Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Nick1911 on September 28, 2022, 10:23:29 PM
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Prediction time!
The Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines which connect Russian natural gas to continental Europe have developed significant leaks. Seismic data suggests man made explosions were the cause.
Who done it, and why?
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(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/848/Aliens.jpg)
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I like Perd's reply :D But Joe Biden said he was going to do this back in February; I think we should take him at his word on that. (would that be an act of war against
Germany Denmark?)
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LawDog makes a fairly compelling case for it being an accident caused by Russian negligence/incompetence.
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I'm in the who cares camp.
Over the past several decades the US repeatedly warned Western Europe, especially Germany, not to get so goddamned cozy with, and dependent on, the Russians for their energy needs.
Now they're paying for that. Hard.
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I'm in the who cares camp.
I'm in the who can really know camp.
All of our information comes from demonstrable liars in govmnt and media, so it's hard to make confident judgements. Even any "trustworthy" sources of information are hamstrung by the information chaos they're trying to sort through. Smokescreens, squid ink, fog of war, propaganda etc.
Everything is spy vs spy and all media is part of the battlespace. Our minds are part of the battlespace.
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I think we will eventually know.
I think it does matter considering the tensions being ramped up right now. The democrat party was always the party that claimed to be anti-war, but the last couple of D Presidents seem to have few qualms about using it. I am just concerned the current group in power assumes the worst consequences could never happen. I hope we find there is no connection to the US, but I would be surprised by that.
IMO, the better response to Russia using their fuel supply as leverage is to help our allies exploit competing fuel supplies (not just from the US) to lessen the importance of the Russian gas. Since the Democrats are beholden to the "no fossil fuels" party line, they can't or won't touch that option. They may not even consider it.
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(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/848/Aliens.jpg)
Why would Mexicans blow up the pipeline?
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LawDog makes a fairly compelling case for it being an accident caused by Russian negligence/incompetence.
Where is that? Thank you.
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. . . The democrat party was always the party that claimed to be anti-war, but the last couple of D Presidents seem to have few qualms about using it. . . .
Where do you get that? In modern times, Democrats have regularly supported wars, especially those where we have no obvious self-interest. This includes pretty big wars like Truman in Korea and Johnson in Vietnam, down to Clinton sticking our noses in Somalia.
And if you say "Yeah, But . . . " and bring up Republicans - you'd be right. Even nominally good GOP Presidents have fouled up. (e.g., Reagan in Lebanon)
As for who blew up the pipeline - I dunno. Tucker had an interesting take, and given what Biden actually said in the past - it's plausible. Also factor in the interests of those running the competing pipeline from Scandinavia. I'm not sure what the Russians would have to gain by blowing up the pipelines, since they could just turn off the flow . . . unless they're playing some doublethink PR game and want to blame someone else for freezing the EU this winter with a gas cutoff. Or maybe Ukrainians did it, so Russia's threatened gas cutoff would no longer be a factor in receiving aid from NATO/EU countries; this last would be an incredibly "high risk" maneuver with dire consequences for Ukraine if it came out. (Russia false flag maybe?)
Bottom line is - right now, we don't know whodunnit, or if it was an accident. MAYBE sometime we'll find out. Maybe.
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Where is that? Thank you.
Fascistbook.
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funny how this occurred right after Russia gets pushed back in places and simultaneously with the referendum vote in the disputed territories
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4th leak found and Russia knows who to blame
the Russian foreign ministry said the blasts had occurred in "zones controlled by American intelligence".
Nord Stream: Sweden finds new leak in Russian gas pipeline
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63071552
NS 1 hasn't transported gas since Russia shut it down "for maintenance"
The Nord Stream 1 pipeline - which consists of two parallel branches - has not transported any gas since late August when Russia closed it down, saying it needed maintenance.
Can you say distraction? I knew you could.
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Where do you get that? In modern times, Democrats have regularly supported wars, especially those where we have no obvious self-interest. This includes pretty big wars like Truman in Korea and Johnson in Vietnam, down to Clinton sticking our noses in Somalia.
You must have misread it, because that's what he was referring to. The anti-war talk is just talk to trick young people into voting for them; they love war just as much as the neocons.
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Where is that? Thank you.
Ok, the Nord pipeline incidents.
Sigh. I shouldn't do this, but ...
I call them "incidents" for a reason. I grew up in overseas oilfields. I try to, by training, observe everything from as objectively neutral a viewpoint as possible.
In my experience when anything involving energy-industry hydrocarbons explodes ... well, sabotage isn't the first thing that comes to mind. And honestly, when it comes to a pipeline running natural gas under Russian (non)maintenance, an explosion means that it's Tuesday. Or Friday. Or another day of the week ending in "y".
