Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on February 12, 2022, 11:17:02 AM
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So this guy popped up on my recommendations as I was surfing youtube gun videos. I've never heard of him before, but he seems to have the operator creds. I'm not qualified to judge, but he seems a little over the top to me. One thing he does is wear some kind of rag tucked through his belt. I can't figure out if it's some shtick or if it's some thing that some trigger pullers do (whether just to be cool or a ritual or something else) that I've never heard of. Anyone know?
https://youtu.be/fZ_w0HHbchY?t=138
Edit: While I still don't know the rag story, I have been watching more of his training videos and while his persona seems over the top in some things, he seems to actually have a good teaching style. I kinda like this one on the "head turn after the shot" (which is what a couple of pistol instructors I have had really emphasized to the point of, as he says here, theatrics):
https://youtu.be/wzwVXA9J620
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I agree with the last on the theatrics. I haven't seen that myself, but if you are going to "train like you fight", I would think mixing things up with a varying number of shots at least would help avoid learning a bad habit.
It also seems to me that scanning the area should also not be done with your feet planted in one place. I heard one guy talking about a class where they were taught to draw and shoot then move to the right or left (even if just one step) before shooting again to get in the habit of shooting and moving.
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I don't know about the rag. I like to keep cheap towels in my truck that I often use while shooting, but I don't strap it on. Or maybe he uses a lot of oil on his guns and wipes off excess while shooting.
Maybe he had an accident and wanted to hide it from view. =D
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It also seems to me that scanning the area should also not be done with your feet planted in one place. I heard one guy talking about a class where they were taught to draw and shoot then move to the right or left (even if just one step) before shooting again to get in the habit of shooting and moving.
Agree. The other thing about the after shot scan is that it can simply be something you do almost compulsively but with no purpose, like Sheldon knocking three times.
They taught it in my very first defensive pistol class, and even when fresh, it easily becomes something you "just do" without actually paying attention. Towards the end of that class, the instructors separated us out, calling one shooter at a time to do a drill. None of us knew what the drill was. When it got to be my turn, the instructor said to simply engage all three targets in front of me. I did, then pulled my pistol back and did the scan. Then the instructor asked me how many fingers he was holding up when I scanned. I had no idea.
When the whole thing was done, it turned out at least 70% of the class couldn't tell him, and that was with that training just a day old. We had immediately gone to scanning just to scan. It's not like he was being tricky either. His hand was over his chest with the fingers out, but none of us paid attention.
I'm guessing that being more active, like the post drill positional move you mentioned, or what McNamara mentions, might help a shooter stay more engaged and focused. I will say that getting called out on the fail made that stick out in my head in later trainings. I'm still not sure of its value when it is taught in the standard way.
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I keep a (smaller) microfiber towel in a similar spot when out running and gunning. I use it to wipe my hands if they get wet or sweaty, clean eyepro, clean optics if it's raining or dusty, stuff like that.
In the sandbox I kept it in a side pouch on my IBA's cummerbund so it wouldn't flop around.
A airforce TACP I train with also keeps one clipped roughly in the same spot.
Sometimes it's hand to be able to wipe stuff off.
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That is Pat Mac. Yes, he is intense and a bit over the top, but that is his real personality. He does have the operator street cred., if that matters to you.
I think the rag is just for him to wipe his sweaty hands on.
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I keep a (smaller) microfiber towel in a similar spot when out running and gunning. I use it to wipe my hands if they get wet or sweaty, clean eyepro, clean optics if it's raining or dusty, stuff like that.
In the sandbox I kept it in a side pouch on my IBA's cummerbund so it wouldn't flop around.
A airforce TACP I train with also keeps one clipped roughly in the same spot.
Sometimes it's hand to be able to wipe stuff off.
Okay, that makes sense. Though he seems to wear it to hardware store runs too. :laugh:
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He does have the operator street cred., if that matters to you.
Only in so much as in teaching skills, they are skills that he himself might have used and in so much as the training is to get me out of, not into, trouble. Which having watched more of his videos, seems like something Pat does.
