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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: gunsmith on May 02, 2022, 12:37:35 AM

Title: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on May 02, 2022, 12:37:35 AM
Currently the dates for releasing opinions are:

May 02, 16, 23, 31
June 06, 13, 21, 27


 this is supposed to be the big win we have been waiting for.
Gawd, I hope I will be able to visit my old stomping grounds and legally carry before I get way  older
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Boomhauer on May 02, 2022, 06:14:42 AM
Unfortunately even with a favorable decision all too many jurisdictions are comfortable with ignoring them and doing what they want in restricting freedoms.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on May 02, 2022, 07:40:45 AM
Unfortunately even with a favorable decision all too many jurisdictions are comfortable with ignoring them and doing what they want in restricting freedoms.

nyc for instance :'(
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on May 02, 2022, 08:46:03 AM
Unfortunately even with a favorable decision all too many jurisdictions are comfortable with ignoring them and doing what they want in restricting freedoms.
Not just jurisdictions, but lower level federal judges sometimes.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 02, 2022, 09:02:47 AM
nyc for instance :'(

Not just NYC -- federal circuit court justices. Look how many of them have taken Scalia's "presumptively lawful" phrase out of Heller to claim that the Supreme Court has ruled that all gun laws before Heller are lawful, so they don't have to look at them. That's not what it said, at all, but that's what they claim it said.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on May 02, 2022, 09:45:49 AM
Is this the same case?

https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/04/opinion-analysis-court-sends-new-york-second-amendment-case-back-to-lower-courts-without-ruling-on-the-merits/
Court sends New York Second Amendment case back to lower courts without ruling on the merits

Quote
The justices allowed the case to move forward, but today a majority of the court sent the case back to the lower court without weighing in on the merits of the gun owners’ Second Amendment claims. The court’s two-page opinion – which was unsigned but apparently joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Brett Kavanaugh – explained that, as a result of the changes to state law and the city’s rule, the gun owners have gotten exactly what they had asked for: They can now take their guns to a second home or a shooting range outside the city.
On this one, the liberals got the majority to run away from any meaningful decision again.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RocketMan on May 02, 2022, 10:14:57 AM
The date on that ruling is April of 2020, and it list RBG as one of the signatories.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 02, 2022, 10:22:54 AM
The date on that ruling is April of 2020, and it list RBG as one of the signatories.

The dead still vote democrat so why not SCOTUS justices? :rofl:
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on May 02, 2022, 10:32:54 AM
The date on that ruling is April of 2020, and it list RBG as one of the signatories.
Saw the month and day, missed the year. 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RocketMan on May 02, 2022, 11:32:37 AM
The dead still vote democrat so why not SCOTUS justices? :rofl:

Unfortunately, that's a good point.  We probably shouldn't give them any ideas.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: kgbsquirrel on May 02, 2022, 03:00:23 PM
Unfortunately even with a favorable decision all too many jurisdictions are comfortable with ignoring them and doing what they want in restricting freedoms.

Political ad I keep getting hit with on youtube is for a candidate running for governor, and there is a line that explicitly says "no matter what happens at the supreme court."

So yeah, *expletive deleted*ck your court decisions they're going to do what they want anyways.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 02, 2022, 03:53:11 PM
Political ad I keep getting hit with on youtube is for a candidate running for governor, and there is a line that explicitly says "no matter what happens at the supreme court."

So yeah, *expletive deleted*ck your court decisions they're going to do what they want anyways.

Are they referring to guns? Because a lot of states are getting ready to guarantee abortion "rights" in state law, in case SCOTUS reverses Roe.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: kgbsquirrel on May 02, 2022, 04:34:46 PM
Are they referring to guns? Because a lot of states are getting ready to guarantee abortion "rights" in state law, in case SCOTUS reverses Roe.

Nope, it's just about keeping baby murder going even if the supreme court says boo.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 02, 2022, 06:12:52 PM
They made their ruling, now let's see them enforce it.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on May 02, 2022, 09:56:58 PM
Are they referring to guns? Because a lot of states are getting ready to guarantee abortion "rights" in state law, in case SCOTUS reverses Roe.

About that

https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=66554.0
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Bogie on May 03, 2022, 12:13:46 AM
Okayfine - move to California. We'll be sending our tweakers there in a few months...
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on May 05, 2022, 12:14:53 AM
from youtube/armed scholar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCfoAh5Ci2g

 ( abortion leak affect )

 I think that it was the justice Katenji Brown - or one of her woke mob staffers - that leaked the draft
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RocketMan on May 05, 2022, 09:37:42 AM
from youtube/armed scholar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCfoAh5Ci2g

 ( abortion leak affect )

 I think that it was the justice Katenji Brown - or one of her woke mob staffers - that leaked the draft

Unlikely, as Brown is not officially seated on the court as yet.  Justice Breyer's last day on the court will be the end of this term.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 05, 2022, 09:46:34 AM
Unlikely, as Brown is not officially seated on the court as yet.  Justice Breyer's last day on the court will be the end of this term.

Be interesting to see how much data access she has been granted prior to being seated. But my money would be on one of the recent libtards or more likely their staff as being the source of the leak.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on May 05, 2022, 10:28:42 AM
I still submit that no justice, no matter how much I may despise their politics, did this. I think they all understand the consequences of this regarding the integrity of the SC and the long term damage.

From what I read, the liberal justices have a total of 16 clerks. Unless you suspect that a clerk for one of the conservative justices did this as some kind of SC conservative PSYOP, those 16, along with from what I understand, a small and less likely handful of admin assistants, are your potential culprits.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MillCreek on May 05, 2022, 10:33:34 AM
^^^I wonder if they will identify the culprit.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on May 05, 2022, 11:04:37 AM
If the Supreme Court is serious about the Second Amendment (and I do not believe a majority is) they will have to do much more.

Just saying that states have to grant CCW permits won't do much.  In some states, like NY, these may become theoretically legal, but practically impossible for the average joe to obtain... just like it is an obscenely difficult process to buy a pistol in NY right now.

So far, the two cases the Supreme Court has ruled on has done nothing for the vast majority of the country.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 09, 2022, 02:24:30 PM

So far, the two cases the Supreme Court has ruled on has done nothing for the vast majority of the country.

It sure was nice to see Chicago get concealed carry, though. :lol:
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 09, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
If the Supreme Court is serious about the Second Amendment (and I do not believe a majority is) they will have to do much more.

Just saying that states have to grant CCW permits won't do much.  In some states, like NY, these may become theoretically legal, but practically impossible for the average joe to obtain... just like it is an obscenely difficult process to buy a pistol in NY right now.

So far, the two cases the Supreme Court has ruled on has done nothing for the vast majority of the country.

The 2A doesn't say anything about permits or licenses. A right for which each person needs a permission slip is not a right, it's a privilege. What's needed is for the SCOTUS to eviscerate "may issue" permit states such as Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, California, and Hawaii. That would be a good start.

Then there needs to be a good test case for eliminating permits/licenses entirely.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: dogmush on May 09, 2022, 03:13:00 PM
Virginia is an Open carry state.  Anyone have the addresses of Justices Kagan, Breyer, and Sotomayor?  Perhaps some peaceful protests in front of their houses are in order just so they know where the people stand on the issue.  I hear it's all the rage, and Law Enforcement won't bother you.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on May 09, 2022, 09:01:44 PM
Virginia is an Open carry state.  Anyone have the addresses of Justices Kagan, Breyer, and Sotomayor?  Perhaps some peaceful protests in front of their houses are in order just so they know where the people stand on the issue.  I hear it's all the rage, and Law Enforcement won't bother you.

ooh, I like that idea
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 06, 2022, 07:56:29 AM
Currently the dates for releasing opinions are:

May 02, 16, 23, 31
June 06, 13, 21, 27
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 06, 2022, 08:55:56 AM
Virginia is an Open carry state.  Anyone have the addresses of Justices Kagan, Breyer, and Sotomayor?  Perhaps some peaceful protests in front of their houses are in order just so they know where the people stand on the issue.  I hear it's all the rage, and Law Enforcement won't bother you.

