Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: gunsmith on August 06, 2022, 11:42:25 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCu4G_ZkBI0
the fight was over quick, around 30 seconds in, the robber realizes his wounds could be or are fatal.
I have not been able to find out if the robber lived, but the way the clerk was dragging him and his inability to get up off the floor indicates a fatality.
the robbers seemed to be high school kids expecting the clerk to just cooperate.
"no honor among thieves" the other robbers didn't try to rescue or help their partner - I thought it was two but there was a door guy too.
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News report of same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD7puHMoeVM
"A" grade for the clerk.
"F" grade for the newswoman who offered victimization acceptance advice she apparently got from the police.
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New 1st link:
https://twitter.com/AsianDawn4/status/1555597994736594944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1555597994736594944%7Ctwgr%5E063bea2a3c1c341e7d4e2e7b8c3fc4458715a9e8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nevadashooters.com%2Fthreads%2Fvegas-smoke-shop-owner-turns-robber-into-a-fountain.171350%2F
https://snbc13.com/ian-miles-cheong-1-dead-robbery-stabbing-at-asian-smoke-shop-in-las-vegas/
https://www.fox5vegas.com/2022/08/06/las-vegas-smoke-shop-owner-fights-back-stabs-robber/
https://ktla.com/news/watch-las-vegas-shop-owner-stabs-would-be-thief-multiple-times/
As of now the "department" is saying it is self defense but the guy is doing interviews on TV (at least one) without a lawyer. He needs to be very quiet and get a lawyer IMO.
I don't believe the guy getting stabbed is dead but the way he kind of rag dolled he may have a spinal cord injury.
bob
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Correct on dummying up. Let the tapes speak.
That first link "Does not exist," and in my normally suspicious (paranoid) nature, I wonder if something non-PC has been cleansed.
"Oh, we can't have them seeing that."
What was on it?
And I wonder it the knife was registered and if he had a permit for it.
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Correct on dummying up. Let the tapes speak.
That first link "Does not exist," and in my normally suspicious (paranoid) nature, I wonder if something non-PC has been cleansed.
"Oh, we can't have them seeing that."
What was on it?
And I wonder it the knife was registered and if he had a permit for it.
Pretty much the same as all of the other videos. I removed it from the post and put in one I hope works.
bob
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The clerk is another awesome example of self defense. He looks trained. He let the scumbags take things without interfering, and only acted once the counter was jumped. I suppose in NYC he would still be arrested for attempted murder, but anywhere else, including Vegas, he'd better get a damn medal.
The only way all this damn increased crime stops is if more people face the consequences of their actions that this scumbag did. Legal repercussions mean zero anymore, because they are just a slap on the hand, if that. The hospital or the cemetery are better lessons.
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The clerk is another awesome example of self defense. He looks trained. He let the scumbags take things without interfering, and only acted once the counter was jumped. I suppose in NYC he would still be arrested for attempted murder, but anywhere else, including Vegas, he'd better get a damn medal.
The only way all this damn increased crime stops is if more people face the consequences of their actions that this scumbag did. Legal repercussions mean zero anymore, because they are just a slap on the hand, if that. The hospital or the cemetery are better lessons.
When you watch the video pay attention to the way the the clerk strikes move to different parts of the body. His left hand directs the body to move in an away direction. Also it was the last stab to the center back of the counter jumper when he went limp, that is why I think there may be some spinal cord involvement. Pretty much the way you want to stab people if you have to resort to that. The clerk has said he will look into other methods of self defense to protect himself and the store.
bob
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yup, clerk should clam up, say nothing to unfriendly media.
if kid lives, yeah, could be serious spinal injury .
I hope they catch the others
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Where did he get the knife?
And... I have a LOT of Vietnamese in my neighborhood... Good people.
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Okay - looks like it was a fairly large folder. Possibly switchblade or assisted opening...
Time to go look at longer Kershaws... My EDC is closer to a skinning profile than a toothpick profile...
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Okay - looks like it was a fairly large folder. Possibly switchblade or assisted opening...
Time to go look at longer Kershaws... My EDC is closer to a skinning profile than a toothpick profile...
Look at this video. He had the knife on the side of the cash register (about the 20 second mark). It looks like a folder. Not really much more than most EDC types.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfJQFHGrBwI
bob
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Because of VA/Govt property rules, I keep my pocket knife blades < 3"
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I noticed his right hand hanging around next to the register in that reddish light. I thought it was clear he actually picked up the knife just as the scum jumped over the counter.
Re-watching it, it gave me the impression he was manipulating the knife in there before the jump-over.
As far as I'm concerned, that jump over the counter was the equivalent of a home invasion.