I don't judge trainers as "He must be good, he was a SEEL!" as much as I do that special forces training can perhaps be part of a good instructor's skillset. I remember some other videos youtube recommended that were a bunch of former special forces guys, I think mostly SEALs, that sat around every video talking about "this is what operators carry/do/whatever" as if you could only be good at self defense if you did the same thing they did and carried the same kit they did. They reminded me of the *expletive deleted*che star quarterback and his entourage in high school. They might have just been acting, but if they were, they were really good actors.
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When I was shooting benchrest, we would often have a "golf towel," but they were generally called "crying towels." Just because...
No pressure. Nope. None at all.
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FWIW I have had the opportunity in the last couple deployments to work with various tiers of SF.
This will shock everyone, I'm sure, but some of them are cool and some are aholes. Related, some are really really good with weapons, and some are just OK. Just like the rest of the .mil, SF are individuals, and should be looked at as such.
The teams guys that I have met IRL that are really good with guns all talk about seeking training and practice outside of the .mil standards.
Take that for what it's worth.
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My favorite crying towel is about 20 or so years old... No grommet or hook, but it has a nice patch sewn on it.
I had a nice black one that I got with a rest, but I have no idea what happened to it.
They help keep your elbow from getting bench abrasions.
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Man, was my initial impression on Pat McNamara just way, way, off.
https://youtu.be/hOliF5FoAA8
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Man, was my initial impression on Pat McNamara just way, way, off.
https://youtu.be/hOliF5FoAA8
Do you like him more now? Or less?
I've never had a class with him, mainly because of his methods and antics I saw on facebook/instagram/youtube. His style just doesn't work for me.
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I bailed on that video during the shaky cam warm up reel.
Did he do something silly later on?
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Do you like him more now? Or less?
I've never had a class with him, mainly because of his methods and antics I saw on facebook/instagram/youtube. His style just doesn't work for me.
Oh, much more because of that linked video. I agree that some of his own videos go over the top, but this video seemed to show the real man. I'm also seeing a difference between his class videos and the videos he records with that metal guy. He seems to get goofier when he talks with that guy.
You've taken way more classes than I have - what don't you like about his teaching style? I've been seeing what looks to me like good advice on things like running and gunning and having the stamina to do so. Or, for instance, the way he evaluates individual students with his "accuracy test" to find their starting and improvement points.
I'm sure his style isn't right for everyone, and maybe I wouldn't do well in one of his classes myself, but I think from what I have seen that he has teaching creds and I'm agreeing with a lot of his general (not just gun) philosophy.
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I bailed on that video during the shaky cam warm up reel.
Did he do something silly later on?
At 1:03 the sit-down interview starts and he gets serious.
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Oh, much more because of that linked video. I agree that some of his own videos go over the top, but this video seemed to show the real man. I'm also seeing a difference between his class videos and the videos he records with that metal guy. He seems to get goofier when he talks with that guy.
You've taken way more classes than I have - what don't you like about his teaching style? I've been seeing what looks to me like good advice on things like running and gunning and having the stamina to do so. Or, for instance, the way he evaluates individual students with his "accuracy test" to find their starting and improvement points.
I'm sure his style isn't right for everyone, and maybe I wouldn't do well in one of his classes myself, but I think from what I have seen that he has teaching creds and I'm agreeing with a lot of his general (not just gun) philosophy.
His intensity is too much for me. He comes across as too hardcore and gung ho about fitness and fighting. I prefer a more laid back approach. I'll never be as fit as he is, but I can be as good a a shooter.
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Agree. The other thing about the after shot scan is that it can simply be something you do almost compulsively but with no purpose, like Sheldon knocking three times.
They taught it in my very first defensive pistol class, and even when fresh, it easily becomes something you "just do" without actually paying attention. Towards the end of that class, the instructors separated us out, calling one shooter at a time to do a drill. None of us knew what the drill was. When it got to be my turn, the instructor said to simply engage all three targets in front of me. I did, then pulled my pistol back and did the scan. Then the instructor asked me how many fingers he was holding up when I scanned. I had no idea.
When the whole thing was done, it turned out at least 70% of the class couldn't tell him, and that was with that training just a day old. We had immediately gone to scanning just to scan. It's not like he was being tricky either. His hand was over his chest with the fingers out, but none of us paid attention.