I am sure you can eventually get out of it without charges.  I really doubt they will leave you alone.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: dogmush on June 06, 2022, 10:00:26 AM
(https://c.tenor.com/sK2mHU6kq9IAAAAM/thats-the-joke-ranier-wolfcastle.gif)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 06, 2022, 10:40:41 AM
(https://c.tenor.com/sK2mHU6kq9IAAAAM/thats-the-joke-ranier-wolfcastle.gif)
Was it a joke?   =)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on June 06, 2022, 11:19:14 AM
The 2A doesn't say anything about permits or licenses. A right for which each person needs a permission slip is not a right, it's a privilege. What's needed is for the SCOTUS to eviscerate "may issue" permit states such as Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, California, and Hawaii. That would be a good start.

Then there needs to be a good test case for eliminating permits/licenses entirely.

You are right, of course, but the Court won't do that.  The courts treat the 2nd as a pathetic fake right.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 06, 2022, 08:33:27 PM
darn, I was hoping that for once scotus wouldn't wait untill the last minute to release good news.
hopefully the delay is good news
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 06, 2022, 10:57:47 PM
They added a new day for Opinions, on Wednesday the 8th

 [ar15]
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 20, 2022, 11:13:06 PM
      I think tomorrow, first day of summer, is the day.
 I have a feeling it's gonna be huge.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: BobR on June 21, 2022, 12:13:00 AM
They added a new day for Opinions, on Wednesday the 8th

 [ar15]

Yep, they will drop the NYS and Roe vs Wade the same day, the 8th, and then all head to Bali for a vacation. :)


bob
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 21, 2022, 11:00:42 PM
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

grumble grumble grumble .... you seem to be correct ...grumble grumble grumble ..
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 11:15:09 PM
Yep, they will drop the NYS and Roe vs Wade the same day, the 8th, and then all head to Bali for a vacation. :)


bob

(https://c.tenor.com/0md5xJfu43gAAAAC/hiding-bunker.gif)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: 230RN on June 22, 2022, 05:30:39 PM
Unfortunately, that's a good point.  We probably shouldn't give them any ideas.

Oh, I'm sure it's been whispered around the Lefty water coolers.  Meanwhile, at the Conservative water coolers, they're singing "On the good ship Lollipop."

Given the pollyanna predictions for a Republican Conservative sweep this November, I wonder if impeachment of Supreme Court Justices might be suggested in later legislative sessions.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 22, 2022, 05:51:32 PM
Yep, they will drop the NYS and Roe vs Wade the same day, the 8th, and then all head to Bali for a vacation. :)


bob
If that is the last day before a summer break, I think that is advisable.  Get out of DC.  Ask security or someone to watch their houses. 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 22, 2022, 09:04:46 PM
I heard on talk radio today that they're adding friday to the schedule.
thursday/Friday - just looked at the scotus website, thurs/fri are the last two days to release opinions, i saw on calguns they only very rarely release in july
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 10:50:57 AM
Quote
The Supreme Court on Thursday handed down its opinion in a landmark Second Amendment rights case, the biggest win for gun rights since the court's Heller ruling holding that "New York’s proper-cause requirement violates the Fourteenth Amendment by preventing law-abiding citizens with ordinary self-defense needs from exercising their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms in public for self-defense."

6-3
The usual suspects dissented

Quote
The ruling came down 6-3, with Justice Clarence Thomas writing the majority opinion joined by Justices Roberts, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett — plus concurring opinions by Justice Alito and Justice Kavanaugh. Justices Breyer wrote the dissent joined by Sotomayor, and Kagan.

Supreme Court Hands Down Biggest Second Amendment Victory Since Heller
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2022/06/23/scotus-gun-case-n2609212
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 10:53:54 AM
Getting the bunker ready for RvW which should dial the calls to pack the court to 11
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 23, 2022, 11:34:03 AM
At least it looks like the more conservative justices are not avoiding controversial cases.  Great to hear about this.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 11:36:41 AM
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 23, 2022, 11:44:21 AM
6-3
The usual suspects dissented

I was a little surprised (pleasantly) to see Roberts on the right side of the ruling.

So how long before the may-issue laws in CA, HI, NJ etc. are struck down?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 23, 2022, 11:52:08 AM
I was a little surprised (pleasantly) to see Roberts on the right side of the ruling.

So how long before the may-issue laws in CA, HI, NJ etc. are struck down?


I have to believe there are more than a few pro-2A state groups with petitions already drafted. They were just for this decision to file.

Brad
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 12:04:55 PM
I was a little surprised (pleasantly) to see Roberts on the right side of the ruling.

So how long before the may-issue laws in CA, HI, NJ etc. are struck down?

My understanding is this rules all may-issue laws unconstitutional just like when the RvW decision ruled state laws banning abortion unconstitutional.
But...

Quote
Keep in mind, however, that this doesn’t mean that anti-gun jurisdictions like New York, California, Hawaii and others will now be handing out concealed carry permits like candy. Expect them to put up barriers such as high fees and extensive training requirements (which, if they’re too burdensome, will then be challenged in the courts). Today’s ruling simply means that that these governments can no longer make arbitrary decisions regarding whose civil rights can be exercised and whose can’t.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-supreme-court-_-new-yorks-may-issue-concealed-carry-law/
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 12:17:47 PM
OMG! The horror of expecting the 2nd to be a first class right just like the 1st.
And this coming from the side that routinely takes a dump on the 1st

CNN Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin is not happy with SCOTUS' Second Amendment ruling.
https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1539982844516356097
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 23, 2022, 12:31:13 PM
OMG! The horror of expecting the 2nd to be first class right just like the 1st.
And this coming from the side that routinely takes a dump on the 1st

CNN Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin is not happy with SCOTUS' Second Amendment ruling.
https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1539982844516356097

Toobin and his ilk: Can't have the peasants exercising their rights.  They might start thinking that they're equal to us.

(ETA: I  :rofl: at some of the comments)


Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 12:33:27 PM
And someone had to drag Drag Queens into this

Quote
    ABC's Terry Moran implies there will be a fear that the SCOTUS decision on guns means people will show up with guns at Drag Queen Story Hours to intimidate them from going on.
    — Curtis Houck (@CurtisHouck) June 23, 2022

More examples of meltdowns at
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/06/23/liberal-media-is-going-insane-over-supreme-court-gun-ruling-n2609214
Warning: some are brain cell killers
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 12:45:53 PM
I was a little surprised (pleasantly) to see Roberts on the right side of the ruling.

So how long before the may-issue laws in CA, HI, NJ etc. are struck down?

Well it is "The Roberts Court"  :O

Quote
    The legacy of the Roberts Court is looking darker and more dangerous by the day. This decision siding with the gun lobby will lead to more innocent people being killed at a time when gun violence is already surging. Join @Everytown and @MomsDemand to fight back.

    — Mike Bloomberg (@MikeBloomberg) June 23, 2022
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/23/anti-gun-democrats-lash-out-after-scotus-decision-striking-down-may-issue-carry-laws-n59679
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 12:48:33 PM
Now on to RvW  [popcorn]
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 12:57:52 PM
I think they're crazy enough to try this

Quote
    It has become necessary to dissolve the Supreme Court of the United States.

    The first step is for a state the "court" has now forced guns upon, to ignore this ruling.

    Great. You're a court? Why and how do think you can enforce your rulings?#IgnoreTheCourt

    — Keith Olbermann (@KeithOlbermann) June 23, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/23/insurrection-y-keith-olbermann-claiming-its-necessary-to-dissolve-scotus-while-melting-down-over-gun-ruling-backfires-pun-intended/

Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 23, 2022, 01:03:02 PM
Sounds like treason.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: TechMan on June 23, 2022, 01:26:01 PM
And someone had to drag Drag Queens into this

More examples of meltdowns at
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/06/23/liberal-media-is-going-insane-over-supreme-court-gun-ruling-n2609214
Warning: some are brain cell killers

More "BLOOD RUNNING IN THE STREETS" can they find anything else to say.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 23, 2022, 01:32:10 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ny-gov-hochul-defiant-supreme-court-handgun-ruling-were-just-getting-started

Quote
Hochul went on to state that she is "prepared to go back to muskets" through gun restrictions.