Terry
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Well, all I've got to say is that was very one-sided fight.
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Never bring a spinal cord to a knife fight.
OK, OK, that was awful. =(
Well, all I've got to say is that was very one-sided fight.
I would call it preemptive self defense. If somebody's willing to jump over the counter, one must assume he's willing to do other things which threaten severe bodily damage or death. I've likened it in an earlier post to a home invasion. I agree he deserves a medal.
I wonder if that "I'm dead, I'm dead" was a result of the tingling sensation when a nerve is cut. I agree he seemed to go limp.
Any updates on the counter-jumper's condition?
If he survives in a disabled condition, I hope he makes a bundle of money lecturing about the stupidity of going along with the criminal intent of your "friends" and to learn to separate yourself from such influences and dumb *expletive deleted*ing peer pressure.
That's what I hope.
Terry, 230RN
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I applaud the store owner's cleansing of the gene pool, but I hope "the department" doesn't take a close look at that video. It appeared to me that the robber who jumped the counter was going for a grab of some product on the shelves, not posing an immediate threat to the owner. The robber was not (that I could see) displaying any weapons. I hope that won't be a problem in Las Vegas, but I'm sure in New York or many other, more woke cities, the store owner would have been arrested and charged.
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I applaud the store owner's cleansing of the gene pool, but I hope "the department" doesn't take a close look at that video.
You can assume that anything you can see online has been viewed by the entire department.
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You can assume that anything you can see online has been viewed by the entire department.
I am quite certain of that. But that doesn't tell us how closely they looked at it, or what they were looking for when they viewed it.
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Hawkmoon remarked,
"It appeared to me that the robber who jumped the counter was going for a grab of some product on the shelves, not posing an immediate threat to the owner. "
Key here: "It appeared to me" sitting at my desk watching the video with a cup of coffee and able to back up and watch it again and again.
I still say, that counter-jumping was the equivalent of a home invasion and introduced reasonable fear of..."
And you didn't have three toughs in ski masks in your living room.
You can pickety nickety all you want, I can not think of anything but justifiable defense on the part of the storekeeper to stop the threat, and to make multiple thrusts with a knife.
Sort of like the double-taps taught in firearms defense use.
And the advice of the PD is plain obligatory boiler plate bulla cheeta. Remember the principle: "Leave no witnesses, dead people can't testify."
That advice by the PD only encourages similar activities in future by similar scumbags.
So there. I said it and I ain't takin' it back.
Terry, 230RN
PS. You will also notice the guy who went around to the right side in what might be considered an attempt to surround the victim. SOP.
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I would call it preemptive self defense.
Oh, it is self defense. No critism of the stabber. I was just trying to say the robber was pretty pathetic here.
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oh, I am willing to bet some transbinary tennis shoe sniffer down in Vegas P.D/prosecutors office ( who did such a stellar job losing Paddock's hard drive in the Vegas country music massacre )
Wanted to charge the store owner with something.
it is clear that the robber is a dumb kid camouflaged as a serious threat, he only managed to throw one punch and gave up pretty quickly.
The neck/spinal cord severing was a coup de tat , unnecessary, he really already won the fight .
Unlikely a NV jury would convict though, Wayne Burgarello up here in Sparks NV, owned an empty derelict looking house.
Crack heads used it as a place to smoke and sleep . Wayne Burgarello got tired of the mess and walked in on a couple sleeping on the floor and opened fire. the couple was no threat at all, sleeping.
They prosecuted him, he prevailed .
The rest of the state considers Vegas to be L.A east, a lost cause, it's totally blue and very corrupt ( it is clear that the local sheriff stole the gubernatorial primary from a real populist conservative )
Jumping over the counter sealed the kids fate.
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Active Self Protection weighs in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Puk9Jv0-Gk
Apparently the clerk/shop-owner did an "ask me anything" on Reddit about the incident. :facepalm:
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It looks to me like he did everything exactly right during the incident. It's a 90-second master class in self defense. I wonder if he has military H2H combat training, or maybe martial arts training. He *really* needs to shut up now. Maybe he can run his mouth after a grand jury no-bills him, but IMHO not until then.
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It looks to me like he did everything exactly right during the incident. It's a 90-second master class in self defense. I wonder if he has military H2H combat training, or maybe martial arts training. He *really* needs to shut up now. Maybe he can run his mouth after a grand jury no-bills him, but IMHO not until then.
