Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: WLJ on May 02, 2022, 10:01:34 PM
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The Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito and obtained by POLITICO.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Alito writes. https://t.co/nl3JFLx9xg
BOMBSHELL: POLITICO reports SCOTUS has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade according to leaked draft opinion by Justice Alito
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/02/bombshell-politico-reports-scotus-has-voted-to-strike-down-roe-v-wade-according-to-leaked-draft-opinion-by-justice-alito/
— POLITICO (@politico) May 3, 2022
If true who leak it? I got some suspicions
This is the first time in modern history that the public has seen a Supreme Court draft decision while a case was still pending. https://t.co/s9XOFDKRPp
— POLITICO (@politico) May 3, 2022
Meanwhile get ready for some major fire works
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Meanwhile get ready for some major fire works
I'm sure the protests will be fiery but mostly peaceful.
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I'll need to read the decision before I can comment too much. That said, I'll be surprised if the current Congress doesn't push to increase the number of justices to 15 in response to this ruling. They'll push to get all six new seats filled while Joe is in the Oval Office, and try to carry a 10-5 liberal majority into the foreseeable future. And that's a real threat to our 2A rights.
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I'll need to read the decision before I can comment too much. That said, I'll be surprised if the current Congress doesn't push to increase the number of justices to 15 in response to this ruling. They'll push to get all six new seats filled while Joe is in the Oval Office, and try to carry a 10-5 liberal majority into the foreseeable future. And that's a real threat to our 2A rights.
Like any of this matters. This *expletive deleted*it went off the rails when elections stopped mattering. The rest is seating arrangements on doomed a ocean liner.
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And that's a real threat to our 2A rights.
Not just the 2nd.
The left firmly believes in "common sense" restrictions on all rights.
Look at the hell they're giving Musk over free speech.
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There is no proof the alleged writing is true or even recent. Just another attempt by the Demomedia to stir up the cretins before the midterms. I think we can expect a lot of this propaganda as well as more attempts to replace facts with propaganda.
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There is no proof the alleged writing is true or even recent. Just another attempt by the Demomedia to stir up the cretins before the midterms. I think we can expect a lot of this propaganda as well as more attempts to replace facts with propaganda.
Very reason why I titled this "being reported"
It very well could be an attempt to stir up trouble
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https://www.dailywire.com/news/leak-of-scotus-draft-on-roe-v-wade-stuns-nation-this-leak-is-the-gravest-most-unforgivable-sin
If the leak is real, this does bring up some serious issues. I can't remember hearing of a leak from the SC.
SCOTUSblog: “It’s impossible to overstate the earthquake this will cause inside the Court, in terms of the destruction of trust among the Justices and staff. This leak is the gravest, most unforgivable sin.”
If true, I think this is better in the long run. Push that issue back to the state level and/or force parties to push actual legislation.
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As mentioned, I’ve never heard of a leak on SCOTUS decisions ahead of official release. If this is a legit draft decision the justices will probably fire every last clerk and staffer if they can’t identify the culprit(s). Any justice that refused to do so would be presumed a collaborator and not trusted with anything ever again.
My money would be on Jackson (and/or her clerks/staff) as the leak source. She’s so new she probably doesn’t fully appreciate the magnitude of the betrayal.
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While some remained skeptical that the leak is a real draft, SCOTUSblog tweeted Monday night that the document is "almost certainly" authentic:
Many observers, pundits, and even Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) speculated that the leak came from a liberal clerk who sought to add pressure to the situation — either for a conservative justice to change their vote or to spur Congress to work on legislation that would again create a "right" to abortion before SCOTUS can overturn that right it previously created.
Supreme Court to Overturn Roe v. Wade According to Leaked Draft Opinion
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2022/05/02/rare-scotus-leak-shows-majority-opinion-overturning-roe-v-wade-n2606645
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T.O.M. called it. The Left will be calling for packing the court over the summer.
I'm particularly intrigued by this though (if true):
Liberal justices seem likely to take issue with Alito’s assertion in the draft opinion that overturning Roe would not jeopardize other rights the courts have grounded in privacy, such as the right to contraception, to engage in private consensual sexual activity and to marry someone of the same sex.
“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito writes. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”
Alito’s draft opinion rejects the idea that abortion bans reflect the subjugation of women in American society. “Women are not without electoral or political power,” he writes. “The percentage of women who register to vote and cast ballots is consistently higher than the percentage of men who do so.”
source: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/02/supreme-court-abortion-draft-opinion-00029473
I'm not sure I like the notion of the Court discriminating between various un-enumerated rights having greater or lesser standing. Or singling them out.
All in all, I like Alito's alleged decision here. I consider this a 10th Amendment issue. Nothing in the Constitution addresses abortion. The several States are then empowered to address the issue, or not, as is their prerogative. With State lines being largely irrelevant due to air and car travel, one just needs access to a neighboring State which offers access to abortion in order to sate one's need for the service.
Leave it in the "Laboratories of Democracy." It'll get ironed out over several generations. Alito is correct to cite the variety of State level legislation on the issue, prohibiting it. Though it's unlikely the counter-argument is supported by corresponding deliberate legislation which supports abortion. A proper rebuttal to his argument would be to cite the absence of similar legislation, per time period covered of each State proscription, as a ratio. I.E. from 1800 to 1860, 33% of States had laws prohibiting abortion while 67% had no such law, making the practice legal (obviously this is a made up statistic here). I still must fundamentally side with the notion of that which is not expressly prohibited, MUST BE expressly tolerated. Including abortion.
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As someone who has to deal daily with clueless people who know that they are SO much smarter than all those horrible deplorables, I'm sort of hoping that they actually declare some sort of open war. With what I'm hearing from a LOT of POC, they're going to get their asses handed to them on several fronts.
Edited: i hz tiping skizz of orang.
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The babies did not kill themselves
Not surprising. But still outrageous.
This decision is a direct assault on the dignity, rights, & lives of women, not to mention decades of settled law. It will kill and subjugate women even as a vast majority of Americans think abortion should be legal. What an utter disgrace. https://t.co/TNo1IX3Tl4
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) May 3, 2022
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2022/05/02/leftists-praise-completely-destroying-supreme-court-norms-praise-destructive-leak-as-heroic-n2606652
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Wow. This would be bad. To explain:
If this leaked alleged ruling is true, I would, given my own philosophical beliefs, consider the ruling itself good.
I would consider it bad for people in the short term, whether leaked or not, in the sense that if you thought the antifa and related violence last Summer was bad, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
I consider this bad for the country in that if this was leaked out of the SC, how do we again trust the integrity of the court? This is just like the deep state stuff that went on under Trump. Leaked information to the MSM and big tech resulting in attacks by the "unbiased" media against something the left doesn't like (notice these leaks never happen with stuff the left is in favor of?). Even though this is allegedly a February draft, it's interesting that it leaked just after a new liberal justice and her employees entered the SC. I actually don't believe a Justice, regardless of their politics, would do this. It's almost certainly a woke intern or similar.
There's also a chance that this is just like the Trump "dossier" that was leaked to the lamebrain Daily Beast. Somebody suckered lamebrain Politico in the same way with something fake. I would actually prefer this to the alternative of someone within the SC leaking a real document.
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Some finger pointing at a clerk for Justice Sonia Sotomayor
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/03/big-if-true-people-are-pointing-fingers-at-this-supreme-court-justice-sonia-sotomayor-clerk-in-relation-to-scotus-leak/
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Funny but sad we've come to this
‘So, women are a thing again?’: People have noticed that libs like Nancy Pelosi and Eric Swalwell are not using ‘birthing people’ while discussing Roe
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/05/03/so-women-are-a-thing-again-people-have-noticed-that-libs-like-nancy-pelosi-and-eric-swalwell-are-not-using-birthing-people-while-discussing-roe/
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It's on ABC Good Morning America, so either It's true or one of the biggest news broadcasters got duped.
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It's on ABC Good Morning America, so either It's true or one of the biggest news broadcasters got duped.
The Trump Dossier made it to all the big outlets after the Daily Beast leak as well.
On further thought, if this is a real leak, I think an appropriate punishment should be life in prison. Even though it often leans one way or another, the SC is supposed to be the one sacred and unbiased arm of the government that separates itself from administrations and congressional majorities and current opinion of citizens. Punishment for breaking that trust should be severe. The clerk mentioned in WLJ's post seems to have a history and likely should have never made it past any background checks.
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It's on ABC Good Morning America, so either It's true or one of the biggest news broadcasters got duped.
I read that SCOTUS confirmed the leak. It was just a rough draft, though, not a final decision.
Related: there are now fencing and crowd control devices installed around SCOTUS.
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Wow. This would be bad.
Yes, very bad, but not for the reasons you said.
There will be protests and violence by the usual groups, but the long term effects of the decision could have far-reaching legal consequences.
We need to wait for the verdict and the legal reasonings to learn the "why," but my understanding of Roe v Wade is that the SCOTUS ruling was based on privacy, not strictly abortion. If today's SCOTUS changes a ruling about privacy, that may affect everyone, birthers and non-birthers alike.
Again, it is too soon to get worked up, but this could stir up a bunch of legal issues.
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Some finger pointing at a clerk for Justice Sonia Sotomayor
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/03/big-if-true-people-are-pointing-fingers-at-this-supreme-court-justice-sonia-sotomayor-clerk-in-relation-to-scotus-leak/
So maybe, just maybe, the "Wise Latina" was a little short of wisdom when it came to hiring staffers. I'm sure Biden's SCOTUS pick will see this and learn from it.
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To be honest, given the emotions surrounding the subject, I'd not at all be surprised if this leak was at the behest, or at least with the blessing of, one of the liberals on the court.
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To be honest, given the emotions surrounding the subject, I'd not at all be surprised if this leak was at the behest, or at least with the blessing of, one of the liberals on the court.
When I said I had some suspicions that's what I was thinking
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The Trump Dossier made it to all the big outlets after the Daily Beast leak as well.
On further thought, if this is a real leak, I think an appropriate punishment should be life in prison. Even though it often leans one way or another, the SC is supposed to be the one sacred and unbiased arm of the government that separates itself from administrations and congressional majorities and current opinion of citizens. Punishment for breaking that trust should be severe. The clerk mentioned in WLJ's post seems to have a history and likely should have never made it past any background checks.
I am listening to a Rekieta Law stream from last night. The guy on with him said that being an SC Clerk is an automatic muti-hundred $K per year job and signing bonus afterward as the pool of people selected for that job is small. He thinks Chief Justice Roberts (even though he is likely in the miniority) will try to nail them to a wall. Even if they can't find charges to file, they will disbar them and their legal life is dead.
Interesting to see where this goes. Also interesting to see how this draft differs from the final draft.
Ben Shapiro had an opinion up that he thinks the draft is real. He thinks the style of writing fits Alito.
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Yes, very bad, but not for the reasons you said.
There will be protests and violence by the usual groups, but the long term effects of the decision could have far-reaching legal consequences.
We need to wait for the verdict and the legal reasonings to learn the "why," but my understanding of Roe v Wade is that the SCOTUS ruling was based on privacy, not strictly abortion. If today's SCOTUS changes a ruling about privacy, that may affect everyone, birthers and non-birthers alike.
Again, it is too soon to get worked up, but this could stir up a bunch of legal issues.
Unable to show concrete reliance on Roe and Casey them- selves, the Solicitor General suggests that overruling those decisions would “threaten the Court's precedents holding. that the Due Process Clause protects other rights.” Brief for United States as Amicus Curiae 26 (citing Obergefell v. Hodges, 576 U. 8. 644 (2015); Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U. S. 558 (2008); Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U. S. 479 (1965)). That is not correct for reasons we have already discussed. As even the Casey plurality recognized, “[abortion is a unique act” because it terminates “life or potential life.” 505 U.S, at 852; see also Roe, 410 U. 8., at 159 (abortion is “inherently different from marital intimacy,” “marriage,” or “procreation”). And to ensure that our decision is not misunderstood or mischaracterized, we emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right. Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.
They appear to be trying to get ahead of that.
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Do any of you think Amber Heard had anything to do with the leak? This has effectively taken that trial off the news headlines. =D :laugh: Probably not.
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On the other side, I wondered if someone might be trying to affect the election, but this opinion should have been issued by this summer so it would come out before the election anyway. I can't see why this would be leaked except to 1) influence a Justice to change their vote, or 2) just someone foolish who talks too much and leaked an old draft.
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I think it would have more advantageous for the dems for the leak to have occurred right before the election giving less time for emotions to subside
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Do any of you think Amber Heard had anything to do with the leak? This has effectively taken that trial off the news headlines. =D :laugh: Probably not.
Even knocked Ukraine off the front page on BBCnews.com
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To be honest, given the emotions surrounding the subject, I'd not at all be surprised if this leak was at the behest, or at least with the blessing of, one of the liberals on the court.
To add to this, an important point to consider, IMO, is that this is really not about Roe v Wade and abortion, but any subject "X" that creates high emotions, and the integrity of the SC and its ability to operate in a trusted manner.
While it's very early, emotions are high, and the MSM needs hyperbolic stories, it's interesting to see that secondary fallout from this is the news suddenly going from "Republicans steamrolling the 2022 elections" to a potential dem comeback, specifically because of abortion. Kinda makes you want to put on the tinfoil and think about all the potential players, in and out of the SC.
Edit: I see several posts mentioned elections as I was typing. :)
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Oh, apropos of absolutely nothing, I see that insurrections are patriotic again.
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This could also be the Dems "October Surprise". Even if not planned that way, it will still have an affect on the mid-terms, likely giving the Dems a boost.
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I think it would have more advantageous for the dems for the leak to have occurred right before the election giving less time for emotions to subside
I am thinking that also. For election effects, it would have been better to wait for the actual decision to come out. May is pretty early for an election surprise. All the primaries aren't even over.
The only thing I can imagine is if the final draft is more watered down and someone wanted to leak an earlier draft. That doesn't make as much sense.
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I am thinking that also. For election effects, it would have been better to wait for the actual decision to come out. May is pretty early for an election surprise. All the primaries aren't even over.
I suppose an Occam's razor is that if the leaker is anything like the woke, Ivy League 20-somethings we always see interviewed for their "bright, young opinion", he or she likely wasn't thinking strategically.
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This was posted an hour or two, if I got the times right, before the "leak" hit the news.
A message to Amazon staff said that the firm will pay up to $4,000 (£3,201) in travel expenses each year for treatments not available nearby.
Several other companies have announced plans that ensure staff have access to abortions.
Amazon will pay US staff travel expenses for abortions and other treatments
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61301911
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Expect attempts on right leaning justices lives
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Has a sitting Justice ever been removed from the bench?
If the leak is tied to a SCOTUS staffer, there could be several administrative layers between them and a Justice. Heads will roll, but it's unlikely a particular Justice will suffer any ill PR due to the separation. Unless, of course, someone could prove collusion.
If it's an intern, that's Justice-specific. I would expect any Justice in that situation to immediately and proactively lower the proverbial boom, and in the harshest way possible. Even if the Justice isn't actively complicit, not taking action implicates them in the scandal. It also evidences a lack of respect for SCOTUS sanctity and objective jurisprudence, an unfathomable attitude for a sitting Justice.
Brad
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I thought an SC Justice or any federal judge would have be removed via impeachment proceedings.
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Amit Jain, the intern for Sotomayor who's name is being bandied about as a potential leak source, appears to have some history of left wing-ism and a previous association with the reporter who broke the story. Interesting, yes, but still circumstantial, and then only barely. Anything else on background besides the stuff currently making social media rounds?
Brad
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Amit Jain, the intern for Sotomayor who's name is being bandied about as a potential leak source, appears to have some history of left wing-ism and a previous association with the reporter who broke the story. Interesting, yes, but still circumstantial, and then only barely. Anything else on background besides the stuff currently making social media rounds?
Brad
I'm not gonna call it on him at this point either, but even if innocent of this, his history should have been easily found in his background investigation and he should have never been given a job in the SC.
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Uggggh an abortion war, that's just what we need in 2022.
Maybe stirring up that old controversy will keep the public's mind off the fact that their standard of living is declining.
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I hope Roe v. Wade is struck down.
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Unbiased MSM:
Ian Millhiser
@imillhiser
Seriously, shout out to whoever the hero was within the Supreme Court who said “*expletive deleted*ck it! Let’s burn this place down.”
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....
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Uggggh an abortion war, that's just what we need in 2022.
Why not? We've had almost everything else this year, and it's only May.
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Even knocked Ukraine off the front page on BBCnews.com
<sarcasm>
I'm not saying Russians, but Russians did it.
</sarcasm>
Especially since they escalated their attack on Mariupol overnight.
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That repetition by one Justice that no right is absolute always irked me. While it is technically accurate (incarceration, execution, e.g.), it opens wide the door to limitless abrogation of all rights. Any and all whose "common sense" says we should all become moon-worshipers can shout that phrase in support of their position.
Ben is going to call this ridiculous, but look at the full implications of "no right is absolute" as stated by a Supreme Court Justice.
You can't think "community standards" on this one.
At some point, you have think: My rights may not be absolute, but a Supreme Court Judge should understand that no one (including themselves) should be deciding what limits should be placed on them. That is what makes them 'rights' rather than a privilege.
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Has a sitting Justice ever been removed from the bench?
No. Only 1 has had impeachment proceedings, but was not convicted and removed. That was Samuel Chase in 1805.
Abe Fortas resigned from SCOTUS in 1969 under threat of impeachment.
William O Douglas had 2 impeachment attempts made (1953 and 1970) but none were successful.
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Two things of note here
One the doc has been verified as authentic by Roberts but does NOT represents a decision by the SC or any final position of any member.
Two An investigation is being launched
BREAKING: Chief Justice John Roberts has directed the marshal of the Supreme Court to launch an investigation into the source of the leaked draft opinion overturning Roe v. Wade, which Roberts verified as an authentic document pic.twitter.com/vcq4lTY7bk
— John Kruzel (@johnkruzel) May 3, 2022
BREAKING: Chief Justice John Roberts directs marshal of the Supreme Court to launch investigation into SCOTUS leak of now-verified draft
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/03/breaking-chief-justice-john-roberts-directs-marshal-of-the-supreme-court-to-launch-investigation-into-scotus-leak-of-now-verified-draft/
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On further thought, if this is a real leak, I think an appropriate punishment should be life in prison.
I'm not sure there's a statute that clearly applies for even a slap on the wrist, let alone real prison time. This stuff isn't classified.
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I'm not sure there's a statute that clearly applies for even a slap on the wrist, let alone real prison time. This stuff isn't classified.
I think you may be right from some other commentary I have heard. They probably could get the person disbarred which would be a pretty serious hit for an SC law clerk.
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I think you may be right from some other commentary I have heard. They probably could get the person disbarred which would be a pretty serious hit for an SC law clerk.
I would imagine there is some ethics clause in their licensing which addresses confidentiality, personal conduct, and professional integrity. Even if there isn't, for-cause dismissal from a SCOTUS internship carries it's own stigma.
Brad
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Quote from the SCOTUS public information statement: "Justices circulate draft opinions internally as a routine and essential part of the Court's confidential deliberative work."
That would seem to imply there is, at a minimum, an internal rules process that the leaker broke. Given that the Chief Justice has directed the Marshal of the Court to investigate, that would also imply the leaker will face consequences should they be found out.
US Code 18 U.S.C 641 might apply for criminal prosecution if it is stretched a bit. It is typically taken to mean stealing or conveying government property to give to another outside agency or individual for monetary gain. But the way the word "convey" is used in the statute, it does not firmly imply the conveyance must be for monetary gain.
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Stigma for dismissal?
You think a law clerk dismissed for leaking this memo would NOT be hired in an eyeblink by any member of "The Squad," Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, or any of a number of other extreme leftists? Especially if they could somehow "spin" the dismissal in a way to satisfy their own constituency to make a claim of women's rights, racism, or something else along the same lines? I mean, there are ALREADY some media types cheering this person on. (See the link Ben included in his post around 11 or 12 places up.)
Disbarment would be a speed bump in the career path and close a number of doors - but maybe, just maybe, it wouldn't put the person into a food service career. ESPECIALLY if the leaker isn't a straight white male.
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The only thing I can imagine is if the final draft is more watered down and someone wanted to leak an earlier draft. That doesn't make as much sense.
My theory (that I have nothing to support) is that Roberts himself had it leaked in order to soften the blowback. He knows the votes are there and the reaction is going to be bad, no way around it. But this way, instead of having the singular flashpoint event of the final ruling being released, it's spread out. Now half the people are talking about the leak itself and who did it. It's also harder to protest something that hasn't actually happened yet so while there will be protests they won't be as bad. When the final ruling comes down and it's slightly watered down there will be protests again but people will have already had some time to accept it and be slightly less riotous. Less white hot rage heading right into the elections.
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Quote from the SCOTUS public information statement: "Justices circulate draft opinions internally as a routine and essential part of the Court's confidential deliberative work."
That would seem to imply there is, at a minimum, an internal rules process that the leaker broke. Given that the Chief Justice has directed the Marshal of the Court to investigate, that would also imply the leaker will face consequences should they be found out.
Given some of the wording, do we think this opinion represents something that will make it to the final ruling? I can't imagine why anyone would bother to leak it if is wasn't representative of the final ruling. Can any of you think of any other good reason someone would do that?
Thanks for answering ahead of time DittoHead. =)
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Apparently this isn't the first time there have been leaks from the Supreme Court...
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-leaks-are-rare-but-not-unprecedented
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If this going to be the final decision from SCOTUS, I can see a whole lot of interstate travel rights cases in the future.
I.e. Oklahoma creates a law to ban citizens of Oklahoma from seeking an abortion from a state where it is legal or Oklahoma can fine a doctor in an abortion legal state for performing an abortion on a citizen of Oklahoma.
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If this going to be the final decision from SCOTUS, I can see a whole lot of interstate travel rights cases in the future.
I.e. Oklahoma creates a law to ban citizens of Oklahoma from seeking an abortion from a state where it is legal or Oklahoma can fine a doctor in an abortion legal state for performing an abortion on a citizen of Oklahoma.
More likely, the abortion-friendly states will pull the usual theater of banning official travel to the non-murdery states, the NCAA will refuse to hold championship games in those states, etc. At least for a while. Or until AOC turns up in Florida again.
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Can't wait to read Disney's corporate statement on this one.... >:D
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Can't wait to read Disney's corporate statement on this one.... >:D
Mickey is getting an abortion
(https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/cb042622dAPR20220425094556.jpg)
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If this going to be the final decision from SCOTUS, I can see a whole lot of interstate travel rights cases in the future.
I.e. Oklahoma creates a law to ban citizens of Oklahoma from seeking an abortion from a state where it is legal or Oklahoma can fine a doctor in an abortion legal state for performing an abortion on a citizen of Oklahoma.
That would meddle with interstate commerce.
And honestly, that WOULD start getting to the phase of Handmaid's Tale, with border inspections and arrests of pregnant women.
I think the way to control it from the most "legal" way possible without running afoul of interstate commerce issues or going full-on Gilead or Taliban, is to ban insurance in your State from offering coverage of abortion procedures, while simultaneously outlawing the practice in your State entirely.
Honestly I'm kind of surprised that medical fee schedules weren't consulted as a form of ad-hoc legitimacy of a particular procedure in this case, especially since Alito in particular was interested in any form of cultural tradition of abortion as a right, or local/regional/state laws that expressed favor or disapproval of the practice. Aside from abortion, which has a slew of procedure codes (which I'm sure MillCreek can cite), another touchy and controversial medical procedure is euthanasia or physician assisted suicide. Illegal most places, and shares a similar trait with abortion in that it isn't expressly listed as an illegal act... it falls under the general umbrella of homicide by means of arguing against a person's own agency. It's a polar opposite, where in abortion the concern is about autonomy of the mother over the fetus vs the rights of the fetus, while euthanasia is about the autonomy of the patient and fitness of mind to make such a decision.
If insurance covers one of those, and no one is prosecuted for the act, then it is arguably legal in that particular State.
Isn't it Oregon that legalized euthanasia a few years ago? Oregon fee schedules should have a CPT code for that procedure, then. Or I guess it's possible that insurers consider it distasteful or don't offer it on their fee schedule contract even if it is legal. But let's say it isn't legal in MillCreek's home of Washington. There should be no CPT code for euthanasia for a Cigna fee schedule in Washington then, picking one insurer at random for example. But there would be such a euthanasia CPT code in Oregon.
And at the final analysis, at the federal level: There's no law banning abortion at the federal level, no felony charges or sentencing guidelines, etc. Medicare and Medicaid have abortion listed as legitimate procedure codes for a doctor to perform and receive compensation from the government (granted there are Hyde amendment exemptions for compensation, but no criminality for the procedure itself).
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If this going to be the final decision from SCOTUS, I can see a whole lot of interstate travel rights cases in the future.
I.e. Oklahoma creates a law to ban citizens of Oklahoma from seeking an abortion from a state where it is legal or Oklahoma can fine a doctor in an abortion legal state for performing an abortion on a citizen of Oklahoma.
Are there any historical precedents for that kind of law?
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If SCOTUS finds there is no federal right to an abortion and leaves it up to the states, it will be interesting to see which states permit them and which forbid them. I have already seen media that Oregon and Washington will permit, and I assume California will.
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If SCOTUS finds there is no federal right to an abortion and leaves it up to the states, it will be interesting to see which states permit them and which forbid them. I have already seen media that Oregon and Washington will permit, and I assume California will.
Oregon already said something regarding both welcoming, and complaining about, Idaho women going to OR for abortions because of our new law here in ID (currently blocked by a court).
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If SCOTUS finds there is no federal right to an abortion and leaves it up to the states, it will be interesting to see which states permit them and which forbid them. I have already seen media that Oregon and Washington will permit, and I assume California will.
The left coast, most of the northeastern states and IL, CO and probably a few others will probably go whole hog into abortion on demand up to (and likely for some time past) natural birth. Most of fly-over country will ban it from the moment of conception, and some purple states will allow it up to some number of weeks or viability outside the womb.
In the mean time expect a big push for a law prohibiting abortion restrictions to come out of DC. We know Murky and Collins will vote for that. Hard to say what Manchin, Tester and Sinema would do. Moot point if the filibuster is retained for such matters, but I wouldn’t count on the Dems not nuking that.
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The left coast, most of the northeastern states and IL, CO and probably a few others will probably go whole hog into abortion on demand up to (and likely for some time past) natural birth.
Colorado's governor has been making noises about ensuring the legality of abortion in that state.
Re banning abortion restrictions at the Federal level: pretty sure that wouldn't pass Constitutional muster.
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Murky and Collins have already written a bill. Chucky is trying to get it worked in with the one the house passed and get enough votes for it.
They knew this day was coming. They had over fifty years to do something.
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Are there any historical precedents for that kind of law?
Loving vs Virgina
Interracial marriage, Lovings were citizens of Virgina and got married outside Virgina and Virgina had laws on their books in regard to interracial marriage being illegal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia
The Lovings were charged under Section 20-58 of the Virginia Code, which prohibited interracial couples from being married out of state and then returning to Virginia, and Section 20-59, which classified miscegenation as a felony, punishable by a prison sentence of between one and five years.
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Loving vs Virginia
Interracial marriage, Lovings were citizens of Virginia and got married outside Virginia and Virginia had laws on their books in regard to interracial marriage being illegal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia
Anyone pulls that out as a precedent in favor of outlawing abortion and prosecuting interstate travelers is in for a BAD time.
That one also falls afoul of the full faith and credit practice, and interstate license compact. Aside from using Jim Crow laws as your defense of your actions.
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I'll be curious how many people quit/boycott Amazon if the SCOTUS leek ends up being the final decision
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61301911
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Anyone pulls that out as a precedent in favor of outlawing abortion and prosecuting interstate travelers is in for a BAD time.
That one also falls afoul of the full faith and credit practice, and interstate license compact. Aside from using Jim Crow laws as your defense of your actions.
Neither political fringe has never really thought through full ramifications of their actions at times.
Mulitple news agencies have reported repeatedly today that 68% of Americans favor some sort of legal abortions. (find your own salt)
I know, fringe for some people is where the weaving starts. [popcorn]
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Neither political fringe has never really thought through full ramifications of their actions at times.
My initial reaction to your post was to press X to doubt.
But as I thought it through, I could see some states passing that kind of law knowing full well it will be shot down on appeal, but that way they can be seen as doing something.
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Neither political fringe has never really thought through full ramifications of their actions at times.
Mulitple news agencies have reported repeatedly today that 68% of Americans favor some sort of legal abortions. (find your own salt)
I know, fringe for some people is where the weaving starts. [popcorn]
I believe that. I think that if you asked a bunch of Americans "Do you think Abortion should be legal in cases of incest, and where the mom's health is in danger?" or some version of that 68% of folks would say yes.
I don't talk to a lot of folks about this, but outside of the Pro-Life absolutists, most people I see IRL and do discuss it with aren't particularly against the non surgical versions of abortions. Those are up to what, 8 or 9 weeks? I know some folks are against them, and I'm not starting that argument, I'm just saying I could buy the 68% number.
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My initial reaction to your post was to press X to doubt.
But as I thought it through, I could see some states passing that kind of law knowing full well it will be shot down on appeal, but that way they can be seen as doing something.
Totes the goats.
I also ready know that if the leaked document matches the final decsion, you can add Iowa to the list of 100% ban on abortions and our Governor will run on that this fall on her reelection campaign. Same with any GOP state rep or senator incumbent/challenger.
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If I had to guess DeSantis won't run that. He'll sit on the law he just passed and let the Dem run on killing all the kids all the time. But Ron has surprised me before.
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"Do you think Abortion should be legal in cases of incest, and where the mom's health is in danger?" or some version of that 68% of folks would say yes.
I'm willing to bet that if you add in "before "X" weeks, that combination is a large part of the 68%. I bet (hope, really) that the tik tok morons who get all the attention and who hold abortion parties and pop champagne after their "instead of birth control" abortions are a smaller number of the percentage.
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I'm willing to bet that if you add in "before "X" weeks, that combination is a large part of the 68%. I bet (hope, really) that the tik tok morons who get all the attention and who hold abortion parties and pop champagne after their "instead of birth control" abortions are a smaller number of the percentage.
Agreed. I was thinking about how I would ask that question if I wanted to show majority support for legal abortion, which I suspect media polls do.
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One might expect that if a particular form of child abuse was legal in half the states, the other states might well prosecute those who took their children across state lines* for the purpose.
What seems likely to happen, if some states take that approach to abortion, is that red-state women who think they might be pregnant, and might want to abort, would just keep quiet about it, and go to the nearest legal abortion clinic for a pregnancy test. Scratch that – they’ll get a free test from Planned Parenthood, or whatever local left-wing org is handing them out. If they test positive, they’ll also get a free ride to the aforementioned nearest legal abortion clinic, and maybe even a free abortion.
The point being, abortion won't be prosecuted, if no one knows there was a child there to begin with. 2-month pregnant girl goes to a neighboring state, and returns, and no one knows she was ever pregnant.
Predictions of police state tactics on behalf of the embryo-friendly states - why? Because Republicans have proven to be so adept at that sort of thing? Yeah, OK.
*Crossing state lines will become legal again!
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One might expect that if a particular form of child abuse was legal in half the states, the other states might well prosecute those who took their children across state lines* for the purpose.
Should it be acceptable for California to arrest and prosecute people that go over to Nevada or Arizona to buy a gas generator for their RV? Or gas powered lawn equipment, that has been made illegal to sell in California?
Beware empowering States to prosecute for behaviors outside their jurisdictions.
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Should it be acceptable for California to arrest and prosecute people that go over to Nevada or Arizona to buy a gas generator for their RV? Or gas powered lawn equipment, that has been made illegal to sell in California?
Beware empowering States to prosecute for behaviors outside their jurisdictions.
Or buying normal capacity magazines in a neighboring states, where as your home state only permits ownership of limited capacity magazines.
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Or buying normal capacity magazines in a neighboring states, where as your home state only permits ownership of limited capacity magazines.
The "68%" argument is the same as that used to say a majority support gun control also.
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The "68%" argument is the same as that used to say a majority support gun control also.
Apparently, you didn't see (find your own salt)
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What about the other end of the argument? We have already seen pro-abortion absolutists talk about killing unwanted babies after birth. It has happened in some places and been swept under the rug. I can see one or two states pass something like that. It would get murky if an anti-abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth-baby in another state. Usually murder is jurisdictional so I don't see how that would work.
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Apparently, you didn't see (find your own salt)
Wasn't meant as a criticism. Just a comment since this is all hypothetical. =)
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IMO, the most likely interstate court case will be groups like Planned Parenthood recruiting pregnant women in a ban state to get the abortions done in another state and ban states trying to stop it. I am assuming Planned Parenthood will not close down their clinics in Texas. Leftists lawyers will be looking for loopholes and that will trigger legislative reactions in ban states.
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Loving vs Virgina
Interracial marriage, Lovings were citizens of Virgina and got married outside Virgina and Virgina had laws on their books in regard to interracial marriage being illegal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia
I've met Philip Hirschkop a couple of times. Very interesting man, and still incredibly active. We've been trying to get him to speak at our County History Conference for a couple of years now.