Let me know when her protective detail and the state police are all carrying muskets.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 01:34:58 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ny-gov-hochul-defiant-supreme-court-handgun-ruling-were-just-getting-started

Let me know when her protective detail and the state police are all carrying muskets.

Pushing cannons around  :rofl:
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 23, 2022, 01:35:31 PM
We need Joy Behar's reaction to this. Turns out black people are not just buying guns; now blacks are writing SCOTUS opinions that let them carry guns!
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: sumpnz on June 23, 2022, 02:02:44 PM
Most likely NY, NJ, HI, etc will eventually pass “shall issue” laws, but they’ll make the permits hideously expensive, likely attach onerous training requirements, and quite possibly require insurance that is going to be very costly if it’s even available at all.  And if it’s not affordable (or even available) they’ll shrug and say too bad. 

Great as this ruling is, anything short of invalidating ALL permitting laws and making “constitutional carry” a nationwide standard very little will actually improve meaningfully.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: dogmush on June 23, 2022, 02:08:31 PM
I have had several democrats tell me that it's explicitly racist to make exercising a right cost money, because it disproportionately effects black and brown communities.

You're right, the'll try to make it expensive, and we need to call out their Jim Crow Poll Tax at every turn.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 23, 2022, 02:08:43 PM
I was a little surprised (pleasantly) to see Roberts on the right side of the ruling.

So how long before the may-issue laws in CA, HI, NJ etc. are struck down?

While I am happy with this ruling (haven't read it yet but...) I am the eternal skeptic.
They made their ruling, now let's see them enforce it.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on June 23, 2022, 02:12:39 PM
Most likely NY, NJ, HI, etc will eventually pass “shall issue” laws, but they’ll make the permits hideously expensive, likely attach onerous training requirements, and quite possibly require insurance that is going to be very costly if it’s even available at all.  And if it’s not affordable (or even available) they’ll shrug and say too bad. 

Great as this ruling is, anything short of invalidating ALL permitting laws and making “constitutional carry” a nationwide standard very little will actually improve meaningfully.

This is exactly what will happen. 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 23, 2022, 02:52:18 PM
Most likely NY, NJ, HI, etc will eventually pass “shall issue” laws, but they’ll make the permits hideously expensive, likely attach onerous training requirements, and quite possibly require insurance that is going to be very costly if it’s even available at all.  And if it’s not affordable (or even available) they’ll shrug and say too bad. 

Great as this ruling is, anything short of invalidating ALL permitting laws and making “constitutional carry” a nationwide standard very little will actually improve meaningfully.
Adams Says New York Can't Become the 'Wild, Wild West'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AgM8SUbXmY

You are correct.  He mentioned making a list of prohibited places among other things. 

He is wrong though, New York is only unique in that people can't defend themselves like a human being should.  Their crime and corruption are hardly unique.  I think a lot of New Yorkers would be happier in the Wild Wild West. 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2022, 03:05:49 PM
Some areas in CA (at least when I was still there) required psychiatric evaluation before "may issue" permit issuance. I wonder if that will become more widespread in the states who want to fight this ruling? A $1000 or so session with a shrink would certainly cut down the number of applicants. Though I'm not even sure of the legality of it even for "may issue".
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 23, 2022, 03:15:59 PM
Some areas in CA (at least when I was still there) required psychiatric evaluation before "may issue" permit issuance. I wonder if that will become more widespread in the states who want to fight this ruling? A $1000 or so session with a shrink would certainly cut down the number of applicants. Though I'm not even sure of the legality of it even for "may issue".
If that was the only requirement, I figure word would get around pretty quick on who to see to get cleared.  Or some enterprising pro-gun person would get certified to do the evaluation.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 23, 2022, 03:20:57 PM
https://twitter.com/drefanzor/status/1540009667832647682
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 23, 2022, 03:27:45 PM
Most likely NY, NJ, HI, etc will eventually pass “shall issue” laws, but they’ll make the permits hideously expensive, likely attach onerous training requirements, and quite possibly require insurance that is going to be very costly if it’s even available at all.  And if it’s not affordable (or even available) they’ll shrug and say too bad. 

Great as this ruling is, anything short of invalidating ALL permitting laws and making “constitutional carry” a nationwide standard very little will actually improve meaningfully.

Some of you need to allow yourselves a little happiness. Those states are already doing that. This ruling will make it easier to challenge them, and force change. If Illinois can be forced to allow carry (after McDonald), it ought to be possible elsewhere.

We've been winning the carry fight for decades - just takes longer in the more backward states.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: charby on June 23, 2022, 03:33:47 PM
So NY could just require an in person 3 credit hour college class as a requirement for a carry permit. Only taught m-f at 8am at one college/university in the state.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 23, 2022, 03:38:21 PM
So NY could just require an in person 3 credit hour college class as a requirement for a carry permit. Only taught m-f at 8am at one college/university in the state.

Tuition:  $10,000.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: p12 on June 23, 2022, 03:58:10 PM
 I’m not a legal scholar.

Watched the Armed Scholar and this may be a really big deal.

They changed the scrutiny guidelines for the gun laws. Specifically stated that only one test. Second amendment wording historical context and common practice and then full stop.

No additional scrutiny.

Based on what I have heard this could be a basis for challenge to NFA.

The Armed Scholar dude who never gets excited almost let out a holy *expletive deleted*it moment.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: dogmush on June 23, 2022, 04:00:21 PM
^realistically, probably not. This decision has a lot to say about means end scrutiny and the 2A, and none of it lends itself to states getting away with those kind of games.

They could try, but they'll be sued and risk an even more plainly worded decision.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 04:28:49 PM
https://twitter.com/drefanzor/status/1540009667832647682

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 23, 2022, 05:21:47 PM
I have just learned that it is Clarence Thomas's birthday. (He wrote the decision.)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 23, 2022, 05:46:07 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/06/nothing-changes-today-lawless-nyc-mayor-eric-adams-promises-ignore-supreme-court-ruling-concealed-gun-laws/

This is the crappy part. There are no personal consequences for elected officials ignoring the ruling. The city/state will do as they damn well please and the peasantry be damned. They will get taken to court again and the trials and hearings will drag on for years with the government being funded by the taxpayer and the plaintiff paying our of pocket and donations. Meanwhile rights will be infringed and too damn bad for those that have their rights violated.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: sumpnz on June 23, 2022, 06:38:07 PM
So NY could just require an in person 3 credit hour college class as a requirement for a carry permit. Only taught m-f at 8am at one college/university in the state.

Limited to 1 enrollee per session.  Only offered once a year.

And the instructor is out sick.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RocketMan on June 23, 2022, 06:50:16 PM
I kind of figured NY state would make obtaining a license such an onerous and expensive process that it would amount to a de facto ban.  I am not at all surprised that NYC Mayor Adams plans to just ignore the ruling entirely.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Jim147 on June 23, 2022, 06:58:56 PM
The New York governor proved she's a dumbass today. She went with the flintlock thing and said she was willing to go back in time. She better write that out and give to a rider so we know because guess what else they didn't have back then to let you spew your first amendment protected nonsense?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 23, 2022, 07:58:35 PM
 I'm pleased, imo Adams and others will blow smoke for awhile but at the end of the day will not want to face legal sanctions for ignoring scotus.
 Yes, we can end NFA, how can we be a well regulated militia with out SBR's with selector switches?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 23, 2022, 08:33:54 PM
  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
meanwhile, back at the Whitehouse
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1540085827211915265?s=21&t=KteffOhfdGBeZJUYU6S4-A
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 23, 2022, 09:00:24 PM
I just received an e-mail from the NRA, claiming credit for the NYSRPA case win.

