for work. What a beast of a shotgun. She loves it and I want one bad.
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Good to hear. I see Langdon Tactical does what I consider a pretty reasonably priced version of the 1301. The standard 1301 seems to also be reasonably priced as compared to the M4. Also, fully two pounds lighter - that's pretty amazing.
I also see there don't seem to be any pistol grip or Skeltonized collapsible stock versions, at least through Beretta. That's not either a pro or con for me. My current defensive shotgun is a Mossberg 500 with the stock stock, so that's what I'm accustomed to anyway.
I'm not sure if getting the Beretta would require the wearing of short shorts though. That could be a con. :laugh:
https://youtu.be/RI9wCsFKW9E?t=46
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I'm seeing a number of different pistol grip stocks for the Beretta, or are you talking true pistol grip shorty configuration?
I, too, would be more interested if they had a folder stock.
Holy hell, the Benelli is up to almost $2,000. No freaking way.
If I were in the market for a tactical semi-auto I'd give the Beretta a try without compunction.
As it is, I'm a pump shotgun guy for serious social work.
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I'm seeing a number of different pistol grip stocks for the Beretta, or are you talking true pistol grip shorty configuration?
I, too, would be more interested if they had a folder stock.
Holy hell, the Benelli is up to almost $2,000. No freaking way.
If I were in the market for a tactical semi-auto I'd give the Beretta a try without compunction.
As it is, I'm a pump shotgun guy for serious social work.
Yeah, as I've watched more videos, I'm seeing the aftermarket stocks. It's just Beretta that's not making them. A negative I've seen is that there are nowhere near the amount of quality aftermarket accessories for the Beretta that there are for the M4. Though the ones I'm seeing available are add-ons that make sense, versus being tacticool doodads.
And yeah, the Beretta's price for what appears to be quality equal to the M4 is very appealing. Paying $800 more only to say I have the one the Marines use is not high on my list. I really liked shooting the M4, but don't like paying for "cool reputation".
The pump has always been my defensive shotgun, but after shooting the M4, I really saw the advantages of a well-designed and well-made semi-auto defensive shotgun.
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Speaking of stocks and veering my own thread, I saw this Magpul stock on the Lucky Gunner video review of the Beretta:
https://magpul.com/firearm-accessories/stocks/shotgun/sga-stock-remington-870.html?mp_global_color=118
People seem to rave about them, and it is a functional looking design with the grip being something of a standard/pistol grip hybrid. They only make them for the Rem 870 and Mossberg 500, but there is an adapter to use it on the 1301. I have a pistol grip (I forget who makes it) on my 870, but prefer to use my Mossberg 500 with a standard stock (also for some left-hand beneficial advantages to the 500).
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I actually don’t own a semi shotgun. I’ve looked at the M4 before, but never pulled the trigger due to price. You may have already seen this video, but it has me looking at the 1301.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RI9wCsFKW9E
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I actually don’t own a semi shotgun. I’ve looked at the M4 before, but never pulled the trigger due to price. You may have already seen this video, but it has me looking at the 1301.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RI9wCsFKW9E
Yes, hence my "short shorts" comment above. :laugh:
He made some good points though, and also referred to this Lucky Gunner video:
https://youtu.be/y2hbmGIyZ2c
I've been doing a whole lot of research today, and I think my mind is made up for the 1301. While it appears to have a bit more recoil with hot loads than the M4 (one of the things I loved about the M4 was how soft the recoil was), the 1301 seems to be more reliable with a more varied range of ammo, including light loads. Not that the M4 is unreliable. From the review videos, it was maybe one or two malfunctions with Walmart dove loads, none with combat loads, and the light load malfunctions went away after several hundred rounds. I'm not at all recoil sensitive, so I'm not worried about any slight increase in perceived recoil on the 1301. It's still gonna be less severe than recoil on my pump guns.
Both shotguns are the only semi-autos I would consider for a defensive shotgun, but the Beretta is just giving more bang for the buck. They are scarce as hens teeth right now though. I put in "notify" emails to Sportsman's Warehouse. I'm still checking online.
Langdon Tactical has their version in stock for $1600. That's actually pretty reasonable if you add up doing the same upgrades yourself. You're not saving a whole lot of money over their ready made upgrade, at least if you want the same stuff theirs comes with. I'm seeing the base model 1301 tactical for $1100, and one of the colored (OD or FDE) ones for around $1250.