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Ordinarily, I'd be annoyed that people take "this will happen" to mean, "I want this to happen." But, hey, you got it right this time!
There's a very specific reason I referred to child abuse, and not some other crime. I could have also used the example of taking one's wife to a state where it's legal to have her forcibly sterilized. These are situations where people could commit serious crimes against members of their own families, w/o consequences, by simply taking them to states where horrific things are legal. Not much comparison there, to buying magazines or fireworks, or whatever. Mala in se, etc.
Are we OK with having The Purge states, where anyone can go to commit egregious crimes? This is far from hypothetical. What does Texas do if someone takes a child across state lines to "transition" them, and brings them back (because it's child abuse there now)? What did the U.S. do about slaves crossing state lines to become free? See the fugitive slave laws, and the Dred Scott decision.
But, like I said, even if it's perfectly reasonable to prosecute people for taking their children out of state to kill them, that doesn't mean it can be enforced.
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No one's talking about one of the other possible side effects if this passes...
A huge increase in inter-state secession movements.
Northern Virginia is incredibly left leaning, much of the rest of the state is very conservative.
Southern California is Stalin's own heaven on earth; central and especially Northern California? Very conservative.
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What about the other end of the argument? We have already seen pro-abortion absolutists talk about killing unwanted babies after birth. It has happened in some places and been swept under the rug. I can see one or two states pass something like that. It would get murky if an anti-abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth-baby in another state. Usually murder is jurisdictional so I don't see how that would work.
It would get murky if a PRO abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth baby in another state. I'm sure there are several states that would institute pro-abortion laws for some pre-birth term, but consider aborting a born baby murder.
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Without trying to step in too much controversy: Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?
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Without trying to step in too much controversy: Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?
https://slate.com/technology/2012/03/after-birth-abortion-the-pro-choice-case-for-infanticide.html
https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/
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Without trying to step in too much controversy: Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?
To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States? I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings. I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/
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https://slate.com/technology/2012/03/after-birth-abortion-the-pro-choice-case-for-infanticide.html
https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/
Thanks for those links. I wish it wasn't something that has come up, but unfortunately it has.
I would also note for posterity that the whole Ralph Northam "black face" scandal hit the news 2 or 3 days after that interview hit the news. The fact that Northam was talking about post-birth abortion hit the national news, then suddenly this other information was released and ALL the national news media switched over to that story almost instantly. The abortion scandal was buried. It was almost as if someone wanted that abortion comment out of the news and were willing to throw Northam under the bus and embarrass the new Virginia Dem Majority to do it.
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To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States? I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings. I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/
1. When Obama was running for President the first time, there was a Chicago area hospital that was accused of doing that while Mrs. Obama was on their board of directors. What I remember is if an abortion was unsuccessful and the baby was still alive after removal, they would sit it in a closet and come back later when it was no longer alive. Don't remember much else. It never got much traction in the news. I think it was only made public because people at the Hospital complained. It was only certain doctors doing it.
2. There a law someone proposed in one of the states that was supposed to not only allow late term abortions out to 9 months, but specifically prohibited law enforcement from even investigating the issue if there was a complaint.
https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=66291.msg1346368#msg1346368
It was Maryland. It was worse than I thought.
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I could see myself being able to compromise on the abortion issue a bit in a sane world, but seeing some of these radicals being willing to go right over the line to infanticide makes me say no. Can't compromise with that. Yes, they are just radicals, but they are the ones who keep pushing and demand more compromises just like other issues. It honestly makes me wonder what they do or want that I don't know about. I hate to go down that rabbit hole.
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Suddenly horse medicine is okay
Motherboard suggests women wanting to induce abortions could take horse medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/03/motherboard-suggests-women-wanting-to-induce-abortions-could-take-horse-medicine/
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Democrats Enraged They May Have To Drive A Few Hours To Commit Murder
https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-enraged-they-may-have-to-drive-a-few-hours-to-commit-murder
"A five-hour round trip just to be able to murder a baby? Does the oppression never end?" cried Senator Warren, surrounded by protesters. "No woman should ever have to fill up with gas in order to meet a hitman!"
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Democrats have vowed to fight tirelessly to ensure murder will remain as easy as possible. "It doesn't matter what it takes, even if it means an insurrection to overthrow the judiciary—whatever we have to do so kids can have their skulls crushed without too much hassle," said Senator Klobuchar.
:laugh: :rofl:
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To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States? I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.
I don't see the point of your question. Do we wait until babies are being discarded like in ancient Sparta before taking action to ban such atrocities? Advocacy is the first step; implementation is the next.
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To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States? I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings. I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/
What about a day or a week before birth? I guess the points are that everyone has some cutoff from "zero" to "after birth". Individual state laws will certainly get interesting regarding the spectrum.
Jeremy at The Quartering actually made a couple of good points. In that before these sicko tik tok chicks that have contests to see who can have the most abortions, we had, "legal, safe and rare". While the abortion debate was certainly still contentious then as well, it was sort of working under the "don't ask, don't tell" tent. I think that a lot of pro-life people were working with "what I don't see..." because they weren't being smacked in the face by aborted babies. A lot of the pro life bills you see being passed by states now are a direct result of the, "loud and proud" aborters, IMO.
https://youtu.be/L1qrclBhB1g
And for some of the sickos he's referring to:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1521507103466164225
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Suddenly horse medicine is okay
Motherboard suggests women wanting to induce abortions could take horse medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/03/motherboard-suggests-women-wanting-to-induce-abortions-could-take-horse-medicine/
But ivermectin is still a no-no.
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Is this appropriate for this thread?
(https://i.imgur.com/WmvUt12.jpg?1)
Maybe this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/tEbPq5P.jpg)
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Suddenly horse medicine is okay
Motherboard suggests women wanting to induce abortions could take horse medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/03/motherboard-suggests-women-wanting-to-induce-abortions-could-take-horse-medicine/
Another great twitchy clickbait headline, but misoprostol has been around for decades in human medicine. It has a lot of gyn uses and was common to treat ulcers caused by NSAIDS. In recent years, it is probably best known as one of the medications used for a medical, as opposed to surgical, abortion.
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Another great twitchy clickbait headline, but misoprostol has been around for decades in human medicine.
What's the point? Ivermectin has been used in human medicine for decades as well. The MSM still calls it horse dewormer.
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An early read on which states will do what regarding abortion rights post-SCOTUS: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096062374/roe-v-wade-leak-opinion-abortion-supreme-court-states-rights-governor-document?utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR3CeRQAISi1elOmdRs8RrR9Z88sZ9MGaV3QeELBko-bd5eHWIRQ9P0prHY
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Have any of the legal talking heads weighed in yet on a review of the draft opinion and any holdings within that may apply to Second Amendment cases? Bearing in mind that the draft and the final may be two different things.
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Have any of the legal talking heads weighed in yet on a review of the draft opinion and any holdings within that may apply to Second Amendment cases? Bearing in mind that the draft and the final may be two different things.
Sorry. Busy day at work, and I just can't motivate myself to read this. At the courthouse, the lib crowd are talking passing laws, women's rights, etc. The conservatives are talking passing laws, children's rights, etc.
Then, the crazies on the ends. Left nuts talking about this being the first shot of the coming civil war (how many times have we heard that???) Right nuts talking about how this is a great first step on a path to restore Christian laws on the books, like outlawing sodomy, banning birth control, and outlawing LGTBQIAWXYZ. No joke, I heard one crazy lib woman talk about going gun shopping this weekend to buy an AR-47 for the upcoming war. Not 10 minutes later, I hear a crazy far right Catholic guy talking about how science has gotten to the point where a single supermarket cell can be developed into a human, so birth control and masturbation need to be outlawed now.
Gotta live the crazies in a courthiuse
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Sorry. Busy day at work, and I just can't motivate myself to read this. At the courthouse, the lib crowd are talking passing laws, women's rights, etc. The conservatives are talking passing laws, children's rights, etc.
Then, the crazies on the ends. Left nuts talking about this being the first shot of the coming civil war (how many times have we heard that???) Right nuts talking about how this is a great first step on a path to restore Christian laws on the books, like outlawing sodomy, banning birth control, and outlawing LGTBQIAWXYZ. No joke, I heard one crazy lib woman talk about going gun shopping this weekend to buy an AR-47 for the upcoming war. Not 10 minutes later, I hear a crazy far right Catholic guy talking about how science has gotten to the point where a single supermarket cell can be developed into a human, so birth control and masturbation need to be outlawed now.
Gotta live the crazies in a courthiuse
Clowns to the left of me. Jokers to the right
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And here I am......
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Sorry. Busy day at work, and I just can't motivate myself to read this. At the courthouse, the lib crowd are talking passing laws, women's rights, etc. The conservatives are talking passing laws, children's rights, etc.
Then, the crazies on the ends. Left nuts talking about this being the first shot of the coming civil war (how many times have we heard that???) Right nuts talking about how this is a great first step on a path to restore Christian laws on the books, like outlawing sodomy, banning birth control, and outlawing LGTBQIAWXYZ. No joke, I heard one crazy lib woman talk about going gun shopping this weekend to buy an AR-47 for the upcoming war. Not 10 minutes later, I hear a crazy far right Catholic guy talking about how science has gotten to the point where a single supermarket cell can be developed into a human, so birth control and masturbation need to be outlawed now.
Gotta live the crazies in a courthiuse
The trick is getting them to fight to the death and livestream it.. And then gas the victor. I don't want to live in either of those fuckatard's realities.
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Kind of makes you wonder do we flush the whole docket this year. Everything is tainted. I know they wouldn't but the liberal wing of the court needs to smash any future case when the inevitable court packing law gets to them. Two other branches can't do their jobs so instead try to lead the court by the nose.
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Source Of SCOTUS Leak Found To Be Swedish Supreme Court Janitor Hildur Clintonheim
https://babylonbee.com/news/source-of-scotus-leak-found-to-be-swedish-supreme-court-janitor-hildur-clintonheim
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How interesting that the Democratic Party, who remind us every day that the Republican Party is out to destroy democracy, are so upset about abortion law being returned to the purview of the people, instead of nine unelected legal scholars. Nine men, by the way.
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How interesting that the Democratic Party, who remind us every day that the Republican Party is out to destroy democracy, are so upset about abortion law being returned to the purview of the people, instead of nine unelected legal scholars. Nine men, by the way.
Did you just assume their gender? Can you even define “man”?
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https://slate.com/technology/2012/03/after-birth-abortion-the-pro-choice-case-for-infanticide.html
https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/
Thank you for answering my inquiry, appreciated.
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And for some of the sickos he's referring to:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1521507103466164225
A lot of those clips had a Jonathan Swift "A Modest Proposal" vibe to them. I wouldn't take them too seriously.
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Thanks for those links. I wish it wasn't something that has come up, but unfortunately it has.
I would also note for posterity that the whole Ralph Northam "black face" scandal hit the news 2 or 3 days after that interview hit the news. The fact that Northam was talking about post-birth abortion hit the national news, then suddenly this other information was released and ALL the national news media switched over to that story almost instantly. The abortion scandal was buried. It was almost as if someone wanted that abortion comment out of the news and were willing to throw Northam under the bus and embarrass the new Virginia Dem Majority to do it.
Same with Cuomo killing grand parents in nursing homes, and then boom, sex scandal and that's all they would talk about.
When you're about to be exposed for a big bad, reveal a little bad and use that to distract. Standard information/psychological warfare tactic.
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I'll be curious how many people quit/boycott Amazon if the SCOTUS leek ends up being the final decision
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61301911
Me. Working the issue right now. Gonna miss my Kindle Unlimited subscription. I sincerely hope some other retailer can up their online game. I shoulda done this long ago.
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Rep. Pramila Jayapal says that the Supreme Court doesn't have the right to overturn Roe vs Wade because it's "settled law."
Good to know that she believes that Plessy vs Ferguson shouldn't have been overturned, either, because it was also "settled law."
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And this is cute... Apparently Uncle Joe claims that Roe v Wade is aligned with all major religions...
https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-brutalized-over-incoherent-vile-claim-roe-line-all-basic-mainstream-religions
Yeah, he's catching a lot of flack for that. Maybe now the *expletive deleted*ing Catholic Church will actually excommunicate him?
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Kinda hard to find, but Joe has had an interesting evolution on the subject.
https://cnsnews.com/commentary/bill-donohue/year-year-breakdown-joe-bidens-abortion-flip-flop
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Maybe now the *expletive deleted*ing Catholic Church will actually excommunicate him?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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And this is cute... Apparently Uncle Joe claims that Roe v Wade is aligned with all major religions...
https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-brutalized-over-incoherent-vile-claim-roe-line-all-basic-mainstream-religions
Yeah, he's catching a lot of flack for that. Maybe now the *expletive deleted*ing Catholic Church will actually excommunicate him?
RCC in America is mainstream America now, which means, thoroughly part of the system. Outside of an occasional renegade priest or bishop, or ranty conservative publication, nobody will say a word.
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Sorry. Busy day at work, and I just can't motivate myself to read this. At the courthouse, the lib crowd are talking passing laws, women's rights, etc. The conservatives are talking passing laws, children's rights, etc.
Then, the crazies on the ends. Left nuts talking about this being the first shot of the coming civil war (how many times have we heard that???) Right nuts talking about how this is a great first step on a path to restore Christian laws on the books, like outlawing sodomy, banning birth control, and outlawing LGTBQIAWXYZ.
And I don't trust the "right-adjacent" theonomic types. Not one bit.
No joke, I heard one crazy lib woman talk about going gun shopping this weekend to buy an AR-47 for the upcoming war.
Before or after she tries to make it to Canadia over the unguarded back roads?
Not 10 minutes later, I hear a crazy far right Catholic guy talking about how science has gotten to the point where a single supermarket cell can be developed into a human, so birth control and masturbation need to be outlawed now.
Gotta live the crazies in a courthiuse
People seem to have a wildly overinflated idea of our actual technical capabilities right now.
These are people you work with?
Masturbation? Good luck with that.
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Me. Working the issue right now. Gonna miss my Kindle Unlimited subscription. I sincerely hope some other retailer can up their online game. I shoulda done this long ago.
I also wonder if states like Texas/Oklahoma will tell Amazon (and other companies with similar policies) to leave the state.
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I also wonder if states like Texas/Oklahoma will tell Amazon (and other companies with similar policies) to leave the state.
Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?
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Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?
A quick check shows that the US median age is 38, so I'm gonna say no.
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Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?
I was pretty young, definitely too young to worry about getting anyone pregnant when R v W passed. What was it like?
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Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?
Looks like abortion was legal only in a few states.
From the WIKI page on Roe Vs. Wade
History of abortion laws in the United States
In 1821, Connecticut passed the first state statute banning abortion in the United States.[13] In 1868, abortion by itself was not legal before quickening in 27 out of all thirty-seven states. Altogether, 30 of the thirty-seven states and six of the ten U.S. territories had codified laws which restricted abortion[14] along with the Kingdom of Hawai'i where abortion had once been common.[15][16] Every state had abortion legislation by 1900.[13]
In the United States, abortion itself was sometimes considered a common law offense before specific statutes were made against it.[17] In all states throughout the 19th and early 20th century, pre-quickening abortions were always considered to be actions without a lawful purpose. This meant that if the mother died, the individual performing the abortion was guilty of murder. This aspect of common law regarded pre-quickening abortions as a type of inchoate felony.[18] Negative liberty rights from common law do not apply in situations caused by consensual or voluntary behavior, which allowed for abortions of fetuses conceived in a consensual manner to be common law offences.[19] The majority opinion for Roe v. Wade authored in Justice Harry Blackmun's name would later claim that the criminalization of abortion did not have "roots in the English common-law tradition".[20]
Rose Fosco, who posed as a woman seeking an abortion during sting operations for the Chicago Police Department. As an undercover officer she worked to break up illegal abortion rings.[21]
One purpose for banning abortion was to preserve the life of the fetus,[22] another was to protect the life of the mother, another was to create deterrence against future abortions,[23] and another was avoid injuring the mother's ability to have children. Judges did not always distinguish between which purpose was more important.[24] Rather than arresting the women having the abortions, legal officials were more likely to interrogate them to obtain evidence against the individual doing the abortions.[25] This law enforcement strategy was a response to juries which refused to convict women prosecuted for abortion in the 19th century.[26] In 1973, Justice Harry Blackmun's opinion stated that "the restrictive criminal abortion laws in effect in a majority of States today are of relatively recent vintage".[27]
By 1971, elective abortion on demand was effectively available in Alaska, California, Washington, D.C., Washington state, Hawaii, and New York.[28] Some women traveled to jurisdictions where it was legal, although not all could afford to.[29] In 1971, Shirley Wheeler was charged with manslaughter after Florida hospital staff reported her illegal abortion to the police. Wheeler was one of few women who were prosecuted by their states for abortion.[30] She received a sentence of two years probation and as an option under her probation, chose to move back into her parents' house in North Carolina.[25] The Playboy Foundation donated $3,500 to her defense fund and Playboy magazine denounced her prosecution.[31] The Boston Women's Abortion Coalition raised money and held a rally where attendees listened to speakers from the Women's National Abortion Action Coalition (WONAAC).[32] Her conviction was overturned by the Supreme Court of Florida.
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A quick check shows that the US median age is 38, so I'm gonna say no.
RvW was 1973. To remember the way things were before you’d really need to be 60+ years old by now. And 60 assumes you were paying attention to abortion issues as a pre-teen. Not many under 70 are really going to fully aware of such issues pre-RvW.
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I found this (https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a6964440/abortion-before-roe-v-wade/) article online. It has an account from two doctors that worked ERs prior to '73. One of them states in reference to women coming into the ER: "We thought a lot of these were spontaneous abortions — we didn’t realize all of them were induced. The only reason we know that now is that when abortion was legalized, these cases disappeared."
I think it would be best if there were no unwanted pregnancies, and that's where education and birth control can make the difference. I don't know if it's actually possible to achieve zero unwanted pregnancies. I'm enough of an idealist to want it, and enough of a realist to plan for the worst. I'm definitely against abortion as birth control, and "accidental" pregnancy shouldn't be sufficient grounds for abortion. I could see making it available only in cases where the mother's life is at stake, however I think then that there would be a lot of "conveniency abortions" being performed and many women's lives would be lost. Again, a world where women only get pregnant after deliberation and when fully prepared would be best, however I don't see that happening any time soon, or ever.
To say that I'm torn about the abortion issue is a massive understatement.
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I also wonder if states like Texas/Oklahoma will tell Amazon (and other companies with similar policies) to leave the state.
I don't see why they would. Ask them to modify their policies? Maybe. Policies like that will cover medical issues other than abortion.
I am sure there will be some effort to prevent recruiting for abortions in ban states, but I am not sure how that will play out. Anti-abortion groups and Pro-Abortion groups are still there and still have some funding so they will still be pushing the boundaries at least in the short term.
I don't think hard core theocrats have that much power in the R party. If all this happens as expected, it will be interesting to see how the abortion issue affects US politics going forward. And/or if other social issues move to the front. I guess there are people who like to stir up divisive issues so if this doesn't do it, something else will come up.
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I found this (https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a6964440/abortion-before-roe-v-wade/) article online. It has an account from two doctors that worked ERs prior to '73. One of them states in reference to women coming into the ER: "We thought a lot of these were spontaneous abortions — we didn’t realize all of them were induced. The only reason we know that now is that when abortion was legalized, these cases disappeared."
I think it would be best if there were no unwanted pregnancies, and that's where education and birth control can make the difference. I don't know if it's actually possible to achieve zero unwanted pregnancies. I'm enough of an idealist to want it, and enough of a realist to plan for the worst. I'm definitely against abortion as birth control, and "accidental" pregnancy shouldn't be sufficient grounds for abortion. I could see making it available only in cases where the mother's life is at stake, however I think then that there would be a lot of "conveniency abortions" being performed and many women's lives would be lost. Again, a world where women only get pregnant after deliberation and when fully prepared would be best, however I don't see that happening any time soon, or ever.
To say that I'm torn about the abortion issue is a massive understatement.
That article is pure propaganda. They give no numbers/statistics, just a bunch of anecdotal horror stories that make you think millions of women were dying all over the country. And it really ought to be compared to birth/pregnancy complications as a check.
I heard some people talking about number yesterday. I don't remember anything all that high. And the number of abortion complications was not zero afterward. I will have to see what I can find for links.
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I was pretty young, definitely too young to worry about getting anyone pregnant when R v W passed. What was it like?
A patchwork of different state laws. A uterus equipped birthing person (set aside the irony for the moment) desiring an abortion might need to travel to a different state to get it done. There were a couple girls in my HS class, that that was the rumor about. Can't have a nice girl from a nice family coming up preggers.
Lots of "allowed with limitations", like not after 3 months. And not always the places one would expect given the political landscape now.
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T.O.M. called it. The Left will be calling for packing the court over the summer.
...
Right. Possibly because of my personal isolation from the issue, I see that as the biggest problem with the alleged "decision."
"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well.
Power aggrandizes.
The Fix is in.
I'm even getting tired of saying that myself.
Terry, 230RN
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"
"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."
Yeah, because the Republicans would NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PROMISE WITH A PINKY SWEAR do that...
Sigh.
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For something that is not an enumerated right (like RKBA) I really don’t get why people get so worked up over States getting to decide if/how to regulate something. I mean, I get it in that control freaks will control freak (and this goes for both sides - if I had to pick one extreme I’d go with abortion being illegal everywhere, but I’m quite happy with RvW simply being struck down), but for a substantial majority this shouldn’t be even a little controversial.
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"
"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."
Yeah, because the Republicans would NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PROMISE WITH A PINKY SWEAR do that...
Sigh.
Oh, come now. You must agree that they've maneuvered themselves into an almost iron clad position with respect to having their cake and eating it, too.
If not, there's no point in discussing that further. Have a Twinky. Sometimes you overdo yourself, Terry said, without using all caps and without checking his A1C.
:rofl:
Take it to PMs, K Frame.
Terry, 230RN
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I could see myself being able to compromise on the abortion issue a bit in a sane world, but seeing some of these radicals being willing to go right over the line to infanticide makes me say no. Can't compromise with that. Yes, they are just radicals, but they are the ones who keep pushing and demand more compromises just like other issues. It honestly makes me wonder what they do or want that I don't know about. I hate to go down that rabbit hole.
The only reasonable, humane compromise is the same one we make for self-defense. You can legally kill a fellow human in self-defense, but you had better be prepared to show that your actions were necessary, to prevent death or serious injury. The difference in the case of abortion is that it can be decided by professionals beforehand, instead of something that has to be adjudicated after the fact.
Yes, that means women would be told what they can do with their own bodies. The horror...
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You're turning into quite the Howler Monkey of Doom lately... and I'm not exactly sure why.
""They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."
This statement falls apart when viewed with even a marginally critical eye. Hell, even when viewed with an eye with a pointy stick in it.
If "They" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why have we been hearing constant howls about how Uncle Joe's Glorious Agenda for a More Liberal America has been so totally trashed?
If "they" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why are the Democrats weeping bitter tears of defeat over the Senate Filibuster?
If (ditto ditto ditto), how the hell did the Dems comprehensively lose Virginia?
If (ditto ditto ditto), how did Republicans claw their way back to very close to a tie in the House of Representatives?
So, despite pretty comprehensive failures across the board the last year by the Democratic party, despite the growing unrest nation wide, despite poll after poll showing that the Dems are in serious trouble, it all comes down to one thing -- massive Democratic take over in November -- House Democrats 435, House Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, Democratic Governors 50, Republican Governors 0, and so forth an so on.
OK.
I guess we're *expletive deleted*ed then.
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If "They" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why have we been hearing constant howls about how Uncle Joe's Glorious Agenda for a More Liberal America has been so totally trashed?
If "they" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why are the Democrats weeping bitter tears of defeat over the Senate Filibuster?
These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them. Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time. It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.
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These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them. Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time. It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.
IMO, The democrat party is just as stupid as many here say the republican party is. They get a majority then get the big head and screw up. There was probably a way to do a good portion of what they wanted, but they refused to compromise even with their own party or worried about something they couldn't control. Both parties contain a bunch of stupid politicians. A few are smart people, but most are not (IMAO).
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IMO, The democrat party is just as stupid as many here say the republican party is. They get a majority then get the big head and screw up. There was probably a way to do a good portion of what they wanted, but they refused to compromise even with their own party or worried about something they couldn't control. Both parties contain a bunch of stupid politicians. A few are smart people, but most are not (IMAO).
This should be engraved on a stone tablet somewhere as words of wisdom.
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If you're of the opinion that this is not just some lone clerk, but part of a far left strategy (personally, I think it's one or the other, but don't know which) then John Hayward has some interesting thoughts:
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/04/john-hayward-takes-comprehensive-and-extremely-valuable-look-at-dems-big-mistake-in-going-all-in-on-pro-abort-thuggery/
I thought the below to be cogent. It's what dems don't get. People everywhere, including moderate dems, are sick of the far left loony protestors that the dems call out for all this stuff. They destroy their own message with the purple haired weirdos who physically attack people for an opposing view (plenty of videos of that stuff going around right now).
There's nothing about the post-Roe landscape that the majority of Americans finds particularly troubling. The Left's screaming freakout will alienate far more voters than it persuades. Dems needed to keep their kooks hidden, but instead they're putting on a circus. Big mistake.
The thuggery on display from Democrats right now is DEEPLY alienating to most Americans. They don't want to see imperious Dems shrieking about packing the Court and shredding the Constitution, or thugs menacing the families of Supreme Court justices.
It can be grey haired weirdoes as well. Elizabeth Warren is in rare form dementia-wise today.
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/05/04/watch-elizabeth-warren-goes-full-stompy-foot-through-the-plants-after-screaming-at-people-about-abortion/
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These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them. Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time. It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.
OMG! PANIC! HORRIBLE ALMOST IDEALIZATION OF DOOM! WE MIGHT BE SCREWED! MIGHT BE GAME OVER, MAN! MIGHT BE GAME OVER!
Ok, Hudson, calm the hell down...
Seen any movement by the Democrats to do that?
Any reason to push the panic button?
Any reason to think that either senator who was adamantly opposed to either measure has changed his/her position on either matter when the states that they represent are trending harder and harder Republican, making them vulnerable in coming elections?
Even if one or both were to have a come to Jeebus experience on the filibuster and give the Democrats what, 6 months of filibusterless leverage, think the Republicans, on retaking the Senate, which they appear poised to do in November, would let that stand?
Oh, I forgot, in November it will be House Democrats 435, Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, and so forth and so on because of the massive Democratic rewriting of blah blah blah blah whatever howler monkey of doom scenario came to someone in their fever dreams.
OK.
And level with me, why are you all panicking about this stuff when PUTIN COULD NUKE US BACK INTO THE STONE AGE TOMORROW AND INVADE ON FRIDAY???? HOLY HELL, MAN! HOLY HELL!
:angel: (I know that's supposed to be an angel, but it looks more to me like a panic monkey with a pancake on its head...)
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"The Left's screaming freakout will alienate far more voters than it persuades."
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Winner winner chicken dinner.
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Whatever side of this conversation you're on, you have to admit that this is hilarious:
Gavin Newsom
@GavinNewsom
If men could get pregnant, this wouldn’t even be a conversation.
This must be one of the fastest lefty talking point turnarounds ever. Just a few days ago you were a monster if you said men can't get pregnant. I wonder what is going to happen to that new "pregnant man" emoji Apple or whoever the *expletive deleted*ck just added to their software?
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/04/transphobic-california-gov-gavin-newsom-suggests-that-men-cant-get-pregnant/
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(https://i0.wp.com/thedecafmarketer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/ross.jpg?fit=680%2C511&ssl=1)
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This is normally how drafts are handled and discarded at the SC:
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/04/the-white-house-wont-say-whether-it-condemns-or-welcomes-the-leak-of-the-roe-v-wade-draft/
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OMG! PANIC! HORRIBLE ALMOST IDEALIZATION OF DOOM! WE MIGHT BE SCREWED! MIGHT BE GAME OVER, MAN! MIGHT BE GAME OVER!
Ok, Hudson, calm the hell down...
Seen any movement by the Democrats to do that?
Any reason to push the panic button?
Any reason to think that either senator who was adamantly opposed to either measure has changed his/her position on either matter when the states that they represent are trending harder and harder Republican, making them vulnerable in coming elections?
Even if one or both were to have a come to Jeebus experience on the filibuster and give the Democrats what, 6 months of filibusterless leverage, think the Republicans, on retaking the Senate, which they appear poised to do in November, would let that stand?
Oh, I forgot, in November it will be House Democrats 435, Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, and so forth and so on because of the massive Democratic rewriting of blah blah blah blah whatever howler monkey of doom scenario came to someone in their fever dreams.
OK.
And level with me, why are you all panicking about this stuff when PUTIN COULD NUKE US BACK INTO THE STONE AGE TOMORROW AND INVADE ON FRIDAY???? HOLY HELL, MAN! HOLY HELL!
:angel: (I know that's supposed to be an angel, but it looks more to me like a panic monkey with a pancake on its head...)
What in the heck gave you the idea I am in panic mode? I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation about why the Republicans need to be wary. They are indeed hanging their hopes on a very slim thread.
Incidentally, are you related to this guy by chance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME)
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What in the heck gave you the idea I am in panic mode? I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation about why the Republicans need to be wary. They are indeed hanging their hopes on a very slim thread.
Incidentally, are you related to this guy by chance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME)
So far, all the things Democrats are doing that push voters back to the R side they are still doing and doubling down. So far, I don't see Republicans taking it for granted, but we still have some months to go.
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New Poll Shows Surprisingly Sizable Majority Of Unborn Babies Favor Overturning Roe
https://babylonbee.com/news/new-poll-shows-surprisingly-sizable-majority-of-fetuses-favor-overturning-roe
(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-11207-1.jpg)
U.S.—A CNN poll has revealed a surprisingly sizable majority of unborn babies are in favor of overturning the infamous Roe v. Wade decision. The fetuses allegedly frown upon abortions for interfering with their ability to be alive.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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It can be grey haired weirdoes as well. Elizabeth Warren is in rare form dementia-wise today.
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/05/04/watch-elizabeth-warren-goes-full-stompy-foot-through-the-plants-after-screaming-at-people-about-abortion/
Note the tweet included near the middle where D-Swalwell dumps on Susan Sarandon who is criticizing Democrats. That is something I didn't expect to see.
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I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding. My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based. If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure. Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home. If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?
Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking. He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian. He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal. Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
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I've seen far left weirdos say the far right will ban contraception (and interracial marriage?!?) next, but I've not heard it from a righty.
That said I do not interact with many fringe Christians.
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I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding. My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based. If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure. Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home. If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?
Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking. He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian. He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal. Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
Don't know about the 4th Amendment part. I haven't read the draft opinion.
I have never heard of anyone talking about making contraception illegal aside from Democrats accusing Republicans. The closest issues I can think of are 1) the abortion pill, and 2) not wanting to pay for free contraceptives.
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I was trying to find links on numbers of deaths from illegal abortions before Roe vs Wade.
https://www.liveaction.org/news/women-died-illegal-abortion-roe/
Not sure who runs this site, but I am sure it has its bias. Has a lot of links. Seems to indicate that most illegal abortions were done by doctors and deaths happened but were pretty low for the most part. I guess that assumes cause of death was recorded correctly. We don't know how many illegal abortions were done so can't do much statistical analysis with that.
https://medium.com/the-pro-life-rose/fact-check-did-thousands-of-women-die-of-illegal-abortions-before-roe-vs-wade-73f3a38da62f
Same for this site. Seems to show deaths were lower, but were never that high.
1959: less than 300 deaths (Source: Guttmacher Institute)
1964: 264 deaths (Source: Department of Health Education and Welfare)
1964: 267 deaths (Source: Statistician Dr. Christopher Tietze)
1965: just under 200 deaths (Source: Guttmacher Institute)
1965: 193 deaths (Source: Planned Parenthood)
1966: 189 deaths (Source: National Center for Health Statistics, reported by CDC)
1972: 39 deaths (Source: Centers for Disease Control CDC)
1973: 19 deaths (Source: Centers for Disease Control CDC)
I thought Steven Crowder said 1500 yesterday, but I may not be remembering correctly. Still nothing to panic over. I guess we will see what other information pops up.
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I was trying to find links on numbers of deaths from illegal abortions before Roe vs Wade.
https://www.liveaction.org/news/women-died-illegal-abortion-roe/
Not sure who runs this site, but I am sure it has its bias. Has a lot of links. Seems to indicate that most illegal abortions were done by doctors and deaths happened but were pretty low for the most part. I guess that assumes cause of death was recorded correctly. We don't know how many illegal abortions were done so can't do much statistical analysis with that.
https://medium.com/the-pro-life-rose/fact-check-did-thousands-of-women-die-of-illegal-abortions-before-roe-vs-wade-73f3a38da62f
Same for this site. Seems to show deaths were lower, but were never that high.
I thought Steven Crowder said 1500 yesterday, but I may not be remembering correctly. Still nothing to panic over. I guess we will see what other information pops up.