The NRA isn't listed as a petitioner in the decision, so they can hardly claim credit -- legitimately -- but that isn't stopping them. Does anyone know if the NRA played any role at all in the case?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 09:09:41 PM
Heard WLaP is buying a new suit to celebrate
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2022, 09:11:00 PM
Reno May has a good summary of what CA is going to try and do. Apparently most of these things were in the works anyway, but they have now added restrictions to a "shall issue" permit, including potentially using applicants' social media posts to deny permits.



https://youtu.be/Rvwt3LiUZ2I
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Devonai on June 23, 2022, 09:19:47 PM
Just red flag the bastards and get it over with, CA.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on June 23, 2022, 10:05:22 PM
I just received an e-mail from the NRA, claiming credit for the NYSRPA case win.

The NRA isn't listed as a petitioner in the decision, so they can hardly claim credit -- legitimately -- but that isn't stopping them. Does anyone know if the NRA played any role at all in the case?

The NYSRPA the official NRA-affiliated State Association of New York.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 23, 2022, 10:24:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lrJJHSS.jpg)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 23, 2022, 10:37:00 PM
 I really wish Dick Baker and Scout 26 were here to celebrate with us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFN51ZMIg3E
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: sumpnz on June 24, 2022, 12:51:49 AM
I really wish Dick Baker and Scout 26 were here to celebrate with us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFN51ZMIg3E

No kidding!!
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Boomhauer on June 24, 2022, 06:33:04 AM
I really wish Dick Baker and Scout 26 were here to celebrate with us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFN51ZMIg3E

I like to imagine that they get to hear the collective wailing and gnashing of the left as a whole. Such beautiful music to the ears.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 10:09:44 AM
The two lawyers that just won a landmark victory, securing their clients' fundamental rights, were just ditched by their law firm. Quit the gun stuff, or get out of here:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/2nd-amendment-bruen-new-york-gun-case-supreme-court-decision-kirkland-and-ellis-rule-of-law-constitution-11656017031?mod=djemalertNEWS

I wish these anti-American "Americans" would go find their own country, somewhere else. North Korea, perhaps.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 10:12:11 AM
Did anyone see the Alan Dershowitz interview just recently, where he mentioned "AK15s"? Is he that clueless, or just joking?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 10:13:16 AM
The two lawyers that just won a landmark victory, securing their clients' fundamental rights, were just ditched by their law firm. Quit the gun stuff, or get out of here:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/2nd-amendment-bruen-new-york-gun-case-supreme-court-decision-kirkland-and-ellis-rule-of-law-constitution-11656017031?mod=djemalertNEWS

I wish these anti-American "Americans" would go find their own country, somewhere else. North Korea, perhaps.

Wow. I bet if they would have lost the case, the firm would have been prodding the attorneys to appeal and do whatever else that required the clients to pony up more dough, expecting them to continue to lose, but also be a cash cow.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 10:13:54 AM
Did anyone see the Alan Dershowitz interview just recently, where he mentioned "AK15s"? Is he that clueless, or just joking?

I thought he was semi-red pilled. Am I misremembering?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2022, 10:17:04 AM
While he may be clueless like most politicians and that more than likely was a brain fart there actually is an AK-15. Don't think any ever made it to the US

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/ak_15.htm

https://roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/strelkovoe-oruzhie/assault-rifles-/AK-15/
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on June 24, 2022, 10:17:58 AM
And SCOTUS just blew this one out of the news cycle by overturning Roe v. Wade (correctly, I would argue)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 10:24:10 AM
Also on the lawyers and the law firm, the comments at the WSJ article are interesting. Not to say "I told you so", but it continues to reinforce my opinion that at least 50% of "conservatives" are not the friends of the 2nd Amendment and freedom.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 10:43:28 AM
Also on the lawyers and the law firm, the comments at the WSJ article are interesting. Not to say "I told you so", but it continues to reinforce my opinion that at least 50% of "conservatives" are not the friends of the 2nd Amendment and freedom.


I don't think the WSJ is the kind of rock-ribbed, MAGA site that would only be read by the red. Even if it were, lefties like to troll pro-American site's comment sections.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 24, 2022, 10:57:17 AM
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FB14bKa-CIAEECoJ.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2022, 11:21:51 AM
The winning attorneys in the case were told by the other partners in their law firm to either ditch their 2A clients or leave the firm. They chose to leave.

Bruen attorneys leave law firm after being told to ditch 2A clients
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/24/bruen-attorneys-leave-law-firm-after-being-told-to-ditch-2a-clients-n59719
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 11:25:03 AM

I don't think the WSJ is the kind of rock-ribbed, MAGA site that would only be read by the red.

No, but it is read by a lot of non-MAGA establishment conservatives. I watch Fox Business almost every morning, and I can tell you that of all the very fiscally conservative guests they have on, fully 50% are "yay 2nd Amendment, but..." types.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Bogie on June 24, 2022, 12:27:36 PM
And...
 
The racists are coming out of the woodwork around this...
 
ZOMG, but THOSE PEOPLE are going to be carrying guns!
 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 12:40:21 PM
And...
 
The racists are coming out of the woodwork around this...
 
ZOMG, but THOSE PEOPLE are going to be carrying guns!

Did you see that Thomas cited the Dred Scott decision on the rights of THOSE PEOPLE to bear arms?  :rofl:
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: sumpnz on June 24, 2022, 12:56:29 PM
Did you see that Thomas cited the Dred Scott decision on the rights of THOSE PEOPLE to bear arms?  :rofl:

That was beautiful.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2022, 02:30:24 PM
The winning attorneys in the case were told by the other partners in their law firm to either ditch their 2A clients or leave the firm. They chose to leave.

Bruen attorneys leave law firm after being told to ditch 2A clients
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/24/bruen-attorneys-leave-law-firm-after-being-told-to-ditch-2a-clients-n59719

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that other, bigger clients of that law firm are anti-gun and are making threats to find another firm. 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 02:35:26 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that other, bigger clients of that law firm are anti-gun and are making threats to find another firm.

Comments in the article said that this law firm represented big tobacco back in the day. I guess that was okie dokie.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: JTHunter on June 24, 2022, 02:46:15 PM
Most likely NY, NJ, HI, etc will eventually pass “shall issue” laws, but they’ll make the permits hideously expensive, likely attach onerous training requirements, and quite possibly require insurance that is going to be very costly if it’s even available at all.  And if it’s not affordable (or even available) they’ll shrug and say too bad. 

Great as this ruling is, anything short of invalidating ALL permitting laws and making “constitutional carry” a nationwide standard very little will actually improve meaningfully.

Yes, like IL-ANNOY has already done.  They were the LAST state to allow CC but anybody from the Chicago area have found ot it is nearly impossible for them to get permits as the "authorities" there file objections against an incredible number of people, even going so far as to (falsely) claim they are "gang members".  Most of Chicago's objections have been found to be baseless by the state review board.  It does increase the length of time and the number of "hoops" applicants must jump through to get a permit.  :facepalm:  [popcorn]
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 04:44:11 PM
According to The Federalist, Thomas has this to say about shall-issue permit rules that states may adopt:

Quote
...because any permitting scheme can be put toward abusive ends, we do not rule out constitutional challenges to shall-issue regimes where, for example, lengthy wait times in processing license applications or exorbitant fees deny ordinary citizens their right to public carry

https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/24/6-takeaways-from-the-supreme-court-decision-protecting-americans-right-to-self-defense/
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Strings on June 24, 2022, 04:51:39 PM
We kinda already HAVE a decision on NFA, if people actually read it (Miller)

Quote
In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense.

That sounds very much like M4s and M249s are covered, grandpa's O/U not so much

Of course, there's a confluence of interest in keeping FA out of the hands of us plebiscite, so....
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Devonai on June 24, 2022, 08:33:07 PM
According to The Federalist, Thomas has this to say about shall-issue permit rules that states may adopt:

https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/24/6-takeaways-from-the-supreme-court-decision-protecting-americans-right-to-self-defense/

You're on notice, Connecticut.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 24, 2022, 10:19:02 PM
You're on notice, Connecticut.

When I got CT pistol permit way back in 1987 it was an annoying and intrusive process but it seemed mostly a matter of checking the boxes and jumping through the right hoops. No anticipation that a denial was very probable.
Unconstitutional but it was the process.
Sign off by a certified NRA instructor,  background check, interview with county sheriff or police chief, don't remember which and I got my permit.