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The geometry on that stock looks as if it would really increase felt recoil and, potentially, muzzle rise during recoil.
I'd want to try a shotgun so equipped before I invested in one.
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https://aimsurplus.com/sds-imports-tac-12-semi-auto-18-5in-12ga-shotgun/
Military Arms Channel posted a picture of an turkish made clone of the military shotgun. It sounded like he will be doing a review soon on it. The one he pictured had a full length tube and adjustable stock.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CUVxTm7rf7x/
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I'm a Benelli fanboi and I've owned a interia operated Beretta before my SBE.
Beretta and Benelli are made by the same company, so buy what fits/feels better to you.
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https://aimsurplus.com/sds-imports-tac-12-semi-auto-18-5in-12ga-shotgun/
Military Arms Channel posted a picture of an turkish made clone of the military shotgun. It sounded like he will be doing a review soon on it. The one he pictured had a full length tube and adjustable stock.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CUVxTm7rf7x/
This may have been posted elsewhere on the forum, but ...
TFB TV did a couple of vids in a similar vein: customizing a Black Aces semiauto shotgun and testing it on the range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9811GuLaCIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZi3rDHYJEU
TL;DR don't bother with the Turkish imports. Get a Beretta or Benelli and call it done.
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https://stdgun.com/toros-coppola-t4-12ga-shotgun-black/?utm_source=Standard+Mfg.+Co.+Newsletter&utm_campaign=f3f0a9e03f-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2021_09_24_04_46_COPY_09&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8f9ecb6acc-f3f0a9e03f-198727045&mc_cid=f3f0a9e03f&mc_eid=2db7shirt.
I got an email from Standard Manufacturing and it looks like they are selling an M4 clone. The description even says it has complete component interchangeability with the USMC M4 shotgun.
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This may have been posted elsewhere on the forum, but ...
TFB TV did a couple of vids in a similar vein: customizing a Black Aces semiauto shotgun and testing it on the range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9811GuLaCIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZi3rDHYJEU
TL;DR don't bother with the Turkish imports. Get a Beretta or Benelli and call it done.
I would prefer to buy the real M4 if the prices were not sky high.
There are Turkish gun makers that can do good work. CZ shotguns are made in Turkey. The SDS imports GI 1911 is supposed to be pretty good. The HK MP5 clones they make are supposed to be okay. I think it greatly depends on what the importer orders and what QA/QC is done.
I am not in the market for one right now anyway. I have plenty of time to wait and see what some of these reviews say. Since the M4 patent has run out, there isn't anything stopping someone from making an exact copy.
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I can't find anyone with a Beretta 1301 in stock right now.
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For anyone who would consider a Benelli M2 Tactical instead of an M4:
https://www.eurooptic.com/benelli-m2-tactical-black-synthetic-tactical-stock-ghost-ring-sight-185.aspx
$1169 once you add it to your cart.
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For anyone who would consider a Benelli M2 Tactical instead of an M4:
https://www.eurooptic.com/benelli-m2-tactical-black-synthetic-tactical-stock-ghost-ring-sight-185.aspx
$1169 once you add it to your cart.
Wow. I've never seen them that cheap.
EDIT: Uh, comprehension is key for reading. I thought you were posting an M4 price. :laugh:
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Same place has the M4 on sale for $1,800, and they cover the sales tax.
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If I went M4, I'd probably go stinkin' Cabelas. They have it for $1800 as well, but I've got around $500 in Cabelas bucks right now. I really want that 1301 though.
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I’ve shot a 1301 (just a few shots on clays). The Benelli is great and super reliable but the beretta would be my first choice.
I’ve got a few thousand rounds on my 390 Sport and the reliability is excellent and recoil is nothing. I can shoot 100 rounds at sporting clays and have no tenderness at all. I really want a 20g also.
Gun prices are way up on most models. My used 390 would bring almost 2x what I paid for it new. The quality guns are hot. 1980s Citoris, beretta O/Us, even older 1100s,1187s are bringing record high prices. Anything tacticool and quality you should just buy it if you can find it.
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I’ve shot a 1301 (just a few shots on clays). The Benelli is great and super reliable but the beretta would be my first choice.