What are the numbers today for non-clinic performed abortions? I doubt back room abortions have completely gone away
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I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding. My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based. If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure. Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home. If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?
Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking. He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian. He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal. Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
Crowder did mention the privacy issue, but he didn't give a legal answer. Just pretty much said it was another scare tactic over this issue. I think he is right about that. It isn't as if the Federal Govt respects any right to privacy these days. Even the courts generally give the Govt a lot of leeway even when their actions are explicitly illegal.
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Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking. He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian. He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal. Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
I think there are some religious conservatives (and maybe some secular conservatives) that don't realize how vanishingly few people, even in politically and socially conservative circles, share their particular views of certain issues. As an example, I've encountered people who seem to think re-establishing teacher-led prayer in public school classrooms is still high up on the conservative Republican agenda. Not because they're afraid it's true - they're in favor of it. I'm guessing your man there is one of those types.
The only people that would even want to do that are fundie Catholics, and an even smaller fringe of fundie Protestant/evangelicals. I've heard that anti-birth-control doctrine used to be a common teaching across most Christian denominations, but it certainly has not been for some time (in the U.S.). Even if U.S. Christians return to that position, it would be a huge leap to assume they'd want a legal ban.
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding. My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based. If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure. Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home. If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?
Does it really seem reasonable to believe the 4th amendment, which has been with us for over two hundred years, is a dead letter, unless women can get abortions? For most of that time, abortion was illegal under at least some states' laws. Doesn't it seem really bizarre to suggest that the Bill of Rights offers us no protection from intrusive law enforcement practices, unless it also protects a controversial medical procedure?
Pretty sure someone's trying to smuggle in some pro-abortion propaganda on you.
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I don’t know any Protestant Christians that oppose birth control.
I mean, Monty Python had a point (couldn’t find both clips in a single clip).
https://youtu.be/bzVHjg3AqIQ
https://youtu.be/PDBjsFAyiwA
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I don’t know any Protestant Christians that oppose birth control.
I mean, Monty Python had a point (couldn’t find both clips in a single clip).
https://youtu.be/bzVHjg3AqIQ
https://youtu.be/PDBjsFAyiwA
Some of us oppose one or two very specific means of birth control that amount to early abortions. I don't know of any who oppose birth control per se, but if you turn over enough rocks you might find some. I think the commandment to "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it" has been fulfilled already. (A real pandemic or a nuclear war or even just a global loss of interest in natural sex could make it relevant again.)
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Hey, I just wanted to give props to all the members participating in this thread. It's seven pages mostly on abortion, and everyone has been polite and thoughtful in their debate of this contentious topic. I don't think we have ever gone anywhere near this long without such a thread being locked. Kudos to all of you! =)
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Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking. He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian. He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal. Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
I have never heard of anything like this, in current times.
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There's some disagreement in the various protestant groups about birth control.
Old Order Amish forbid it, although that apparently is starting to break down on an individual basis. Hutterites also believe it to be a sin, but again, that's breaking down and they're OK with it if it's recommended by a medical doctor, apparently.
At least one branch of the Luthern Church has proclaimed birth control to be a sin.
We Methodists are pretty much "it's between you and God."
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Opposition to birth control used to be common among protestant churches. It is not common any more. I have never heard of serious movement to ban birth control in modern times. In the earlier 20th century, some of the anti-birth control laws were aimed at keeping unmarried people from buying it, not married couples. The thought was that it would encourage promiscuity. Some research indicates they were actually right.
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This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ
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Opposition to birth control used to be common among protestant churches. It is not common any more. I have never heard of serious movement to ban birth control in modern times. In the earlier 20th century, some of the anti-birth control laws were aimed at keeping unmarried people from buying it, not married couples. The thought was that it would encourage promiscuity. Some research indicates they were actually right.
That went along with blue laws and other stuff done to limit or outlaw things considered sinful. I thought general support for that stuff in my state ended in the 1980's and a lot of the state wide limits were removed. Some stuff still hangs around mostly related to limits on alcohol sales. I have never heard of any serious support for bringing that stuff back.
And I would point out that it was Democrats who enacted a lot of that. Many of those people never stopped voting Democrat in local elections. There have been a lot of generational shifts in the South.
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In recent years, the republicans have tried to get birth control OTC but the dem's keep fighting it.
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This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ
I was just getting ready to post that. =D
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_birth_control
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This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ
That was the first of my YouTube links. The second was the “protestant” response scene that followed.
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Some of us oppose one or two very specific means of birth control that amount to early abortions. I don't know of any who oppose birth control per se, but if you turn over enough rocks you might find some. I think the commandment to "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it" has been fulfilled already. (A real pandemic or a nuclear war or even just a global loss of interest in natural sex could make it relevant again.)
I meant birth control “per se”. For general support for that, just look at the birth rate for Protestant/evangelical pastor’s families. Pretty well reflects general birth rate trends for 1-3 kids.
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I will say that I believe the birth rate among married people in the USA (and the western world in general) is way too low. We should be having enough kids to slowly grow our population without immigration.
And unmarried people should have zero kids.
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Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.
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Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.
Except for the pain of that transition, where the demographics are elderly-heavy.
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Not neccicarrily. There could be a novel disease that targets the elderly and leaves the young and healthy alon...... Oh. Nevermind. >:D >:D
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Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.
Economically that would be terrible, at least short term.
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At least one branch of the Luthern Church has proclaimed birth control to be a sin.
Now that you mention, I do remember hearing that when I used to listen to the Missouri Synod radio station here in St. Louis. I think the reasoning is that children are gifts from God, and the natural result of the marriage relationship. Therefore, you should not try to prevent the gifts God might choose for you. Couples who used birth control were accused of just wanting to have more money for nice cars, etc. They had the gift of snark.
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Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.
Mr. Thanos to the red courtesy phone
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Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.
Sounds like a good reason to do less at the federal level and let the individual states take care of more things. I hear a country exists that used to use a Constitution that said something like that.
=D
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And the whacko far left continues to "help" the left with their message:
"Hookup culture will be absolutely decimated". ;/
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/05/women-on-tiktok-warn-that-hookup-culture-will-be-absolutely-decimated-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/
They still don't seem to understand that this veer into "abortions are birth control and are fun" is what has been turning the tide against them on the whole "abortion is a right" thing. They highlight a message that I think even many pro-abortion people find disgusting.
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And the whacko far left continues to "help" the left with their message:
"Hookup culture will be absolutely decimated". ;/
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/05/women-on-tiktok-warn-that-hookup-culture-will-be-absolutely-decimated-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/
They still don't seem to understand that this veer into "abortions are birth control and are fun" is what has been turning the tide against them on the whole "abortion is a right" thing. They highlight a message that I think even many pro-abortion people find disgusting.
Those people are the equivalent of the neckbeards in full battle rattle doing open carry with their ARs at Starbucks.
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Those people are the equivalent of the neckbeards in full battle rattle doing open carry with their ARs at Starbucks.
For every AOC there is a Marge Greene. Universe loves balance.
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For every AOC there is a Marge Greene. Universe loves balance.
I saw Tim Pool's show with Greene a couple months ago. She sounds sane and not stupid. I guess that is the polar opposite of AOC.
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Those people are the equivalent of the neckbeards in full battle rattle doing open carry with their ARs at Starbucks.
Too true.
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Chucky has decided to push forward with the dem bill to codify Roe without working with Collins. They won't get 50 votes now.
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Chucky has decided to push forward with the dem bill to codify Roe without working with Collins. They won't get 50 votes now.
Perhaps he wants it to fail so he can beat Republicans and a few Democrats over the head with the "War on Women" schtick.
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Everyone keeps claiming Republicans are waging a War on Women, but it was in fact Teddy Kennedy, a Democrat, who had the first confirmed kill in the War on Women...
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Moloch Warns Of Looming Child Sacrifice Supply Chain Issues
https://babylonbee.com/news/moloch-warns-of-looming-child-sacrifice-supply-chain-issues
(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-11214-1.jpg)
Babylon Bee has been harsh on this issue. Maybe no more than normal. =)
This was on their Instagram.
(https://i.imgur.com/pvj0B1b.jpg)
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Edit: Nevermind, clickbait.
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Moloch Warns Of Looming Child Sacrifice Supply Chain Issues
https://babylonbee.com/news/moloch-warns-of-looming-child-sacrifice-supply-chain-issues
(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-11214-1.jpg)
Babylon Bee has been harsh on this issue. Maybe no more than normal. =)
It's beautiful. :rofl:
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(https://i.imgur.com/4huK6vi.jpg)
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It is true that there will be illegal abortions, probably a lot. And people will travel for abortions. However, there should be a reduction in the number of abortions. That is about the best we can hope for without a radical change in the culture of the USA.
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Related crap that pops up on my YT page.
Crime show* clip popped up maybe a month or so ago and still don't know why I clicked on it but apparently a man is shot in the back of the head while in church. The investigators find he was wearing a vest to which the priest explains the man was wearing because of death threats from far right extremists for being an abortion doc. The priest describes what the man was doing as the "lord's work". I was like WUT?
So I guess abortion is doing the "Lord's work" according to Hollyweird
*CIS New York or something
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That's okay, it wasn't their actual addresses just the GPS coordinates
Ruth Sent Us says it didn’t post addresses of justices, just GPS coordinates near their homes, not AT them
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/05/ruth-sent-us-says-it-didnt-post-addresses-of-justices-just-gps-coordinates-near-their-homes-not-at-them/
Crickets in the MSM over it.
Jeryl Bier can’t help but be struck by MSM’s conspicuous lack of interest in lefties trying to get SCOTUS Justices killed
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/06/jeryl-bier-cant-help-but-be-struck-by-msms-conspicuous-lack-of-interest-in-lefties-trying-to-get-scotus-justices-killed/
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That's okay, it wasn't their actual addresses just the GPS coordinates
They're claiming that they manually input coordinates that were not the homes of the justices, but just nearby, which I'm sure the neighbors appreciated.
I'm getting really pissed about this protesting in front of people's homes instead of their workplace, and there are damn conservatives doing this as well.
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They, Ruth Sent Us, have a website https://www.ruthsent.us/
Ruth Bader Ginsburg spent her entire life moving the needle towards justice for all. She believed, and we believe that:
Women Deserve Trust
Black Lives Matter
Love Is Love
No Human Is Illegal
Our 6-3 extremist Supreme Court routinely issues rulings that hurt women, racial minorities, LGBTQ+ and immigrant rights. We must rise up to force accountability using a diversity of tactics.
Join our private Facebook group (if you are still on evil Facebook).
We are also on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter.
And you may notice a map on their front page
ANNOUNCING: Walk-by Wednesday, May 11, 2022!
At the homes of the six extremist justices, three in Virginia and three in Maryland. If you'd like to join or lead a peaceful protest, let us know.
And right below that a link
Commit to rise up with us!
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Man, these people sure tie themselves up in knots regarding terminology. It would be exhausting if I gave a crap. :laugh:
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/06/trans-journalist-assoc-shares-thread-on-appropriate-way-to-cover-roe-v-wade-since-people-who-are-not-women-do-get-abortions-and-hoo-boy/
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That's okay, it wasn't their actual addresses just the GPS coordinates
Ruth Sent Us says it didn’t post addresses of justices, just GPS coordinates near their homes, not AT them
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/05/ruth-sent-us-says-it-didnt-post-addresses-of-justices-just-gps-coordinates-near-their-homes-not-at-them/
Crickets in the MSM over it.
Jeryl Bier can’t help but be struck by MSM’s conspicuous lack of interest in lefties trying to get SCOTUS Justices killed
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/06/jeryl-bier-cant-help-but-be-struck-by-msms-conspicuous-lack-of-interest-in-lefties-trying-to-get-scotus-justices-killed/
Be a damn shame if a few of them slipped on bars of soap while mostly peacefully protesting at those locations and times they so helpfully posted publicly.
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I wonder if the police or courts will do their jobs?
Protesting any judge to try to get them to change their vote is illegal and not protected by the 1st.
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I wonder if the police or courts will do their jobs?
Protesting any judge to try to get them to change their vote is illegal and not protected by the 1st.
#1, No they won't because the current administration is praising these peaceful protestors as patriots, you racist misogynist.
#2, Yes they will because CNN (aka the White House PR dept) says that far right extremists are actually doing all the violence.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/06/cnn-loudly-and-repeatedly-sounds-alarm-about-imminent-threat-of-far-right-violence-over-scotus-draft-opinion-video/
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#2, Yes they will because CNN (aka the White House PR dept) says that far right extremists are actually doing all the violence.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/06/cnn-loudly-and-repeatedly-sounds-alarm-about-imminent-threat-of-far-right-violence-over-scotus-draft-opinion-video/
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/1qjZV8pMLOkc2N70Pf/giphy.gif)
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The tolerant left being tolerant:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pro-abortion-groups-target-churches-for-mothers-day-protests
Boulder, CO:
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/05/1862/1048/Church-Graffiti-II.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
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Kevin Sorbo
@ksorbs
·
23h
“If women can’t get abortions men should be forced to stay and take care of the child as well.”
Your terms are acceptable.
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men should be forced to stay and take care of the child as well.
How very right of them
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Interesting CNN poll. If this leak was in fact orchestrated, it appears to have backfired (as some of us here predicted):
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/07/leaked-scotus-draft-decisions-impact-on-midterm-voter-attitude-wont-thrill-dems/
Though I'm certain the planned attack of Catholic churches tomorrow isn't helping the "winning hearts and minds" thing. Imagine what the left would say if even one Mosque was defaced in any way after 9/11. Oh, wait...
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More gaslighting
No ,it’s not hysterical or alarmist ,They will traffic babies that many women can’t afford to keep .There is a huge money making market world wide for babies and behind that is organ trafficking the majority Supreme Court justices are officially the satanic force.
— ✌🏼rosanna arquette (@RoArquette) May 7, 2022
Rosanna Arquette insists it’s not hysterical to assume SCOTUS conservatives are a ‘satanic force’ bent on trafficking baby parts
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/07/rosanna-arquette-insists-its-not-hysterical-to-assume-scotus-conservatives-are-a-satanic-force-bent-on-trafficking-baby-parts/
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I think I've only seen one person say blame the democrats. RBG warned them twenty plus years ago this was a bad ruling. I'm sure they have had a super majority in my lifetime.
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More gaslighting
Rosanna Arquette insists it’s not hysterical to assume SCOTUS conservatives are a ‘satanic force’ bent on trafficking baby parts
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/07/rosanna-arquette-insists-its-not-hysterical-to-assume-scotus-conservatives-are-a-satanic-force-bent-on-trafficking-baby-parts/
That is probably not the most insane thing she ever said. Pretty clueless on this issue regardless.
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So I’m wondering if we’re back to “my body my choice” now since Covid-19 vaccines were “even though it’s your body, no choice get vaccinated “…
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So I’m wondering if we’re back to “my body my choice” now since Covid-19 vaccines were “even though it’s your body, no choice get vaccinated “…
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
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The scene in front of Chief Justice John Roberts’ house
https://twitter.com/DouglasKBlair/status/1523088909760024576
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It appears that the protest in front of Kavanaugh's house was organized by his neighbor (how does a teacher afford that neighborhood?). I wonder what the other neighbors think of that?
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/08/terrorizing-his-family-justice-kavanaughs-neighbor-teacher-lacie-wooten-holway-organized-protest-outside-of-his-home/
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Mark my words, there will be at the very least an attempt on one or more SC justice's life and the MSM and 90+% of the dems will applaud it
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Justice Alito and his family have been moved to an undisclosed location. Let us pray for he and his family’s safety.
— Kristan Hawkins (@KristanHawkins) May 8, 2022
Sure Enough, Protesters Have Shown Up Outside Homes of Supreme Court Justices, As Justice Alito Moved to Undisclosed Location
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2022/05/07/protesters-showing-up-at-homes-of-supreme-court-justices-n2606903
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Let's see just how principled those five are. I hope they stand strong.
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Mark my words, there will be at the very least an attempt on one or more SC justice's life and the MSM and 90+% of the dems will applaud it
Leak or no, once the final ruling is released that was always a likelihood.
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Leak or no, once the final ruling is released that was always a likelihood.
Maybe, but once released, it is a done deal. Protesting them doesn't do any good. In this case, the final ruling has not been released.
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Let's see just how principled those five are. I hope they stand strong.
Let's hope they are smart enough to know that giving in won't make it go away.
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Sure Enough, Protesters Have Shown Up Outside Homes of Supreme Court Justices, As Justice Alito Moved to Undisclosed Location
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2022/05/07/protesters-showing-up-at-homes-of-supreme-court-justices-n2606903
Which is not an insurrection or anything. ;/
Also, moar mostly peacefulness:
https://www.tampafp.com/pro-life-headquarters-firebombed-with-molotov-cocktails-sunday/
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Which is not an insurrection or anything. ;/
Also, moar mostly peacefulness:
https://www.tampafp.com/pro-life-headquarters-firebombed-with-molotov-cocktails-sunday/
Peacefully firebombed
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mississippi-gov-tate-reeves-on-banning-birth-control-that-is-not-what-we-are-focused-on-at-this-time
Mississippi says they are not focused on banning some methods of contraception at this time.
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mississippi-gov-tate-reeves-on-banning-birth-control-that-is-not-what-we-are-focused-on-at-this-time
Mississippi says they are not focused on banning some methods of contraception at this time.
I'm guessing there is both confusion and manipulation regarding the term "contraception". I doubt any state is going after "pre-activity" contraception. There certainly could be some states that consider a ban on the morning after pill, which is a valid debate point regarding contraception and the line between preventing pregnancy and terminating pregnancy.
Bill Maher of all people, has brought up how strict abortion laws in European countries are. A quick search showed me that many of those countries make the morning after pill difficult to obtain.
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^^^The article noted that the Governor was asked about Plan B and IUDs as candidates for being banned and he declined to specifically answer.
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Caroline Reilly (@ms_creilly), a reporter for @RewireNewsGroup, has called for more arson attacks against anti-abortion groups & suggested an escalation to deadly political violence. pic.twitter.com/OBoE4DJbX5
— Andy Ngô 🏳️🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) May 9, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/09/blue-check-pro-abort-reporter-deletes-account-after-being-dragged-mercilessly-over-tweet-calling-for-more-violence-against-pro-life/
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^^^The article noted that the Governor was asked about Plan B and IUDs as candidates for being banned and he declined to specifically answer.
^^Did he read a checklist on how to lose support of moderates?
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^^^The article noted that the Governor was asked about Plan B and IUDs as candidates for being banned and he declined to specifically answer.
I don't know I about IUDs, but I think there is some evidence that Plan B only prevents ovulation.
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^^Did he read a checklist on how to lose support of moderates?
Just like Mitch saying that if Roe falls abortion could be outlawed at the federal level.
They must have had a meeting and said hey looks like we are going clean up in the midterms we better get on the game to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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^^^The article noted that the Governor was asked about Plan B and IUDs as candidates for being banned and he declined to specifically answer.
Just to be clear for those like me that don't follow some details, the "Plan B" is also known as the morning after pill.
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I don't know I about IUDs, but I think there is some evidence that Plan B only prevents ovulation.
How an IUD works (https://gynraleigh.com/how-does-an-iud-work)
How Plan B works (https://planb.ca/en/how-plan-b-works/)
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The thing that gets sticky about birth control among hard-core anti-abortion crowds is that some are considered tantamount to abortion. I’m not even talking Plan B which absolutely is an abortifacient - that’s the whole point of it. Some birth control methods, like the copper IUD, don’t reliably prevent sperm from passing or an egg from being released by the ovary. So conception can (and often does) occur, with the birth control device preventing implantation. Which is essentially causing an abortion.
Not necessarily saying such birth control is worthy of banning but it is something that will come up for debate eventually in some states once Roe and Casey are officially out of the way. To make birth control (of any type) illegal again SCOTUS would probably need to overturn Griswold too.
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I understand the biology of it, but convincing the majority of the middle of the road Americans that an IUD is on the same level as a third trimester abortion is not only a losing battle, but likely to loose a lot of support for *any* abortion restrictions.
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I understand the biology of it, but convincing the majority of the middle of the road Americans that an IUD is on the same level as a third trimester abortion is not only a losing battle, but likely to loose a lot of support for *any* abortion restrictions.
I don't have a strong understanding from the philosophical side, but when I did the quick lookup of Plan B and Europe, I read a few statements from religious groups, which seemed to be, "IUD OK", but "Plan B not OK".
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I don't have a strong understanding from the philosophical side, but when I did the quick lookup of Plan B and Europe, I read a few statements from religious groups, which seemed to be, "IUD OK", but "Plan B not OK".
There are 2 basic types of IUD. One is copper, the other is plastic and impregnated (heh) with birth control hormones.
The latter is generally as acceptable to pro-lifers as regular oral birth control. Basically it allows for the same hormones to be used to prevent ovulation but at much lower dose because it’s more targeted.
The former, the copper one, is what pro-lifers tend to object to because while it is somewhat effective at keeping sperm from finding the egg it’s not THAT good at that, and it has a secondary effect of preventing successful implantation of a fertilized egg.
Re: dogmush’s point, I’m not sure how banning a couple specific birth control methods will go over. It’ll probably be a state by state thing. But in general I’d agree that attacking birth control now is poor timing at best.
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Plan B apparently does not kill human zygotes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception#Mechanism_of_action (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception#Mechanism_of_action)
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Pro-choice opinions expressed in a mostly peaceful way:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-anti-abortion-group-molotov-cocktail-arson-attack (https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-anti-abortion-group-molotov-cocktail-arson-attack)
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deleted
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Pro-choice opinions expressed in a mostly peaceful way:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-anti-abortion-group-molotov-cocktail-arson-attack (https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-anti-abortion-group-molotov-cocktail-arson-attack)
Both sides have had their fair share of violent nutters.
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There are 2 basic types of IUD. One is copper, the other is plastic and impregnated (heh) with birth control hormones.
The latter is generally as acceptable to pro-lifers as regular oral birth control. Basically it allows for the same hormones to be used to prevent ovulation but at much lower dose because it’s more targeted.
The former, the copper one, is what pro-lifers tend to object to because while it is somewhat effective at keeping sperm from finding the egg it’s not THAT good at that, and it has a secondary effect of preventing successful implantation of a fertilized egg.
Re: dogmush’s point, I’m not sure how banning a couple specific birth control methods will go over. It’ll probably be a state by state thing. But in general I’d agree that attacking birth control now is poor timing at best.
In their defense, they weren't attacking birth control. The news media was just being pushy and trying to make a story where one didn't exist. The Gov who was questioned gave a non-answer that is being interpreted as meaning more. Whether it does mean more we don't know.
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Like I said, Plan B apparently does not kill human zygotes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception#Mechanism_of_action (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception#Mechanism_of_action)
Which is why the old standby of methotrexate is still used by some providers if less than 8 weeks gestation. It is also used in the case of ectopic pregnancy when trying to preserve the fallopian tube.
bob
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mississippi-gov-tate-reeves-on-banning-birth-control-that-is-not-what-we-are-focused-on-at-this-time
Below are some quotes from this article about what the Governor said. I don't think it means he wants to ban contraception the way it was being portrayed. I think the news guy was trying to push him into saying that by asking hypothetical questions which he didn't want to answer. IMO, he was right to avoid it. There is no perfect answer than could never be twisted. The Supreme Court opinion is hypothetical until the final ruling is released anyway.
"That is not what we are focused on at this time," Reeves said. "We're focused on looking at, seeing what the court allows for, the bill that is before the court is a 15-week ban. We believe that the overturning of Roe is the correct decision by the court."
----------------
On NBC's "Meet the Press," anchor Chuck Todd also asked Reeves whether outlawing abortion in Mississippi would include birth control methods like IUDs, prompting Reeves to say he doesn't think "that it is going to apply to those that choose to use birth control."
"I believe that clearly a life begins at conception," Reeves added.
------------------------------
Later in the interview, Todd brought up the "life begins at conception" quote and asked Reeves whether he would sign legislation to ban contraception if it was brought before him to sign.
"Well, I don't think that's going to happen in Mississippi. I'm sure they'll have those conversations in other states," Reeves said.
"But you're not answering the question," Todd said.
"Well that's always the case. There's so many things we can talk about," Reeves said before highlighting some of the resources his administration is providing for pregnancy resource centers, including adoption resources.
He probably should rethink appearing on networks like CNN in the first place.
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Re: dogmush’s point, I’m not sure how banning a couple specific birth control methods will go over. It’ll probably be a state by state thing. But in general I’d agree that attacking birth control now is poor timing at best.
Honest question:
Is that what Republican politicians are actually doing, or are we just being influenced to talk about it as if it were?
edit:
I see now some above posts have spoken to that.
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This is as close as I could find with a quick search: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article261207007.html
Not exactly a frothing Republican waiting on a hair trigger, but he at least gave a substantive answer.
I think you are probably correct in that the folks who make a living by the column inch have ran out of things to say regarding an opinion that isn't actually out yet, and have veered into hypotheticals, dragging the rest of the online discussion with them.
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I think you are probably correct in that the folks who make a living by the column inch have ran out of things to say regarding an opinion that isn't actually out yet, and have veered into hypotheticals, dragging the rest of the online discussion with them.
It's a deliberate attempt to frame GOP politicians. You may recall a reporter asking Romney about banning birth control in 2012, except there was no court case to pin it on. It was completely out of the blue, and I think it sustained its own news cycle at the time.
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Or it's highly emotional people catastrophizing their bugaboos onto their enemies. Or a little of both.
I'm sure democratic "strategists" exist that attempt to get soundbites on their enemies, but most of these blog authors are too stupid to figure that out. They already legitimately believe the GOP wants to bring about the Handmaid's Tale (despite not having read it) and are screaming into the void.
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It's a deliberate attempt to frame GOP politicians. You may recall a reporter asking Romney about banning birth control in 2012, except there was no court case to pin it on. It was completely out of the blue, and I think it sustained its own news cycle at the time.
This. Redirect the discussion to attack Republicans and frame them as the radicals. Put them on the defensive.
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In case there was any doubt some of them are nuts
MSNBC guest says she wants to make sweet love to the SCOTUS leaker, then “joyfully abort the baby." pic.twitter.com/NNSU7B6ahD
— Real Mac Report (@RealMacReport) May 9, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/09/msnbc-comedian-says-shell-joyfully-abort-our-fetus-after-making-sweet-love-to-the-roe-v-wade-leaker/
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"...the baby."
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Bill Kristol
@BillKristol
It's become pretty clear the leaks about internal Court deliberations (if not the draft opinion itself) are from the Thomas-Alito camp, and are designed to weaken the Chief Justice and intimidate any of the newer justices from joining him for fear of seeming weak or unprincipled.
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1524379116828569600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524379116828569600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F05%2F11%2Fbill-kristol-thinks-its-pretty-clear-that-leaked-internal-scotus-info-came-from-the-thomas-alito-camp%2F
Oookay :O
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Billy seems like the type to blame the woman for getting beaten because she served dinner 5 minutes late.
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https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1524379116828569600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524379116828569600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F05%2F11%2Fbill-kristol-thinks-its-pretty-clear-that-leaked-internal-scotus-info-came-from-the-thomas-alito-camp%2F
Oookay :O
I'm good with that.
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Bill Kristol
@BillKristol
It's become pretty clear the leaks about internal Court deliberations (if not the draft opinion itself) are from the Thomas-Alito camp, and are designed to weaken the Chief Justice and intimidate any of the newer justices from joining him for fear of seeming weak or unprincipled.
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1524379116828569600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524379116828569600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F05%2F11%2Fbill-kristol-thinks-its-pretty-clear-that-leaked-internal-scotus-info-came-from-the-thomas-alito-camp%2F
Oookay :O
Interesting. An article I read a couple of days ago was very convincing that the leak was one of Sotomayor's clerks.
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https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1524379116828569600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524379116828569600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F05%2F11%2Fbill-kristol-thinks-its-pretty-clear-that-leaked-internal-scotus-info-came-from-the-thomas-alito-camp%2F
Oookay :O
Interesting. An article I read a couple of days ago was very convincing that the leak was one of Sotomayor's clerks.
The story I heard was the clerk's spouse has ties to the outfit that broke the story. Used to work with the reporter. And the clerk has some history of being radically pro-abortion. No proof just circumstantial looking at who had access to the draft opinion.
It makes me wonder if the clerk's intent was not to leak it, but to just pass on information about the upcoming decision and the new outfit went with it. No excuse.
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Tangent, but too true comment I just saw:
I never watched A Handmaid's Tale, but the company that makes those costumes could end these demonstrations right now if they stop selling them in size XXL.
:rofl:
About 90% of these protestors are women I wouldn't touch with someone else's ten foot pole. I think a lot of them protest in hopes of making people believe that pregnancy is something they would ever have to worry about.
Also, Amy Barrett knows nothing about being pregnant:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justice-barrett-mom-5-doesnt-know-full-term-pregnancy-handmaid-protester
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Tangent, but too true comment I just saw:
:rofl:
About 90% of these protestors are women I wouldn't touch with someone else's ten foot pole. I think a lot of them protest in hopes of making people believe that pregnancy is something they would ever have to worry about.
I wasn't going there but.. yeah
It's not that most of them are naturally ugly but that most of them seem to have chosen to be ugly
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I wasn't going there but.. yeah
Well, I did, :laugh: because I remember in college when all the super liberal protest chicks were almost all hotties.
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Well, I did, :laugh: because I remember in college when all the super liberal protest chicks were almost all hotties.
I always figured those were just the ones the media took pictures of.
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If she is obese, with blue hair and tattoos you can be sure she is a left wing feminist loon.
Unfortunately, there are attractive women that are feminist leftists as well.
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Tangent, but too true comment I just saw:
I never watched A Handmaid's Tale, but the company that makes those costumes could end these demonstrations right now if they stop selling them in size XXL.]
Be thankful that they were wearing masks.
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Unbiased journalism:
NEW:
@shannon_liao
and I reached out to over 20 major video game companies about whether they intend to speak up in favor of reproductive rights or provide monetary aid to employees. just a few said yes. most said nothing at all
Not, "What is you're position?" but, "Are you going to be in favor of the Washington Post's position, or are we going to have to run a smear and boycott campaign on you?"
I guess that the option of staying out of politics is no longer allowed.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/12/washington-posts-video-game-reporter-looks-into-gaming-companies-support-for-reproductive-rights/
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I guess that the option of staying out of politics is no longer allowed.
With the left if you don't openly support and push full on leftist views you are racial far right and must be destroyed. There is no middle ground or neutrality
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SCOTUS Justices Seek Protection From Mobs By Lighting The Rittenhouse Signal
https://babylonbee.com/news/scotus-justices-seek-protection-from-mobs-by-lighting-the-rittenhouse-signal
(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-11264-2.jpg)
According to eyewitnesses, the rage-filled pro-aborts outside the justices' houses saw the light in the sky and quickly dispersed, as they had learned to fear the night.
With the crisis averted, Justice Kavanaugh then invited Kyle into his house to play beer pong.
=D =D
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With the crisis averted, Justice Kavanaugh then invited Kyle into his house to play beer pong.
Uh-oh. Kyle's still a minor.
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Anyone remember the 70s SNL retroactive abortion skit?
Can't find it on YT but it's got to out there somewhere
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Can you imagine the media outrage if protestors were outside Justice Sotomayor’s house?
— Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) May 11, 2022
yep
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SCOTUS Justices Seek Protection From Mobs By Lighting The Rittenhouse Signal
https://babylonbee.com/news/scotus-justices-seek-protection-from-mobs-by-lighting-the-rittenhouse-signal
"Help me Obi-Wan Kyle, you're my only hope."
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https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/05/13/alito-on-scotus-leak-no-comment-mostly-n469175
After turning down a side street to chant outside Kavanaugh’s house, they walked a few blocks over to Chief Justice John Roberts’s, where they did more call-and-response, and argued over whether it would be more gender inclusive to use the term uterus or vagina.
On the one hand: imagine how much more effective these sickos would be, if they weren't such caricatures of themselves?
On the other: How feckless are Americans these days, that we've let such precious little clowns take over, and make us look like the crazy insurrectionists at the same time?
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With the left if you don't openly support and push full on leftist views you are racial far right and must be destroyed. There is no middle ground or neutrality
Case in point
Business magazine Fast Company is pressuring companies to take a "survey" for a report on their abortion stance and vows to "disclose" which companies refuse to take it. https://t.co/t59V8VAPRF
— Joseph A. Wulfsohn (@JosephWulfsohn) May 14, 2022
In an email to one of the companies seen by Fox News, Fast Company says it is working on an "editorial package" about "how corporate silence on abortion impacts employees" and "what responsibility of businesses should be when it comes to abortion care and access."