Has it changed much since then?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: sumpnz on June 24, 2022, 11:24:35 PM
Reminds me to get another WA CPL.  Let mine expire 2-3 years ago, so have go through the “new” permit process rather than renewal.  Not a big difference but costs a bit more than simply renewing.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 25, 2022, 12:38:16 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/zQYjn4H/73-A95-BDB-760-A-4-ABE-9217-A19-FBC9382-BD.png)

"Own a musket for home defense, just as the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended."

(stolen from elsewhere)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 25, 2022, 09:07:35 AM
So will Hochel's security be switching to muskets?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 25, 2022, 09:54:19 AM
California's attorney general might be seeing the writing on the wall:

https://twitter.com/gunpolicy/status/1540501223543021576
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 09:58:13 AM
California's attorney general might be seeing the writing on the wall:

https://twitter.com/gunpolicy/status/1540501223543021576

"effective immediately, issuing authorities should no longer require proof of good cause for the issuance of a public-carry license."

while we figure out a workaround
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 25, 2022, 10:11:07 AM
"effective immediately, issuing authorities should no longer require proof of good cause for the issuance of a public-carry license."

while we figure out a workaround

There is still language about "good moral character" which they will probably use as an excuse to deny CCW applications.  So probably more legal challenges coming.

Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 10:15:33 AM
There is still language about "good moral character" which they will probably use as an excuse to deny CCW applications.  So probably more legal challenges coming.

Do you support on demand abortion?
No
Application denied because you hate womb carriers
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 25, 2022, 10:31:02 AM
Do you support on demand abortion?
No
Application denied because you hate womb carriers

That's probably not far off the mark, even if you were being sarcastic. I expect CA and other lib states will be tightly embracing "domestic hate speech/group/terrorist/white supremacist.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 10:34:15 AM
That's probably not far off the mark, even if you were being sarcastic. I expect CA and other lib states will be tightly embracing "domestic hate speech/group/terrorist/white supremacist.

I usually try to keep one foot of my sarcasm at least somewhat on solid ground.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 25, 2022, 10:44:12 AM
Do you support on demand abortion?
No
Application denied because you hate womb carriers

Application denied?  Sounds like grounds for an automatic red flag to be served, because only a bad person would get denied.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 10:45:32 AM
Application denied?  Sounds like grounds for an automatic red flag to be served, because only a bad person would get denied.

Yep, automatic red flag.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 25, 2022, 10:50:28 AM
Yep, automatic red flag.

A 72 hour psych hold if they act in any way upset during any part of the denial or red flag too.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MillCreek on June 25, 2022, 10:59:07 AM
Reminds me to get another WA CPL.  Let mine expire 2-3 years ago, so have go through the “new” permit process rather than renewal.  Not a big difference but costs a bit more than simply renewing.

I don't know if Skagit County is the same, but here in Snohomish, at least for the renewal, the Sheriff's office contracted with a company called Permiteum. It is an online process, and best of all, the permit is now printed on plastic credit-card stock.  No more folding and laminating to fit in my wallet.  Utah now requires a Washington permit to issue a Utah multi-state permit to Washington residents, which is the reason that I have two permits: Washington and Utah.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 25, 2022, 11:04:56 AM
Utah now requires a Washington permit to issue a Utah multi-state permit to Washington residents, which is the reason that I have two permits: Washington and Utah.

Another interesting tangent. When I lived in CA, UT required no CA permit to get a Utah non-resident. I believe that was based on (non) reciprocity on the CA side. I do have to submit a copy of my ID permit when I renew my UT permit. I wonder if we will see changes to the non-resident permit process in various states if everyone is now "shall issue".
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: sumpnz on June 25, 2022, 11:16:34 AM
I don't know if Skagit County is the same, but here in Snohomish, at least for the renewal, the Sheriff's office contracted with a company called Permiteum. It is an online process, and best of all, the permit is now printed on plastic credit-card stock.  No more folding and laminating to fit in my wallet.  Utah now requires a Washington permit to issue a Utah multi-state permit to Washington residents, which is the reason that I have two permits: Washington and Utah.

Neato.  I’ll have to look that up.  Thanks!
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MillCreek on June 25, 2022, 12:05:18 PM
Another interesting tangent. When I lived in CA, UT required no CA permit to get a Utah non-resident. I believe that was based on (non) reciprocity on the CA side. I do have to submit a copy of my ID permit when I renew my UT permit. I wonder if we will see changes to the non-resident permit process in various states if everyone is now "shall issue".

The first time I got my Utah permit, I did not have to have a Washington permit.  By the time I renewed, the Washington permit was required.  I read something on their website saying that it was a new Utah legal/regulatory requirement passed by the Legislature.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MillCreek on June 25, 2022, 12:07:07 PM
Neato.  I’ll have to look that up.  Thanks!

I see that Skagit is now using Permiteum:  https://skagitwa.permitium.com/ccw/start
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RocketMan on June 25, 2022, 12:41:50 PM
A 72 hour psych hold if they act in any way upset disappointed during any part of the denial or red flag too.

FTFY.  Won't have to be upset or angry.  Just "darn it" disappointed.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Bogie on June 25, 2022, 12:50:45 PM
Until about 15 years or so ago, St. Louis City required two letters from "responsible" individuals attesting to the character of someone who wished to legally purchase a handgun.
 
And if the prospective purchaser was black, the letters obviously were not from "responsible" individuals.
 
We've fixed SO much of that.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 25, 2022, 02:13:06 PM
So will Hochel's security be switching to muskets?

  Gawd, new yorkers like her are so dense - infuriating imbeciles, A: quite some time ago, a guy got arrested for having a replica functional black powder Kentucky Rifle in his apt as a wall hanger, they eventually let him go due to not having ammo/powder.
 In the media they kept on showing pictures of a Barrett .50 because it was a fifty caliber rifle.
B: They would certainly arrest anyone they caught waking around with "muskets". Not that they know the difference between a blunderbuss, a musket or a Kentucky Rifle
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 25, 2022, 02:21:59 PM
 hopefully, they will now be forced to accept national reciprocity for ccw, you can drive anywhere on a driver's license , it needs to be the same for gun owners-living on the border of California is a drag
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: JTHunter on June 25, 2022, 10:23:34 PM
A: quite some time ago, a guy got arrested for having a replica functional black powder Kentucky Rifle in his apt as a wall hanger, they eventually let him go due to not having ammo/powder.

Wasn't there someone, possibly a professor from a southern college, driving north through NJ and got pulled over and went through H.3LL because he had BP pistol with him?  It may have been in his glove box or in a box in the trunk (I don't remember) but they went through all kinds of legal shenanigans several years ago.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on June 25, 2022, 11:27:30 PM
Wasn't there someone, possibly a professor from a southern college, driving north through NJ and got pulled over and went through H.3LL because he had BP pistol with him?  It may have been in his glove box or in a box in the trunk (I don't remember) but they went through all kinds of legal shenanigans several years ago.

I do not recall, but I wouldn't be surprised - NJ is beautiful in some sections but a legal S hole everywhere in the state.

 it will take a yr or two for nj/ny/ca to really start complying and it will be a fight for every win
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 26, 2022, 12:22:59 AM
hopefully, they will now be forced to accept national reciprocity for ccw, you can drive anywhere on a driver's license , it needs to be the same for gun owners-living on the border of California is a drag

No, they won't. The decision specifically said this decision does not affect existing permitting systems that [paraphrased] aren't arbitrary or capricious. If states are still allowed to have their own permitting systems, they aren't required to recognize any other states' permits.

I actually think this should be covered by the "full faith and credit" clause, but lawyer types tell me that doesn't apply. They have a reason, but it doesn't make sense to me. I guess that's why I'm not a lawyer.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 12:56:45 PM
I was just reading that the CA AG is fast tracking legislation to vastly expand "gun free zones" and other areas where guns would be prohibited. I suppose that is one other sly workaround they can use. You get your permit, but pretty much everywhere you go is off limits for concealed carry.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 26, 2022, 01:13:52 PM
I was just reading that the CA AG is fast tracking legislation to vastly expand "gun free zones" and other areas where guns would be prohibited. I suppose that is one other sly workaround they can use. You get your permit, but pretty much everywhere you go is off limits for concealed carry.