"But, LawDog," I hear you say, "It was multiple explosions!"
Yes, 17 hours apart.
The Nord pipelines weren't in use. To me, that means it's time for maintenance! Hard to maintain pipes when product is flowing.
Pipelines running methane, under saltwater, require PMCS* quicker than you'd think, and more often than you'd believe.
I would bet a cup of coffee that any of the required weekly and monthly checks and services since the Russians took over have been pencil-whipped. (See Andreev Bay 1982.)
They officially shut it down in July of 2020 for maintenance, and had cornbread hell getting it back on-line, and "issues" with maintaining flow throughout the next year; shut it down again in July of 2021, with bigger "issues" -- we say "issues" because the Russians won't explain what these issues were -- and even more problems, including unexplained, major disruptions in gas flow in Dec21/Jan22; Feb 22; and April 22.
Yeah, there's problems with those lines. And these are the same folks that PMCS'd Chernobyl.
So. They've got pipelines with issues that are currently pressurised (with highly flammable, if not outright explosive, natural gas/methane), but not moving product. It's time to find out what those issues are.
And they blew up. My shocked face, let me show you it. Next time, tell Sergei to put out the cigarette before pulling a pressure test.
Is there a possibility of sabotage? Yeah. Especially in the current world situation -- but folks thought the Kursk went down because of hostile actions, too.
So, yes, hostile actions are a possibility, but mass amounts of explosive hydrocarbon gas + 300 feet down under salt water + shitty Russian maintenance = "Nobody could have possibly seen this coming", and yet another entry into the extensive Wikipedia page on "Soviet/Russian disasters".
*PMCS: Preventative Maintenance Checks and Services
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Nord, part 2.
(Because I'm masochistic, that's why).
"But what issues could happen in an undersea pipeline that could cause ruptures?"
Oh, my sweet summer child. Many, many, many.
However, in this case involving a natural gas pipeline under the pressure of 300 to 360 feet (8.85 atmospheres to 10.6 atm.) of water, I'd like you to turn your eyes towards a fun little quirk of nature called "methane hydrates".
Well, actually, I'd like you to meditate upon "hydrate plug", but give me a moment.
Under certain circumstances of pressure, temperature, and water presence natural gas/methane will form solid hydrates, with concomitant amounts of fun.
For the Chinese definition of fun, anyway.
Keeping hydrates from forming is a constant battle, requiring vigilance, expertise, diligence, and constant water removal. If any of these things slack at any time -- you're getting hydrate formation.
The presence of solid hydrates in a pipeline can cause flow issues (causing cracks), destabilize the pipe itself (more cracks), and cause fires (bad. Very Bad), but the big issue (pun intended) is when you form enough hydrates that it blocks the pipe entirely (see: Hydrate plug, above).
A hydrate plug is one massive pain in the ass to remove, and removal of said hydrate plugs is not a task to be undertaken by idiots, rank amateurs, morons, the terminally unlucky, or stupid people.
The Recommended Best Practice to clear a hydrate plug is a vvveeerryyy slllooowww depressurisation from BOTH ENDS, SIMULTANEOUSLY.
As the line reaches one standard atmosphere, heat is transferred to the plug from the environment, and the plug begins to melt, starting at the plug/wall interface.
However, if you are a national gas company with institutional paranoia, a Nationalised aversion to looking weak or asking for help, and a Good Idea Fairy fueled by vodka -- well, you can depressurise the pipe from one end.
The hydrate plug will still melt at the plug/wall junction, but when it does, the pressurised side will launch the plug (five feet in diametre, and the same density as water ice) at almost 200 miles an hour down the pipe towards the depressurised side.
When this plug bullet hits a bend in the pipe -- well, it doesn't stop, nor does it change direction easily. It's going to make a hole.
What's even more fun is when somebody figures out what's happening and slams the valves closed ahead of that fast-moving plug. It's called the Diesel Effect, and it's basically a large amount of lovely, flammable natural gas suddenly compressed well above the ignition point between a fast-moving chunk of hydrate and a closed valve.
Boom. Big bada-boom.
Another fun thing that occurs to usually-intelligent people is to "gently warm the area of pipe where the plug is".
Don't do this. Methane hydrates disassociate really, really rapidly in the presence of heat. A pocket of gas will form somewhere inside the plug, next to the pipe wall, and the massive, localised pressure increase will rupture the pipe, spilling vapourised natural gas all over your heat source. (See "Bada-boom, above.)
Finally, for some reason, bureaucrats, politicians, amateurs, the alcohol-inspired, and idiots (but I repeat myself) always want to "Just blow that *expletive deleted*ing plug out of the pipe".
Don't do this. Ever. Just ... don't.
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I'm guessing sub-par construction and lack of maintenance. Just like a lot of infrastructure here.