2/
— Joseph A. Wulfsohn (@JosephWulfsohn) May 14, 2022
Fast Company vows to ‘disclose’ those companies that don’t take its ‘survey’ on their abortion stance
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/14/fast-company-vows-to-disclose-those-companies-that-dont-take-its-survey-on-their-abortion-stance/
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It appears that DHS's philosophy is that since we expect the far left to violently riot when they don't get their way, it doesn't qualify as domestic terrorism.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/18/dhs-memo-reportedly-clarifies-that-pro-abort-threats-against-scotus-dont-necessarily-constitute-domestic-violent-extremism-or-illegal-activity/
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It appears that DHS's philosophy is that since we expect the far left to violently riot when they don't get their way, it doesn't qualify as domestic terrorism.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/18/dhs-memo-reportedly-clarifies-that-pro-abort-threats-against-scotus-dont-necessarily-constitute-domestic-violent-extremism-or-illegal-activity/
Translation: It doesn't count when it is our own goons causing the terror.
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Whatever side of the issue you are on, you have to appreciate this knockout punch during a congressional hearing where congressmen (both sides) love to grandstand and attack with "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" without giving the witness a chance to defend themselves.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/18/left-him-stuttering-americans-united-for-life-ceo-gives-rep-jamie-raskin-just-enough-rope-to-hang-himself-and-other-pro-abort-dems/
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"Just enough rope to hang himself"
How apt.
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The ends justify the means for the left. Always. The rule of law means absolutely nothing for them.
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The ends justify the means for the left. Always. The rule of law means absolutely nothing for them.
Always pays to remember that. However, I might amend it to say "...for the left and politicians."
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It appears that DHS's philosophy is that since we expect the far left to violently riot when they don't get their way, it doesn't qualify as domestic terrorism.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/18/dhs-memo-reportedly-clarifies-that-pro-abort-threats-against-scotus-dont-necessarily-constitute-domestic-violent-extremism-or-illegal-activity/
About that
DOOCY: "Are these threats from pro-abortion activists or anti-abortion activists?"
Karine Jean-Pierre: "It seems like to us that it is very one-sided on what we call out as intimidation or as violence." pic.twitter.com/kEq2PI1fWT
— Townhall.com (@townhallcom) May 18, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/18/karine-jean-pierre-says-it-seems-very-one-sided-who-is-calling-for-violence-against-the-supreme-court/
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"Full stop."
https://twitter.com/i/status/1527017894588170240
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/18/abortion-advocate-wont-make-a-distinction-between-a-baby-whos-one-hour-old-and-one-still-in-the-birth-canal/
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“As the president said, if your actions result in only saving one life, they’re worth taking. But I’m convinced we can affect the well-being of millions of americans and take thousands of people out of harm’s way if we act responsibly.”
- Joe Biden 2013
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What difference is there from killing a late term fetus and a born child?
There is no meaningful difference.
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What difference is there from killing a late term fetus and a born child?
There is no meaningful difference.
One's easier to explain away.
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Apparently you can't live and love without abortion
Kamala Harris says that overturning Roe v. Wade would be on an assault on the right "to live and love without interference from the government." pic.twitter.com/IoNdQYO38n
— Townhall.com (@townhallcom) May 19, 2022
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/19/kamala-harris-overturning-roe-v-wade-would-be-a-direct-assault-on-the-fundamental-right-to-live-and-love-without-govt-interference-video/
Well now you know
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And to top that take
Get ready for the jihad
They're not going to be satisfied with forced birth state by state. They're going to go for a national forced birth law. And then they're coming for everything else. The SCOTUS ending "right to privacy" puts it ALL ON THE TABLE: gay marriage, LGBTQ rights, anti-discrimination… https://t.co/bLJLKMfxkX
— Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid 😷 (@JoyAnnReid) May 20, 2022
Y'all keep comforting yourselves, believing Alito and the other Christian nationalists on the SCOTUS won't come for your communities. Making abortion illegal will satisfy them, right? …Christian nationalists believe they are fighting a war for God. People in a jihad don't stop.
— Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid 😷 (@JoyAnnReid) May 20, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/literally-too-dumb-to-insult-joy-reid-jumps-the-shark-and-goes-off-the-tracks-in-crazy-bigoted-claim-about-national-forced-birth-law/
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So, we have a nation-wide prohibition on enslaving people (and a thousand lesser crimes). What, exactly, is so horrifying about a nation-wide ban on killing people in the womb?
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So, we have a nation-wide prohibition on enslaving people (and a thousand lesser crimes). What, exactly, is so horrifying about a nation-wide ban on killing people in the womb?
I'd note that the now nationwide ban on enslaving people was initially almost completely driven by crazy Christian abolitionists as well.
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I'd note that the now nationwide ban on enslaving people was initially almost completely driven by crazy Christian abolitionists as well.
And they were for the most part republicans.
Ask any recent HS and/or college grad and many will tell you democrats.
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And they were for the most part republicans.
The early abolitionists significantly predate the republican party, but good point.
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The early abolitionists significantly predate the republican party, but good point.
The early abolitionists were what formed the Republican Party.
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And they were for the most part republicans.
Ask any recent HS and/or college grad and many will tell you democrats.
I wonder who told them that? Oh yeah, democrats.
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I wonder who told them that? Oh yeah, democrats.
I think for the most part they're leaving it out while training their students to automatically assume dem.
Also many will tell you the Ds and Rs switched sides at some point so that the Rs then are today's Ds and vice versa so it was actually the Ds who freed the slaves.
No wonder our kids are so confused now
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The early abolitionists were what formed the Republican Party.
My understanding is, they were a radical fringe at the time, so they would have only been a small percentage of the early Republicans. Most Republicans would have been anti-slavery, but not abolitionist.
If I correctly recall, the Garrisonian wing of the abolitionist movement wouldn't involve themselves in party politics. To do so would legitimize the American political system, which was tainted by slavery.
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Back on target
AOC thought we needed another reason to despise her
AOC claims that the notion that abortion is ‘harming a life’ is just something toxic ‘fundamentalist Christians’ made up [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/20/aoc-claims-that-the-notion-that-abortion-is-harming-a-life-is-just-something-toxic-fundamentalist-christians-made-up-video/
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BREAKING: San Francisco @ArchCordileone announces that Speaker Nancy Pelosi is barred from receiving Holy Communion due to her public support of abortion.https://t.co/ohwloPzOBE
— Adam Shaw (C) (@AdamShawNY) May 20, 2022
.@ArchCordileone tells Pelosi she is not to present herself for communion "until such time as you publically repudiate your advocacy for the legitimacy of abortion and confess and receive absolution of this grave sin in the sacrament of Penance." https://t.co/ohwloPzOBE
— Adam Shaw (C) (@AdamShawNY) May 20, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/san-fran-archbishop-cordileone-bars-nancy-pelosi-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-her-very-public-support-of-abortion/
Waiting on Pelosi's response [popcorn]
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The early abolitionists were what formed the Republican Party.
And they were racist AF about it still. Most of them wanted to ship the poor benighted negroes across the Pond to Liberia; nevermind they weren't born there, and more than likely even their grandparents weren't born there.
Northern anti-slavery was about the 3/5 compromise in representation, along with profits from industrialization and replacing the low-tech meat machine slaves that presented no profit for Northern industrial concerns, with modern 19th century machinery to reduce labor (that was produced in Northern States).
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And they were racist AF about it still. Most of them wanted to ship the poor benighted negroes across the Pond to Liberia; nevermind they weren't born there, and more than likely even their grandparents weren't born there.
Northern anti-slavery was about the 3/5 compromise in representation, along with profits from industrialization and replacing the low-tech meat machine slaves that presented no profit for Northern industrial concerns, with modern 19th century machinery to reduce labor (that was produced in Northern States).
I think you might want to check your sources on this post. Off-shoring the freedmen was certainly on the table in those days, but was it really the favored solution of "most" abolitionists?
Also, wouldn't ending slavery mean the South gets more representation? They'd get to count the other 2/5 of the population. (Some of the freedmen might go north, but still).
Finally, was slave labor really a threat to Northern manufacturing? The North seems to have been doing just fine on that score. Or do you refer to mechanized farm implements? I thought that was largely a post-war development. Tractors came along decades later, right?
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https://youtu.be/hTLHxpUQ_B8
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Also, wouldn't ending slavery mean the South gets more representation? They'd get to count the other 2/5 of the population. (Some of the freedmen might go north, but still).
3/5 Compromise dictated the number of allotted Representatives that slave-owning States would get, because House Delegates and Electoral College count were a function of population. Your comment here is rather tone-deaf and I don't think you thought it through completely.
Slaves could not vote in the South, so the representational "weight" of the slaves was a State-level communal asset enjoyed by the voting populace as a function of having more votes in the House of Representatives and Electoral College.
Once slaves were freed and able to vote, the representational weight of the Southern States as a function of House Delegates and Electoral College count did indeed increase... but the votes of the land-owners and former slave-owners were cancelled out by the enormous increase in former slaves that could now vote and may not vote in the same manner as the former slave-owner. Which was the whole reason for the Jim Crow laws and voter intimidation/suppression actions of certain groups.
I think you might want to check your sources on this post. Off-shoring the freedmen was certainly on the table in those days, but was it really the favored solution of "most" abolitionists?
I'm content to be challenged on that; it's been awhile since I've read anything about the Civil War and Abolitionist movement. My stance is based on content I encountered and could be weighted by anecdotal experience rather than comprehensive analysis. Then again, the same could be same for your rebuttal.
Finally, was slave labor really a threat to Northern manufacturing? The North seems to have been doing just fine on that score. Or do you refer to mechanized farm implements? I thought that was largely a post-war development. Tractors came along decades later, right?
The first "combine" was the McCormick Reaper, invented in the 1830's.
https://www.britannica.com/video/226769/why-was-the-McCormick-Reaper-so-important
When grain was harvested by hand, a huge number of laborers were required. A farmer who didn’t have enough people to complete the harvest had to either accept crop loss or pay exorbitant wages to hire peak-season workers. The McCormick reaper offered hope to farmers that the yield of their fields might no longer be limited by the number of available farmhands. Over the next few decades, news of the invention spread to every part of the United States—and even across the pond to England and France. By 1856 McCormick was selling more than 4,000 mechanical reapers to farmers each year.
1849 saw the introduction of the first commercial chemical fertilizers. John Deere and others started offering interchangeable blade plows around this time, and the 1860's saw the introduction of gang plows with multiple bits able to produce multiple furrows.
Lots of this tech depended upon animals to make use of, but they were absolutely labor savers and cut dependence on either hired hands or slaves. And predominantly manufactured and sold by Northern industrial centers.
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3/5 Compromise dictated the number of allotted Representatives that slave-owning States would get, because House Delegates and Electoral College count were a function of population. Your comment here is rather tone-deaf and I don't think you thought it through completely.
Slaves could not vote in the South, so the representational "weight" of the slaves was a State-level communal asset enjoyed by the voting populace as a function of having more votes in the House of Representatives and Electoral College.
Once slaves were freed and able to vote, the representational weight of the Southern States as a function of House Delegates and Electoral College count did indeed increase... but the votes of the land-owners and former slave-owners were cancelled out by the enormous increase in former slaves that could now vote and may not vote in the same manner as the former slave-owner. Which was the whole reason for the Jim Crow laws and voter intimidation/suppression actions of certain groups.
Not sure what you mean by "tone-deaf."
When you brought up the 3/5 clause, I guess you were talking about the added advantage the slave-owners got, from having extra representation. Kinda obvious now that I think about it, but for some reason I thought you meant they wanted to end slavery so the 3/5 thing would no longer be a factor. Also, I was assuming the freedmen would not get to vote (or not much). Which is pretty much what happened.
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https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/san-fran-archbishop-cordileone-bars-nancy-pelosi-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-her-very-public-support-of-abortion/
Waiting on Pelosi's response [popcorn]
Well, she's a DEVOUT Catholic, don't you know, just like our Beloved President, who thinks only of his Christian duty as a light that guides him from morning until night...
But obviously that shaman, yes SHAMAN! is nothing but a racist fascist who knows nothing about God's love.
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Letting your religion guide you in your politickin' - it's so beautiful and wholesome and spiritual. If you're a Leftist.
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Not sure what to make of this:
https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-religion-alabama-2efb7c0ca49d6d7260773aad5ee956fa
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https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/san-fran-archbishop-cordileone-bars-nancy-pelosi-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-her-very-public-support-of-abortion/
Maybe she can find a defrocked or renegade priest to administer it in a back room somewhere.
I'm not signing this one so G-d won't know who posted it.
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Not sure what to make of this:
https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-religion-alabama-2efb7c0ca49d6d7260773aad5ee956fa
At one the clinics around here, students from a nearby "seminary" have been known to escort women to and from the parking lot.
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Well remember, religious views should ONLY be a litmus test when the left is judging the right.
The other way around? Well that's just an incredibly unconstitutional stance to take.
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/350930-feinstein-durbin-dangerously-close-to-pushing-religious-test-on-judge/
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Meanwhile the left keeps the old traditions of stoning and burning heretics alive for anyone who dares question their religion
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Not sure what to make of this:
https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-religion-alabama-2efb7c0ca49d6d7260773aad5ee956fa
The ELCA has come out in support of abortion. There are idiots willing to twist scripture in many directions.
They try to claim they’re following god’s call to be compassionate. How helping a woman murder her child is compassionate is beyond me. If she’s so poor she’s worried about being able to feed the kid, compassion would be helping them find the resources (welfare, job training for her or baby-daddy, etc) to be able to afford to care for the child. If she’s in a domestic violence situation compassion would be helping her escape that domestic violence, not putting her right back into it. If she was a rape victim (and let’s also be clear here that rape accounts for at absolute most 2% of abortions, and probably a lot less than that) compassion would be helping her through the process of reporting and prosecuting the rape and healing from the trauma (mental as well as physical) of the violence of the rape.
And in all cases compassion for the child would entail informing the woman of alternatives to abortion, whether that meant helping her find the resources to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.
And before anyone trots out the “necessary to save the life of the mother” there is no such thing as abortion being necessary to save the life of mother. There are medical treatments that are known to result in fetal death that are necessary to save the mother. But the death of the child is an unfortunate side effect of saving the mother. Yes, there are cases where a pregnancy must be ended to save the mother but in those cases deliberately killing the child is not required. Premature delivery may required, and it’s possible the child could die as a result, but outright killing them is unnecessary to the goal of saving the mother.
Someone will probably say “Well, what about ectopic pregnancy? You want to make the mom bleed to death or die of infection rather than save her life by aborting the pregnancy!!” An ectopic pregnancy (defined as any time a zygote attempts to implant outside the uterus, most commonly but not exclusively in the Fallopian tube) is not viable (like maybe 1 in 100,000 being able to carry to viability is extremely generous odds). If tubal it’s categorically impossible to carry to anything close to viability, let alone full term. So the baby is not going survive no matter what anyone does. So treating the woman to save her life and future fertility is the goal. That is not “abortion”. Even though fetal death is a necessary outcome of the treatment in that case, it is not the express goal. Even the most hard-core religious pro-lifers I know don’t consider treating an ectopic pregnancy as an abortion.
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^^^Up until this very moment, I had no idea that anyone considered managing an ectopic pregnancy to be an abortion. If diagnosed early enough, we use methotrexate and this preserves future fertility without damaging the Fallopian tube. If diagnosed later, surgery is the usual option.
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^^^Up until this very moment, I had no idea that anyone considered managing an ectopic pregnancy to be an abortion. If diagnosed early enough, we use methotrexate and this preserves future fertility without damaging the Fallopian tube. If diagnosed later, surgery is the usual option.
It’s mostly far left pro-abortion (not just “choice”) activists that trot that out to try an make pro-lifers look ridiculous to those on the fence.
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^^^Up until this very moment, I had no idea that anyone considered managing an ectopic pregnancy to be an abortion.
I hadn’t either. I guess there are extremists on every side. I wonder if the people who would consider treating an ectopic pregnancy to be abortion make up a smaller or larger percent of the anti-abortion camp than the percentage of the pro-abortion camp who believe late-term or immediate post-birth abortions should be legal.
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In other news, Pelosi's archbishop has formally notified her that she is not to present herself for Holy Communion and, if she does so anyway, the officiant is not to administer Communion to her.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san-francisco-archbishop-pelosi-communion-abortion-support
So much for her claims that she is a "devout, practicing Catholic" and that her pro-abortion stance is in keeping with Roman Catholic teaching and theology.
{Edit} Oops. 230RN beat me to it.
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You're behind the times on that one, Hawk...
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3rd post :rofl:
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And they were racist AF about it still. Most of them wanted to ship the poor benighted negroes across the Pond to Liberia; nevermind they weren't born there, and more than likely even their grandparents weren't born there.
Northern anti-slavery was about the 3/5 compromise in representation, along with profits from industrialization and replacing the low-tech meat machine slaves that presented no profit for Northern industrial concerns, with modern 19th century machinery to reduce labor (that was produced in Northern States).
While at the same time the location with the largest population of slaves per capita was Manhattan.
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The most pertinent things I take away from the slavery comparison are that just because religious extremists are the first to notice a particular moral crisis, doesn’t automatically make it less important or the violations less heinous. Secondly, that it doesn’t require that you be religious at all to abhor either slavery or abortion. Finally, just as there were plenty of churchgoing slave owners there are plenty of pro-abortion people who are religious. Having a religious tradition doesn’t always help you to see injustice, especially if the position morality requires is unpopular or inconvenient.
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https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/san-fran-archbishop-cordileone-bars-nancy-pelosi-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-her-very-public-support-of-abortion/
The San Francisco Examiner editorial board is "demanding" that the Pope remove Archbishop Cordileone:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/sf-examiner-editorial-board-demands-pope-remove-archbishop-who-barred-pelosi-communion-abortion
Even by San Francisco standards, that is some arrogant presumption (dare I say "chutzpah"?)
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The San Francisco Examiner editorial board is "demanding" that the Pope remove Archbishop Cordileone:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/sf-examiner-editorial-board-demands-pope-remove-archbishop-who-barred-pelosi-communion-abortion
Even by San Francisco standards, that is some arrogant presumption (dare I say "chutzpah"?)
These editorial boards all think they are "make or break" Kingmakers. It's some kind of arrogance they all have going on.
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Are we surprised?
at all?
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Because of Amy Coney Barrett, one day a kid might end up reading a book about her because his mother couldn't abort him.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/24/critic-bets-one-day-a-kid-will-read-amy-coney-barrett-biography-without-realizing-they-exist-because-she-took-away-their-mothers-choice/
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A few years ago, it came out that a local minister's wife was working at an abortion clinic. The woman and her husband did not see any issue with it.
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:rofl:
Nancy Pelosi Draws Up Articles Of Impeachment Against The Pope
https://babylonbee.com/news/nancy-pelosi-draws-up-articles-of-impeachment-against-the-pope
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The last guy set himself on fire you coward
Abortion and climate activist scales the barricades around the Supreme Court, chains himself to fence
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/06/abortion-and-climate-activist-scales-the-barricades-around-the-supreme-court-chains-himself-to-fence/
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Things are getting sporty in Joel Osteen's church:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/abortion-activists-interrupt-joel-osteen-lakewood-church
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/06/720/405/osteen-protest.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Not sure what the green "hands" are about.
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Not sure what the green "hands" are about.
From the story I posted above
He explains that the green bandana is inspired by a pro-choice movement in Latin America that uses the same. pic.twitter.com/gzAxZFvxAX
— Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) June 6, 2022
I guess green is now pro-"choice"?
Now I'm getting Soylent Green vibes. It's babies! [barf]
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They left their underwear on? Pathetic. A real activist would have taken it all off. ;/
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Took her to the pavement
Biden protester rushes motorcade, gets tackled by Secret Service agent in LA
The protester appeared to be advocating for abortion rights
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-protester-tackled-secret-service
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The abortion ban is going to kill us.
Oh the irony.
If it goes back to the states, she might be able to abort her kid up to year 26.
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The group “Shut Down DC” plans to “blockade the streets around the Supreme Court” on Monday, according to its website, as part of a protest that aims to “shut down” the Supreme Court as it prepares to hand down a ruling that could overturn Roe v. Wade. https://t.co/CRuZThYPnd
— The New York Sun (@NewYorkSun) June 11, 2022
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/06/11/left-wing-activist-organizations-plans-for-monday-in-dc-sounds-insurrection-y/
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It's NOT Incitement When THEY Do It
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYkXE3PC3M
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Full statement from Jane's Revenge, announcing that it's "open season" on pro-life pregnancy centers.
Future measures "may not come in the form of something so easily cleaned up as fire and graffiti," the terrorist group threatens.
Merrick Garland????? pic.twitter.com/zxnB53mVzi
— Caroline Downey (@carolinedowney_) June 15, 2022
“From here forward, any anti-choice group who closes their doors, and stops operating will no longer be a target. But until you do, it’s open season, and we know where your operations are,” they write. And allies who doubt their sincerity are urged to “Go do one of your own. You are already one of us. Everyone with the urge to paint, to burn, to cut, to jam: now is the time. Go forth and manifest the things you wish to see.”
Terrorist organization Jane’s Revenge declares ‘open season’ on ‘anti-choice’ groups; ‘The leash is off’
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/15/terrorist-organization-janes-revenge-declares-open-season-on-anti-choice-groups-the-leash-is-off/
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Does Kamala have the bail fund set up yet?
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Abortion Activists Target Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Her Children With Potential Violence
https://www.lifenews.com/2022/06/10/abortion-activists-target-justice-amy-coney-barrett-and-her-children-with-potential-violence/
https://americandefensenews.com/2022/06/13/far-left-group-threatens-to-target-justice-amy-coney-barretts-children-church-and-home/
Though the pro-abortion group denounced violence this week, it also posted several mocking and ominous messages on Twitter.
Ruth Sent Us mentioned Barrett’s children in a call to protest outside her home and a local elementary school. Barrett has seven children, and the youngest is 10.
“If you’re in the DC metro area, join us. Our protests at Barrett’s home moved the needle to this coverage,” the pro-abortion group wrote. “Falls Church is a People of Praise stronghold. She sends her seven kids to a People of Praise school that she sat on the Board of Directors for. She attends church DAILY.”
The group also mentioned the name of a local elementary school as a starting point for its protest.
The radical pro-abortion group sent another one indicating abortion activists know where Kavanaugh and his wife, Ashley, send their two daughters to school.
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The Revolution
War of 1812
The Mexican American War
Civil War
Indian Wars
Spanish American War
WW-I
WW-II
Korea
Vietnam
Gulf War
Gulf War II
Civil War II The Abortion War
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Abortion Activists Target Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Her Children With Potential Violence
The ends justify the means to leftists, always.
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Can you imagine the shitstorm if a "conservative" activist group posted the same kind of thinly veiled threats against any of the liberal judges and their families?
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Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
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Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
I see there have been 11 anti-abortion murders.
And over 63,000,000 human beings killed by the pro-choice crowd.
That is a pretty impressive kill to death ratio by the abortionists.
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Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
Yes. But here’s the difference. A handful of abortion clinics got firebombed a long time ago, and it’s STILL being used to paint the pro-lifers as violent lunatics. Something like 17 crisis pregnancy centers (places that actually support women through their pregnancy and try to help become self-sustaining) get firebombed in the last few weeks since the draft Dobbs vs Jackson opinion was leaked and NOBODY is saying anything outside of a few podcasts.
Also, pretty much all pro-life organizations condemn violence against abortion clinics and providers. The left is like “eh, they deserve it” when the violence comes from their side.
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Can you imagine the shitstorm if a "conservative" activist group posted the same kind of thinly veiled threats against any of the liberal judges and their families?
They don't have to, the MSM happily makes it up for them.
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Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
Um, no one needs to be reminded. The media's been giving those stories a lopsided amount of attention for decades.
Something like 17 crisis pregnancy centers (places that actually support women through their pregnancy and try to help become self-sustaining) get firebombed in the last few weeks since the draft Dobbs vs Jackson opinion was leaked and NOBODY is saying anything outside of a few podcasts.
These are the same people that have been saying for 50 years now that pro-lifers don't care about the women or children involved, and that we should shut up unless we are personally helping the mothers through (and after) their pregnancy.
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Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
What's life like being a progressive appologist?
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What's life like being a progressive appologist?
One of those people on the murdered list was a doctor that saved my wifes life many years ago so you can piss off.
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What's life like being a progressive appologist?
I wouldn't say they're progressives, Bob.
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One of those people on the murdered list was a doctor that saved my wifes life many years ago so you can piss off.
And?
If they were a bystander that's tragic.
If they were a participant in killing babies, that's karma.
Neither of those negates my statement that comparing a dozen attacks over a span of decades to dozens of attacks over the span of months plus about 60 odd million infanticides is false moral equivalency and gas lighting.
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And yet, not everyone on this board or in American society shares your opinion. Huh.
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And yet, not everyone on this board or in American society shares your opinion. Huh.
You're right, in this country and on this forum there are some really sick people who think killing infants in the womb is okey dokey.
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You're right, in this country and on this forum there are some really sick people who think killing infants in the womb is okey dokey.
So it is OK to kill those people, right? And kill the women seeking an abortion? Karma, and the end justifies the means?
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So it is OK to kill those people, right? And kill the women seeking an abortion? Karma, and the end justifies the means?
Don't care. You still tried to what-about-them and curry sympathy for American Genocide.
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I am not arguing about abortion. That is a rabbit hole we can dump to another thread. It isn't going to get us anywhere.
I just hope this wasn't some kind of tease and the Supreme Court follows through with what they have seemingly decided. Regardless of your thoughts on the subject, Roe vs Wade was a bad decision. It should have been left to the states or state legislatures. I hope it is a trend for those types of decisions.
I do sort of wonder if abortion may not have gotten to the current point if the one party hadn't gotten the FedGov to fund abortions and fund/support pro-abortion groups. It still would have been a contentious issue, but may not have been pushed to the present status where one part is bordering on support for infanticide. Seems like all issues are driven by the extremes.
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So it is OK to kill those people, right? And kill the women seeking an abortion? Karma, and the end justifies the means?
It's not "OK." It's the duty of government to try murderers [abortionists and their customers], and if proven guilty, execute them. Our government should never have created a situation where some people thought they had to go vigilante lynch-mob, to protect innocent children from being slaughtered.
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Bit of a disconnect here
Eight dads are sharing how abortion has helped them become the fathers they are today, on what experts believe will likely be the last Father’s Day before the Supreme Court issues a ruling that would overturn Roe v Wade.
The TODAY show celebrates Father’s Day with an article on how abortion helped 8 dads ‘become the fathers they are today’
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/17/the-today-show-celebrates-fathers-day-with-an-article-on-how-abortion-helped-8-dads-become-the-fathers-they-are-today/
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Brian Poweeeer!
KAMALA HARRIS: “There’s nothing about [abortion] that will require anyone to abandon their faith” pic.twitter.com/6DsMBg94Ui
— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) June 18, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/18/kamala-harris-says-theres-nothing-about-abortion-that-would-require-anyone-to-change-their-faith/
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:facepalm:
Libs of TikTok finds a girl who’d get pregnant just to have the abortion
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/20/libs-of-tiktok-finds-a-girl-whod-get-pregnant-just-to-have-the-abortion/
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She seems nice.
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She seems nice.
Most likely in the no-go zone of the hot/crazy matrix.
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A pro-abortion protester heckles at activists with Students for Life, she tells them to “suck my dick, bitch” and mimics jerking off.
Hard to hear, I think she said,
“You will not take my right away! I will always get an abortion! I’ll go in a back alley and will *expletive deleted*ing die!” pic.twitter.com/5LDKPahzK0
— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) June 21, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/21/i-will-always-get-an-abortion-julio-rosas-shares-video-of-some-pro-abortion-protesters-in-front-of-scotus/
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/huh.gif?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
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Which one is crazier: Reply #350 or #353?
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Which one is crazier: Reply #350 or #353?
Whichever one you choose someone will be along shortly to top it.
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Whichever one you choose someone will be along shortly to top it.
... especially if Roe v. Wade is overturned.
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https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/21/i-will-always-get-an-abortion-julio-rosas-shares-video-of-some-pro-abortion-protesters-in-front-of-scotus/
Hard to hear, I think she said,
“You will not take my right away! I will always get an abortion! I’ll go in a back alley and will *expletive deleted*ing die!” pic.twitter.com/5LDKPahzK0
— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) June 21, 2022
Those terms are acceptable.
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Most likely in the no-go zone of the hot/crazy matrix.
Well, she DID say she's psycho ...
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https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ag-ellison-minnesota-visitors-seeking-legal-abortion-wont-be-prosecuted/
Is there any talk what so ever about future abortion is illegal states going after their own residents who may seek an abortion in a future abortion is legal state? I just find it odd that the MN AG said this.
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https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ag-ellison-minnesota-visitors-seeking-legal-abortion-wont-be-prosecuted/
Is there any talk what so ever about future abortion us illegal states going after their own residents who may seek an abortion in a future abortion is legal state? I just find it odd that the MN AG said this.
It didn't need to be said; of course they wouldn't be prosecuted because no law was broken in MN. Ellison likes to hear himself talk, plus he's sucking-up to the Democrat national party.
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The USA prosecutes people who go overseas to sexually exploit children. Even if it’s not illegal (or enforced if it is) where they did that. It’s not unthinkable that politicians in some red state could enact legislation that made travel or abetting travel for the express purpose of obtaining an abortion illegal. I doubt they could prosecute the doctor/clinic personnel in the blue state, but they could go after the woman and anyone who knowingly assisted in the travel (paying for plane/bus/train/Uber fare, loaning a vehicle, actually driving the woman there, etc). Just maybe not for the abortion per se.
The problem, logistically at least, is that, unless someone decides to make themselves a test case like Larry Flynt and his buddies with challenging anti-pornography laws in the 70’s, you can’t really know why any given woman is traveling from Wyoming to Minnesota. We don’t require women to register their menstrual cycles, thankfully, so it’s impossible to know if a woman is pregnant (she could just be fat). So, without a massive surveillance state, it would only be applied to women and their abettors when someone decides to tattle on their pregnancy. Or as a matter of revenge when a relationship goes sour.
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If I squint, I can see another way
Patient list obtained from abortion provider (in whatever fashion) given to agent of anti abortion state.
Assuming, of course, such records are kept (and people don't use false credentials)
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If I squint, I can see another way
Patient list obtained from abortion provider (in whatever fashion) given to agent of anti abortion state.
Assuming, of course, such records are kept (and people don't use false credentials)
Highly likely to be ruled inadmissible as evidence as it would have to have been obtained illegally in such an example. Either a violation of patient privacy by a clinic worker, or robbery, or such.
Listen, I’m as pro-life as as most people here, but I’m also opposed to totalitarian regimes. And criminalizing travel to other states to obtain an abortion requires a degree of totalitarianism I’m very opposed to.
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Everyone knows that everything outside major metros is Footloose Country, and people in MAGA hats will make you have their babies.
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Seem to recall a work around on inadmissable evidence. Something like "codeveloped" or some such
Basically, the police claiming that evidence had been found/developed, and the inadmissible was just corroboration of the good stuff.
Not saying I like it. Not saying I would condone it. But COULD see someone using it
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As far as I know, pro-life advocates and the laws they support have not generally gone after the people getting the abortion. They targeted the doctors/clinics. I can see them trying to go after people recruiting women for abortions in states where it is illegal. I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to collect the evidence once police have enough to subpoena phone records and such. As far as identifying them in the first place, eventually you are going to see parents or friends or prospective fathers report the people.
I don't know how that will work out in the courts, but I fully expect abortion advocates to push the limits as far as they can in ban states forcing pro-life advocates to react to try to stop them.
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The USA prosecutes people who go overseas to sexually exploit children. Even if it’s not illegal (or enforced if it is) where they did that. It’s not unthinkable that politicians in some red state could enact legislation that made travel or abetting travel for the express purpose of obtaining an abortion illegal. I doubt they could prosecute the doctor/clinic personnel in the blue state, but they could go after the woman and anyone who knowingly assisted in the travel (paying for plane/bus/train/Uber fare, loaning a vehicle, actually driving the woman there, etc). Just maybe not for the abortion per se.
The problem, logistically at least, is that, unless someone decides to make themselves a test case like Larry Flynt and his buddies with challenging anti-pornography laws in the 70’s, you can’t really know why any given woman is traveling from Wyoming to Minnesota. We don’t require women to register their menstrual cycles, thankfully, so it’s impossible to know if a woman is pregnant (she could just be fat). So, without a massive surveillance state, it would only be applied to women and their abettors when someone decides to tattle on their pregnancy. Or as a matter of revenge when a relationship goes sour.
The Atty General of Minnesota has no say-so about other states trying to prosecute women who come here for an abortion. (it's unlikely they would do that anyway) Perhaps he can say that his office will not cooperate with any such prosecutions, but IFAIK that's not what he said. Perhaps he's an idiot and doesn't realize that he doesn't prosecute alleged crime in other states. I wouldn't totally rule out the idiot angle, but I think he's just grandstanding; perhaps has aspirations for a federal appointment or plans to run for US Senate and wants DNC and Soros backing
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Not a big fan of the idea of prosecuting someone for committing an act that is not a crime in the jurisdiction where it was committed. (yes the underage sex thing is egregious and someone that travels to screw kids is scum I'm not sure about prosecuting them at home, better they should have a tragic and fatal accident while still abroad)
May be a bit of a reach but let's say I own some evil assault type weapons that are illegal in California. I don't live in California but I travel there (gourd know why) but I leave my evil assault type weapon at home. Under the idea of being able to prosecute someone for doing something that is illegal in the location of prosecution but not in the location it was done in, California could prosecute people from out of state for owning "illegal assault weapons" when they enter California even though they ae not in possession of the weapon. Or prosecute a resident that owns an "illegal assault weapon" but keeps it at a 2nd residence in another state.