I'm guessing that being more active, like the post drill positional move you mentioned, or what McNamara mentions, might help a shooter stay more engaged and focused. I will say that getting called out on the fail made that stick out in my head in later trainings. I'm still not sure of its value when it is taught in the standard way.
I am not sure really sure of the value of counting his fingers when scanning around. Might have been more appropriate if he held up a knife or weapon of some kind.
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I'll have to give the video another try.
I will say from that you can be a pretty damn good shooter without being overly fitness concerned. If you want to be a gunfighter, or just someone that survives them, fitness is pretty dang important.
It's something that I still have to work hard on in my journey.
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I am not sure really sure of the value of counting his fingers when scanning around. Might have been more appropriate if he held up a knife or weapon of some kind.
No Doubt. This was my very first class, and just a local trainer. I didn't know much about finding experienced trainers back then.
On the fitness, I think it does make a difference. I have gotten more into running or just doing jumping jacks when I shoot at my club (no matter how stupid I look), and it definitely affects how well I can shoot. I think that's important, because if I have to engage someone in public, I think there is a probability that I was trying to run away or run for cover first, and thus might be winded.
I think Pat is only like six years younger than me, and no, I won't ever be as fit as he is, but I find value in much of his physical training regime. There's certainly a bias there, because I have, previously to watching his videos, been doing more of that same kind of "whatever's available" fitness. For instance, if I'm out limbing trees or bucking logs, I might grab a handy tree limb and do a pull up, or do some overheads with a big log. Same with other chores around the house, and even the movements in my regular workout - I look to do exercises that help with strength for the kind of everyday movement I do, versus building gym muscles.
So yeah, I find values in his workout videos. I do wish he'd put on a tshirt and wear something other than Magnum PI swim trunks for workouts so I don't have to watch a practically naked man demonstrate the exercises though. =D
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IT'S A BLOOD RAG! FOR WIPING THE BLOOD OFF MY FACE WHEN I CAP SOME ahole WHO REALLY NEEDED CAPPING!
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The rag question answered. :laugh:
https://youtu.be/IJB5cuSH3Yo
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I thought maybe either his zipper was stuck or it was like that Hawaiian shirt thing.
Ben noed:
"On the fitness, I think it does make a difference. I have gotten more into running or just doing jumping jacks when I shoot at my club (no matter how stupid I look), and it definitely affects how well I can shoot."
While I was still mobile and agile I used to run in place a little bit before shooting just to partially simulate my physical state in a defense emergency, People thought I was boogeyshit nuts, so I stopped doing it unless
I was alone, Still, I'd catch range staff watching through the windows and grinning. Then I did it at home during dry firing practice, but stopped that because it would disturb the neighbors in the building.
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Last Saturday's run and gun we did a 20 min workout first. Workout was: 5 pull ups, jog 150M at your own pace, 10 kettle bell swings with 35lbs kettlebell, jog 150M back. That's one rep. Continue for 20 min continuously. After arm muscle failure we switched to just hanging from pullup bar. 5 sec hang=1 pull up.
Then 1st stage of shooting was running down a 100m range engaging pistol targets on the way down, then sprinting back to start. 5 person relay teams.
Then we switched to 120M rifle shots from the ports in a VTAC Barricade, while holding a 35 lbs plate in your offhand.
Last stage was 150M rifle shots from under obstacles. Targets were 8" gongs, and the 6" square plates of a dueling tree.
It is safe to say by that last stage my shooting was adversely affected by the physical activity. I wish more ranges let people really add stress to shooting. It's pretty eye opening. Hell just engaging targets with a pistol while moving forward at a slow jog is pretty difficult.
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^
I'm exhausted just reading that.
Maybe I could bring a copy of it to the range so I can just read it instead of actually exercising before I shoot.
Terry, 230RN
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:laugh:
The hardest part was doing all that, jumping around in the heat and such, then dropping prone, taking a deep breath or two, and squeezing a precision(ish) round off at the 5" dueling tree.
Then jumping up and running around again.
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I wonder if the police train in a similar way, since nowadays chasing and shooting at a fleeing suspect is almost banned and constitutes cruelty to animals to boot.