I’ve got a few thousand rounds on my 390 Sport and the reliability is excellent and recoil is nothing. I can shoot 100 rounds at sporting clays and have no tenderness at all. I really want a 20g also.
Gun prices are way up on most models. My used 390 would bring almost 2x what I paid for it new. The quality guns are hot. 1980s Citoris, beretta O/Us, even older 1100s,1187s are bringing record high prices. Anything tacticool and quality you should just buy it if you can find it.
I have the less expensive 3901 and feel the same way, it's a joy to shoot.
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I've fired an M4 a couple times. I own an HK marked Benelli M3 that I got in the late 90's. Both are good shotguns, and the gas system on the M4 is a nice reliability upgrade, but honestly, I don't think they are worth what Benelli asks for them. JMO.
The M4, if it sold for what an M2 does, might be reasonable.
Your still paying over a grand for a low capacity long gun with slow follow up shots.
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Your still paying over a grand for a low capacity long gun with slow follow up shots.
Yeah, but have you seen what Garand Thumb does to ballistic gel skulls with one? :laugh:
On the serious side, I will grant you that a carbine in trained hands is superior most of the time for defense, but a combat shotgun is still effective, and I've just always wanted a good semi-auto one.
One place where a shotgun seems to be devastating compared to even 30.06 AP is body armor. When I watch the test videos, even if it doesn't penetrate, I'm pretty sure a rifled slug will stop, if not kill a guy in level IV. Some of that armor gets bent to a 45 deg angle from a single shot. That's not gonna be pleasant for the old chest cavity.
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True, and I have somehow collected......7? (How the F did I end up 7 shotguns?) I just find myself underwhelmed by the expensive "combat" shotguns. My Black Aces bullpup is the most fun to run on a range, but I'm not sure I'd trust it for combat.
What's a SPAS-12 go for these days? Those were always cool.
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Well, Sportsmans Warehouse just had the 1301 show up on the website, but in FDE. The colored ones are $100 more than black, and if I had a choice in color, I'd probably go with the OD one. However, maybe beggars can't be choosers and I should order the FDE one while it's in stock.
I used to really like the FDE in guns, and have a few, but IMO, it's getting overdone to the point where FDE is the pumpkin spice of the gun world.
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Rattle can it.
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Dammit. Put it in my cart, and by the time I filled out the payment info and hit "buy" I got the message "An item in your cart is no longer available." Bastards.
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WTF is FDE?
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WTF is FDE?
Glad I'm not the only one scratching my head.
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Flat Dark Earth - what all the tacticool kids use.
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Flat Dark Earth - what all the tacticool kids use.
That's too frightening to the guns are scary crowd.
I suggest getting the My Little Pony paint scheme model.
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That's too frightening to the guns are scary crowd.
I suggest getting the My Little Pony paint scheme model.
With "I Love You" written on the shotgun shells.
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With "I Love You" written on the shotgun shells.
Nice touch, but I'd write "I love you THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS much!" on them.
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Ha! The LE tactical version of the 1301 popped up on my LGS's website this morning. They had one each of the pistol grip and standard stocks. I hadn't seen that version pistol grip before and would have liked to handle it, but I didn't want to take a chance on snooze and lose, so I just bought the standard stock online and will go pick it up later today. If they still have the PG stock one, I'll check it out in-store and maybe switch.
This works out well, because I would have bought the mag extension anyway, so getting it already installed is a perk.
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So what was the base price for it?
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and if I had a choice in color, I'd probably go with the OD one.
where FDE is the pumpkin spice of the gun world.
Olive drab for the win. FDE doesn't work too well in the USA.
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I know this is a tactical thread but it really makes me want to grab my Berretta and go bust some clays.
Congrats on the new shotgun!
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So what was the base price for it?
$1300 with the tacticool accoutrements.
I didn't even think to ask my LGS when I started looking. Back when I was still leaning towards the M4 I had asked them about one and they said they don't carry them because Benelli makes them carry the crap lines if they carry the good stuff. I had assumed that since Beretta and Benelli were intermingled these days that the same applied to the Beretta.
It was a total fluke that I happened to bring up their website today. They had been using fakebook for promoting the store and only recently got around to getting their website going, so it's still pretty sparse and I don't visit it much.
Oh, and this one is basic black, so I didn't have to make a color choice. =D
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That sounds like a good price considering what I’m seeing lately. Anything available is bringing high prices.
