Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: RoadKingLarry on January 23, 2022, 01:07:37 PM
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Saw this on Lehto's Law youtube channel. I think the results of this could be very important.
Summary:
A group of "at will" employees working for employer A seek better jobs with employer B, not "poached", not recruited, applied for open positions.
Employees are extended job offers by employer B and offer current employer (A) opportunity to match offer.
Employer A declines to make offer and employees tender notice and prepare to go to work for employer B.
Employer A sues to get temporary injunction against employees from going to new job. Judge grants temporary injunction.
Who owns your labor? No contracts involved in this case. I really hope the judge tells employee A to suck it but in this day and age I'm doubtful of the right outcome.
Does it matter or should it matter that employer A is a hospital?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE5mV5V-pHs
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I don't care how much smoke ThedaCare is blowing up the Judge's ass IMO the ONLY reason they asked for the injunction (and received it) was it put their accreditation as a level 2 trauma Center at risk and would have affected their standing as a Primary Stroke Center. That would have caused a possible loss of revenue to ThedaCare.
If they want to remain a viable player in the local healthcare they need to pay their staff a little more. I guarantee this action by them will make a lot of front line care staff think about moving on.
https://www.wbay.com/2022/01/20/thedacare-seeks-court-order-against-ascension-wisconsin-worker-dispute/?fbclid=IwAR3fP8Rz9FY8BLrEJ3GIQnbMMT8_DemPuuSiTDMFfdaOhY8B9LjmbO3JEGw
bob
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Great clarification, thanks BobR!
Either way it looks to me like Thedacare is going to, and should, eat a crap sandwich with this one.
If I was one of the employees there is no way in hell I would continue to work for the old boss under any circumstances.
I would love to see the affected workers out in front of the hospital protesting with signs telling the community that the hospital won't let them quit to get a better job and include some 13th amendment stuff.
To me this is coming down to the if "Healthcare is a Right" who owns the rights to the labor of the healthcare providers?
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In the absence of a valid contract, this sounds a lot like involuntary servitude.
Workers should ignore the judge.
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Either way it looks to me like Thedacare is going to, and should, eat a crap sandwich with this one.
To me this is coming down to the if "Healthcare is a Right" who owns the rights to the labor of the healthcare providers?
A BIG crap sandwich.
I worked for a hospital in Spokane and they were having financial difficulties. Their solution to the crisis was to institute a 9% pay cut across the board, or so they said. I know everyone below the level of Hospital Administrator who was involved in direct patient care took a hit. They set a date it would take effect so I went per diem and then quit and took all of my accumulated PTO at the pre pay cut levels and went traveling. They lost quite a few people and later that year was sold to another group. One of the first things they did was shed their Level 2 trauma designation. It takes money to maintain those levels, especially at level 2 and level 1.
It is just crazy that they can't quit your job but I guarantee they will have no problem firing them once this blows over. I hope the community gets behind the staff and holds the hospital responsible by voting with their feet and going to the other hospital.
bob
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The injunction seems to be against the new employer, not the workers. Which is extra crappy, since they just can't have their new jobs.
If the new employer wanted to win some PR and loyalty they would hire the team as they wanted to, and just comply with this part:
Make available to ThedaCare one invasive radiology technician and one registered nurse of the individuals resigning their employment with ThedaCare to join Ascension, with their support to include on-call responsibilities
Have them wear their new uniforms in the old hospital till the lawsuit is settled. Expensive, but you can't buy that PR.
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Summary:
A group of "at will" employees working for employer A seek better jobs with employer B, not "poached", not recruited, applied for open positions.
Employees are extended job offers by employer B and offer current employer (A) opportunity to match offer.
Employer A declines to make offer and employees tender notice and prepare to go to work for employer B.
Employer A sues to get temporary injunction against employees from going to new job. Judge grants temporary injunction.
Who owns your labor? No contracts involved in this case. I really hope the judge tells employee A to suck it but in this day and age I'm doubtful of the right outcome.
IMHO the judge should be removed from office.
Does it matter or should it matter that employer A is a hospital?
Not to me, it doesn't.
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IMHO the judge should be removed from office.
Not to me, it doesn't.
I got the impression that Lehto thought the judge would life the injection after the hearing on Monday. I guess we will see tomorrow.
I do think the injunction should have been denied in the first place.