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RvW you're up!
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Speaking of which
BREAKING: The Department of Homeland Security is communicating with Catholic Churches and pregnancy centers, telling them to be prepared for a "Night of Rage" by pro-abortion groups pledging "extreme violence" the night of the Dobbs decision.
— Lila Rose (@LilaGraceRose) June 23, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/23/report-dhs-warning-pregnancy-crisis-centers-to-be-prepared-for-a-night-of-rage/
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Speaking of whichhttps://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/23/report-dhs-warning-pregnancy-crisis-centers-to-be-prepared-for-a-night-of-rage/
I don't doubt there are notices going out, but looking at that one a little sideways. "Night of rage" is not typical DHS language. They would more likely say something like "Be prepared for highly elevated chances of violent and destructive behavior directed at organizations, buildings, and individuals". Besides, they have been issuing heightened-awareness notices for a week or two.
Brad
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I don't doubt there are notices going out, but looking at that one a little sideways. "Night of rage" is not typical DHS language. They would more likely say something like "Be prepared for highly elevated chances of violent and destructive behavior directed at organizations, buildings, and individuals". Besides, they have been issuing heightened-awareness notices for a week or two.
Brad
Kind of what I was thinking, someone is trying to spotlight themselves.
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Speaking of whichhttps://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/23/report-dhs-warning-pregnancy-crisis-centers-to-be-prepared-for-a-night-of-rage/
I am surprised that DHS didn't say be prepared as conservative organizations and white supremacists take to the streets to violently celebrate RvW being overturned. That's been their speed of late.
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RKL just kinda hit what my fear is
Because honestly, on either issue, I could see a DA trying to push such a prosecution as a grandstand.
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RKL just kinda hit what my fear is
Because honestly, on either issue, I could see a DA trying to push such a prosecution as a grandstand.
You're afraid they'll go after someone that's falsely accused, or someone that's guilty?
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You're afraid they'll go after someone that's falsely accused, or someone that's guilty?
So you'd be OK with a jurisdiction prosecuting someone that committed an act that is not a crime where the act was committed but is a crime where the prosecution occurs?
In oklahoma it is illegal to hunt alligators. If I travel to Louisiana and hunted and killed an alligator following all applicable state and federal laws in that jurisdiction should Oklahoma be able to prosecute me when I return home?
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So you'd be OK with a jurisdiction prosecuting someone that committed an act that is not a crime where the act was committed but is a crime where the prosecution occurs?
In oklahoma it is illegal to hunt alligators. If I travel to Louisiana and hunted and killed an alligator following all applicable state and federal laws in that jurisdiction should Oklahoma be able to prosecute me when I return home?
While not a legal action, this is a pretty good example that happened around ten years ago:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2012/08/08/california-wildlife-official-replaced-after-killing-mountain-lion-in-idaho/
A CA wildlife official came to Idaho to legally hunt mountain lions and was then forced to resign from his state position because CA doesn't allow lion hunting.
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Heinous, vile, and backward as I find abortion to be, I don't like the idea of one state enforcing their laws on someone who was in another state with different laws. I think that's a legitimate place for the Federal government to step in. That said, I'll withhold my personal moral panic for when a DA actually starts going after a woman for killing her baby in a state in which it is legal to do so, or when a state law authorizing such a prosecution becomes a serious possibility.
This particular argument strikes me as similar to the feigned concern by pro-abortion advocates about cases of rape or incest. That is to say, the extreme edge case (and in this case entirely speculative) Motte used whenever there is pushback on the much less palatable Bailey of wanting women to be able to kill their baby for any reason at any time.
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Just heard on Fox Business. Overturned.
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(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/h8D1urC.gif)
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That’s a nice birthday present!!
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https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/roe-wade-abortion-supreme-court-ruling/index.html
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Riots commence in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...
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Riots commence in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...
You mean "peaceful protests supported by the White House".
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I thought this was a great analogy:
This "federal ban on abortion" is as much a ban on abortion as overturning the national 55 mph speed limit was a ban on speed limits.
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Also, for this and the New York decision, thank you President Donald Trump.
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Also, for this and the New York decision, thank you President Donald Trump.
+1
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So you'd be OK with a jurisdiction prosecuting someone that committed an act that is not a crime where the act was committed but is a crime where the prosecution occurs?
In oklahoma it is illegal to hunt alligators. If I travel to Louisiana and hunted and killed an alligator following all applicable state and federal laws in that jurisdiction should Oklahoma be able to prosecute me when I return home?
I didn't say that, but are you OK with someone murdering their kid and getting away with it?
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They're the ones who are gonna have to live with it on their consciences. I don't wish to support it - financially, or otherwise.
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I didn't say that, but are you OK with someone murdering their kid and getting away with it?
I certainly don't agree with the concept of abortion as birth control however it is a fact, that as abhorrent as it is, abortion is currently legal on a federal level and will be controlled by the states as is appropriate. If you think it would be appropriate to prosecute a woman for travelling from her state of residence, where she is legally barred from getting an abortion to a state where it is legally allowed then my previous example is just as valid.
The only solution to satisfy your concern is to enact a federal law banning abortion.
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6-3 again
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The stupid is strong with this one and it's the kind of stupid that gets people killed.
Go to the home of every Supreme Court justice who just voted to kill women. Let them know how you feel
— Cameron Kasky (@cameron_kasky) June 24, 2022
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/24/parkland-shooting-survivor-cameron-kasky-urges-followers-to-go-to-the-home-of-every-supreme-court-justice-who-just-voted-to-kill-women/
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On crossing state lines....
Would it be okay to take a two year old child into another state or nation where it is legal to kill them, do so, and then return without them?
No, because the child has the inalienable right to life, same as the unborn child.
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On crossing state lines....
Would it be okay to take a two year old child into another state or nation where it is legal to kill them, do so, and then return without them?
No, because the child has the inalienable right to life, same as the unborn child.
If you take your own child across state lines and kill them, it is not up to your home state to prosecute the murder. Rather, it is up to the state with jurisdiction where the crime (or non-crime) was committed.
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The only solution to satisfy your concern is to enact a federal law banning abortion.
I can almost agree with that. Just have to replace "satisfy your concerns" with "have laws that defend basic human rights, like the right not to be knocked off by your own mother."
There's a lot of pearl-clutching going on over what looks like a relatively minor issue, compared to the whole child-murdering thing.
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If you take your own child across state lines and kill them, it is not up to your home state to prosecute the murder. Rather, it is up to the state with jurisdiction where the crime (or non-crime) was committed.
Doesn't the child have a basic expectation of not being transported for the purposes of rights deprivation (being killed)?
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If you take your own child across state lines and kill them, it is not up to your home state to prosecute the murder. Rather, it is up to the state with jurisdiction where the crime (or non-crime) was committed.
There are already federal laws banning citizens from leaving the USA, travelling to places where child rape is legal, and raping children there.
It is called extraterritorial jurisdiction. It is a real thing.
https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-federal-law-extraterritorial-sexual-exploitation-children
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In 1982 Joe Biden proposes a constitutional amendment that would overturn Roe v. Wade and allow states to choose their own policies on abortion.https://t.co/5aFcpaATGo
— David Harsanyi (@davidharsanyi) June 24, 2022
In 1994, Biden brags that he has voted against abortion funding on 50 separate occasions. He voted for partial birth abortion bans twice.https://t.co/XiVbeBM32x
— David Harsanyi (@davidharsanyi) June 24, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/24/oof-thats-gotta-sting-thread-shows-democrats-elected-the-most-pro-life-democrat-maybe-ever-when-they-elected-biden/
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Doesn't the child have a basic expectation of not being transported for the purposes of rights deprivation (being killed)?
You're addressing a different point altogether, and simultaneously falling into a pro-abortion trap.
There are already federal laws banning citizens from leaving the USA, travelling to places where child rape is legal, and raping children there.
Take it up with Article III of the the US Constitution my good man.
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I don't think the first out of state abortion case will be against someone getting the abortion. It will be against someone who is basically a sales agent for the abortion provider. I doubt Planned Parenthood will close their clinics in Texas and they will be recruiting for out of state abortions. Just my prediction.
Have any states where abortion is illegal passed a law trying to outlaw getting an abortion in another state? (I hadn't heard of any, but some laws may be worded that way). Have any of the Governors or Attorney Generals talked about it? Just seems like you are arguing about a potential issue that you don't know will even happen.
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Just seems like you are arguing about a potential issue that you don't know will even happen.
It's a clever bit of manipulation on the part of the pro-abortionists. A hand grenade designed to pit the most ideologically pure anti-abortionists against the anti-abortionists for whom limited government and the Constitution is also important.
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One of the Left's squawks is about how RvW was a "Constitutional right", something all but the most mindless know to be a LIE. While RvW made abortion "legal", it was only able to do so by usurping the rights of the States to make those decisions.
I don't like the idea of abortions for "family planning" but I also don't like the restrictions that so many states (like Missouri) are putting on their books. Any pregnancy resulting from a crime (rape or incest) SHOULD be allowed, up to even 6 months ! Some younger victims might no be aware they are pregnant for a variety of reasons (lack of education mostly) that it might take that long for them to find out.
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I don't think the first out of state abortion case will be against someone getting the abortion. It will be against someone who is basically a sales agent for the abortion provider. I doubt Planned Parenthood will close their clinics in Texas and they will be recruiting for out of state abortions. Just my prediction.
Have any states where abortion is illegal passed a law trying to outlaw getting an abortion in another state? (I hadn't heard of any, but some laws may be worded that way). Have any of the Governors or Attorney Generals talked about it? Just seems like you are arguing about a potential issue that you don't know will even happen.
I know that after Idaho passed our new abortion laws (tied up in court by a planned parenthood lawsuit, but maybe not after today?) planned parenthood immediately expanded their services in Ontario, OR, right across the border (about an hour from Boise). I'm not sure if they did the same thing in Spokane, WA (about 40min from Coeur d'Alene).
They specifically said it was to serve Idaho women seeking abortions.
Edit: Actually, I just read that the Idaho law will go into effect in 30 days. All abortions banned except in the case of rape, incest, or to protect the mother's life.
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There was a family somewhere around here that had almost a full-time gig monitoring and picketing one of the fake clinics (since the Left is now using that term) on the Illinois side of the river. The "clinic" apparently had a reputation for their willingness to perform late-term murders, and the family (don't recall the name anymore) kept track of what states people were driving in from.
So I could envision some very activist people jotting down out-of-state license plates, and reporting them. If there are any states willing to do anything about it.
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One of the Left's squawks is about how RvW was a "Constitutional right", something all but the most mindless know to be a LIE. While RvW made abortion "legal", it was only able to do so by usurping the rights of the States to make those decisions.
I don't like the idea of abortions for "family planning" but I also don't like the restrictions that so many states (like Missouri) are putting on their books. Any pregnancy resulting from a crime (rape or incest) SHOULD be allowed, up to even 6 months ! Some younger victims might no be aware they are pregnant for a variety of reasons (lack of education mostly) that it might take that long for them to find out.
I am very happy to see that Missouri's law protects the rights of everyone, even people who have the misfortune of being the child of a rapist, or of incestuous parents. I guess some people don't see them as being worthy of protection.
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One of the Left's squawks is about how RvW was a "Constitutional right", something all but the most mindless know to be a LIE. While RvW made abortion "legal", it was only able to do so by usurping the rights of the States to make those decisions.
I don't like the idea of abortions for "family planning" but I also don't like the restrictions that so many states (like Missouri) are putting on their books. Any pregnancy resulting from a crime (rape or incest) SHOULD be allowed, up to even 6 months ! Some younger victims might no be aware they are pregnant for a variety of reasons (lack of education mostly) that it might take that long for them to find out.
Wouldn't that incentivized false rape claims?
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I predict a huge Democrat voter turnout in the midterms.
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I predict a huge Democrat voter turnout in the midterms.
Eh ... maybe not so much:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-poll-15-percent-voters-view-abortion-most-important-election-issue-economy-top
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Eh ... maybe not so much:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-poll-15-percent-voters-view-abortion-most-important-election-issue-economy-top
Yup. It's another small, screeching minority. Within a few months they'll find that nothing much has changed in the states where their politics are the majority. For the screechers that are in states that will now restrict abortions, that's being done because the majority in those states want it, and will vote accordingly.
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What's going to happen is losing a bunch of independents in the states that go full ban. I won't vote dem but there is no guaranty I will vote gop.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVDYTpiX0AElyyq?format=jpg&name=small)
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The outcome means immediate abortion bans in roughly half the states, including Kentucky.
That's due to HB 148, a "trigger law," which was signed in 2019 by then-Gov. Matt Bevin. The law states that all abortions would be immediately illegal should Roe v. Wade ever be overturned.
There will be very limited instances where abortions would be allowed, like to prevent the death or serious injury of the person giving birth. But according to Gov. Andy Beshear, this would not include instances of rape or incest.
Abortions in Kentucky immediately banned with overturning of Roe v. Wade
https://www.wlky.com/article/abortions-kentucky-banned-illegal-supreme-court-roe-v-wade/40406350
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVDYTpiX0AElyyq?format=jpg&name=small)
Yup. I think interest in the abortion issue might tick up a bit, in the immediate aftermath of the decision becoming official. As Ben said, though, people will eventually see that it's not the apocalypse. Inflation, high gas prices, etc., will still be problems, so this won't do much to blunt the red wave.
Red wave:(https://p7.hiclipart.com/preview/805/534/551/5bbc0b7d5f320.jpg)
So Planned Parenthood has claimed abortion is only 3% of what they do. Anti-abortion activists have said they really don't do much of anything else, and are for-profit abortion mills. Will be interesting to see if PPs stay open in the forced-birth patriarchy states. Guess the blue state PPs might get enough of that sweet abortion money to keep the others afloat.
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Looks like Liz Cheney's new friends aren't super-thrilled at her reaction to today's news. =D
And she's been courting them to save her bacon in her home state.
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I'm out and about in small town Iowa, there is a lot of angry women. My wife was even pissed when she came home from work. I'm out by myself because it's hostile at home. I ran out of outside work at home so I headed uptown to the brewery. I know it's a small observation but I'm keeping my mouth shut. My conversations with friends have been about the battle between my resident Jack squirrel named Spiderman and the extremely territorial house wren.
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A lot of women who have never, and likely would never personally get an abortion have still been brainwashed with the notion that abortion is somehow a key factor in their lives and ability to have any hope of parity with men in our culture. In another 10-20 years we shall see where attitudes, especially with women that come of age during that time frame, wind up. The general trend has been away from radical pro-abortion stances.
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[tinfoil]
Is this the watershed event that kicks off the bugaloo?
[tinfoil]
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https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1540355358618750976
Some of the protests planned by those unhappy with the Dobbs ruling.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220624/cd0900c3eacfa16be96b25d7a1254b06.jpg)
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Yup. I think interest in the abortion issue might tick up a bit, in the immediate aftermath of the decision becoming official. As Ben said, though, people will eventually see that it's not the apocalypse. Inflation, high gas prices, etc., will still be problems, so this won't do much to blunt the red wave.
Red wave:(https://p7.hiclipart.com/preview/805/534/551/5bbc0b7d5f320.jpg)
So Planned Parenthood has claimed abortion is only 3% of what they do. Anti-abortion activists have said they really don't do much of anything else, and are for-profit abortion mills. Will be interesting to see if PPs stay open in the forced-birth patriarchy states. Guess the blue state PPs might get enough of that sweet abortion money to keep the others afloat.
PP is still getting govt funding I think. I think they still try to keep some of their locations open. It would highlight the lie if they suddenly close down in ban states.
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I predict a huge Democrat voter turnout in the midterms.
Just my opinion:
1. I thought I heard in the past that more pro-lifers had abortion as their top issue than pro-abortion people. That was a long time ago so opinions may have shifted. Still going to be a mixed reaction I think.
2. The majority of the voters have never had abortion as their top issue. Again, old info that I think is still probably true.
3. I think the old statement "its the economy stupid" still applies. Plenty of opportunities for people to be reminded when they fill up the gas tank.
4. Still 3 more months before we hit October with early voting. Plenty of time for other issues to climb back to the front page.
I guess we will see in November.
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Just my opinion:
1. I thought I heard in the past that more pro-lifers had abortion as their top issue than pro-abortion people. That was a long time ago so opinions may have shifted. Still going to be a mixed reaction I think.
Pro-lifers will mostly remain animated because now instead of one massive fight at the federal level it’s going to be lots of relatively smaller fights at the state level. Both to fend off challenges to pro-life laws but also to try to turn pro-abortion states into pro-life states.
For pro-lifers this isn’t the end. It’s not even the beginning of the end. It’s barely the end of the beginning. Apologies to my 6th cousin for stealing his line.
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A very good piece on what’s wrong with the “if it’s not written explicitly in the constitution it’s not a right” theory. There’s a solid argument that what just happened is judicial activism dressed up as “plain reading”:
https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl (https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl)
Madison's attempt became enshrined in the Constitution as the Ninth Amendment. Here is what it says: "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." In short, unenumerated rights get the same respect as enumerated ones.
William Blackstone's widely read Commentaries on the Laws of England, first published in 1765, made this exact point: Life "begins in contemplation of law as soon as an infant is able to stir in the mother's womb." Under the common law, Blackstone explained, legal penalties for abortion only occurred "if a woman is quick with child, and by a potion, or otherwise, killeth it in her womb."
Blackstone's work was a major influence on America's founding generation. The founders read Blackstone and they well understood that abortion was legal during the early stages of pregnancy under the common law. What is more, because every state at the time of the founding followed the common law as described by Blackstone, no state originally possessed the lawful power to prohibit abortion before quickening. We might call this the original understanding of the regulatory powers of the states.
That same original understanding extends to the Ninth Amendment. Because the states followed the common law at the founding, the American people originally understood that lawmakers lacked the lawful power to prohibit women from ending an unwanted pregnancy during its early stages. The freedom to end an unwanted pregnancy before quickening thus falls within the original meaning and understanding of a right "retained by the people."
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Slightly tangential, but I just heard Biden, right before he signed the new gun legislation, stating that the feds will be watching states and will take legal action against any state that attempts to block women from crossing state lines for an abortion.
So what if someone wants to cross from CA to AZ to buy 30 round mags or unbutchered ARs, or even more applicably, to buy ammo which they can otherwise only buy in person, in state?
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So what if someone wants to cross from CA to AZ to buy 30 round mags or unbutchered ARs, or even more applicably, to buy ammo which they can otherwise only buy in person, in state?
Be sure to wave to the person going the other way for an abortion
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I hadn't really appreciated before how a democracy-limiting institution like the Supreme Court could actually defend and enhance the democratic element of our republic. With good people in charge, of course.
A very good piece on what’s wrong with the “if it’s not written explicitly in the constitution it’s not a right” theory. There’s a solid argument that what just happened is judicial activism dressed up as “plain reading”:
https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl (https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl)
If you don't like judicial activism, you should see that old, dead decision from a few decades ago. Roe v Wade, I think it was called. You'll really hate that one.
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I hadn't really appreciated before how a democracy-limiting institution like the Supreme Court could actually defend and enhance the democratic element of our republic. With good people in charge, of course.
If you don't like judicial activism, you should see that old, dead decision from a few decades ago. Roe v Wade, I think it was called. You'll really hate that one.
The article linked is a very accessible explanation for why Roe was not activism and why many unenumerated rights are protected by the constitution. Roe was a predictable outcome from a long line of cases that recognised limits on government power to regulate the race a person chooses to marry, their decision to use birth control, parental rights, and others. If you accept that there were rights reserved for the people, it’s predictable that is.
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From the Reason article, quoting Blackwood:
Life "begins in contemplation of law as soon as an infant is able to stir in the mother's womb." Under the common law, Blackstone explained, legal penalties for abortion only occurred "if a woman is quick with child, and by a potion, or otherwise, killeth it in her womb."
Movement of the baby in the womb can be felt "quickening" as the article said late in pregnancy (around 25 weeks or so). So many have felt that was when the soul entered the body.
However, human fetuses move much earlier, at least at six weeks. This was not known in Blackstone's time, as it could not be felt.
So if we accept fetal movement as the dividing line for legal protection, the age for legal abortion would need to be moved to prior to six weeks.
Here is a video of a seven week fetus moving. This is clearly a living human being:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY)
However, the criteria of movement does not make sense to declare a human being worthy of legal protection. If that were so, it would be ok to kill paralyzed persons.
Laws banning human abortion at earlier stages of development actually started being written towards the latter part of the 19th century- prompted by discoveries in embryology. Science realized that the "quickening" standard was false, and that early embryos and fetuses are living human beings, just like later term fetuses are. This pro-life movement was led by doctors, guided by science.
I do not believe in "ensoulment"... I think it is wrong to kill unborn human beings because they are living human beings, and therefore deserving of the right not to be killed, despite whatever physical traits they may lack.
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Slightly tangential, but I just heard Biden, right before he signed the new gun legislation, stating that the feds will be watching states and will take legal action against any state that attempts to block women from crossing state lines for an abortion.
So what if someone wants to cross from CA to AZ to buy 30 round mags or unbutchered ARs, or even more applicably, to buy ammo which they can otherwise only buy in person, in state?
The extensions might go further than you think - neither the right to own any specific kind of gun nor the right to self defense are enumerated in the constitution. You could imagine a future court listing all the restrictions states asserted in the past, like types of weapons or “duty to retreat” type restrictions on self defense that in substance reverse Heller and uphold all manner of gun law.
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From the Reason article, quoting Blackwood:
Life "begins in contemplation of law as soon as an infant is able to stir in the mother's womb." Under the common law, Blackstone explained, legal penalties for abortion only occurred "if a woman is quick with child, and by a potion, or otherwise, killeth it in her womb."
Movement of the baby in the womb can be felt "quickening" as the article said late in pregnancy (around 25 weeks or so). So many have felt that was when the soul entered the body.
However, human fetuses move much earlier, at least at six weeks. This was not known in Blackstone's time, as it could not be felt.
So if we accept fetal movement as the dividing line for legal protection, the age for legal abortion would need to be moved to prior to six weeks.
Here is a video of a seven week fetus moving. This is clearly a living human being:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY)
Laws banning human abortion at earlier stages of development actually started being written towards the latter part of the 19th century- prompted by discoveries in embryology. This pro-life movement was led by doctors.
However, the criteria of movement does not make sense to declare a human being worthy of legal protection. If that were so, it would be ok to kill paralyzed persons.
I do not believe in "ensoulment"... I think it is wrong to kill unborn human beings because they are living human beings, and therefore deserving of the right not to be killed, despite whatever physical traits they may lack.
The point he was making there was that abortion was not criminalised early in pregnancy, and so the states have no historical power to regulate it before physically being able to feel movement. You’re submitting your own view of what the historical powers should have been, but the point of the reason article is that a power the state didn’t have and that it wasn’t granted in the constitution or otherwise is one it shouldn’t have now.
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Be sure to wave to the person going the other way for an abortion
Just stay home and ask her to bring back some magazines.
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The extensions might go further than you think - neither the right to own any specific kind of gun nor the right to self defense are enumerated in the constitution.
The Founding Fathers were pretty big on, "If it is not specifically forbidden, then it is allowed" vs "If it is not specifically allowed, then it is forbidden". I would suspect they would be on the "get any gun you want" side of the line vs the "we only meant muskets" side.
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https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-man-most-responsible-for-ending-roe-worries-that-it-could-hurt-his-party/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=owned_echobox_f&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3pzg6kpRWq4_c2YXl89qUE_KbXE79QyVLwPzTk2v3lFJAUVqJAG7GguOw#Echobox=1656123826-1
We will see if President Trump's worries are confirmed by election results.
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Biden on abortion:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1540529065618202624
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Yes it's killing and we're okay with that because it's for the public good
Feminist Writer: 'Abortion Involves Killing...And That's OK'
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/06/25/feminist-writer-abortion-is-killing-and-thats-ok-n2609310
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Clarence Thomas Creates Shockwaves For Stating Next ‘Error’ That Supreme Court Should ‘Correct’
https://www.dailywire.com/news/clarence-thomas-creates-shockwaves-for-stating-next-error-that-supreme-court-should-correct?utm_campaign=dw_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=housefile&utm_content=member
I believe Thomas opinion was concurring. I thought I heard that meant it was not law. Either way, sounds like he considered some of these issues should be left to the states to regulate.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/supreme-court-overturns-constitutional-right-to-abortion/
Looking at pieces of this, Alito did not agree with Thomas on that particular issue.
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The article linked is a very accessible explanation for why Roe was not activism and why many unenumerated rights are protected by the constitution. Roe was a predictable outcome from a long line of cases that recognised limits on government power to regulate the race a person chooses to marry, their decision to use birth control, parental rights, and others. If you accept that there were rights reserved for the people, it’s predictable that is.
I generally agree with that position as do i think most people. The problem is that we cannot agree on what constitutes a living human being. Your fellow travelers have attempted to push it to the point that killing an unborn baby up to and including at the moment of birth is OK.
At what point does a human life begin? At the moment of conception is one side of the argument. The other side is apparently some as yet undefined period of time after the birth occurs.
That is what the disagreement comes down to. One side sees it as eliminating an unwanted mass of tissue, the other side sees it as murder.
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Anyways, so I guess the whole leaker thing is going to fade away? I was kinda thinking that was still important, but it seems like neither side cares about finding the culprit anymore.
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Anyways, so I guess the whole leaker thing is going to fade away? I was kinda thinking that was still important, but it seems like neither side cares about finding the culprit anymore.
Not much point in finding the leak after the ship sunk.
But it would be nice to know to help prevent the next one.
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Your fellow travelers have attempted to push it to the point that killing an unborn baby up to and including at the moment of birth is OK.
I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole. Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons. As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.
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(https://i.imgur.com/uEIQCCQ.jpg)
In reality, they would be pushing both buttons.
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I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole. Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons. As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.
Probably right but the few times I have had pro-choicetards screeching at me about keeping women down and pushing handmaidens tale bullshit while accusing me of being a misogynistic racist I lump them right in with the most vile of their fellow travelers and dead baby parts merchants.
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AG to the rescue
WASHINGTON (AP) — Garland: Justice Department to 'use every tool at our disposal to protect reproductive freedom' after high court ruling.
— Zeke Miller (@ZekeJMiller) June 24, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/25/attorney-general-merrick-garland-will-use-all-the-tools-at-the-dojs-disposal-to-protect-reproductive-freedom/
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The point he was making there was that abortion was not criminalised early in pregnancy, and so the states have no historical power to regulate it before physically being able to feel movement. You’re submitting your own view of what the historical powers should have been, but the point of the reason article is that a power the state didn’t have and that it wasn’t granted in the constitution or otherwise is one it shouldn’t have now.
Wife beating was also not criminalized in most of the early history of the USA (until around the mid 1800 to late 1800s- which is the same time period abortion laws starting getting more restrictive in the USA.) It was considered a right under common law for a man to beat his wife.
Does this mean beating your wife should be recognized as a right under the 9th Amendment?
In the same manner, because killing unborn children early in pregnancy was legal in early America, it does not follow that killing unborn children now should be considered protected under the ninth amendment (or any other amendment).
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I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole. Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons. As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.
Abortion until birth is already legal already in these states:
Alaska
Colorado
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
Oregon
Vermont
New York
*Plus, the District of Columbia
Abortion until birth is the official position of NARAL, which has 2.5 million members. There are a lot of people who feel this way. It seems like every society has one group of people they treat like trash. In the USA it is human beings before birth.
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Wife beating was also not criminalized in most of the early history of the USA (until around the mid 1800 to late 1800s- which is the same time period abortion laws starting getting more restrictive in the USA.) It was considered a right under common law for a man to beat his wife.
Does this mean beating your wife should be recognized as a right under the 9th Amendment?
In the same manner, because killing unborn children early in pregnancy was legal in early America, it does not follow that killing unborn children now should be considered protected under the ninth amendment (or any other amendment).
Also, as embryology advanced laws started to tighten the available time frame to abort. Once it was apparent that the first time the mother felt the baby move meant nothing in particular in terms of the baby becoming human that standard fell quickly. It’s pretty likely that had the founders understood human fetal development like we do that abortion would have been 100% illegal.
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I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole. Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons. As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.
That's an extremely poor analogy, given that late term abortion is a regular occurrence in this country, while private ownership of nukes is presumably non-existent (and I presume also illegal).
As a general rule, attempts to both-sides extremism in U.S. politics end in failure.
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A very good piece on what’s wrong with the “if it’s not written explicitly in the constitution it’s not a right” theory. There’s a solid argument that what just happened is judicial activism dressed up as “plain reading”:
https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl (https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl)
That reasoning could support an opposite outcome. SCOTUS could uphold a federal ban on abortion as an unenumerated right of a human fetus to not be killed. Abortion regulation (among many other issues) rightfully belongs to the states.
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I just want to see what happens when they run up against a case regarding taxpayer grants or subsidies to groups which actually do elective abortions...
Because that's the term that most of us really don't like.
Elective.
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https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/ Can someone provide actual data on the number of abortions done at birth?
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I generally agree with that position as do i think most people. The problem is that we cannot agree on what constitutes a living human being. Your fellow travelers have attempted to push it to the point that killing an unborn baby up to and including at the moment of birth is OK.
At what point does a human life begin? At the moment of conception is one side of the argument. The other side is apparently some as yet undefined period of time after the birth occurs.
That is what the disagreement comes down to. One side sees it as eliminating an unwanted mass of tissue, the other side sees it as murder.
Roe V Wade was just a mass of words!
:cool:
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Side note - pregnancy centers are "fake abortion clinics". ;/
https://www.kivitv.com/news/roe-v-wade-overturned-what-to-know-and-how-to-spot-anti-abortion-fake-clinics-in-idaho
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Roe V Wade was just a mass of words!
:cool:
Somebody said something
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https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/ Can someone provide actual data on the number of abortions done at birth?
Do you think it is more or less than the number of nuclear weapons in private hands?
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Side note - pregnancy centers are "fake abortion clinics". ;/
https://www.kivitv.com/news/roe-v-wade-overturned-what-to-know-and-how-to-spot-anti-abortion-fake-clinics-in-idaho
If you suspect a business to be one of these "fake clinics" advertising abortion in Idaho, you can report one of these businesses through the Idaho Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division or you can file a direct complaint through the Idaho Attorney General's website.
So Planned Parenthood and KIVI News 6 want people to call the AG's office to harass crisis pregnancy centers.
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So Planned Parenthood and KIVI News 6 want people to call the AG's office to harass crisis pregnancy centers.
With "turnabout fair play", perhaps people should report PP clinics to their AGs, since PP constantly calls themselves a "womens health clinic", but pushes abortions and downplays other options - the opposite of what they accuse pregnancy centers of doing.
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There is an article in the local paper bemoaning that the SCOTUS decision will make it more difficult to pass additional gun control laws at the local and state level. I see the SAF in Bellevue has already mentioned that in the planned suit against Washington state for the 10 round plus magazine ban. I sure hope that ban goes away.
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There is an article in the local paper bemoaning that the SCOTUS decision will make it more difficult to pass additional gun control laws at the local and state level. I see the SAF in Bellevue has already mentioned that in the planned suit against Washington state for the 10 round plus magazine ban. I sure hope that ban goes away.
On the guns/abortion thing: I can't remember where I read it, but apparently, CA, who has opened the doors to suing the gun industry if you get a jaywalking ticket, or by anyone for anything, is just now looking at passing legislation that would give the abortion industry immunity from lawsuits.
Seems like only one of these strategies could legally apply to both entities.
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https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/ Can someone provide actual data on the number of abortions done at birth?
They define late-term as being at 21 weeks or later. And:
just 1.2% of abortions are performed at or after 21 weeks (Figure 1). This amounts to approximately 5,200 abortions per year occurring at or after 21 weeks, however this is an underestimate as only 33 reporting areas report abortions to the CDC by gestational age.
When something happens thousands of times per year, would you call it a regular occurrence?
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When something happens thousands of times per year, would you call it a regular occurrence?
How can we even know the numbers? I thought some states have privacy laws that would negate reporting that an abortion was performed?
Additionally, CNN has made a list of "states where you can get an abortion". I notice there is a lot of "before the fetus is viable" language, but they never give a number for viability. This list also mentions the states that allow abortion up to birth.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/13/us/abortion-rights-access-states-roe-v-wade/index.html
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How can we even know the numbers? I thought some states have privacy laws that would negate reporting that an abortion was performed?
Additionally, CNN has made a list of "states where you can get an abortion". I notice there is a lot of "before the fetus is viable" language, but they never give a number for viability. This list also mentions the states that allow abortion up to birth.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/13/us/abortion-rights-access-states-roe-v-wade/index.html
True, we don't have exact figures.