Locally it is being said that he has said he has had no training other than playing video games. No military or other training. He did an ask me anything on Reddit about this. While his SD instincts may be good his after action behavior tells me he is somewhat naive.
bob
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Active Self Protection weighs in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Puk9Jv0-Gk
Apparently the clerk/shop-owner did an "ask me anything" on Reddit about the incident. :facepalm:
Looks like John Correia agrees with me about the shop owner's use of deadly force.
For the shop owner's sake, I hope the DA doesn't push it.
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Locally it is being said that he has said he has had no training other than playing video games. No military or other training. He did an ask me anything on Reddit about this. While his SD instincts may be good his after action behavior tells me he is somewhat naive.
bob
I'm really surprised at the "no training". He moved like someone who trains. He's apparently in his early 20s, so the after action stuff is not as surprising. I hope he gets advice from someone he trusts to stop talking, because:
https://youtu.be/GjgGWOpksEw?t=43
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Okay - looks like it was a fairly large folder. Possibly switchblade or assisted opening...
Time to go look at longer Kershaws... My EDC is closer to a skinning profile than a toothpick profile...
If stabbing is what you have in mind then IMO nothing beats my EDC, a CRKT Hissatsu folder.
https://www.crkt.com/hissatsu-folder.html
It came rather stiff, as usual, but a drop of lube and repeated manipulation loosened it up well enough.
As for the defender, I read that he attributed his acumen to his experience in League of Legends (a video game), which of course adds credence to everyone here saying he needs to STFO.
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Active Self Protection weighs in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Puk9Jv0-Gk
Apparently the clerk/shop-owner did an "ask me anything" on Reddit about the incident. :facepalm:
The reddit stuff aside, there's a lot in that video I don't agree with, like, "show them the knife." There is no way I'm "showing a knife" to try and ward someone off. It might have the opposite effect. Using the pepper spray I could understand.
Lots of hindsight here. We can slow motion and still frame the video to death, but we weren't there. I'm not sure how the store owner "put himself in this situation." He's not the one who jumped the counter within a distance that I would consider personal space. The only people who "put themselves in a situation" are the criminals. Had they not entered the store with ill intent, none of this would have happened. The store owner gets LOTS of leeway from me. I hope he gets lots of leeway from the government as well.
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The reddit stuff aside, there's a lot in that video I don't agree with, like, "show them the knife." There is no way I'm "showing a knife" to try and ward someone off. It might have the opposite effect. Using the pepper spray I could understand.
Lots of hindsight here. We can slow motion and still frame the video to death, but we weren't there. I'm not sure how the store owner "put himself in this situation." He's not the one who jumped the counter within a distance that I would consider personal space. The only people who "put themselves in a situation" are the criminals. Had they not entered the store with ill intent, none of this would have happened. The store owner gets LOTS of leeway from me. I hope he gets lots of leeway from the government as well.
yeah John at ASP gets odd sometimes, he is always saying criminals do not follow a moral code like "good,sane,moral" folks like you guys .
( well, like most of us hahahahah ) yet in this case, he doesn't get that the robbers lit the fuse and reaped what they sowed.
the whole thing is like a Beavis and Butthead rob a store cartoon , counter jumping kid even calls his friend "jacob" LOL...if he survives he will regret this forever....
store owner is pretty dumb, I never even been on reddit once - if I were in his shoes I might talk to APS about it, would never ask the internet anything
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From what little I can tell the robber lived.
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Oh, and... No slicing... Just stabby punching...
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store owner is pretty dumb, I never even been on reddit once - if I were in his shoes I might talk to APS about it, would never ask the internet anything
If anyone here is ever in a (potentially) lethal self-defense situation they better not say anything other than maybe “[link] FYI, that was me.” Even on the not so public side. At least until after they get no-billed.
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As previously said, the clerk should never have opened his pie hole to the media. I'll also say that the video shouldn't have been made available to ANYONE before HIS lawyer reviewed it carefully.
Assuming the clerk is no-billed (AS HE SHOULD BE!!) he may still face a civil lawsuit for hurting the robber . . . that's the kind of insane society we live in today. =(
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I noticed his right hand hanging around next to the register in that reddish light. I thought it was clear he actually picked up the knife just as the scum jumped over the counter.
Re-watching it, it gave me the impression he was manipulating the knife in there before the jump-over.
As far as I'm concerned, that jump over the counter was the equivalent of a home invasion.
Terry
But I'll never be allowed on that jury because I've already reached a conclusion: justifiable self defense. But there might be a grand jury hearing by the DA just to establish this.
And remember: dead witnesses to your crime can't testify against you. I would also say that guy drifting to the right exhibited predatory pack behavior: surround your prey.