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If you search “Russian oil field accidents” on YouTube you get a bunch of videos on Russian oil workers getting killed on the job. Their safety practices are basically nonexistent.
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Speaking as someone who does not know diddly squat about natural gas pipelines, I learned a lot from LawDog's post and can see how perhaps this was shoddy Russian maintenance work.
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Speaking as someone who does not know diddly squat about natural gas pipelines, I learned a lot from LawDog's post and can see how perhaps this was shoddy Russian maintenance work.
I have the same lack of experience in natural gas pipelines as Millcreek. But in reading the explanation, I understand ruptures, but I'm not sure where the explosions come from unless there's oxygen in the pipeline. Dieseling? Even diesels need regular air, not just diesel vapors to work, don't they?
Allowing air or oxygen into a methane pipeline seems remarkably unstable to me . . . and I don't see where that would come from underwater.
Not doubting the explanations, it's just that there seems to be some information missing that may be obvious to a petrochemical engineer, but isn't to me.
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I have the same lack of experience in natural gas pipelines as Millcreek. But in reading the explanation, I understand ruptures, but I'm not sure where the explosions come from unless there's oxygen in the pipeline. Dieseling? Even diesels need regular air, not just diesel vapors to work, don't they?
Allowing air or oxygen into a methane pipeline seems remarkably unstable to me . . . and I don't see where that would come from underwater.
Not doubting the explanations, it's just that there seems to be some information missing that may be obvious to a petrochemical engineer, but isn't to me.
I'm right there with you.
He did mention the possibility of a kinetic event when the plug dislodges. I do not know if the seismic analysis would show "it looks like an explosion" if this were the root cause, though.
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If a "maintenance" accident it seems like it would be pretty easy to back track to see if any Russian pipeline maintenance ships were in the area.
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Anybody got a match? [popcorn]
Woody
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If there's a methane hydrate involved there's water in that that can disassociate to free oxygen. For that matter, if the rupture is energetic enough, it could probably free some oxygen from the surrounding water.
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Where do you get that? In modern times, Democrats have regularly supported wars, especially those where we have no obvious self-interest. This includes pretty big wars like Truman in Korea and Johnson in Vietnam, down to Clinton sticking our noses in Somalia.
And if you say "Yeah, But . . . " and bring up Republicans - you'd be right. Even nominally good GOP Presidents have fouled up. (e.g., Reagan in Lebanon)
As for who blew up the pipeline - I dunno. Tucker had an interesting take, and given what Biden actually said in the past - it's plausible. Also factor in the interests of those running the competing pipeline from Scandinavia. I'm not sure what the Russians would have to gain by blowing up the pipelines, since they could just turn off the flow . . . unless they're playing some doublethink PR game and want to blame someone else for freezing the EU this winter with a gas cutoff. Or maybe Ukrainians did it, so Russia's threatened gas cutoff would no longer be a factor in receiving aid from NATO/EU countries; this last would be an incredibly "high risk" maneuver with dire consequences for Ukraine if it came out. (Russia false flag maybe?)
Bottom line is - right now, we don't know whodunnit, or if it was an accident. MAYBE sometime we'll find out. Maybe.
I don't disagree with you. Just that most anti-war protestors and such have always been in the Dem party even though a lot of Dem politicians are not anti-war and have started a lot of low level wars that expanded.
I notice a lot of Dem politicians seem to like the lower level conflicts where Republicans (or at least the voters) tend to prefer to either go all out or don't go to war at all. I remember someone explaining that as a Jacksonian viewpoint, but I don't remember the full discussion.
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Anybody got a match? [popcorn]
Woody
I really really want to go out there with a flare gun =D.
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As far as this being accidental we now have two or three (NS1 is actually 2 lines but not sure if just NS1-A or NS1-B has sprung a leak or both) separate pipelines leaking in four* different locations after multiple explosions reported in the area.
*Not sure how the four leaks are spread out between the three pipelines.
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I'm right there with you.
He did mention the possibility of a kinetic event when the plug dislodges. I do not know if the seismic analysis would show "it looks like an explosion" if this were the root cause, though.
A.) I don’t grok methane hydrate chemistry, but it doesn’t sound like combustion is the topic. More like rapid, highly localized, pressure spikes resulting in rupture.
B.) Given the thickness of the steel pipes, and concrete encapsulation, would a rupture from a non-splodey pressure spike (whether “kinetic” or just local pressure spike) be distinguishable from a splodey type on seismic sensors?
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I'm in the who cares camp.
Over the past several decades the US repeatedly warned Western Europe, especially Germany, not to get so goddamned cozy with, and dependent on, the Russians for their energy needs.
Now they're paying for that. Hard.
Gas prices went back up over $5 here when nordstream got popped. Care now?