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They define late-term as being at 21 weeks or later. And:
When something happens thousands of times per year, would you call it a regular occurrence?
So you are saying that thousands of abortions at birth occur each year? 40 weeks gestational age?
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How can we even know the numbers? I thought some states have privacy laws that would negate reporting that an abortion was performed?
. . .
When it comes to privacy laws, don't they get around that by scrubbing identity information from medical procedure reporting? For example, it's generally easy to get vaccination rates for the Chinese virus broken down by area and even by vaccine manufacturer, but names of the vaccinated aren't included.
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When it comes to privacy laws, don't they get around that by scrubbing identity information from medical procedure reporting? For example, it's generally easy to get vaccination rates for the Chinese virus broken down by area and even by vaccine manufacturer, but names of the vaccinated aren't included.
Could be, but I'm wondering if, even if anonymous, data like at what point the pregnancy was aborted might or might not be included in statistics. Also, a state like CA may say, "no reporting under any circumstances", while another state might say, "anonymous reporting is allowed".
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I'm not sure how accurate the article is, but it seems to suggest that in Montana, even if they restrict abortions, the MT privacy laws would still allow abortions to take place, because those involved wouldn't have to tell anyone.
https://www.ktvh.com/news/montana-leaders-react-to-abortion-ruling-as-focus-shifts-to-states
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Some years ago, I read about some research about why women get late term abortions (I think definition was something like 20+ weeks gestation).
I recall the first two reasons.
The most common reason cited was women who did not know they were pregnant (fat women with irregular cycles, I guess). I actually went to high school with a guy whose wife supposedly didn't know she was pregnant until she went into labor. That was the rumor anyway. :O
The second most common reason for having a late term abortion cited was women who procrastinated getting an abortion.
I oppose elective abortions at any age. The ones at later ages get me angrier though, as it is easier for me to identify with the baby, and those killing them have no real excuse that they don't realize what they are doing.
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I oppose elective abortions at any age. The ones at later ages get me angrier though, as it is easier for me to identify with the baby, and those killing them have no real excuse that they don't realize what they are doing.
This, again in my opinion, is why the "pro-abortion" side likely lost a lot of goodwill from fence-sitters and even their own side of the fence. The closer a fetus looks to a baby versus "a clump of cells", I think it's only natural that people start to say, "Wait just a dang minute here."
As I'm seeing more "what other countries do" stuff in the news, it seems that a large majority of first world countries have an "under 12 weeks" line drawn for "okay" and "not okay".
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So you are saying that thousands of abortions at birth occur each year? 40 weeks gestational age?
Where are you getting that from?
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So you are saying that thousands of abortions at birth occur each year? 40 weeks gestational age?
I’m sure it’s super rare. Even 1 is too many.
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Every time things don't go their way the dems start screaming impeachment
.@AOC says Kavanaugh, Barrett, and Thomas committed impeachable offenses, " I believe lying under oath is an impeachable offense and violating federal law and not disclosing income from political organizations as Clarence Thomas did is also potentially an impeachable offense." pic.twitter.com/g19DIMJfbM
— Sarah Reese Jones (@PoliticusSarah) June 26, 2022
AOC calls for impeachment hearings on Justices Kavanaugh, Barrett and Thomas
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/26/aoc-calls-for-impeachment-hearings-on-justices-kavanaugh-barrett-and-thomas/
Have fun reading the comments at https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1541067932586876928
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(https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/Raising_Hell_Small20220625063203.jpg)
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I have nothing
Joel M. Petlin
@Joelmpetlin
Replying to
@scottzipperle
Nothing demonstrates unconditional love for your children more than using them as props at a pro-abortion rally, making them stand next to a sign that says you wish they were never even born
https://twitter.com/Joelmpetlin/status/1541065483352408064/photo/1
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWL24-8WAAAUZjC?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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And another
"Amanda Herring, who is 32 and *nine months pregnant*, showed up with her 1-year-old son Abraham and the words "Not Yet a Human" written in ink across her swollen belly. Herring, a Jewish educator who said *her due date is Saturday*"
https://twitter.com/s00nd/status/1540510373845110784
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWD-AfeWQAE2uBU?format=png&name=small)
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And another
https://twitter.com/s00nd/status/1540510373845110784
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWD-AfeWQAE2uBU?format=png&name=small)
Again, their own "look at me, I'm edgy and pushing boundaries" schtick is what is losing them their allies.
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These Euro (and Canadian) leaders with big mouths really need to shut up with their attacks on our Supreme Court.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWKdWl1VEAAUW5a?format=jpg&name=small)
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Oops.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p7nlleXvTZA/hqdefault.jpg)
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Again, their own "look at me, I'm edgy and pushing boundaries" schtick is what is losing them their allies.
Yes. Pro-abortionists had a winner with "safe, legal, and rare". Wrong as I think even rare abortion is, as MillCreek correctly points out, most Americans don't think too much about the issue and are pro-abortion to some fuzzy point largely dependent on their knowledge or ignorance of fetal development. If the left had stuck with their "safe, legal, and rare" line the anti-abortionists would have had a hard time making political headway. When the official party line became "abortion at any time for any reason" then they lost a lot of people who had some vague idea that at some point a baby must at some point become a baby, and even if they can't imagine that at twelve weeks, they sure as hell know that it happens before the baby pops out.
I hope the anti-abortion side doesn't likewise end up being a victim of its own success ...
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I have posted this video before because it is so interesting in my opinion.
Here's a healthy nine week fetus. It is already obviously a living, extremely small, baby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q30ao8phNY
Even at seven weeks, the embryo is clearly a living, though odd-looking, baby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY
If I remember correctly, the average abortion takes place at eight weeks. Human development in the womb is incredibly fast.
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Yes. Pro-abortionists had a winner with "safe, legal, and rare". Wrong as I think even rare abortion is, as MillCreek correctly points out, most Americans don't think too much about the issue and are pro-abortion to some fuzzy point largely dependent on their knowledge or ignorance of fetal development. If the left had stuck with their "safe, legal, and rare" line the anti-abortionists would have had a hard time making political headway. When the official party line became "abortion at any time for any reason" then they lost a lot of people who had some vague idea that at some point a baby must at some point become a baby, and even if they can't imagine that at twelve weeks, they sure as hell know that it happens before the baby pops out.
I hope the anti-abortion side doesn't likewise end up being a victim of its own success ...
It is going to happen in one of the states. It will just generate more lawsuits and more rulings of one kind or another. It is just as likely the pro-abortion states will lets things get out of hand. Overconfident activists always always try to push further.
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as MillCreek correctly points out, most Americans don't think too much about the issue and are pro-abortion to some fuzzy point largely dependent on their knowledge or ignorance of fetal development.
And to that point, a prediction for the midterms: https://thehill.com/homenews/3537982-democrats-more-likely-to-vote-in-midterms-after-abortion-ruling-poll/
I still think the biggest issue for the midterms will be the economy/inflation/gas prices, but we will see.
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Ben, that chart is out of date already. Has anyone updated that in the last week or so? I know that FL is going "yellow" by that chart on Friday, unless the activists get an injunction today.
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Devil's advocate.
In the states where abortion will more than likely have a total ban, what would stop pro-choice women from purposely getting pregnant and abandoning the baby at birth at the hospital under the safe haven laws?
They could effectively overwhelm the system if enough of them did this.
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Devil's advocate.
In the states where abortion will more than likely have a total ban, what would stop pro-choice women from purposely getting pregnant and abandoning the baby at birth at the hospital under the safe haven laws?
They could effectively overwhelm the system if enough of them did this.
Many seem to be firmly welded to the idea that the parasitic mass of cells inside of them needs to be killed so that they can continue to have promiscuous sex without any of the responsibilities that is suppose to accompany sex.
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Many seem to be firmly welded to the idea that the parasitic mass of cells inside of them needs to be killed so that they can continue to have promiscuous sex without any of the responsibilities that is suppose to accompany sex
The unspoken fear of many: that someone, somewhere, is having sex outside of a heterosexual Christian marriage and this must be controlled or consequences imposed.
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The unspoken fear of many: that someone, somewhere, is having sex outside of a heterosexual Christian marriage and this must be controlled or consequences imposed.
Wow, just wow
Having sex should mean accepting the responsibilities that may result. Name a culture and/or religion that hasn't tried to enforce this, and for very good reason, to some degree.
Playing "who's your daddy" in the inner city is one of the reasons we at the point where we're at right now.
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Many seem to be firmly welded to the idea that the parasitic mass of cells inside of them needs to be killed so that they can continue to have promiscuous sex without any of the responsibilities that is suppose to accompany sex.
Yup. You're not gonna see many, if any, of the radical pro-abortion women carrying a baby to term to stick it to the man. They want the kid ripped out of them so they can "get back to their lives", not carry a "burden" for nine months. They'll hop in their car and drive to an abortion state.
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Wow, just wow
Having sex should mean accepting the responsibilities that may result. Name a culture and/or religion that hasn't tried to enforce this, and for very good reason, to some degree.
Playing "who's your daddy" in the inner city is one of the reasons we at the point where we're at right now.
And do you think this court decision will fix this?
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I crack up everytime they step on their dicks trying to figure out the "pregnant man" thing. :rofl:
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/27/g4tv-host-gina-darling-apologizes-for-transphobic-comments-after-she-says-men-cant-get-pregnant-in-roe-rant-and-lmao/
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And do you think this court decision will fix this?
It's not the fix but rather a step back in the culture war we been retreating in every time the left pushes. The real fight in the abortion battle is to push back at the idea that on demand abortion is a perfectly acceptable alternative to taking responsibly for your actions and getting back to the idea of the family being the foundation of society. Or is that too Christian for you?
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Yup. You're not gonna see many, if any, of the radical pro-abortion women carrying a baby to term to stick it to the man. They want the kid ripped out of them so they can "get back to their lives", not carry a "burden" for nine months. They'll hop in their car and drive to an abortion state.
And then right afterwards hop into the back of the car and repeat the process over and over again
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And then right afterwards hop into the back of the car and repeat the process over and over again
I doubt that describes most women who get or advocate abortions.
In the states where abortion will more than likely have a total ban, what would stop pro-choice women from purposely getting pregnant and abandoning the baby at birth at the hospital under the safe haven laws?
The point of abortion is to provide a quick, convenient answer to a difficult question. You're barking up the wrong tree if you think abortion proponents are going to put in that kind of work and self sacrifice just to move the needle a little bit in overwhelming the system. I just don't think there are enough dedicated sociopaths on the pro-abortion side to do that.
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Devil's advocate.
In the states where abortion will more than likely have a total ban, what would stop pro-choice women from purposely getting pregnant and abandoning the baby at birth at the hospital under the safe haven laws?
They could effectively overwhelm the system if enough of them did this.
Having had professional experience with the 'safe haven' concept, the social service and adoption agencies would be absolutely thrilled for the uptick of babies to place.
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Well now we have a court fight
A judge in Louisiana temporarily blocked three state laws that would ban virtually all abortions on Monday.
The abortion bans were set to take effect if the Supreme Court ever overturned Roe v. Wade, which it did on Friday. Several states across the country have enacted similar laws, known as "trigger laws."
Judge blocks Louisiana abortion 'trigger law' from taking effect
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/judge-blocks-louisiana-abortion-trigger-law-from-taking-effect
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What is safe haven?
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What is safe haven?
The group of laws that let someone leave a baby in certain places with no questions asked and no consequences. Usually hospitals, fire stations and similar places.
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This may be a good time to be a urologist or a GYN. There may be a more widespread uptick in business. If getting an abortion becomes more difficult maybe we shouldn't be making a new human to begin with.
https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-abortion/scotus-abortion-decision-prompts-increase-in-requests-for-vasectomies-getting-tubes-tied-in-central-texas/
bob
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If getting an abortion becomes more difficult maybe we shouldn't be making a new human to begin with.
Or just getting it through the heads of numbskulls of both sexes that abortions aren't the same as birth control pills or condoms. Trying to push the idea that they are equal is another reason the radicals lost their fight.
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Or just getting it through the heads of numbskulls of both sexes that abortions aren't the same as birth control pills or condoms. Trying to push the idea that they are equal is another reason the radicals lost their fight.
You would think this point does not have to be spelled out, but apparently it does.
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Or just getting it through the heads of numbskulls of both sexes that abortions aren't the same as birth control pills or condoms. Trying to push the idea that they are equal is another reason the radicals lost their fight.
You must be one of those extreme far right fascists we keep hearing about
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You must be one of those extreme far right fascists we keep hearing about
No, I'm ULTRA MAGA! (wore the shirt at costco today and got three compliments) :laugh:
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No, I'm ULTRA MAGA!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/N4hHsZoD3edqw/giphy.gif)
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I was listening to NPR in my truck today and of course they were talking about abortion. One thing they mentioned was conservatives now want the Supreme Court to outlaw abortion. They were talking to a young woman who is against abortion and kinda implied that she was a freak or something because abortion is a sacrament. (they didn't say that outloud)
A national ban would be a nice outcome, but wasn't the whole point of the recent decision that Roe v. Wade violated the 10th Amendment? The Constitution is silent on the issue, therefore it belongs to the states (or the people.) It would be dishonest for the court to take up the issue again.
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And another
https://twitter.com/s00nd/status/1540510373845110784
"Amanda Herring, who is 32 and *nine months pregnant*, showed up with her 1-year-old son Abraham and the words "Not Yet a Human" written in ink across her swollen belly. Herring, a Jewish educator who said *her due date is Saturday*"
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWD-AfeWQAE2uBU?format=png&name=small)
Hardly surprising. The traditional Jewish belief is that [human] life begins with the first breath.
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Oops.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p7nlleXvTZA/hqdefault.jpg)
;/ I watched the video. She clearly stumbled over her words and was obviously not trying to say "white life". News flash: Obama didn't really think there were 57 states either.
I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole. Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons. As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.
This statement has been bugging me the past few days, and I don't think it is in any way defensible.
First off, I understand that you were looking at the populace as a whole and not specific parties, but let's use political parties and their surveys and focus groups to pressure test your assertion.
I have never heard any major politician or candidate support the 2A as covering nuclear weapons. I'm not even sure the modern Libertarian candidates would hold to that. On the other hand, just about all national-level Democrat politicians when asked their position on late term abortion either deflect or basically say: "Whatever the mother wants".
Looking back at the 2020 Democratic candidates opinions on late term abortion, I couldn't find any that would say that they oppose it today. Some of the older candidates have a history of anti-abortion positions, but all had evolved to the point that as of 2020 none were fundamentally opposed late term abortion. A few try to deflect (as you do) and say that it isn't a thing and shut up we don't need to worry about it, but most just said that it should be up to the mother. If anything, support for unlimited abortion is a shibboleth for modern Democrats, whereas it isn't even hard to find Republicans who support assault weapons bans. It is unthinkable to find a major politician supporting private ownership of nuclear weapons.
Whatever the overall perspective of people who have any pro-abortion views, it would appear that Democrats believe that there are enough people in their party who support late term abortions that they cannot oppose it. In contrast, I couldn't find any national-level politician or major candidate that supports private ownership of nuclear weapons. I think a more honest comparison would be the number of pro-abortionists who believe in late term abortion to the number of people who believe that you should be able to own some sort of gun who also believe the second amendment covers "assault weapons".
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News flash: Obama didn't really think there were 57 states either.
He meant genders.
The number has gone up somewhat since
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Cordex, ponder how the fallacy of hasty generalization/fallacy of composition applies to my original statement, not your expansion to political parties and their platforms.
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Cordex, ponder how the fallacy of hasty generalization/fallacy of composition applies to my original statement, not your expansion to political parties and their platforms.
My understanding of what you were saying is as follows:
1. Anyone who believes that any abortion is okay is somewhat pro-abortion
2. There are a lot of people who meet the definition above.
3. Among that very large group, the number of people who support late-term abortion is so small as to be comparable to the number of 2A supporters who believe that nuclear weapons are covered by the 2A.
Have I understood you correctly?
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Pocahontas wants abortion tents set up in National Parks.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/heap-big-crazy-elizabeth-warren-pushes-biden-to-set-up-planned-parenthood-outposts-tents-on-edges-of-national-parks/
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Pocahontas wants abortion tents set up in National Parks.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/heap-big-crazy-elizabeth-warren-pushes-biden-to-set-up-planned-parenthood-outposts-tents-on-edges-of-national-parks/
I thought National Parks were racist?
Is it me or has she been extra crazy since they removed her image from the butter box?
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Speaking of crazy
It shouldn't be harder to obtain an abortion than an AR-15.
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 27, 2022
Hillary Clinton goes off the rails on not-so-thinly veiled racist rant about ‘person of grievance’ Clarence Thomas [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/28/hillary-clinton-goes-off-the-rails-on-not-so-thinly-veiled-racist-rant-about-person-of-grievance-clarence-thomas-video/
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Speaking of crazy
Hillary Clinton goes off the rails on not-so-thinly veiled racist rant about ‘person of grievance’ Clarence Thomas [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/28/hillary-clinton-goes-off-the-rails-on-not-so-thinly-veiled-racist-rant-about-person-of-grievance-clarence-thomas-video/
Uppity black man!
As the comments suggested, she is one totally self-unaware nutjob.
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My understanding of what you were saying is as follows:
1. Anyone who believes that any abortion is okay is somewhat pro-abortion
2. There are a lot of people who meet the definition above.
3. Among that very large group, the number of people who support late-term abortion is so small as to be comparable to the number of 2A supporters who believe that nuclear weapons are covered by the 2A.
Have I understood you correctly?
No, you have not. I have an issue with those who conflate all late term abortions (21 weeks or more) being the same as abortions at the time of birth (40 weeks gestational age). I realize that to many people, they are all one and the same philosophically, but there is a difference from the healthcare perspective. Also, I, and probably the majority of American citizens do not believe 'any abortion is OK' as a black and white statement.
See also: https://www.sacurrent.com/news/bad-takes-the-rabid-right-believes-the-second-amendment-has-no-limits-not-even-nukes-27777351
https://www.newsweek.com/candidate-running-primary-elise-stefanik-says-people-should-able-own-nuke-1606617
https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-legalize-recreational-nuclear-weapons-0e0861b0-bfdc-480c-887e-195e1a20b365
From the above, should we generalize that all Second Amendment supporters are in favor of the right to bear nuclear arms? What part of 'shall not be infringed' is unclear?
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No one needs more than 10 nukes
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No one needs more than 10 nukes
Or a MIRV.
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I've always held (and argued on here) that abortion should be allowed in limited scope (rape/incest, massive detected defect in the child, VERY limited "birth control failed"). All of these can be addressed in the early stages of pregnancy (or the morning after pill).
I talk with many on the left: support for late-term abortion is incredibly small, and rabidly vocal. Very similar to the trans bathroom issue years ago: most of the (at the time, tiny) trans community weren't the ones raising hell about it
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I've always held (and argued on here) that abortion should be allowed in limited scope (rape/incest, massive detected defect in the child, VERY limited "birth control failed"). All of these can be addressed in the early stages of pregnancy (or the morning after pill).
I talk with many on the left: support for late-term abortion is incredibly small, and rabidly vocal. Very similar to the trans bathroom issue years ago: most of the (at the time, tiny) trans community weren't the ones raising hell about it
That very vocal minority and the Planned Parenthood baby chop shop stuff is the very reason this thread exists.
Push abhorrent ideas and you’re eventually going to get some serious pushback from the people who are tired of being run over.
The “in your face” and “we’re gonna groom and *expletive deleted*ck up your kids” crowd of the trannies/drag queens/allies should take notice
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Or a MIRV.
Or more than a 50 kiloton yield per weapon.
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There are two major sides to this issue. Both side each have their spectrum of belief. And, the key element is the question of "When does life begin. when does a living being become vested in human rights?"
One side runs from life begins at conception to life begins at some nebulous point with numerous key points with a degree of variability across the board and that killing the unborn is murder which is evil
The other side runs from "it is just an inconvenient mass of cells" until it is born to even after it's born we can still have a discussion about aborting it after delivery with a degree of variability across the board and it's just a matter of women's healthcare and nobody else's business.
Each side has their opinion, whether based in their faith or their understanding of science. The only real arbitor is going to be whatever creator there may or may not be.
I doubt more than a tiny fraction on either side will be changing their minds during this debate. Personally I'd like to see this thread and the other on the topic closed since we have all pretty well aired our positions and continued name calling and insults do not serve this forum well.
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Abortion billboards appearing in California, possibly funded with taxpayer money:
https://www.kusi.com/are-taxpayer-dollars-funding-pro-abortion-billboards-in-california/
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That very vocal minority and the Planned Parenthood baby chop shop stuff is the very reason this thread exists.
Because of the extrapolation here that if you do not oppose all abortions under all circumstances, you are a supporter of abortion on demand at the time of birth and baby chop shops. There is no middle ground.
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No, you have not. I have an issue with those who conflate all late term abortions (21 weeks or more) being the same as abortions at the time of birth (40 weeks gestational age). I realize that to many people, they are all one and the same philosophically, but there is a difference from the healthcare perspective.
Ah. From the healthcare perspective, then, what limit would you prefer be placed on abortions? Of course I expect that you distinguish between elective and medically necessary, as well as make distinctions between physical and mental health justifications.
Also, I, and probably the majority of American citizens do not believe 'any abortion is OK' as a black and white statement.
Just to be clear, in point #1 I was trying to convey that anyone who believes that abortion should be allowed under particular circumstances might be considered pro-abortion. I thought you had (correctly) stated in one of these threads that most Americans are pro-abortion to some extent under some circumstances, and was simply trying to reiterate that point, not make some jab about the majority being okay with all abortion. I apologize if I failed to properly communicate that.
See also: https://www.sacurrent.com/news/bad-takes-the-rabid-right-believes-the-second-amendment-has-no-limits-not-even-nukes-27777351
https://www.newsweek.com/candidate-running-primary-elise-stefanik-says-people-should-able-own-nuke-1606617
https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-legalize-recreational-nuclear-weapons-0e0861b0-bfdc-480c-887e-195e1a20b365
Thanks for that. Okay, you have certainly found a couple of politicians who do support ownership of private nuclear weapons - one who was a former vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas but as far as I can tell has never actually served in office, and the other a member of the House of Representatives who also calls the idea crazy.
Oh, and a failed change.org petition that is likely with less than 300 signatures and also reads like a joke.
I concede that such politicians exist, although if that was the best you could find they are clearly rarer than hen's teeth.
From the above, should we generalize that all Second Amendment supporters are in favor of the right to bear nuclear arms? What part of 'shall not be infringed' is unclear?
First of all, let me be clear that I agree that most people who are pro-abortion (including those who have had or are involved in performing abortions) do not like the idea of late term abortion, full-term abortion, partial birth abortion, or anything like that. However, your allegation that people who are in support of abortion up to the point of birth are equal in number or percentage or whatever comparison you want to those who support private ownership of nuclear weapons is still preposterous.
Couldn't find the raw data, but the Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll shows 6% who believe that abortion should be permitted "up until the birth of the child".
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/446367-poll-nearly-half-of-americans-say-supreme-court-should-uphold-roe-v-wade/
This COSA poll (https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/COSA-Abortion-Full-Report-0511.pdf) shows that 11.6% of respondents and 18.8% of Democrats support abortion "up until the moment of birth, including partial birth" but that poll didn't have any option between second trimester and the up to point of birth, so I think that is a weak poll.
If you need me to provide some quotes from mainstream pro-abortion politicians in support of the idea that a woman should be able to kill her baby up to the point of birth (not generic late term abortions) I'd be happy to do so.
Because of the extrapolation here that if you do not oppose all abortions under all circumstances, you are a supporter of abortion on demand at the time of birth and baby chop shops. There is no middle ground.
??? I know you are trying to play the "reasonable centrist" role, but I'm not sure you understand your opposition.
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Amazon employees want Amazon to crease doing business in states where abortion is illegal and are requesting time off to grieve the SC ruling.
Cope and SEETHE: Woke Amazon employees demand Amazon cease doing business in pro-life states PLUS time off to ‘grieve’ Roe
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/cope-and-seethe-woke-amazon-employees-demand-amazon-cease-doing-business-in-pro-life-states-plus-time-off-to-grieve-roe/
The letter was edited to add more inclusive language
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1541557369179619331/photo/1
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWS2QIvXgAEHuYD?format=jpg&name=medium)
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According to the new law, every unborn child being brought to a Texas abortion clinic will be surgically issued a tiny AR-15, which will be placed in his tiny hand. Once a buzzer goes off, the abortionist will have only a few seconds to complete the abortion without being shot. Babies unable to grasp the tiny rifle due to disability will be allowed to call Kyle Rittenhouse to defend them.
Compromise: Texas Says Abortion Can Remain Legal But The Baby Gets An AR-15 To Defend Himself
https://babylonbee.com/news/compromise-texas-says-abortion-can-remain-legal-but-the-baby-gets-an-ar-15-to-defend-himself
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I saw this morning that Amazon, along with dozens of other big corps, are paying in full for relocation for employees from restrictive to non-restrictive abortion states and travel expenses for out of state abortions for employees.
I'm wondering if they will also offer relocation fees for employees to move to states that restrict abortions, if that is the employee's belief?
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Pocahontas wants abortion tents set up in National Parks.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/heap-big-crazy-elizabeth-warren-pushes-biden-to-set-up-planned-parenthood-outposts-tents-on-edges-of-national-parks/
I could see a fight starting up over who came up with the idea first
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: “Open abortion clinics on federal lands in red states right now!”
“Right now!” pic.twitter.com/sFvl101mSt
— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) June 28, 2022
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/28/aoc-shrieks-at-president-biden-to-implement-the-babiest-of-the-babiest-of-the-baby-steps-to-abort-babies-in-red-states/
I say let them fight
In Thunderdome!
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Amazon employees want Amazon to crease doing business in states where abortion is illegal and are requesting time off to grieve the SC ruling.
That makes me want to search for the most anti-abortion organization on Amazon Smile (if they even list such) and switch to that.
But yeah, Amazon, definitely prohibit online sales in all states that have abortion restrictions, including the rural and remote customers who you always talked about serving when no one else would.
This is as stupid as some Hollywood celebrity I saw a clip of this morning talking about how CA and NY should be telling "that red stuff in the middle" what to do, because they're in charge.
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The sad thing is, they could probably have an effect on red state abortion policy if they shut down the distribution centers here.
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Are Sen Warren and Rep Ocassio-Cortez under the impression that just because you are on federally owned land you are exempt from following State and Local laws? Because that is not strictly speaking true. The DOD spends a lot of time and effort having to comply with State laws on our bases.
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I saw this morning that Amazon, along with dozens of other big corps, are paying in full for relocation for employees from restrictive to non-restrictive abortion states and travel expenses for out of state abortions for employees.
I'm wondering if they will also offer relocation fees for employees to move to states that restrict abortions, if that is the employee's belief?
Snuffing a fetus out is a lot cheaper than paying for it for 26 years..it’s just good business.
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Snuffing a fetus out is a lot cheaper than paying for it for 26 years..it’s just good business.
And you can make a buck selling the baby pieces to the medical industry.
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I talk with many on the left: support for late-term abortion is incredibly small, and rabidly vocal. Very similar to the trans bathroom issue years ago: most of the (at the time, tiny) trans community weren't the ones raising hell about it
It is small, but not that small. I read the other day that those that support no time limits on abortion are somewhere between 10-20% of the population (I forget exactly). Lots of politicians are in there. Just the other day that is what the gov of NYC said he wanted. That is the position of NARAL, with millions of members.
Most importantly, right now there are no limits on abortion until birth in these states:
Alaska, Colorado, District of Columbia, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont.
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Extremism on the left is mainstream. Extremism on the right, to the extent it actually exists, is fringe.
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"If HE'S denied an abortion"
"This is not an empty threat. It's a promise. There is no peaceful end to this"
A Minnesota trans furry using the alias "Corvynn Carstensen" promises to attack the U.S. Supreme Court in a suicide bombing if he's denied an abortion.https://t.co/IHTrdOdEQ7 https://t.co/DDx6TA0apz pic.twitter.com/rC8AFWsYtK
— Andy Ngô 🏳️🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) June 27, 2022
Then he claims he's joking.
I can't tell anymore.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/28/report-minnesota-trans-furry-promises-to-suicide-bomb-the-supreme-court-if-hes-ever-denied-an-abortion/
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Well, my days of taking him as a joke are definitely coming to a middle.
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No comment:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWLE-8mWQAEQ2-f?format=jpg&name=small)
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No comment:
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWLE-8mWQAEQ2-f?format=jpg&name=sm
I watched video of a local protest / counter-protest that just happened here. Let's just say the average physical appearance between the two sides was notable. I wouldn't wish some of those purple hairs on my worst enemy.
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No comment:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWLE-8mWQAEQ2-f?format=jpg&name=small)
That is a self correcting issue.
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(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/Dead_Whale.JPG_EzMisg1.jpg)
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The comments are gold, Jerry! Gold! :rofl:
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/29/dana-loesch-and-mary-katharine-ham-go-there-in-response-to-jane-fondas-latest-on-guns-and-abortion/
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OMG! Babylon Bee could have written that headline :rofl:
does anyone have VIP access?
David Hogg’s ‘not going to have kids in a country’ where abortion’s restricted, warns of US ‘having a brain drain problem’ if others follow his lead
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/29/david-hogg-says-hes-not-going-to-have-kids-in-a-country-where-abortions-restricted-warns-of-us-having-a-brain-drain-problem-if-others-follow-his-lead/
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But this isn't funny
The website the White House highlighted includes information for minors, children "15 or younger," on how they can bypass parental notification laws. https://t.co/7vbKofIY7K
— Philip Melanchthon Wegmann (@PhilipWegmann) June 28, 2022
Trying find find that section
Joe Biden’s WH steers public to abortion advice website featuring instructions for minor girls who don’t want their parents to know
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/29/joe-bidens-wh-steers-public-to-abortion-advice-website-featuring-instructions-for-minor-girls-who-dont-want-their-parents-to-know/
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OMG! Babylon Bee could have written that headline :rofl:
does anyone have VIP access?
David Hogg’s ‘not going to have kids in a country’ where abortion’s restricted, warns of US ‘having a brain drain problem’ if others follow his lead
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/29/david-hogg-says-hes-not-going-to-have-kids-in-a-country-where-abortions-restricted-warns-of-us-having-a-brain-drain-problem-if-others-follow-his-lead/
Now that I've gotten the beverage out of my nose...
Doesn't he know that women will be forced to give birth? And he's going to assert his cishet white male privilege by not having children?
Guess he's not an ally.
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Doesn't he know that women will be forced to give birth? And he's going to assert his cishet white male privilege by not having children?
Dude, now is not the time to try to talk someone out of chastity. Let him roll with it.
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Dude, now is not the time to try to talk someone out of chastity. Let him roll with it.
Aren't you worried that Hogg’s considerable brain power will not be passed down to a future generation?
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Aren't you worried that Hogg’s considerable brain power will not be passed down to a future generation?
:rofl:
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No comment:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWLE-8mWQAEQ2-f?format=jpg&name=small)
Not with a stolen dick.
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Aren't you worried that Hogg’s considerable brain power will not be passed down to a future generation?
Hogg is a homosexual; hopefully future generations will be spared his progeny.
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Dude, now is not the time to try to talk someone out of chastity. Let him roll with it.
No deadnaming! Chastity is now Chaz.
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https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/men-rush-to-get-vasectomies-after-roe-ruling/
Huh, I need to ask our urology department at work if we have seen a spike.
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Lead this is balloon. Balloon this is lead
Democrats really upping their pro-America midterm messaging game (it’s now been deleted).
https://twitter.com/ThePowersThatBe/status/1542986099274010625
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So stunning, so brave.
.@AOC says she is getting her nails done as an act of “resistance” post-Dobbs. pic.twitter.com/jqFA1PyhJk
— John Gage (@johnrobertgage) July 2, 2022
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/01/aoc-shares-her-personal-act-of-reclamation-in-response-to-scotus-overturning-roe/
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I'm no beautician, but isn't red a fairly popular choice for nails? Sorta like painting your Model T black if you're against prohibition.
Red should match her handmaid's robes, though.
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Her fingernails are in a red state.
ETA:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWoGYBpXoAMMA5P?format=jpg&name=large)
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Lead this is balloon. Balloon this is lead
Democrats really upping their pro-America midterm messaging game (it’s now been deleted).
https://twitter.com/ThePowersThatBe/status/1542986099274010625
Check out their explanation.
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/01/pima-county-dems-explains-why-it-shared-the-f-the-4th-flyer/
It's basically: "We fully support this America-hating event, but we apologize for revealing how anti-American it's going to be."
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Lefty goes on vulgarity-laden tirade, berating the limousine liberals for sending him fund-raising letters.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/01/nancy-pelosis-strategy-of-terrifying-liberals-into-sending-dems-money-may-not-be-as-brilliant-as-she-thinks/
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Lefty goes on vulgarity-laden tirade, berating the limousine liberals for sending him fund-raising letters.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/01/nancy-pelosis-strategy-of-terrifying-liberals-into-sending-dems-money-may-not-be-as-brilliant-as-she-thinks/
All democrats should be as mad. RBG warned them it would be overturned because it was crap. When the dem's had the supermajority what did they do? Shoved unaffordable healthcare up our butts. I wouldn't be sick all the time if I still had my plan I had before that.