Terry, 230RN
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A little more info on the incident (as of August 10th):
https://www.8newsnow.com/i-team/i-team-teens-in-smoke-shop-robbery-were-on-gps-monitoring/
Three suspects arrested. Mr. Pin Cushion is still in the hospital. All three of the suspects are juveniles and each has a criminal history predating the robbery. Two of them were on GPS monitoring at the time of the robbery (so that's basically useless). Police are still investigating the incident.
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All three of the suspects are juveniles and each has a criminal history predating the robbery. Two of them were on GPS monitoring at the time of the robbery (so that's basically useless). Police are still investigating the incident.
Apparently a judge agrees. From the link:
Clark County District Court Judge Sunny Bailey demanded answers as hearings took place for the teens Wednesday. “…the court expects probation to appear to explain to this court how two co-defendants on a GPS managed to not have their units and their alarms off and not be picked up in violation of their GPS when this offense occurred,” Bailey said.
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A little more info on the incident (as of August 10th):
https://www.8newsnow.com/i-team/i-team-teens-in-smoke-shop-robbery-were-on-gps-monitoring/
Three suspects arrested. Mr. Pin Cushion is still in the hospital. All three of the suspects are juveniles and each has a criminal history predating the robbery. Two of them were on GPS monitoring at the time of the robbery (so that's basically useless). Police are still investigating the incident.
This is my shocked face...
But the yute who was stabbed? He was turning his life around!
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Some of the scuttlebutt going around a local site is Metro/DA may be looking at someway to charge the guy with something because they still haven't said anything (officially) about it being a case of self defense. The pincushioned ute is still hospitalized which makes me believe that stab between the shoulder blades did some spinal cord damage.
bob
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Some of the scuttlebutt going around a local site is Metro/DA may be looking at someway to charge the guy with something because they still haven't said anything (officially) about it being a case of self defense. The pincushioned ute is still hospitalized which makes me believe that stab between the shoulder blades did some spinal cord damage.
bob
I thought acupuncture was a healthy alternative to traditional therapeutics!
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I thought acupuncture was a healthy alternative to traditional therapeutics!
LOL. It's the jab that prevents recidivism. Not brought to you by Pfizer.
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LOL. It's the jab that prevents recidivism. Not brought to you by Pfizer.
Sounds like he won’t be jumping any more counters.
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One of the utes is headed to a ute work camp where he can gain more knowledge on how to manipulate the system when he continues to be a hoodlum.
Another ute is headed to a juvenile correctional facility where he will be called a resident and learn even more than his friend that gets to go to camp.
Ute number 3 is probably just hoping for the day he can poop without someone shoving a suppository up his rectum (the stabber definitely recthim) and doing digital stimulation.
It is a shame, they were such good utes.
https://www.8newsnow.com/news/local-news/i-team-teens-in-smoke-shop-robbery-learn-fate/
bob
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Ah, the one teen has been "self medicating" to deal with trauma.
That's woke codewordism for he's a *expletive deleted*ing druggie and has turned to crime to support his habit.
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It is a shame, they were such good utes.
https://www.8newsnow.com/news/local-news/i-team-teens-in-smoke-shop-robbery-learn-fate/
Ah, yes -- the old "exposed to drugs in utero" argument. The defense attorneys for the Parklands school shooter have trotted out that argument, too.
I suppose there may be some validity to the argument, but it's hardly an excuse. If anything, it's a reminder that rabid animals are usually put down.
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Ah, the one teen has been "self medicating" to deal with trauma.
That's woke codewordism for he's a *expletive deleted*ing druggie and has turned to crime to support his habit.
You're right.
Don't forget the perps actually MET in drug court.
"You guys are druggies? Me too! Let's get together after this judge finishes his yakking and cuts us loose so we can do something as a team!"
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One of the things I recently learned: Those Chinese guys do that karate stuff naturally.
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the "I'm dead" kid got to see his friends run away while he got Vietnamese acupuncture.
That is really demoralizing.
I bet you they have not written him or called or apologized.
I wonder how the shop owner is doing? I hope he has guns now, I doubt the cowards have friends that will retaliate - but you never know.
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Was musing on "when to use deadly force."
Came to the conclusion - If I'm going to need to pull a knife in an altercation, I really should be grabbing something that goes bang.
I'm not going to be dancing around - if I lose a knee or the damn ankles rolls hard, I'm down. A firearm would still work. A knife? Not so much.
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We don;t know yet, but perhaps the shop owner could not have a gun. I wonder how many people are unpleasantly surprised when they're denied clearance for a firearm because of some piddly-fartin' violation or another. And the lawmakers keep felonizing previous non-felonies.
I still think that jump over the counter was absolutely equal to a home invasion, no lame legal excuses allowed.