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This is a sure fire way to turn a group of people who would normally give a professional two week notice into people who give two-day notices, as in “I quit this bitch today”
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https://wtaq.com/2022/01/24/judge-lifts-restraining-order-former-thedacare-employees-can-begin-work-with-ascension/
https://www.wbay.com/2022/01/24/employees-expected-testify-hearing-dispute-between-thedacare-ascension/
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Pleasantly surprised that the TRO was vacated. Still annoyed that it was issued in the first place.
Apparently Thedacare is still sueing Ascension for "poaching" their employees. According to Lehto "poaching" isn't illegal.
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Pleasantly surprised that the TRO was vacated. Still annoyed that it was issued in the first place.
Apparently Thedacare is still sueing Ascension for "poaching" their employees. According to Lehto "poaching" isn't illegal.
I don't know the law in that state, but I bet it would be illegal for them to have an arrangement to prevent poaching.
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https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/22906266/thedacare-ascension-lawsuit-covid-nurses-shortage
The local paper did an article recently on how many of the staff nurses at the local hospital have left to become travelers, and are making three times their former wages.
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https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/22906266/thedacare-ascension-lawsuit-covid-nurses-shortage
The local paper did an article recently on how many of the staff nurses at the local hospital have left to become travelers, and are making three times their former wages.
Maybe we are going to enter an era where the folks at the top are going to accept less personal profit, pay upper and middle management less, and pay the rank-and-file employees more (plus benefits) so there will still reliable workers to keep the income coming in. They are also going to have to deal with prices for goods and services, because the consumer has learned to shop elsewhere for a better price. Rents and sale prices for commercial/industrial properties may also flatten out or drop because you can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
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No, they are going to get Fed.gov to force the workers to work at their pre-scarcity wages.
https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2022-01-25-white-house-urged-investigate-price-gouging-nurse-staffing-agencies
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Friend at IBM sent me this. I'm having a terrible time trying to attach the image; let's see if it works this time
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Maybe we are going to enter an era where the folks at the top are going to accept less personal profit, pay upper and middle management less, and pay the rank-and-file employees more (plus benefits) so there will still reliable workers to keep the income coming in. They are also going to have to deal with prices for goods and services, because the consumer has learned to shop elsewhere for a better price. Rents and sale prices for commercial/industrial properties may also flatten out or drop because you can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
IMO, skilled hourly employees haven't been treated all that well over the last 20 or 25 years. All the public pressure has been focused on minimum wage.
IMO, there are a lot of skilled managers/middle managers who are good at planning ahead and helping their company. There are also plenty that seems to accomplish nothing except check a box to show the company is working on some initiative. If there is more pressure to clean that stuff up, probably a good thing. However, with govt regulations likely to keep increasing, I am not sure how much overhead employers can eliminate.
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. . . , I am not sure how much overhead employers can eliminate.
Start by getting rid of anyone who has diversity, equity, or inclusion in their job description or (especially!) their job title.
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Maybe we are going to enter an era where the folks at the top are going to accept less personal profit, pay upper and middle management less, and pay the rank-and-file employees more (plus benefits) so there will still reliable workers to keep the income coming in. They are also going to have to deal with prices for goods and services, because the consumer has learned to shop elsewhere for a better price. Rents and sale prices for commercial/industrial properties may also flatten out or drop because you can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
???
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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As I understand it most of the bloat in medical and education costs are due to administrative overhead where-as actual doctor and teacher pay has remained comparable accounting for inflation.
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It's what the market will bear. However, with the market becoming more and more unbearable, who knows where we will find things this next year or two ... [popcorn]
Woody
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Start by getting rid of anyone who has diversity, equity, or inclusion in their job description or (especially!) their job title.
I wasn't thinking about that sort of box checking, but corporate departments that have a purpose, but few notice if they are doing anything unless they really did it badly. As long as the generate good reports so their bosses think they are doing okay, they survive.
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
???
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
There has been warning signs about future labor shortages and low wages for skilled/educated talent for at least 25 years. When I graduated from High School in the early 90s, everyone did what they could to push everyone away from the trades and go get a 4-year degree, about the time I graduated the baby boomers were just starting to retire and the kvetching began about not finding enough skilled people to replace them. As the remainder if the Boomers retire in the next 5-10 years, something has to happen. You can't replace 40-45 years of experience by paying *expletive deleted*it wages and expecting folks to stick around and learn the trade.