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Lefty goes on vulgarity-laden tirade, berating the limousine liberals for sending him fund-raising letters.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/01/nancy-pelosis-strategy-of-terrifying-liberals-into-sending-dems-money-may-not-be-as-brilliant-as-she-thinks/
I get text messages that are supposedly from Republicans like that. I delete them. I have no idea who they are actually from. I don't want to tap any links. Probably the same outfit.
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All democrats should be as mad. RBG warned them it would be overturned because it was crap. When the dem's had the supermajority what did they do? Shoved unaffordable healthcare up our butts. I wouldn't be sick all the time if I still had my plan I had before that.
And RBG was warned she should retire while her friends were in charge.
It's insane how upset these people are about losing their absolute right to unlimited prenatal bloodshed.
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My company sent out an Independence Day newsletter. We received a number of positive responses to the article about the impact signing the declaration had on some of the founding fathers. And two complaints about how terrible and tone deaf it was because abortion.
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My company sent out an Independence Day newsletter. We received a number of positive responses to the article about the impact signing the declaration had on some of the founding fathers. And two complaints about how terrible and tone deaf it was because abortion.
YGBFSM!!! :mad:
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And RBG was warned she should retire while her friends were in charge.
It's insane how upset these people are about losing their absolute right to unlimited prenatal bloodshed.
I'm sure some survivors of the Nazi party were sad they could no longer kill the unwanted on demand too. Party's over.
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My company sent out an Independence Day newsletter. We received a number of positive responses to the article about the impact signing the declaration had on some of the founding fathers. And two complaints about how terrible and tone deaf it was because abortion.
Send them theses links
https://www.kayak.com/flight-routes/United-States-US0/Cuba-CU0
https://www.kayak.com/flight-routes/United-States-US0/Venezuela-VE0
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When stupid doesn't work double down on the stupid
Women’s March Independence Day message is another one that belongs in an ad (for the GOP)
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/07/02/womens-march-independence-day-message-is-another-one-that-belongs-in-an-ad-for-the-gop/
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AOC vs the history of medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/02/dont-tell-aoc-that-people-in-the-1800s-knew-what-an-ectopic-pregnancy-was/
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AOC vs the history of medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/02/dont-tell-aoc-that-people-in-the-1800s-knew-what-an-ectopic-pregnancy-was/
You got to remember doctors in the 1950s had no idea how to properly gender a baby too
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"Pro life people have blood on their hands"
And she learned a lot about Naizs so she knows fascism.
Little secret, the Nazis weren't fascists
Activist @Jamie_Margolin on EPA ruling: “This is a judicial coup at this point … a clear descent into fascism … I grew up learning a lot about Nazi Germany and … The important thing to remember is that it can happen here … These pro-life people have blood on their hands.”
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/02/climate-activist-tells-msnbc-supreme-courts-epa-ruling-is-a-judicial-coup-and-a-clear-descent-into-fascism/
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Being opposed to killing innocent people means you have blood on your hands. These people really live in an echo chamber.
;/
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"Pro life people have blood on their hands"
And she learned a lot about Naizs so she knows fascism.
Little secret, the Nazis weren't fascists
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/02/climate-activist-tells-msnbc-supreme-courts-epa-ruling-is-a-judicial-coup-and-a-clear-descent-into-fascism/
The EPA ruling is fascist - because fascism is all about reigning in executive branch power, and returning power to the legislature. We all remember Mussolini cruelly forcing Italian lawmakers to take responsibility for environmental regulation.
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Google will help hide your internet activities from the state if any of it concerns looking to get an abortion.
Part of me says good since it's none of the state business where you go on the internet but the other part says it's akin to helping covering up a murder. It's the how selective they're being aspect that has me troubled as well.
Google's senior vice president of core systems and experiences, Jen Fitzpatrick, announced that if its systems identify that someone has visited an abortion website, Google will delete these entries from Location History soon after they visit.
Google to Clear Search History of Users Visiting Abortion Clinics
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/07/03/google-to-clear-search-history-of-users-visiting-abortion-clinics-n2609701
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It's the how selective they're being aspect that has me troubled as well.
Indeed. They'll be happy to share your visit to the Brownell's site, or to a Christian church site. Among dozens, if not hundreds of other websites with subjects they don't approve of.
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Indeed. They'll be happy to share your visit to the Brownell's site, or to a Christian church site. Among dozens, if not hundreds of other websites with subjects they don't approve of.
Woke liberals are the embodiment of hypocrisy.
And if you mention that to them, they won't have any idea what you're talking about.
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Some interesting comments on the "10 year old pregnant girl who couldn't get an abortion because of SCOTUS" that has been all over the MSM:
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/07/07/boomity-receipt-filled-thread-on-the-so-called-pregnant-10-year-old-girl-story-media-and-pro-aborts-keep-pushing-an-epic-must-read/
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Regardless of where you stand on abortion, every law I've ever seen on it, including Ohio's 6 week ban, has exceptions for endangering the life or health of the mother. I asked 4 separate healthcare professionals I know and they all said 10 YO's body is almost certainly not through puberty enough to safely carry a baby to term and give birth. I don't believe that there wasn't a Dr. in Ohio that felt that way and would have legally terminated this pregnancy.
If that story's not completely made up propaganda, it's being purposely twisted to hit emotions.
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(https://img.patriotpost.us/01G7C4PBBMXFBGCGNDJ5B712GA.jpeg)
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Regardless of where you stand on abortion, every law I've ever seen on it, including Ohio's 6 week ban, has exceptions for endangering the life or health of the mother. I asked 4 separate healthcare professionals I know and they all said 10 YO's body is almost certainly not through puberty enough to safely carry a baby to term and give birth. I don't believe that there wasn't a Dr. in Ohio that felt that way and would have legally terminated this pregnancy.
If that story's not completely made up propaganda, it's being purposely twisted to hit emotions.
Just to be able to get pregnant at 10 the girl has probably experienced precocious puberty. World record for youngest girl to give live birth was a 5 or 6 year old in Peru in the 1930’s (my recollection was that poor kid got her period before turning 1, a pretty extreme case of precocious puberty). So, while certainly high risk, it’s not impossible for a 10 year old to carry a pregnancy at least to viability. Full term might not be advisable, but 25-30 weeks is likely feasible. From a pro-life perspective that’s a situation that would require a lot of medical monitoring, and otherwise treating it like any high risk pregnancy. And in the event that she couldn’t survive to carry to viability then any treatment necessary should be done to preserve her life. Most likely the child would wind up being raised by someone other than the birth mother as she won’t have the maturity to handle that, even if her body could sustain a pregnancy until viability.
That said, there’s also zero chance of legal consent to sexual activity at that age. So at a bare minimum, assuming it’s not entirely made up propaganda, she’s a victim of rape, and typically in these cases also incest.
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^^^We have seen a few cases of this in our clinics with women under the age of 13 becoming pregnant. They are all a mandatory report to Child Protective Services. If I am recalling correctly, many of the cases are either brother/sister incest or mom's boyfriend. I had to show up in court once and testify as to details of one of the cases.
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many of the cases are either brother/sister incest or mom's boyfriend.
Eww on the first, grrrr on the second.
Brad
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Just to be able to get pregnant at 10 the girl has probably experienced precocious puberty. World record for youngest girl to give live birth was a 5 or 6 year old in Peru in the 1930’s (my recollection was that poor kid got her period before turning 1, a pretty extreme case of precocious puberty).
Remember hearing about that, Meant some guy did the dirty with a 5 year old. :facepalm:
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Remember hearing about that, Meant some guy did the dirty with a 5 year old. :facepalm:
Her father was the prime suspect, but back then they couldn’t prove it and she never identified the bio-father. So nobody was prosecuted.
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Eww on the first, grrrr on the second.
Brad
The first seemed to happen more frequently with step siblings, not blood siblings.
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The first seemed to happen more frequently with step siblings, not blood siblings.
Do predators seek out those opportunities? I assume so.
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Do predators seek out those opportunities? I assume so.
Yes, and no. With youth sex offenders it’s pretty common to have “situational” offenders vs predatory. Situational offenders are like it sounds, they find themselves in a situation where they can satisfy their sexual urges, and they may not fully understand the wrongness of doing so. Often the offender is also a prior victim and/or is living in an environment of few or no boundaries (sexual or otherwise) so they really don’t comprehend the magnitude of their actions. Only good news with such people is that with good counseling recidivism is very low.
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EU Parliament votes 324-155 to condemn SCOTUS for overturning Roe v. Wade
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/07/eu-parliament-votes-324-155-to-condemn-scotus-for-overturning-roe-v-wade/
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/uXVEhtcVDD7q0/giphy.gif)
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Who the **** cares?
EU Parliament votes 324-155 to condemn SCOTUS for overturning Roe v. Wade
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/07/eu-parliament-votes-324-155-to-condemn-scotus-for-overturning-roe-v-wade/
I'm so proud of our Supreme Court right now.
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/4wtB4CWfozIcJR36XUh7tdqsFHuUmd6lkOpyRNePeRI/rs:fit:498:273:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YS50ZW5vci5jby9p/bWFnZXMvN2UwYmRk/ZWZhNjEwNWEwMDY1/MGY2ZmE0ZWE5ODI5/MjEvcmF3)
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Do predators seek out those opportunities? I assume so.
My experience with child sexual abuse cases is that yes, some predators DO actively seek single mothers for this reason
Not to sound bad, but the plainer/frumpier mom is, the more likely to be targeted (since "it's so hard to get a man")
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I'm so proud of our Supreme Court right now.
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/4wtB4CWfozIcJR36XUh7tdqsFHuUmd6lkOpyRNePeRI/rs:fit:498:273:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YS50ZW5vci5jby9p/bWFnZXMvN2UwYmRk/ZWZhNjEwNWEwMDY1/MGY2ZmE0ZWE5ODI5/MjEvcmF3)
Why are you using a clip from "Dr. Who"?? ??? :O
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EU Parliament votes 324-155 to condemn SCOTUS for overturning Roe v. Wade
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/07/eu-parliament-votes-324-155-to-condemn-scotus-for-overturning-roe-v-wade/
This coming from people from countries that often have stricter limits for abortion than much of the US, even with Roe flushed down the tubes.
I guess it makes them feel good to pretend to be outraged.
https://reproductiverights.org/maps/worlds-abortion-laws/
bob
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Why are you using a clip from "Dr. Who"?? ??? :O
Ew, gross. I just image-searched for gifs of people crying.
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Ew, gross. I just image-searched for gifs of people crying.
The man is long time actor Bernard Cribbins (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0187754/?ref_=hm_rvi_nm_i_2). Many years ago, he co-starred with Ursula Andress in the movie "She" and, at 79, became not only the oldest companion of the Doctor but he is also the only actor to have starred in one of the Peter Cushing "Dr. Who" films in the early '60s (the 2nd one) AND in the subsequent TV series.
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So I guess given what the white house said about Kavanaugh after he was run out of a DC restaurant by protestors just a couple of weeks after an assassination attempt, this is cool with the white house too:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/shutdowndc-group-offers-bounties-twitter-public-sightings-conservative-supreme-court-justices
I guarantee Biden would be old man yelling whatever "the domestic terrorists" stuff his interns told him to say if this happened to Sotomayor.
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So I guess given what the white house said about Kavanaugh after he was run out of a DC restaurant by protestors just a couple of weeks after an assassination attempt, this is cool with the white house too:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/shutdowndc-group-offers-bounties-twitter-public-sightings-conservative-supreme-court-justices
I guarantee Biden would be old man yelling whatever "the domestic terrorists" stuff his interns told him to say if this happened to Sotomayor.
Now that Musk has been frustrated in his attempt to buy twitter they will probably double down on this double standard stuff.
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Apparently they're now messing with the restaurant chain where Kavanaugh was eating by making mass fake reservations. Morton’s is canceling suspected reservations and is now requiring a credit card to make one and guess what the lib reaction is? Declaring that racist of course.
Replying to @williamlegate and @OpenTable
🚨 People of color & other minority groups are reporting that they may be being *targeted* by Morton's Steakhouse with reservation cancellations
Oh and they're mass dropping 1 star reviews on Yelp and Yelp has suspended reviews for the chain
Blue-check lib pillow guy plays the race card after Morton’s cancels fake reservations
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/09/blue-check-lib-pillow-guy-plays-the-race-card-after-mortons-cancels-fake-reservations/
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I was actually gonna post that I was surprisingly pleased to read the response from Morton's management on the incident. Especially from how other restaurants reacted to the same incidents with conservative congressionals last year.
I've (years ago) been to that particular Morton's. Great place and awesome steaks. My vegetarian girlfriend at the time even did a meat cheat there. :laugh:
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I'd be OH so very upset if one of these clowns tried to get up close to one of the justices and caught a round from their security detail...
Oh so very upset...
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Hell, I'd be happy to see some stun guns and Tazers brought in to play by security details when this sort of *expletive deleted*it goes on.
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I'd be OH so very upset if one of these clowns tried to get up close to one of the justices and caught a round from their security detail...
Oh so very upset...
Or a broken arm, broken nose, and dislocated shoulder.
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I'd be OH so very upset if one of these clowns tried to get up close to one of the justices and caught a round from their security detail...
Oh so very upset...
That would mean the cowardly justice injustice was hiding behind his security, as they used guns to impose the views of the fascist patriarchy.
But I agree with you.
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I saw that AOC was calling Kavanaugh a big baby. Yet if someone did the same to her, she'd be calling out an 06JAN committee for being "almost murdered".
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Biden on the "10 year old". ;/
https://twitter.com/i/status/1545444780108353536
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/07/09/wapo-fact-checker-unable-to-verify-abortion-story-biden-told-yesterday/
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Biden on the "10 year old". ;/
https://twitter.com/i/status/1545444780108353536
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/07/09/wapo-fact-checker-unable-to-verify-abortion-story-biden-told-yesterday/
The girl lived in one of those red states, where they have no roads or photocopiers. She had to join a wagon train to Chicago to find a hospital.
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Oh cry me a river
BREAKING: Woke female Army soldier questions loyalty to United States after Roe reversal
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-woke-female-army-soldier-questions-loyalty-to-united-states-after-roe-v-wade-decision
"How am I supposed to wake up every day and put on a freaking uniform that says United States Army when the United States doesn't even give a rat's ass about me," the soldier said.
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Here's AOC on the Kavanaugh restaurant kerfuffle
Miss They Tried To Rape Me On Jan 6th says what Kavanaugh went through is nothing compared to the threats she and other left wingers been getting from far right wingers which has force them to ride in armored vehicles.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
@AOC
Many of us have spent weeks in armored vehicles & traveling through backs of buildings bc of right-wing threats. You don’t hear much about it.
@GOPLeader McCarthy said he wants to promote House members who incited violence.
Their feigned horror at protest is a silencing tactic.
4:05 PM · Jul 9, 2022
AOC says you didn’t hear much about the weeks she traveled in armored vehicles
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/09/aoc-says-you-didnt-hear-much-about-the-weeks-she-traveled-in-armored-vehicles/
Yeah....
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Here's AOC on the Kavanaugh restaurant kerfuffle
Miss They Tried To Rape Me On Jan 6th says what Kavanaugh went through is nothing compared to the threats she and other left wingers been getting from far right wingers which has force them to ride in armored vehicles.
AOC says you didn’t hear much about the weeks she traveled in armored vehicles
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/09/aoc-says-you-didnt-hear-much-about-the-weeks-she-traveled-in-armored-vehicles/
Yeah....
Doesn't she rep that state (and the city) that keeps denying self-defense to its subjects? I feel so sorry for her. Really.
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Doesn't she rep that state (and the city) that keeps denying self-defense to its subjects? I feel so sorry for her. Really.
I don't feel the least bit sorry for her or anyone who voted for her and the other dems in that state. Same for several politicians and their voters in several other states.
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I don't feel the least bit sorry for her or anyone who voted for her and the other dems in that state. Same for several politicians and their voters in several other states.
Did my sarcasm not come through?
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Did my sarcasm not come through?
Yes it did.
It just the bad mood I get in whenever I look at her and think about who voted her in not once but twice.
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At one time Teen Vogue was all about makeup, the latest fashions, dating tips, and boy bands.
Now it's articles on the joys of anal sex, coming out tips, and how to get around abortion laws to murder your child without your parents knowing.
Titled "How to Get an Abortion If You're a Teen After Roe v. Wade Was Overturned," contributor Lauren Rankin provided a detailed guide for how minors can "navigate abortion restrictions as a teenager," and mostly without their parents ever knowing.
The article accused pro-life states of punishing and criticizing people who even just ask questions about abortion.
Teen Vogue Publishes Secret Abortion Guide for Young Girls
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/07/10/teen-vogue-publishes-secret-abortion-guide-for-young-girls-n2609974
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AOC opened her mouth again. Not that it's ever closed. I mean if she closed her mouth her brain might start working and she's been doing her level best to avoid that.
She equates someone taking her picture to what happened to Kavanaugh
Literally SHAKING: AOC claiming someone taking her picture is the SAME as pro-abort harpies harassing Kavanaugh goes SO wrong
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/07/12/literally-shaking-aoc-claiming-someone-taking-her-picture-is-the-same-as-pro-abort-harpies-harassing-kavanaugh-goes-so-wrong/
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Did she die again?
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The Feds wish to remind hospitals of their obligations under EMTALA regardless of state law. Hospitals can be fined or eliminated from Medicare/Medicaid for EMTALA violations, so we pay close attention to EMTALA issues.
I received this reminder this morning from the Feds:
https://www.cms.gov/files/document/qso-22-22-hospitals.pdf
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/07/11/following-president-bidens-executive-order-protect-access-reproductive-health-care-hhs-announces-guidance-clarify-that-emergency-medical-care-includes-abortion-services.html
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Under what conditions would an abortion be the proper "treatment" and the issue not be a miscarriage or a premature birth? I can't think of a scenario, but I am not in that profession.
1. Later in pregnancy, I can't see where an abortion is the answer versus a premature birth. They have to try to save the baby rather than kill it in the womb.
2. Earlier in pregnancy, I am not sure what health issues can come up that are a threat to the mother's health.
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Here's AOC on the Kavanaugh restaurant kerfuffle
Miss They Tried To Rape Me On Jan 6th says what Kavanaugh went through is nothing compared to the threats she and other left wingers been getting from far right wingers which has force them to ride in armored vehicles.
AOC says you didn’t hear much about the weeks she traveled in armored vehicles
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/09/aoc-says-you-didnt-hear-much-about-the-weeks-she-traveled-in-armored-vehicles/
Yeah....
Democrats have loved riding in armor for a long time . . . too bad AOC didn't pose for a picture.
(https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-NO700_offscr_P_20160415131024.jpg)
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Pro-Abortion Group Threatens Southern States with ‘Floating Abortion Clinic’ in Gulf of Mexico
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/10/pro-abortion-group-threatens-southern-states-with-floating-abortion-clinic-in-gulf-of-mexico/
They are going to keep trying. The "crazy Christians" some people seem to be worried about have nothing on these leftists.
“Those in the most southern parts of Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, and Texas may be closer to the coast than to facilities in bordering states where abortion and reproductive health care are available, PRROWESS’s website says about the effort. “The clinic will be able to offer services such as contraception and point of care STI testing that may not be offered at the closest land facilities.”
Why even mention this part. Everyone knows none of those other services need to be on a boat and are likely available at doctor's offices onshore. If they want to set up an abortion boat, just do it. Does the support for this stuff fall off if they don't talk about general reproductive medical care?
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Under what conditions would an abortion be the proper "treatment" and the issue not be a miscarriage or a premature birth? I can't think of a scenario, but I am not in that profession.
The letter from HHS provides some examples, such as ectopic pregnancy, miscarriage, or pre-eclampsia. I have not yet talked to my ED or OBG staff, but I doubt if we see many such cases coming in through the ED, and miscarriage would be the most common.
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/emergency-medical-care-letter-to-health-care-providers.pdf
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Pro-Abortion Group Threatens Southern States with ‘Floating Abortion Clinic’ in Gulf of Mexico
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/10/pro-abortion-group-threatens-southern-states-with-floating-abortion-clinic-in-gulf-of-mexico/
They are going to keep trying. The "crazy Christians" some people seem to be worried about have nothing on these leftists.
Why even mention this part. Everyone knows none of those other services need to be on a boat and are likely available at doctor's offices onshore. If they want to set up an abortion boat, just do it. Does the support for this stuff fall off if they don't talk about general reproductive medical care?
They could set up their own country in the middle of Seattle where abortion is free for all.
Maybe call it Chaz or something. No police, free abortions 24/7.
Since they seemed to have trouble growing food in the city they can import the abundant excess food being grown in that Black Hammer commune in Colorado
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The letter from HHS provides some examples, such as ectopic pregnancy, miscarriage, or pre-eclampsia. I have not yet talked to my ED or OBG staff, but I doubt if we see many such cases coming in through the ED, and miscarriage would be the most common.
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/emergency-medical-care-letter-to-health-care-providers.pdf
Thanks. 2 of those three sound pretty rare and can likely be documented. I have never heard of miscarriage being called an abortion.
Doesn't seem like a major concern.
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Thanks. 2 of those three sound pretty rare and can likely be documented. I have never heard of miscarriage being called an abortion.
Doesn't seem like a major concern.
The other sticky wicket, of course, is that only a relatively small percentage of hospitals have someone on the medical staff who could do a surgical abortion in an emergency situation. If there is no one on the medical staff or the hospital does not have facilities, the patient has to be transferred to a facility who can offer that service. This is no different from other EMTALA situations, in which a patient is brought into the ED needing advanced trauma care that is not available, so the patient gets transferred to the local trauma center.
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I have never heard of miscarriage being called an abortion.
That's what the paperwork called it when my wife miscarried.
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That's what the paperwork called it when my wife miscarried.
In healthcare 'spontaneous abortion' = miscarriage.
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I'm becoming quite fascinated by the left's war on itself over the abortion ruling being a war on women versus a "war on people who get pregnant".
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/07/12/insanity-sen-hawley-drags-pro-abort-witness-who-called-him-transphobic-for-suggesting-only-women-can-get-pregnant-watch/
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The Post Millennial
@TPostMillennial
Sen. John Cornyn to law professor Khiara Bridge: "Do you think that a baby that is not yet born has value?"
Watch how she avoids answering that question by answering a more "interesting question" instead.
https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1546915804268183554
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Watch how she avoids answering that question by answering a more "interesting question" instead.
https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1546915804268183554
John Cornyn is one of the traitors who signed onto the Democrat almost-gun control bill. Probably trying to do anything to look better to voters.
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John Cornyn is one of the traitors who signed onto the Democrat almost-gun control bill. Probably trying to do anything to look better to voters.
Thought that name rang a bell.
At least on this he appears to be on the right side.
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Being on the right side of the left is a long way from being on the right.
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Being on the right side of the left is a long way from being on the right.
I was referring on the right as in correct side of this issue not the on right of politics.
And did say "appears" since I don't trust ANY of these SOBs
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The letter from HHS provides some examples, such as ectopic pregnancy, miscarriage, or pre-eclampsia. I have not yet talked to my ED or OBG staff, but I doubt if we see many such cases coming in through the ED, and miscarriage would be the most common.
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/emergency-medical-care-letter-to-health-care-providers.pdf
Even the most extreme pro-lifers that I’ve ever heard don’t call treating an ectopic pregnancy an abortion. Even though fetal death is a certain outcome. Because the primary purpose is to save the woman (and her future fertility), not to kill the baby. There have been an infinitesimal number of pregnancies outside the uterus that have resulted in live birth, but I’m unaware of any that occur in the Fallopian tube surviving to even anything close to viability. Ectopic is technically any pregnancy not in the uterus, in the tube is just the most common variant. An embryo can implant in the abdomen outside the tubes, and once in a blue moon those babies survive to be born, but it’s super high risk.
Pre-eclampsia is typically not a feature in pregnancy before 20 weeks and is often treatable for quite a while. It would a pretty rare case of pre-eclampsia that became life threatening in spite of typical treatment before the baby is viable. It’s not terribly uncommon to need to end the pregnancy before full term but this does not necessitate killing the baby. Premature birth, sure. But killing the baby is basically never an absolute necessity to treating pre-eclampsia. I’m sure there’s a case somewhere that has occurred that killing the baby was actually necessary, but that’s an extreme outlier.
A miscarriage may very well require a D&C. But that is also not an abortion (never mind the medical terminology of a miscarriage being a “spontaneous abortion”). It might involve removing the remains of the fetus, but said fetus is already dead from natural causes in that case.
I have yet to hear of a case where killing the baby as the primary goal is medically necessary, with no feasible alternative treatment.
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I really hope some doctors don't try to use that stuff as an excuse to perform abortions. It is just going to create a mess and probably trigger legislatures to add layers of reporting/bureaucracy to stop it. It will still probably happen.
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Pro-Abortion Group Threatens Southern States with ‘Floating Abortion Clinic’ in Gulf of Mexico
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/10/pro-abortion-group-threatens-southern-states-with-floating-abortion-clinic-in-gulf-of-mexico/
They are going to keep trying. The "crazy Christians" some people seem to be worried about have nothing on these leftists.
That would be a long way from any hospital, if things go wrong.
I guess it's OK if Californians and New Yorkers keep their ARs and non-approved handguns on barges at sea?
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"Unborn child" is another one of these Orwellian terms designed to short-circuit our ability to think and speak about human existence and life with necessary complexity; the point is to use language as a vehicle for replacing reality with right-wing orthodoxy.
— Jill Filipovic (@JillFilipovic) July 12, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/12/jill-filipovic-says-unborn-child-is-an-orwellian-term-to-short-circuit-our-ability-to-think-about-human-existence/
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif)
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https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/12/jill-filipovic-says-unborn-child-is-an-orwellian-term-to-short-circuit-our-ability-to-think-about-human-existence/
I recall APS members complaining it was misleading to call abortion victims children or babies.
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I recall APS members complaining it was misleading to call abortion victims children or babies.
I doubt they were using the same "reasoning"
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I doubt they were using the same "reasoning"
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
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That would be a long way from any hospital, if things go wrong.
I guess it's OK if Californians and New Yorkers keep their ARs and non-approved handguns on barges at sea?
My prediction would be if it happened, the conditions aboard the ship would be pretty bad. I predict it would be done cheaply with too low of a budget and become a mess.
Does anyone know if there are international law type regulations on anything that might be considered a hospital ship performing medical procedures?
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Little known fact:
Even in international waters a ship and it's crew are bound by the laws of the flag they are sailing under. Countries that dislike what a ship is doing under their flag can and do revoke the registration of the ship. (See: Sea Shepherds)
I assume these idiots will start by taking their Bayliner 13 miles out, then be arrested for breaking any number of US laws regarding medical treatment.
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Little known fact:
Even in international waters a ship and it's crew are bound by the laws of the flag they are sailing under. Countries that dislike what a ship is doing under their flag can and do revoke the registration of the ship. (See: Sea Shepherds)
I assume these idiots will start by taking their Bayliner 13 miles out, then be arrested for breaking any number of US laws regarding medical treatment.
Search for "Flags of Convenience."
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There is already an abortion ship that travels around killing children off the coasts of countries that ban abortion, such as in much of South America.
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Search for "Flags of Convenience."
I am very familiar with the subject, I was just pointing out that it's more complicated than the wokies probably think.
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They arrested a guy for raping that 10 year old girl.
Gershon Fuentes, a ‘believed to be undocumented’ immigrant, arrested for the rape of a 10-year-old Ohio girl who traveled to Indiana for an abortion
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/13/gershon-fuentes-a-believed-to-be-undocumented-immigrant-arrested-for-the-rape-of-a-10-year-old-ohio-girl-who-traveled-to-indiana-for-an-abortion/
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"Abortion is self-love."
Seems like a really bad take as something you put in the "pro" column.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/13/abortion-storyteller-tells-congress-that-her-abortion-was-an-act-of-self-love/
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They arrested a guy for raping that 10 year old girl.
Gershon Fuentes, a ‘believed to be undocumented’ immigrant, arrested for the rape of a 10-year-old Ohio girl who traveled to Indiana for an abortion
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/13/gershon-fuentes-a-believed-to-be-undocumented-immigrant-arrested-for-the-rape-of-a-10-year-old-ohio-girl-who-traveled-to-indiana-for-an-abortion/
I just read an article about this in the Columbus newspaper, and it was not specified how he had access to the girl, who would have been nine years old at the time of the rape. Was he a stranger, friend of the family, boyfriend to the mother or what, I wonder.
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I'll add to that and ask if it was a medical referral that sent her to another state?
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We'll see if this pans out. I'm not ready to believe the girl exists.
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AOC is not done.
She is so determined to make it all about her.
KARMA?! AOC tweeting dramatically about being harassed on the Capitol steps after MOCKING Kavanaugh for being harassed BACKFIRES
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/07/14/karma-aoc-tweeting-dramatically-about-being-harassed-on-the-capitol-steps-after-mocking-kavanaugh-for-being-harassed-backfires/
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those conservatives won't stop trying to date her
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She's digging herself into quite a deep hypocrisy hole.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/14/aoc-calls-out-core-security-breakdowns-at-the-capitol-which-is-not-a-place-that-is-designed-to-protect-women/
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She's digging herself into quite a deep hypocrisy hole.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/14/aoc-calls-out-core-security-breakdowns-at-the-capitol-which-is-not-a-place-that-is-designed-to-protect-women/
'
I will never understand the pearl clutching over these protests. Republicans send people to protest me all the time, sometimes drunk and belligerent.
Nobody cares about it unless it’s a Republican in a restaurant. Can someone please explain the obsession because I don’t get it
— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) July 8, 2022
Has anyone seen any proof of this happening?
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She's digging herself into quite a deep hypocrisy hole.
Not sure how that matters. She can do whatever she wants at this point. Even if she loses her seat, she's set for life. She's queen of the breakfast tacos.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/14/aoc-calls-out-core-security-breakdowns-at-the-capitol-which-is-not-a-place-that-is-designed-to-protect-women/
Yeah, cuz all that security only benefits the men, somehow. Only wise Latinxses understand how, until she explains it to us.
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'
Has anyone seen any proof of this happening?
I don't doubt she spends a lot of time at bars and restaurants. Probably really enjoys herself. So, yeah, she probably encounters people who've been drinking, and decide to give her a piece of their minds.
What I find amusing is that she's accusing "them" of "sending" these people after her. =D Sure, doll.
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Ocasio-Cortez told reporters her office had to call Capitol Police five times “to get them to ask for this person’s information.”
“They and many of these people were sassing our office back, asking us why we want this information,” she said. “This is not about us having this information. This is about mitigating a threat. And, you know, we have to keep ourselves safe here because certain people will be safe, but not all of us are safe.”
Them cops are sassing her!
Also:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXLnm1TX0AAOZYr?format=jpg&name=small)
Yeah, sorry, if you want to be a public figure, be prepared for the public to take a picture if they see you in public. But somehow this is worse than showing up to someone's private property and home to assassinate them.
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https://www.youtube.com/c/AlexStein99/videos
Here is the youtube channel for Alex Stein who was "harassing" AOC. He is a pretty funny guy. A number of his older videos are him dressing up and trolling city council meetings.
This is the AOC video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R67tpqSjeE
He had some "Arts and Crafts" Antifa types protesting one of his comedy shows and he comes out and does a video with them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNncw0yHwPI
He was less polite with Adam Kinzinger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_NmMq1ojjA
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We'll see if this pans out. I'm not ready to believe the girl exists.
One of the lead stories on tonight's NBC network news: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/republicans-express-shock-10-year-old-can-get-pregnant-doubting-ohio-r-rcna38284
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It is possible. At both ends of the age range.
HOWEVER, is it likely?
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Of course some 10 year olds can get pregnant if they have sex. A buddy’s daughter hit menarche shortly after turning 9. Not unheard of, especially for obese girls, to hit that while still 8. Fortunately my older daughter didn’t hit menarche until 11, younger daughter is 9 and not even starting puberty yet so she’ll probably be 12-13.
What has lots of people on the right highly skeptical is that it was a little too convenient timing, and the arrest seems rather suspicious too. Ohio AG says they haven’t heard anything, then suddenly this guy is arrested and confessed the next day? I wouldn’t put it past the left to give the guy some money to sign the “confession” and promised him a quick deportation and no prison time here. I’m still skeptical the girl was ever pregnant, if she was even a real person.
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Whatever the reality of this particular 10 year old scenario, it has happened and it no doubt will happen again.
That said, the pro-abortionists are not concerned with the 10 year-olds (or victims of rape or incest) except as a means to a much broader end. Ohio claims that their laws would have allowed that girl to terminate her presidency already, and pro-abortionists are not arguing for exceptions for certain age ranges or edge-case situations anyway. Those are simply the mediagenic outliers they use to sell unrestricted, on-demand abortion.