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If I had a better place to run a shotgun through its paces with buck and the like I'd really consider getting one to retire my S&W 3000 as my house gun.
It's been very reliable and durable over the years, and it's a pump, which I really prefer, but if something breaks in it it's going to be virtually impossible to repair.
And besides, even with the recoil pad, that S&W is a beast to shoot with S&B 12-pellet 00 buckshot loads. Eyewatering, in fact.
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That's too frightening to the guns are scary crowd.
I suggest getting the My Little Pony paint scheme model.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51639394084_24eeb91285_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mFcoLL)
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I am happy. Buying a gun sight unseen, only based on research, is not my favorite way to get a gun, but this is nice. Just naturally pointing for me, and the lightness you have to feel to believe.
My LGS did still have the pistol grip version in stock, and I handled it. While nice, I still stuck with the standard stock, and if the mood strikes me down the road, I'll play with a PG stock.
I am curious how I managed to get this gun with the extended mag. I asked the guy I deal with at the LGS, and he didn't know. It all looks to be in-house Beretta, but from my understanding, the reason people do the aftermarket extended mag is because of the whole "foreign manufacture" thing limiting the mags to five rounds. I wonder if they have some shipped to a Beretta shop here in the states where Beretta modifies them and then they are okay to sell to non-LE?
They actually also had an OD 1301 (5 round mag) that was not on the website on the wall for $1250. For the extra $50 though, black and extended mag was the better deal for me. The OD looked really nice though. These all came into my LGS yesterday. They said they had been waiting for months, and suddenly a batch became available via their distributor.
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Okay, crap. One mistake I made is I should have gotten the one with the PG stock after all because it's a Mesa Tactical stock that goes for $170 on its own. The PG Beretta was only $40 more than mine. I'm sure I could get a standard Beretta stock for WAY cheaper than the Mesa Tactical stock. Oh well.
https://www.mesatactical.com/products/urbino-pistol-grip-stock-for-beretta-1301-riser-limbsaver-12-ga-black.html
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https://gunzonedeals.com/product/beretta-1301-tactical-12ga.-3-24vr-ct-1-black-matte-synth
Got an email with this link today. Not sure how it compares with what you got. 1301 model.
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https://gunzonedeals.com/product/beretta-1301-tactical-12ga.-3-24vr-ct-1-black-matte-synth
Got an email with this link today. Not sure how it compares with what you got. 1301 model.
Looks like the same one.
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https://tombstonetactical.com/product/m4-tactical-shotgun-black-synhetic-h2o-cerakote-tactical-stock-ghost-ring-12ga-18-5in?utm_campaign=11321&utm_content=touchpoint_1_no_layaway_template_standard&utm_medium=email&utm_source=zaius#product_detail
For comparrison: Benelli M4 Tactical Shotgun Black Synhetic H2O Cerakote
Email said $1799. Website says $2000 when I went to the link. I don't want to spend $2000 right now, but it is a good looking shotgun. I do have to admit that if I were to pick one, the version used by the military is what I would want.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7IcIpxFaLU
This may have been posted earlier. Decent comparison.
For home defense, I have always planned to use the least expensive gun that I could depend on since it was often left outside the safe. A $2000 shotgun would be more expensive than most of my rifles. And for the low round count I will actually shoot, I don't know if the cost it worth it from a usefulness perspective. The gun collector side says 'buy it'.
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I am happy with my two Ithaca Model 37's, made in the 80's, but every now and again, I look at the military Mossberg 590A1 and sigh.
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I'd love to have an Ithaca Model 37 Cruiser, the old style with the corn cob forearm, but holy sweet mother of Dog they kick 10 times worse than my S&W with buckshot!
I have my Dad's Model 37 that he bought in the 1950s. It's a 12, and I've been looking for one in 20 for some years now.
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I'd love to have an Ithaca Model 37 Cruiser, the old style with the corn cob forearm, but holy sweet mother of Dog they kick 10 times worse than my S&W with buckshot!
I have my Dad's Model 37 that he bought in the 1950s. It's a 12, and I've been looking for one in 20 for some years now.
My Model 37s are old enough such that you can hold the trigger down and it will fire with every pump of the action. I did that a few times when I was channeling my inner mall ninja, and it cured me of doing it as a routine practice.
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yep, my Dad's is that way.
SLAMFIRE!