Revenge? I kinda wondered about that myself.
That class of people have different moral structures than you and I, I'm thinking of the line in the movie Scarface(?) where Al Pacino says, in a heavily accented aggressive manner, "You *expletive deleted*ck-a me, I *expletive deleted*ck-a you."
I think that was the movie --memory fades. But to me that one scene always epitomized the escalation of violence in vengeful situations at that level of "morality."
Terry, 230RN
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Ute would've gotten a faceful of OC spray before I tried to go hands-on, though I recognize that would only be a couple of seconds later. One thing I keep in mind is that I always have the option of not deploying the blade on my knife. I would not like to get whacked in the temple with the butt-end of my CRKT.
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And of course the lawyer is screeching they were unarmed.
Attorney Carolina Griffin who represents the teen who remained at the door said there was no indication any of the teens had weapons. “…especially my client: no guns, no knives, nothing of the sort, but unfortunately, things happened the way that they did,” she said.
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And of course the lawyer is screeching they were unarmed.
Immaterial. At that level of aggressive behavior, unless you have x-ray vision or mind-reading capability, you must assume the worst.
As they say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
And, dear Ms. Attorney, as Dirty Harry* once said, "When a naked man is chasing a woman through a dark alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross."
Terry
*Inspector Harry Callahan, SFPD
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We don;t know yet, but perhaps the shop owner could not have a gun.
He’s said in interviews that he’s going to get a gun after that experience.
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If you can reach their temple for a carefully planned blow, they can do bad things to you without all that careful planning.
I may buy some bear spray for the store. Wasp spray has a reputation, but it is sort of overblown.
Right now? There's a few tools around. Things like 1/2" breaker bars...
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Right now? There's a few tools around. Things like 1/2" breaker bars...
Yeah. A 1/2" click-release torque wrench might be a bit longer, but using it as a club might upset the calibration.
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Yeah. A 1/2" click-release torque wrench might be a bit longer, but using it as a club might upset the calibration.
It's still new and has a warranty.
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If you can reach their temple for a carefully planned blow, they can do bad things to you without all that careful planning.
I may buy some bear spray for the store. Wasp spray has a reputation, but it is sort of overblown.
Right now? There's a few tools around. Things like 1/2" breaker bars...
Only use wasp spray if they are bugging you, actually - do not use it-illegal under federal law and you have many options available .
bear spray is a fog, it will fog up the entire store - use a streaming sort of pepper spray. bear spray is great for outdoors/wind going away from you.
I've gotten blowback using it, no fun.
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If you can reach their temple for a carefully planned blow, they can do bad things to you without all that careful planning
Which is why a face-full of OC spray would be my first move. I'm just saying that you can use a folding knife in more than one way. If I feel threatened enough to deploy the blade, then I will, fully recognizing that I'm unambiguously escalating to lethal force.
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Only use wasp spray if they are bugging you, actually - do not use it-illegal under federal law and you have many options available .
bear spray is a fog, it will fog up the entire store - use a streaming sort of pepper spray. bear spray is great for outdoors/wind going away from you.
I've gotten blowback using it, no fun.
I have had people sprayed with pepper spray by the police in the ER. They got right into their face and gave a squirt of the streaming type directly into the eyes. It usually calms the person down but you still would get the smell and minor effects of the spray throughout the ER. I would hate to see them use a fog in an enclosed space.
bob
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bear spray is a fog, it will fog up the entire store - use a streaming sort of pepper spray. bear spray is great for outdoors/wind going away from you.
I've gotten blowback using it, no fun.
Actually, most bear sprays are a cone pattern, which is a hybrid between a stream and a fogger. You can't get a 35-foot range from a fogger.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/outdoor-gear/best-bear-sprays/
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Actually, most bear sprays are a cone pattern, which is a hybrid between a stream and a fogger. You can't get a 35-foot range from a fogger.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/outdoor-gear/best-bear-sprays/
ah yes, you're quite correct, I couldn't articulate what I wanted to describe ... I used it a bunch when I lived in San Francisco...it really did look like a cone
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I can tell you from experience that if you cut loose with that hybrid cone spray in an enclosed space, everyone in there is out of the fight. An auto parts store may be big enough to not get everyone, but my mom ND'd bear spray in our living room and it cleared the first floor of the house till the fog settled enough to go back in and clean up.
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Back when I worked for the gun store we had an idiot customer who let loose with a pepper spray in the store.
It wasn't a particularly powerful one or all that good, but it still made it quite unpleasant to be there for quite awhile.
I coughed so hard was coughing up blood because my throat was so irritated.