Illinois passed a law banning carrying firearms within 1,000ft of any and all schools. If you looked at a map of many cites and centered a 2,000ft dia circle on every school 90% of those cities would be covered.
Also IIRC Illinois also passed a law that banned carrying firearms within 1,000 of a public park.

Both got struck down by the IL SC
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on June 26, 2022, 01:16:18 PM
I really wondering what the courts are going to do now.  Are they going be serious and start striking down restrictive carry laws now, or not? 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 01:25:55 PM
Both got struck down by the IL SC

With the IANAL caveat, wouldn't those types of rulings only apply to public areas? In a state like CA, with a large anti population, the AG could work with private entities to "suggest" they put "no guns" signs at their front doors, and even make violation a firearms felony versus the misdemeanor trespassing charge it is in most private places that do that.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Devonai on June 26, 2022, 02:42:05 PM
When I got CT pistol permit way back in 1987 it was an annoying and intrusive process but it seemed mostly a matter of checking the boxes and jumping through the right hoops. No anticipation that a denial was very probable.
Unconstitutional but it was the process.
Sign off by a certified NRA instructor,  background check, interview with county sheriff or police chief, don't remember which and I got my permit.

Has it changed much since then?

It doesn't sound like it has.  I am hoping for a streamlining of the entire process, which includes the (always has been) stupid requirement of getting a town permit first.  Which, by the way, no longer even allows you to carry in that town.  So, WHY DOES IT EXIST?

The process of getting a state permit is the same once you get your town permit as it is for non-residents, which again begs the question of why require a town permit first if the state is just going to make you go through the same process again?

Lastly, once you add up all the fees leading to the final permit, I think you can argue that it's prohibitive enough to force a change, if some entity has the time, money, and lawyers to do so.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 26, 2022, 03:11:13 PM
Illinois passed a law banning carrying firearms within 1,000ft of any and all schools. If you looked at a map of many cites and centered a 2,000ft dia circle on every school 90% of those cities would be covered.
Also IIRC Illinois also passed a law that banned carrying firearms within 1,000 of a public park.

Both got struck down by the IL SC

That's already prohibited under federal law.

"Gun Free School Zones Act."
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 26, 2022, 03:12:55 PM
It doesn't sound like it has.  I am hoping for a streamlining of the entire process, which includes the (always has been) stupid requirement of getting a town permit first.  Which, by the way, no longer even allows you to carry in that town.  So, WHY DOES IT EXIST?


Yes it does. In fact, it's no longer a "town" permit -- it's now a "temporary state permit."
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 26, 2022, 03:33:49 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CfO6HBILR_T/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I saw this yesterday.  Not certain if there is a non-Instagram source. 

Essentially says California AG issues legal alert that authorities should no longer require "proof of good cause" for the issuance of carry license. 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: French G. on June 26, 2022, 04:06:41 PM
Gun people are really missing the point. Like Roe people or gay married people why do we get excited when the rights we consider essential to life are confirmed by one or two people voting in a court? I mean glad we won but I am at the point where I am going to do me not matter what a court says.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 26, 2022, 04:09:00 PM
Gun people are really missing the point. Like Roe people or gay married people why do we get excited when the rights we consider essential to life are confirmed by one or two people voting in a court? I mean glad we won but I am at the point where I am going to do me not matter what a court says.

Not getting jailed for exercising fundamental rights is kind of a big deal.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: 230RN on June 26, 2022, 04:12:51 PM
That's already prohibited under federal law.

"Gun Free School Zones Act."

I complained loudly several times about the fact that all these school shooters were already breaking that law, but nobody seemed to pick up on it... least of all, those of us who are supposed to know about it.

So, like, a whole lot of cotton-pickin' good that stupid law did, right?

"Oh, wait,.,. I can't go in that school and shoot the place up!  I can't have a gun within a thousand feet of a school. Drat!"

Grrr....

Terry, 230RN
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 26, 2022, 04:41:43 PM
Give thanks to the deity of your choice that Merrick Garland didn't get appointed to the Supreme Court.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-statement-supreme-court-ruling-new-york-state-rifle-pistol-association-inc

Paraphrased: "The federal agency charged with upholding the laws and the constitution thinks the federal body charged with interpreting the constitution is wrong, so we're going to do our best to subvert the law of the land."
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 26, 2022, 05:28:43 PM
Gun people are really missing the point. Like Roe people or gay married people why do we get excited when the rights we consider essential to life are confirmed by one or two people voting in a court? I mean glad we won but I am at the point where I am going to do me not matter what a court says.
A small number of people took it away in the first place bit by bit over time.  The importance of judges in our govt is not widely recognized until something like this happens. 

The importance of voting also.  A whole lot of people turned out to vote for Trump in 2016 and overcame what I think was a plan to get Hilary elected in the same way Biden was.  They just weren't prepared for Trump's turnout.  That led to 3 supreme court appointments and hundreds of lower level federal judge appointments that were pushed through.  Pushed through because a previous Democrat Senate majority leader got impatient and removed the filibuster rule for that.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on June 26, 2022, 07:34:29 PM
Related:
Stephen Hunter: The Assault Weapon Massacres of 1964
https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/stephen-hunter-the-assault-weapon-massacres-of-1964/?goal=0_0d355b7f6d-e01f6f802c-424828993&mc_cid=e01f6f802c&mc_eid=d123d81d4a

Quote
    Possibly you’re old enough to remember the great massacre spree of 1964? Classrooms shot up, strip malls decimated, Scout troops blown away, fast foot restaurants turned into mortuaries.

    And all because, in its infinite stupidity, the U.S. Government dumped 240,000 high-capacity .30-caliber assault rifles into an otherwise innocent America.

Quote
Remember when that happened? No? Me neither, despite being a historian. That’s because it didn’t happen, despite hundreds of thousands of M-1 Carbines being dumped on an unsuspecting public in 1963 for less than a hundred bucks apiece. NRA members could buy them for a 20-dollar bill. No background check either.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MillCreek on June 26, 2022, 08:03:40 PM
^^^That was a really interesting article to read.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 09:51:39 AM
That's probably not far off the mark, even if you were being sarcastic. I expect CA and other lib states will be tightly embracing "domestic hate speech/group/terrorist/white supremacist.

I usually try to keep one foot of my sarcasm at least somewhat on solid ground.

Case in point

Quote
In guidance sent out to California law enforcement shortly after the Bruen decision was handed down, AG Rob Bonta reminded issuing authorities of the “good moral character” clause, and as UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh points out, appears to endorse an ideological test for those wanting to exercise their Second Amendment right to carry a firearm in self-defense. Here’s what Bonta said:
Quote
Bonta says issuing authorities in the state can not only personal references from applicants, but can scour their social media pages looking for anything that they can point to as a basis of denial. Volokh says the whole scheme sounds unconstitutional to him; not just as a violation of the Second Amendment rights of Californians, but as an infringement on their First Amendment rights as well.
Next up for California: an ideological test for concealed carry applicants?
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/27/next-up-for-california-an-ideological-test-for-concealed-carry-applicants-n59758
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on June 27, 2022, 10:49:04 AM
That's already prohibited under federal law.

"Gun Free School Zones Act."

The Federal Gun Free Schools Act- unconstitutional as it is- still exempts people with state carry permits, even to carry in a school.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 27, 2022, 11:47:22 AM
The Federal Gun Free Schools Act- unconstitutional as it is- still exempts people with state carry permits, even to carry in a school.