If a pro-abortionist genuinely wants to discuss outlawing on-demand abortion with exceptions only for outlier cases then I'm willing to listen to their concerns about real or imaginary 10 year-olds, but otherwise I dismiss the sophistry as entirely irrelevant.
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I'm now officially confused as to what is going on with this story.
Report listed the rapist as a minor (17) and the girl's mother is saying "everything they say about [Gerson Flores] is a lie"
Ohio 10-year-old's alleged illegal immigrant rapist, 27, was listed as minor in abortionist’s report to state
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ohio-10-year-old-alleged-illegal-immigrant-rapist-27-listed-minor-abortionists-report-state
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Okay
The abortionist lied about the father, reported him as a 17 year old minor when he was actually 27.
For some reason I couldn't get that straight in my head. I blame lack of coffee at the time.
Appears she did it in an attempt to protect the father from rape charges.
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Is there any news yet as to how Mr. Flores got access to the little girl?
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Is there any news yet as to how Mr. Flores got access to the little girl?
Don't know about this case... but child rapists are usually "mom's boyfriend." [barf]
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And... the mom of the raped girl is defending the rapist.... no direct confirmation, but I bet I nailed it with "mom's boyfriend." ;/
She's from Guatemala.
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=63213
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Much of especially rural South America has, shall I say, different attitudes regarding sexual activity for girls post-menarche than we do. Girls are seen as fair game once they get their period.
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There used to be a quote that was reasonably accurate in which females that were "under 18 were protected by law and those over 70 were protected by age" but that isn't the case anymore. [barf]
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Women were traditionally protected by their fathers, and then their husbands.
This poor little girl apparently had no father around. And her mother brought her abuser into the home apparently.
Biological fathers commit much lower rates of abuse than "mom's boyfriend" or "stepdad."
Married women have much lower rates of rape than single women.
Faithful marriage and biological families, in general, are heathier than all alternatives devised.
Bastardry, divorce and fornication are the most destructive forces in the USA. (I do realize that some people have good reasons for divorce. Overall, I think the point is true however.)
Imagine what the USA would be like if we all grew up planning to marry, working to stay married, and have children that we care for. Imagine if wives were taught to respect and obey their husbands. Imagine if husbands were taught to love and care for their wives and children, and to be gentle with them. Imagine if men like this were given respect by the community as heads of their houses. Imagine if boys actually wanted to grow up and marry and care for a family.
Both for divorce rate and our bastardry rate are over 40% I believe. Who is paying for these kids? Who is modeling proper masculine behavior for the boys? Who is modeling proper feminine behavior for the girls?
I don't think what is wrong with the USA can be fixed by laws or leaders.
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Women were traditionally protected by their fathers, and then their husbands.
This poor little girl apparently had no father around. And her mother brought her abuser into the home apparently.
Biological fathers commit much lower rates of abuse than "mom's boyfriend" or "stepdad."
Married women have much lower rates of rape than single women.
Faithful marriage and biological families, in general, are heathier than all alternatives devised.
Bastardry, divorce and fornication are the most destructive forces in the USA. (I do realize that some people have good reasons for divorce. Overall, I think the point is true however.)
Imagine what the USA would be like if we all grew up planning to marry, working to stay married, and have children that we care for. Imagine if wives were taught to respect and obey their husbands. Imagine if husbands were taught to love and care for their wives and children, and to be gentle with them. Imagine if men like this were given respect by the community as heads of their houses. Imagine if boys actually wanted to grow up and marry and care for a family.
Both or divorce rate and our bastardry rate are over 40% I believe. Who is paying for these kids? Who is modeling proper masculine behavior for the boys? Who is modeling proper feminine behavior for the girls?
I don't think what is wrong with the USA can be fixed by laws or leaders.
This, obviously.
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AOC has been arrested for protesting at the SC. Though it appears that the handcuffs are magical. Also no mugshots or actual booking. Pretty much just escorted away from the area.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/19/watch-stunningly-brave-aoc-pretending-to-be-handcuffed-during-arrest-for-pro-abort-protest-outside-scotus-is-just-spectacular/
https://twitter.com/i/status/1549445391585878022
EDIT: Apparently Omar is claiming she was arrested too, and her staff are making statements that she was handcuffed, though video clearly show her pretending too. Yet this will be disseminated everywhere as fact, and Twitter's "disinformation" team will be nowhere to be found.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/19/watch-ilhan-omar-borrows-aocs-invisible-handcuffs-and-takes-herself-into-police-custody/
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I was just looking at youtube clips from the various MSM sites on this "arrest". It is astounding how many comments to the videos are saying that AOC, et al were all actually handcuffed. There has been some creative editing by sites like USA Today and ABC that cut the segments from behind showing them holding their own hands behind their backs, but the number of people falling for it and screaming at anyone who says it's not true is astounding. It's the covid mass formation psychosis that Dr Robert Malone was talking about being played out. And of course Malone was called a crackpot for suggesting something like that existed.
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I thought those leftist whackos were opposed to insurrection against a branch of government.
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More from AOC
She wasn't faking because she was faking :O ;/ :facepalm:
No faking here. Putting your hands behind your back is a best practice while detained, handcuffed or not, to avoid escalating charges like resisting arrest.
But given how you lied about a fellow rape survivor for “points,” as you put it to me, I don’t expect much else from you. pic.twitter.com/lUc1TPS21D
— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) July 20, 2022
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/20/aoc-defends-her-honor-gives-gop-rep-nancy-mace-a-totally-believable-explanation-as-to-why-she-was-wearing-fake-handcuffs/
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What's the own here? She said she was arrested, the PoPo said they arrested her. Is the lack of flexicuffs so damning?
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What's the own here? She said she was arrested, the PoPo said they arrested her. Is the lack of flexicuffs so damning?
It's the handcuff act part that is getting the attention because it's another example of a how a left wing pol can lie and have the MSM back them up in the lie.
She was trying to act like she was handcuffed
She said she was handcuffed
A bunch of MSM was and still is breathlessly reporting she was handcuffed.
Some outlets only showed video edited in such a way to make it appear she was actually handcuffed
Now she's trying to come up with excuses for lying about it now that she's been called out on it
This was another attempt to make everything about her
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What's the own here? She said she was arrested, the PoPo said they arrested her. Is the lack of flexicuffs so damning?
I guess if getting a citation is getting arrested, then she was arrested. I have apparently then been arrested as well for traffic violations in the past.
Lack of cuffs is damning when she's pretending that she WAS cuffed.
https://twitter.com/odonnell_r/status/1549549072868048896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1549800112662126594%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F07%2F20%2Fyou-should-take-aocs-arrest-paperwork-just-as-seriously-as-you-took-her-handcuffs-pic%2F
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I have not seen anything from her, the squad, or her people saying she was cuffed. I have seen breathless twitchy comments that "OMG She's not cuffed!". If you got a quote, I'd love to see it.
Methinks the Twitchy doth protest to much on this one.
There's no own here except that as a legislator she could have been trying to pass a law to address her concern rather than blocking traffic, which is an option not a lot of protesters have.
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I have not seen anything from her, the squad, or her people saying she was cuffed. I have seen breathless twitchy comments that "OMG She's not cuffed!". If you got a quote, I'd love to see it.
Methinks the Twitchy doth protest to much on this one.
There's no own here except that as a legislator she could have been trying to pass a law to address her concern rather than blocking traffic, which is an option not a lot of protesters have.
She's literally walking out in the "cuffed" pose.
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Side note:
While cruising AOC's Twitter to see if she claimed cuffedness (ick) I ran across this post from a couple weeks past:
https://twitter.com/RepAOC/status/1547694058436304897?s=20&t=5YrZYDdDVyzk5TCOKJvJQw
Wherein the squad of merrymakers urges Congress to pass some act stripping the Federal Courts, including SCOTUS, of jurisdiction over a variety of super-duper important rights. They claim that Article III gives Congress the right to limit the Federal Courts, and that seems to be backed up with things like the Judiciary Act and other laws.
My question for the legal minded: If you have a problem with a federal law, and the fed.courts have been stripped of jurisdiction by Congress, wouldn't that mean your State courts get to rule on it for your state? I can't imagine the balance of powers allows congress to just say "We did x, and it's not allowed to be reviewed by anyone".
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I have not seen anything from her, the squad, or her people saying she was cuffed. I have seen breathless twitchy comments that "OMG She's not cuffed!". If you got a quote, I'd love to see it.
I could be wrong on her claiming she was actually handcuffed but scanning headlines I did see the words handcuff or handcuffed on maybe sites like MSNBC, CNN, and I think BBCNews. I was actually trying to ignore the story at time so I didn't dig into them.
They may have since either moved on, edited or removed the stories since she been getting call out on it and been looking more and stupid because it. I haven't looked since.
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She's literally walking out in the "cuffed" pose.
At one point she raises her fist and then goes right back to the cuffed pose
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This is really much to about nothing, I just found her logic twist on why she was faking it amusing.
That was my first and I was hoping to be last post on the matter.
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I also have moved on. I am curious about that article III question I posted up there though. ^^
Anybody got any ideas?
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The "own" is that O-C, and especially Omar, seemed to be exaggerating what was happening to them. With O-C, that fits her pattern of declaring herself legally dead during the Capitol riot, ostentatiously weeping at the BP detention facility, etc. Omar, though, can't even use O-C's reasoning to defend herself, as she was walking alone.
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Following the logic of the left, they should have been executed for protesting on government property.
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The "own" is that O-C, and especially Omar, seemed to be exaggerating what was happening to them. With O-C, that fits her pattern of declaring herself legally dead during the Capitol riot, ostentatiously weeping at the BP detention facility, etc. Omar, though, can't even use O-C's reasoning to defend herself, as she was walking alone.
Yes, this is her modas operandi. Faking *expletive deleted*it and having the MSM sell it. Faked being handcuffed. Faked being in front of caged children (rather a fence to an empty parking lot). Faked being in danger on 06JAN. She sells it, the MSM promotes it, and people buy it. She faked being handcuffed for an agenda.
Social media is full of people right now absolutely believing and defending the statement that a congressman was arrested and handcuffed. The side that screams "disinformation" actively creates it. It's not something to move on from, it's something to call out at each occurrence.
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AOC Sits In Invisible Police Car Awaiting Transport To Invisible Jail
https://babylonbee.com/news/aoc-sits-in-invisible-police-car-awaiting-transport-to-invisible-jail
(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/62d7264ded15a62d7264ded15b.jpg)
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And they're not done
AOC Still Handcuffed As Capitol Police Misplaced The Invisible Key
https://babylonbee.com/news/aoc-still-handcuffed-as-capitol-police-misplaced-the-invisible-key
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I guess not only do her political opponents want to date her, they are into BDSM too.
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I can just imagine the noises from a spanking...
Hell, give Mad Mike the riding crop and we'll see what happens... He's a former brit - they know about that sort of stuff...
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Ilhan Omar Uses Her One Phone Call From Jail To Call Both Her Husband And Her Brother
https://babylonbee.com/news/ilhan-omar-uses-her-one-phone-call-from-jail-to-call-both-her-husband-and-her-brother
:rofl:
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Don't know about this case... but child rapists are usually "mom's boyfriend." [barf]
And... the mom of the raped girl is defending the rapist.... no direct confirmation, but I bet I nailed it with "mom's boyfriend." ;/
She's from Guatemala.
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=63213
Ding Ding Ding
In a follow-up Telemundo interview, a local source confirmed that Fuentes is the mother's domestic partner and that she is PREGNANT with the illegal alien's baby.https://t.co/ji1X7muej2
— Mia Cathell (@MiaCathell) July 21, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/07/21/heres-townhalls-investigation-into-the-exploitative-environment-surrounding-10-year-old-rape-victim/
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On the idea of having off-shore abortion ships, is the Left doing anything similar to this already? Like dispensing cannabis off-shore somewhere?
I'm not sure what else to compare it to, but then again, what else does the Right actually ban the the Left (or anyone else) from doing?
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CNN reporting Roberts was working to preserve RvW but the leak "doomed" it.
New CNN reporting from @JoanBiskupic: Chief Justice John Roberts privately lobbied his fellow conservative justices to preserve Roe v. Wade – but the unprecedented leak of the draft opinion may have doomed his efforts. pic.twitter.com/g0fKkIT14f
— New Day (@NewDay) July 26, 2022
Report: Supreme Court Leak Doomed Justice Roberts Plans to Preserve Roe
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2022/07/26/report-supreme-court-leak-doomed-justice-roberts-plans-to-preserve-roe-n2610804
Given the identity of the leaker still hasn't been identified, the report is raising suspicions.
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My suspicion is that he is just trying to play CYA with his more liberal friends by claiming that he was trying to get things changed "from the inside" or something like that.
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I guess it goes here.
Dems are introducing a bill for term limits for Justices.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3575349-democrats-introduce-bill-to-enact-term-limits-for-supreme-court-justices/
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to term limits, but this one is convoluted as all get out (and I think we know why). Make it a simple "20 years" or something.
Both parties do this crap, but dems do it more. They always look in the very near term to benefit themselves (just like, "lets pack the Supreme Court right now") then cry when the strategy works against them.
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Both parties do this crap, but dems do it more. They always look in the very near term to benefit themselves (just like, "lets pack the Supreme Court right now") then cry when the strategy works against them.
I think that it inherent to the progressive ideology. It is not one hampered by fixed rules or principles, and by definition seeks constant - often convenient - change.
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For some reason, I thought the Constitution established the lifetime appointments, but it does not appear to do that.
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https://hotair.com/headlines/2022/07/29/poll-americans-dismayed-at-end-of-roe-are-less-certain-they-will-vote-n486079
Those who reject the idea that the court’s ruling is a loss for women are 18 percentage points more likely to express certainty they will vote in the midterms — 70 percent compared with 52 percent of those who do see such a loss, according to the Post-Schar School poll conducted July 22 to 24.
Democrats and women, especially younger women, are particularly uncertain they will vote. About 1 in 3 women under 40 are sure they will cast a ballot even as they have strong concerns about rollbacks in abortion access.
“Is the discontent with Democratic Party leadership and policies generally so deep that those most affected by the court decision … still plan to sit out this election?” said Mark Rozell, dean of the Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University, who worked on the poll.
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For some reason, I thought the Constitution established the lifetime appointments, but it does not appear to do that.
Article 3 Section 1 says all federal judges “shall hold their Offices during good Behavior”. Which has long been interpreted to mean lifetime appointments unless the retire, resign or are impeached.
While there’s no express lifetime tenure, it would be very interesting to see how this would shake out if Congress tried to enact some form of term limitations on SCOTUS justices. Plenty of influential people that say term limits would require a constitutional amendment.
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Huh. It appears Idaho is going to be the test bed poster child for the SC ruling.
It's been interesting to note that maybe 100 residents ever show up for pro-abortion rallies at the state capitol. There is way more out of state influence on the pro-abortion side. Pro-life seems to run around the same 70% of the state population that votes other than "D". I guess we'll see if special interest groups from out of state (as well as the feds) negate what the majority of state residents want.
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/3609839-how-idaho-became-ground-zero-in-the-federal-state-abortion-fight/
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Do you happen to have a link to what Idaho's law actually says? Because:
an Idaho law preventing women from receiving necessary emergency care when their lives are threatened by dangerous pregnancy complications.
...
A doctor can be prosecuted, even if an abortion procedure was essential to save the life of the emergency room patient.
Seems unlikely.
I also wonder what the breakdown among Idaho's "Pro-Life" folks is between the "No abortion after fertilization" folks and the "lets make a determination sometime near the first trimester that abortion is no longer OK" people. Because while the national conversation (if it could be called that) seems to be between the "no abortion after fertilization" people and the "I can do what I want to the kid until it takes a breath of delivery room air" people, folks I talk to in real life all seem to be a little more nuanced than those two extremes.
I know Idaho has a pretty solid LDS contingent so that probably affects the distribution of opinions.
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Do you happen to have a link to what Idaho's law actually says? Because:
Seems unlikely.
I also wonder what the breakdown among Idaho's "Pro-Life" folks is between the "No abortion after fertilization" folks and the "lets make a determination sometime near the first trimester that abortion is no longer OK" people. Because while the national conversation (if it could be called that) seems to be between the "no abortion after fertilization" people and the "I can do what I want to the kid until it takes a breath of delivery room air" people, folks I talk to in real life all seem to be a little more nuanced than those two extremes.
I know Idaho has a pretty solid LDS contingent so that probably affects the distribution of opinions.
I don't have a link handy, but I know there are exceptions for health of the mother. The MSM, and the Federal lawsuit for that matter, are making a lot of *expletive deleted*it up.
As for popular opinion, I would guess that just as before the pro abort people went crazy with the "abortion celebration" stuff, there were a lot of people here that were somewhat "don't ask don't tell" with first trimester abortions, and probably still are, but if they have to choose between strictly limited abortions and abortions for convenience and fun, they are choosing the former.
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Possibly not the most even-handed article.
All the bills were poorly drafted, thrown into the legislative hopper for the purpose of intimidating doctors and gaining votes. They were rushed through with little medical testimony. As with similar measures enacted in other red states, practically no consideration was given to the serious problems that arise for doctors, lawyers and the courts from the use of sloppy, ambiguous wording.
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"... thrown into the legislative hopper for the purpose of intimidating ... and gaining votes."
"... the use of sloppy, ambiguous wording."
... like most gun-control laws.
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Colorado baseball team cancels family night at a game after thousands of tickets sold over the sponsors of the event being Pro-Life
The Vibes made this decision after seeing the proposed assets from the partner in question because they felt that the partner would hinder the team’s mission in providing fun and affordable family entertainment.
Not clear on whether it was solely because the sponsors were pro-life or that the sponsors had planned some sort of pro-life event.
Baseball team shuts out pro-life organizations, cancels family night hours before first pitch
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/baseball-team-shuts-out-pro-life-organizations-cancels-family-night-hours-before-first-pitch
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Colorado baseball team cancels family night at a game after thousands of tickets sold over the sponsors of the event being Pro-Life
Not clear on whether it was solely because the sponsors were pro-life or that the sponsors had planned some sort of pro-life event.
Baseball team shuts out pro-life organizations, cancels family night hours before first pitch
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/baseball-team-shuts-out-pro-life-organizations-cancels-family-night-hours-before-first-pitch
Professional sports are an appendage of GAE. I refuse to support them or even pay attention to them in passing. Everything is political to GAE and everything must serve the purposes of the state.
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I tend to also not care or support professional sports. Less for Ron's reasons nd more because it really seems like pro sports players are likely to be criminals and abuse women, so no thanks.
That said, to make an informed decision on this particular subject, I'd need to know what "assets" Save the Storks and Pikes Place Citizens for Life were planning on displaying at family night.
Realistically neither side of the abortion debate really needs to horn into family night at a semi pro baseball game. The Vibes probably should never have accepted the money from the pro-life .orgs.
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Granulomatous Amebic Encephalomyelitis?
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Granulomatous Amebic Encephalomyelitis?
I am guessing Global ________ Elite?
Must be a secret acronym from the anti-govt forum on 4chan that hasn't filtered out. Some acronyms are nice, but I generally think they hurt communication.
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I tend to also not care or support professional sports. Less for Ron's reasons nd more because it really seems like pro sports players are likely to be criminals and abuse women, so no thanks.
That said, to make an informed decision on this particular subject, I'd need to know what "assets" Save the Storks and Pikes Place Citizens for Life were planning on displaying at family night.
Realistically neither side of the abortion debate really needs to horn into family night at a semi pro baseball game. The Vibes probably should never have accepted the money from the pro-life .orgs.
The article doesn't explain what they mean by "assets" and why they couldn't just not allow whatever it is in the park.
From before the cancellation I assume. Doesn't sound like anything terrible. However, that doesn't sound like anything that could be planned without the ballpark management being fully involved. Sounds like someone with authority stepped in at the last minute.
https://www.ppcitizensforlife.org/life-at-the-ballpark/
August 24, 2022
By Matt Niedzielski
In case you missed it in our August newsletter, Pikes Peak Citizens for Life and Save the Storks will be sponsoring the Vibes ballgame on Friday August 26.
There will be a special presentation by Matt Hammitt and his 11-year old son Bowen in a concert after the game along with fireworks and pro-life giveaways.
You can learn more about the game in the August newsletter (pages 1 and 4) and access a link for buying tickets (page 4). Of course you can also get tickets at the stadium on the day of the game.
We’ll see you at the ballpark!
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Family Night with Christian singer Matt Hammitt over pro-life partners
https://www.christianpost.com/news/colorado-baseball-team-cancels-pro-life-event-with-matt-hammitt.html
The Rocky Mountain Vibes, an independent baseball team in Colorado, canceled its Family Night event where award-winning Christian singer Matt Hammitt was scheduled to sing along with his son, Bowen, due to objections to two pro-life organizations partnering on the event.
In an emailed response to The Christian Post, the group Save the Storks, which identifies as pro-family and pro-women, said they were informed that the Rocky Mountain Vibes had "received concerns from their biggest sponsor and threats from several sponsors that they’d pull their contracts if they went through with the event."
The team added, “Any statement placing blame on any outside party for cancellation of tonight’s events is inaccurate. The Vibes made this decision internally and stand by their choice.”
I find it hard to believe they weren't aware of the group for the several months this was on the schedule and weren't fully aware of what they were planning. Doesn't sound like a good PR move for a local low-level baseball stadium. The cancellation seems to be getting more notice than just letting it go ahead.
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The VIBES? What a ghey, candy ass name
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Cali will not pay for your abortion but pay your travel fees from pro-life states.
California Preparing to Fund Travel for Abortions
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/madelineleesman/2022/08/29/california-preparing-to-fund-out-of-state-abortions-n2612362
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Professional sports are an appendage of GAE. I refuse to support them or even pay attention to them in passing. Everything is political to GAE and everything must serve the purposes of the state.
GAE?? google offers nothing, whats it mean??
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GAE?? google offers nothing, whats it mean??
Global American Empire, pronounced gay
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Global American Empire, pronounced gay
I wouldn't call it an American empire.
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I wouldn't call it an American empire.
I can understand your position. The word has been converged though. The American nation is dead or at very best in hospice.
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I could just call it the Empire of Villainous Lies, EVL for short.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcVARekX0AEzRh3?format=png&name=small)
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I guess my state is back in the national news, with, of course, biased reporting by the MSM (as seen by the linked AP story). Basically, the general counsel for University of Idaho said that university instructors and staff can't talk about abortion one way or another, nor can they refer students to abortion providers or provide them birth control in order to meet state law guidelines.
These aren't 14 year old kids. These are all adult students attending a university. One would think that their brains are developed enough to pursue things on their own. The university won't provide birth control, but the drug store next door will. So will their private health care provider.
The White House press secretary is running with this, stating that it is the beginning of "national bans on birth control" when of course, it's just the state not talking about abortion and birth control one way or another.
https://www.kivitv.com/news/idaho-universities-disallow-abortion-contraception-referral
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When I was in school (some time ago) a lot of students relied on the school clinic for their healthcare needs. There was some version of Health Insurance that was run by the school. If that kind of thing is no longer prescribing birth control those students could be up a creek, as they may not have private insurance.
If your goal is to limit abortions, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just put a birth control and condom vending machine in every dorm.
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The White House press secretary is running with this, stating that it is the beginning of "national bans on birth control" when of course, it's just the state not talking about abortion and birth control one way or another.
Various left articles screaming that and that women will also loose the right to vote, be forced to adhere to a dress code (the Handmaid's Tale BS), be forced to stay home.. etc... if the dems lose in Nov.
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If your goal is to limit abortions, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just put a birth control and condom vending machine in every dorm.
That sounds like a great business opportunity, but ...
If that kind of thing is no longer prescribing birth control those students could be up a creek, as they may not have private insurance.
Up a creek? Really? As in the only viable options a college student has to avoid pregnancy and STDs are prescribed and insurance-covered hormonal birth control? :O
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Up a creek? Really? As in the only viable options a college student has to avoid pregnancy and STDs are prescribed and insurance-covered hormonal birth control? :O
I mean, I guess there are a lot of things my tax dollars go to that I hate, and in the greater scheme of things, if gov funded birth control vending machines helps stop convenience abortions, I'm not really opposed.
However from some quick googling, the average cost for uninsured female birth control is $250/yr. Condoms cost $.050/ea. It seems like college kids who can spend $1000/mo on drugs, liquor, and Netflix, could set aside some money for birth control.
For all the twentysomethings that scream about breeders and that no one should be having kids, the googling indicated that female surgical sterilization is a surprisingly (to me) affordable $250. Vasectomies seem to run around $1000 average.
https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/birth-control/annual-cost-of-birth-control
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You don’t need insurance to get birth control you can do it on an app, or by telephone for dirt cheap (it’s how my wife gets hers). Like $15/month.
So all the “oh well they won’t be able to get birth control” well that’s a load of steaming *expletive deleted*it.
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the googling indicated that female surgical sterilization is a surprisingly (to me) affordable $250. Vasectomies seem to run around $1000 average.
https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/birth-control/annual-cost-of-birth-control
Your source is bullshit. No way a tubal is 1/4 the cost of a vasectomy. My wife had that done 9 years ago. It involved a hospital operating room, and general anesthesia. They did it laparoscopically, so there’s the use of that equipment too.
Since her tubal failed I’m probably going to get a vasectomy. Those are done in a doctors office under local anesthesia, and doesn’t require equipment like a laparoscope.
I’d believe a vasectomy is $1000. But a tubal would be more like $25,000 (even if done in conjunction with a cesarean section they’d be more like $2500).
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I mean, I guess there are a lot of things my tax dollars go to that I hate, and in the greater scheme of things, if gov funded birth control vending machines helps stop convenience abortions, I'm not really opposed.
Same here, I am simply not at all convinced by the implication that the only reasonable way an adult can be expected to prevent pregnancy is to be handed birth control on a silver platter.
I'd note that regardless of the use of hormonal birth control, someone sleeping around at college should probably be using condoms. Or maybe uninsured STD treatment is cheap enough these days that they don't even need to bother.
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Your source is bullshit. No way a tubal is 1/4 the cost of a vasectomy. My wife had that done 9 years ago. It involved a hospital operating room, and general anesthesia. They did it laparoscopically, so there’s the use of that equipment too.
Since her tubal failed I’m probably going to get a vasectomy. Those are done in a doctors office under local anesthesia, and doesn’t require equipment like a laparoscope.
I’d believe a vasectomy is $1000. But a tubal would be more like $25,000 (even if done in conjunction with a cesarean section they’d be more like $2500).
And it can be hard to find a doc that will do the surgical sterilization procedure on a woman who hasn’t had kids yet.
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Same here, I am simply not at all convinced by the implication that the only reasonable way an adult can be expected to prevent pregnancy is to be handed birth control on a silver platter.
I'd note that regardless of the use of hormonal birth control, someone sleeping around at college should probably be using condoms. Or maybe uninsured STD treatment is cheap enough these days that they don't even need to bother.
Many of them are so *expletive deleted*ing stupid they don’t care. Why do you think every other commercial on TV is for an HIV treatment or a Herpes treatment nowadays.
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And it can be hard to find a doc that will do the surgical sterilization procedure on a woman who hasn’t had kids yet.
Somethings don't change. 37 years ago when I was in the Navy, you had to be 25 years old AND have had 2 kids to get a vasectomy. When out 2nd spawn arrived my wife had to really argue with her Dr. to get a tubal ligation because she was so young.
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Your source is bullshit.
Well, I did say I was surprised at the price. :laugh:
On the other hand, lefty fed and state politicians do seem to promote "everything costs more if you're a woman", so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see female sterilization subsidized like it's a solar installation while men have to pay the full price. =)
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Could be the university is trying to make Idaho's law into the Don't Say Abortion law. "Look at what they're making us do!"
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That sounds like a great business opportunity, but ...Up a creek? Really? As in the only viable options a college student has to avoid pregnancy and STDs are prescribed and insurance-covered hormonal birth control? :O
Up a creek in relation to Ben's comment that I was replying to. Maybe I should have quoted it. He said if the University won't give them birth control...their private insurance would. If the University is their insurance they would be up a creek.
Do you still need a prescription for the pill? I honestly don't even know.
I guess we could discuss how critical a situation described by "up a creek" is. You can always step out of a creek. It's not like it's a river. :laugh:
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Up a creek in relation to Ben's comment that I was replying to. Maybe I should have quoted it. He said if the University won't give them birth control...their private insurance would. If the University is their insurance they would be up a creek.
I understood the context, but even in your worst case scenario it seems like there are a multitude of entirely achievable alternatives available.
I guess we could discuss how critical a situation described by "up a creek" is. You can always step out of a creek. It's not like it's a river. :laugh:
I assumed it was a more polite reference to the old saying "up *expletive deleted*it creek without a paddle", which I associate with a more significant problem as opposed to a minor inconvenience.
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Do you still need a prescription for the pill? I honestly don't even know.
You do still need a script for birth control pills. The FDA has been pondering eliminating this requirement for many years now but has not acted upon it. The original intent behind requiring a script was to ensure that women were seen at least once per year for medical care to renew the script. Cynics argue that the real intent was to ensure that you were able to bill for an appointment at least once per year.
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I assumed it was a more polite reference to the old saying "up *expletive deleted*it creek without a paddle", which I associate with a more significant problem as opposed to a minor inconvenience.
I always thought the original saying was just "up a creek without a paddle," and the scatological element came later. But I could be wrong.
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And it can be hard to find a doc that will do the surgical sterilization procedure on a woman who hasn’t had kids yet.
Unless she wants to pretend to be a man.
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I always thought the original saying was just "up a creek without a paddle," and the scatological element came later. But I could be wrong.
The saying doesn't really make sense (scatological or not) because if you are *up* a creek w/o a paddle you can just drift down. Unless it's about trying to navigate upstream and that part just got lost.
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The saying doesn't really make sense (scatological or not) because if you are *up* a creek w/o a paddle you can just drift down. Unless it's about trying to navigate upstream and that part just got lost.
Hey, buddy, I don't make the rules.
Or the old saws.
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Democrat Man to the rescue. https://youtu.be/bADC8t5PhmY
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It appears that the Women's March is pro "I had an abortion! It was fun and it's time to party!"
At least it seems they got as much pro-choice pushback as they did pro-life pushback.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/09/30/i-kill-babies-hear-me-roar-womens-march-claims-theyre-unapologetically-pro-abortion-and-piss-off-pro-choice-more-than-pro-life/
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It appears that the Women's March is pro "I had an abortion! It was fun and it's time to party!"
At least it seems they got as much pro-choice pushback as they did pro-life pushback.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/09/30/i-kill-babies-hear-me-roar-womens-march-claims-theyre-unapologetically-pro-abortion-and-piss-off-pro-choice-more-than-pro-life/
Moloch has a wonderful plan for your life!
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Dems: Banning abortion is racist
Also Dems: Abortion is racist
While speaking to PBS’ Firing Line with Margaret Hoover, Bush said that at 19 she went into a clinic to have an abortion done, (not her first one) and after telling nurses that she wasn’t ready, Bush says that she was forced to have the procedure done against her will.
Because she's black
Cori Bush Claims Her Abortion Was the Result of Being Black
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/10/08/cori-bush-claims-her-abortion-was-the-result-of-being-black-n2614167
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She told the nurse she wasn't ready yet- probably wanted to wait until the 8th month to have it done.
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This flew under my radar until today: Montana voted "no" on an amendment that would require doctors to care for all living, breathing babies, including those that lived through an attempted abortion. Not stopping abortion, but if the baby lives, no requirement for medical care.
In MONTANA. That Yellowstone show must have upped the Bozeman population by 500,000 lefties or something. I would not have expected Montana to take such extreme views. From what I read, the wording of the bill, or how it was explained on the voter pamphlets, was potentially confusing, but still, do your due diligence before voting.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/montana-shamed-residents-vote-no-measure-protect-babies-after-theyre-born-unimaginable
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What is the moral difference between killing a baby in the womb with poison, forcepts etc, or abandoning her to die should that fail? Or cutting her throat after the failed abortion, for that matter.
There is literally no moral difference at all. It appears the people of Montana realize that, and 52% of them have voted their monstrous values accordingly.
America has become a morally revolting place.
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An argument that the Dobbs backlash theory of the midterms does not bear up:
https://thefederalist.com/2022/11/10/contra-conventional-wisdom-there-is-little-evidence-dobbs-hurt-republicans/
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What is the moral difference between killing a baby in the womb with poison, forcepts etc, or abandoning her to die should that fail? Or cutting her throat after the failed abortion, for that matter.
There is literally no moral difference at all. It appears the people of Montana realize that, and 52% of them have voted their monstrous values accordingly.
America has become a morally revolting place.
Or smothering the baby to death a month (or year) later because Mom just doesn't like her. :mad:
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Or smothering the baby to death a month (or year) later because Mom just doesn't like her. :mad:
In Canada, when a mother kills her baby under one year of age, it is "infanticide" not murder. And infanticide is never punished with jail time there.
In the USA, there was a pol in one of the states recently trying to pass a law to make it illegal for police to investigate the death of a baby who died at or around the time of birth. I don't know if the law passed.