True, but it also provides that states can define their own gun free school zones. That would (and does) allow states to prohibit carry or possession in schools. Some states allow carry while in your vehicle when dropping off or picking up your kids, other states absolutely prohibit possession on school grounds.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 28, 2022, 03:26:32 PM
Looks like CA has taken things up a notch:

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/28/the-reloads-stephen-gutowski-reports-on-huge-leak-of-gun-owners-private-info-by-california-ags-office/
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 03:29:48 PM
I'm sure it was just an accident  ;/
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 07:41:17 PM
Looks like CA has taken things up a notch:

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/28/the-reloads-stephen-gutowski-reports-on-huge-leak-of-gun-owners-private-info-by-california-ags-office/

Now they're calling it a "data breach"

CRPA: California "data breach" exposes personal details of concealed carry holders
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/28/crpa-california-data-breach-exposes-personal-details-of-concealed-carry-holders-n59835
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 28, 2022, 08:41:18 PM
Now they're calling it a "data breach"

CRPA: California "data breach" exposes personal details of concealed carry holders
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/28/crpa-california-data-breach-exposes-personal-details-of-concealed-carry-holders-n59835

"He who controls the language ... "

It's all in the spin.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 28, 2022, 10:40:13 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/names-addresses-of-every-ccw-holder-in-california-exposed-sheriff-s-office-confirms/ar-AAYYpOn?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1263717a1e28459696263c1f77050a96

URL says it all.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 28, 2022, 11:01:47 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/28/law-professor-amazed-that-originalism-so-aligns-with-the-policies-of-the-republican-party/
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 29, 2022, 08:03:28 AM
I just read a reddit thread where it was claimed that the CA AG also made Firearms Safety Certificate (you need one to buy a handgun (or maybe any gun these days)) data available. While it doesn't include addresses, it contains date of birth and drivers license number, which is enough to steal identities.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: 230RN on June 29, 2022, 08:34:10 AM
Pardon any misunderstandings on my part, but aren't all guns, or at least hanguns, registered anyway in California?

That's the impression I get from the entertainment media anyhow, and I thought it reflected actual fact.

So why worry about concealed carry licensees being publcised?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 29, 2022, 08:35:38 AM
Pardon any misunderstandings on my part, but aren't all guns, or at least hanguns, registered anyway in California?

That's the impression I get from the entertainment media anyhow, and I thought it reflected actual fact.

So why worry about concealed carry licensees being publcised?

That only means the government knows who they are. It's not supposed to mean that every criminal in the state gets to know.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RocketMan on June 29, 2022, 08:39:18 AM
I just read a reddit thread where it was claimed that the CA AG also made Firearms Safety Certificate (you need one to buy a handgun (or maybe any gun these days)) data available. While it doesn't include addresses, it contains date of birth and drivers license number, which is enough to steal identities.

I wonder how far back those records go?  Is there any chance your information could be compromised, Ben?
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 29, 2022, 08:59:59 AM
I wonder how far back those records go?  Is there any chance your information could be compromised, Ben?

For sure. I didn't find the link to the site until after they were caught and pulled it, so couldn't see for myself, but I'm certainly in there, albeit with old addresses. I think I only bought one pistol after the safety certificates became a requirement, but bought guns after registration became a requirement.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MillCreek on June 29, 2022, 10:21:20 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289021569_2002397380150725_6532613883303220208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=94ZvTRm20rkAX8nwTHt&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-ZGJqtker18RmOjP5hOb1Lv_d7uZidiIBGZR5_4jLlSA&oe=62C09A57)
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MillCreek on June 30, 2022, 08:23:37 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/30/opinion/supreme-court-guns-new-york.html

An opinion piece on how a liberal wants a gun.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 30, 2022, 08:57:35 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/30/opinion/supreme-court-guns-new-york.html

An opinion piece on how a liberal wants a gun.

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Quote
I support background checks, waiting periods, assault weapon bans and gun control proposals that make it harder for people to obtain guns. We should strive for a world in which the only people with guns would be responsible citizens trained in firearm safety who purchased their guns legally, store them safely and use them only for hunting or sport shooting, or as a last resort for personal protection. Gun owners in New York should be required to take continuing education courses in order to renew their licenses. When gun owners are improperly trained and guns are not properly stored, there is a tremendous risk of injury to themselves and others.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 30, 2022, 09:03:19 AM
With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Quote
I support background checks, waiting periods, assault weapon bans and gun control proposals that make it harder for people to obtain guns. We should strive for a world in which the only people with guns would be responsible citizens trained in firearm safety who purchased their guns legally, store them safely and use them only for hunting or sport shooting, or as a last resort for personal protection. Gun owners in New York should be required to take continuing education courses in order to renew their licenses. When gun owners are improperly trained and guns are not properly stored, there is a tremendous risk of injury to themselves and others.

So with licenses, training, and safe storage laws we can solve our gang banger problem

Idiots
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on June 30, 2022, 09:05:56 AM
Quote
I support background checks, waiting periods, assault weapon bans and gun control proposals that make it harder for people to obtain guns. We should strive for a world in which the only people with guns would be responsible citizens trained in firearm safety who purchased their guns legally, store them safely and use them only for hunting or sport shooting, or as a last resort for personal protection. Gun owners in New York should be required to take continuing education courses in order to renew their licenses. When gun owners are improperly trained and guns are not properly stored, there is a tremendous risk of injury to themselves and others.

So how would the above stop stuff like this in the writer's home city?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspect-nyc-shooting-woman-pushing-baby-stroller-upper-east-side-at-large

Note that the mayor blames the gun, not the shooter.

I also suggest continuing education for drivers. I think a mandatory in-person course once a year would be good. I mean, it's only eight hours a year to save a child's life.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 30, 2022, 09:06:49 AM
So how would the above stop stuff like this in the writer's home city?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspect-nyc-shooting-woman-pushing-baby-stroller-upper-east-side-at-large

Note that the mayor blames the gun, not the shooter.

The shooter probably voted for him so it can't be his fault.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 30, 2022, 10:59:15 AM
Got to hand it to them they're creative when to comes to trying to figure out ways around that pesty Constitution and it's evil step child the Bill of Rights.
Don't think is going to hold up in court but it is creative.

Quote
Businesses that want guns around would have to put up a sign reading, “Concealed weapons welcome here,” or words to that effect, Hochul said. “Otherwise the presumption will be in the state of New York that they are not.”

And you'll have to spend 15hr at the range
We can only do one hour at a time and the next open hour is in 2027. And it appears the trainer has called in sick that day.

Quote
The state is setting new requirements for getting a handgun permit, Hochul said, including mandating 15 hours of in-person fire range training. The legislature will also enact new rules around firearm storage in homes and vehicles, she said.

New York Dems set to defy SCOTUS with new concealed carry laws
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/30/new-york-dems-set-to-defy-scotus-with-new-concealed-carry-laws-n59925
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 30, 2022, 11:17:58 AM
And that CA AG database Dox/Leak/Hack/Accident keeps getting worse and worse

Quote
The data leak from California Attorney General Rob Bonta’s office, originally reported to have been limited to the private and personal details of concealed carry permitees in the state, was far more extensive than his office first admitted.

Yesterday afternoon Bonta’s office acknowledged that in addition to the concealed carry records, which included the full names, home addresses, and drivers license numbers of all those who had applied for a concealed carry permit (not just those who were approved), other databases run by the AG’s office were also open and available to download for an unspecified amount of time this week.

Quote
On Wednesday, it was revealed that the exposures also extended to the Assault Weapon Registry, Handguns Certified for Sale, Dealer Record of Sale, Firearm Certificate Safety, and Gun Violence Restraining Order dashboards.
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/30/california-ag-offices-leak-of-gun-owner-info-even-worse-than-originally-admitted-n59917
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 30, 2022, 04:57:49 PM
Those assault weapons are so dangerous, we should make sure that criminals have no problem finding out who has them, and where those people live.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: grampster on June 30, 2022, 05:45:14 PM
Be good to put a 100ft wall up around Kali and NYC.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on June 30, 2022, 05:59:58 PM
Be good to put a 100ft wall up around Kali and NYC.

And NJ

New NJ gun control bills head to Murphy for signing
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/06/30/new-nj-gun-control-bills-head-to-murphy-for-signing-n59918
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 30, 2022, 11:33:13 PM
The untold truth about the gun menace.

https://youtu.be/YmyyEbvDgr8
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on July 01, 2022, 08:21:35 AM
You don't need data and facts when you have the power of feelings

Quote
    Anne: Do you have numbers to show that it’s the concealed carry permit holders that are committing crimes?

    Hochul: I don’t need to have numbers. I don’t need to have a data point to say this. I know that I have a responsibility for this state to have sensible gun safety laws. pic.twitter.com/NiCp7POO88
    — Anne McCloy (@AnneMcCloyNews) June 29, 2022

Hochul Rejects Needing Data to Support Passing Strict Gun Control Measures
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2022/07/01/hochul--i-dont-need-numbers-n2609635
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on July 01, 2022, 11:02:26 AM
At least she is admitting she has no good reason to be anti-gun.  Still crazy.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 01, 2022, 06:38:02 PM
You don't need data and facts when you have the power of feelings

Hochul Rejects Needing Data to Support Passing Strict Gun Control Measures
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2022/07/01/hochul--i-dont-need-numbers-n2609635

There you go. The Supremes said interest balancing was out, so ...
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on July 02, 2022, 09:14:16 AM
California's new back door strategy (SB918) is to allow shall issue, but basically ban carry most everywhere, including public sidewalks. Reno May also mentions the section about psych evals and that they can only be done by a shrink approved by the state for CCW evaluation. There are apparently very, very few of these, like one per county, which could put someone on a year or longer waiting list just to finish their application, let alone the wait time once the application is submitted.

8:00 in the video is where he lists the places SB918 makes CC illegal.

https://youtu.be/DbVuYvSorKo
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on July 02, 2022, 09:17:19 AM
California's new back door strategy (SB918) is to allow shall issue, but basically ban carry most everywhere, including public sidewalks. Reno May also mentions the section about psych evals and that they can only be done by a shrink approved by the state for CCW evaluation. There are apparently very, very few of these, like one per county, which could put someone on a year or longer waiting list just to finish their application, let alone the wait time once the application is submitted.

8:00 in the video is where he lists the places SB918 makes CC illegal.

https://youtu.be/DbVuYvSorKo

I say we propose the same rule on voting.
Or even on getting an abortion
Oh how they would howl
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: RoadKingLarry on July 02, 2022, 10:08:34 AM
As I mentioned earlier-
They made their ruling, now let's see them enforce it.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on July 02, 2022, 10:34:00 AM


NAGR Files Class Action Lawsuit Following California AG’s Disclosure of Gun Owners’ Personal Information
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/nagr-files-class-action-lawsuit-following-california-ags-disclosure-of-gun-owners-personal-information/
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on July 02, 2022, 03:36:59 PM
California's new back door strategy (SB918) is to allow shall issue, but basically ban carry most everywhere, including public sidewalks. Reno May also mentions the section about psych evals and that they can only be done by a shrink approved by the state for CCW evaluation. There are apparently very, very few of these, like one per county, which could put someone on a year or longer waiting list just to finish their application, let alone the wait time once the application is submitted.

8:00 in the video is where he lists the places SB918 makes CC illegal.

https://youtu.be/DbVuYvSorKo
I heard someone comment that the conditions from the ruling may apply to all these restrictions also.  There will be lawsuits.  That is the only guarantee.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Jim147 on July 02, 2022, 03:49:10 PM
I heard someone comment that the conditions from the ruling may apply to all these restrictions also.  There will be lawsuits.  That is the only guarantee.

Yep, let's put the same restrictions on freedom of speech and voting and see what happens.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Ben on July 02, 2022, 03:54:31 PM
I heard someone comment that the conditions from the ruling may apply to all these restrictions also.  There will be lawsuits.  That is the only guarantee.

Yup, lawsuits for sure. IANAL, but I thought a large part of the SC ruling was eliminating these very unconstitutional roadblocks that CA is now setting up. I can't see any way this SB918 holds up in any court if it passes, which with the dem supermajority, it likely will.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on July 02, 2022, 04:41:05 PM
Yep, let's put the same restrictions on freedom of speech and voting and see what happens.

No matter what people are saying now (and I agree that is ruling is a still a great victory) the Second is still a second-class right... until all permits and licenses are struck down, along with all gun bans.

I wish the court had said that requiring a license or permit for a right is unconstitutional.... like they held in Murdock v. Pennsylvania:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murdock_v._Pennsylvania
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: WLJ on July 02, 2022, 04:50:16 PM
Apparently NY wants to require a list of your social media accounts to get a permit

UNBELIEVABLE! New Law Demands Social Media Accounts & Makes It Illegal To Carry Basically Anywhere!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoLumxiTphg

List of places where you can't carry in the bill

Quote

    If the bill is approved, guns would be banned from modes of public transportation, such as subways and buses, and from schools, shelters, government buildings, poll sites, places of worship, health facilities, establishments that serve alcohol, libraries, day cares, zoos, museums, theaters and stadiums, public playgrounds and parks.

    Other sensitive locations where firearms would be prohibited include Times Square, a popular tourist destination in Manhattan.

    There will also be a “presumption” statewide that firearms are not welcome inside private businesses unless the property owner explicitly states otherwise with a clearly visible sign.
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/07/01/two-very-big-problems-with-new-yorks-new-concealed-carry-restrictions-n59981
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: gunsmith on July 02, 2022, 05:33:35 PM
 support your local and national groups fighting against these silly restrictions,  most will not pass the history/tradition/text test anyway.

 for instance, your regular citizen in 1790 - did they require his neighbors report his church attendance or lack of it in order buy or carry a gun?
( social media )
what were sensitive areas in 1790?

I'm picking 1790 because it was soon after the cotus was ratified,  all these silly roadblocks will not pass the test
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on July 02, 2022, 08:10:43 PM
support your local and national groups fighting against these silly restrictions,  most will not pass the history/tradition/text test anyway.


Virtually no gun control would pass that test.  There was basically no gun restrictions in early USA that applied to citizens.  It's not going to happen, unfortunately.  I would love to see the NFA die, but is is wishful thinking.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: MechAg94 on July 02, 2022, 11:17:30 PM
Virtually no gun control would pass that test.  There was basically no gun restrictions in early USA that applied to citizens.  It's not going to happen, unfortunately.  I would love to see the NFA die, but is is wishful thinking.
I heard someone say the "common use" test still applies.  They didn't think NFA would get past that, but perhaps parts of it or other things.  I assume the gun rights groups will start with the various state restrictions. 
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 03, 2022, 12:48:18 AM
support your local and national groups fighting against these silly restrictions,  most will not pass the history/tradition/text test anyway.

 for instance, your regular citizen in 1790 - did they require his neighbors report his church attendance or lack of it in order buy or carry a gun?
( social media )
what were sensitive areas in 1790?

I'm picking 1790 because it was soon after the cotus was ratified,  all these silly roadblocks will not pass the test

The 2A wasn't ratified until 1791, but you're close.
Title: Re: tenterhooks/NYSRPA scotus case
Post by: Pb on July 03, 2022, 08:32:37 AM
I heard someone say the "common use" test still applies. 

Yeah.  The "common use" test is utter bullcrap.

1) It is not in the amendment.  It is an invention to justify banning MGs.
2) All case law and all commentary on what weapons we have a right to own, from early America, up through Miller, specifically say we have a right to own military weapons.  Many cases and commentators said there was no right own civilian weapons (mainly Bowie knives)… everybody said military weapons were protected, even cannons.
3) It is a circular argument.  Machine guns are not in common use because they are banned.  It is okay to ban them because they are not in common use.
4) Machine guns are in "common use" with militaries and official militias around the world anyway.  Therefore we have a right to own them.
5) The Second Amendment was meant to be a counterweight to abuse of the people by the the standing army, and "select militias" (ie, the National Guard).  Early commentary said Americans have a right own military weapons to prevent abuses by the standing armies.
6) The "common use" test allows the government to ban any new type of gun.  The federal government could have banned metallic cartridges when they were first invented, and we be stuck right now with only muzzleloaders.  That would pass the "common use" test.



"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." (Tench Coxe in ‘Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution' under the Pseudonym ‘A Pennsylvanian' in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 col. 1)

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American.... [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." (Tench Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.)

If you could go back in time, and tell James Madison and the rest that the Federal government in 2022 would throw a citizen in prison for owning a military rifle they would be horrified.

I'm just venting here.  I know it is pointless.