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Gas prices went back up over $5 here when nordstream got popped. Care now?
Oh, stop whining about Biden's strong dollar!
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Gas prices went back up over $5 here when nordstream got popped. Care now?
Hurricane Ian just ripped a new ahole in Florida too. Refinery issues on the west coast.
Gas probably isn't going to be the only thing rising as stuff gets rebuilt after the hurricane.
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As far as this being accidental we now have two or three (NS1 is actually 2 lines but not sure if just NS1-A or NS1-B has sprung a leak or both) separate pipelines leaking in four* different locations after multiple explosions reported in the area.
*Not sure how the four leaks are spread out between the three pipelines.
I'm going to go with "CIA" or "it jus blewd up".
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"Blow'd up good. Blow'd up real good."
https://youtu.be/uHkvD7-u7y8
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Man, that could turn out to be one hell of an aerosol bomb!
Woody
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I think it just ruptured. Russian quality. Nothing moving through pipes in quite while. Moisture pools, steel rusts, pipe ruptures. Or aliens, take you pick.
bob
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I think it just ruptured. Russian quality. Nothing moving through pipes in quite while. Moisture pools, steel rusts, pipe ruptures. Or aliens, take you pick.
bob
Improper maintenance causing a hydrate plug to dislodge violently could do it. But do it to four different pipes at the same time? That's intentional.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ
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Obviously the US did it to force Europe to go all in. Nothing left to lose, nothing left to negotiate. Why the hell would Russia cut the hose if they control the faucet? As for an accident yeah right, during a critical time of the war a strategic asset of power blows up, but no it was probably just some whales using the infrastructure as scratching poles ;/
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Why the hell would Russia cut the hose if they control the faucet?
There was gas in the lines but it wasn't being moved so they weren't really being used anyway. I can see Russia doing it to blame the US/NATO/W. Europe and by extension Ukraine both as a distraction internally and externally and to drive up prices in Europe.
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I just saw on the teevee that NATO is calling it sabotage. They say the explosions were too far apart and too closely timed for it to be coincidence or a cascade failure (I could see the latter on pipes close together within the same manifold system). The teevee didn't say if NATO named a likely culprit.
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Gas prices went back up over $5 here when nordstream got popped. Care now?
Gas as in Natural Gas?
Or Gas as in Gasoline?
Not sure where you live, but Nordstream's leaks has had exactly ZERO effect on gasoline prices in Washington, DC, metro.
So.... no. Still don't care in the least.
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Didn't the Tom Clancy Novel "Red Storm Rising" start with Russian oil infrastructure exploding and slowly escalate into WW3? I feel like between the explosion's and NATO's response to them we are accelerating towards direct conflict.
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I just saw on the teevee that NATO is calling it sabotage. They say the explosions were too far apart and too closely timed for it to be coincidence or a cascade failure (I could see the latter on pipes close together within the same manifold system). The teevee didn't say if NATO named a likely culprit.
I’m going to stick with crappy Russian maintenance leading to accidents until credible information comes out to the contrary.
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I’m going to stick with crappy Russian maintenance leading to accidents until credible information comes out to the contrary.
Probably the most likely scenario but someone is going to use it as an excuse for escalation…
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Didn't the Tom Clancy Novel "Red Storm Rising" start with Russian oil infrastructure exploding and slowly escalate into WW3? I feel like between the explosion's and NATO's response to them we are accelerating towards direct conflict.
Yes. Religious terrorists basically brought Soviet oil production to its knees.
Not really sure I see much in the way of corollaries between the fictional and the real, though.
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I’m going to stick with crappy Russian maintenance leading to accidents until credible information comes out to the contrary.
Which matters more: what actually happened, or the narratives that are pushed upon the public consciousness? Which will world leaders act on?
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Which matters more: what actually happened, or the narratives that are pushed upon the public consciousness? Which will world leaders act on?
Yeppers.
I was just searching news feeds, and the predominant narrative by entities like NATO and the governments of other countries (and their intel agencies) is that this was sabotage. It seems to be running about 70/30 right now on if it was Russia or the US.
So yeah, it could be a complete accident, but official international bodies are calling it sabotage, and that's what everyone will be running with. To include speculation that the US set it up during the recent BALTOPS exercise.
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Which matters more: what actually happened, or the narratives that are pushed upon the public consciousness? Which will world leaders act on?
World leaders are hellbent on making this current unpleasantness nuclear, so whichever leads there...
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Which matters more: what actually happened, or the narratives that are pushed upon the public consciousness? Which will world leaders act on?
Fair point. Regardless though this will only reinforce my assumption of governcritters being consistent liars.
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Fair point. Regardless though this will only reinforce my assumption of governcritters being consistent liars.
Depends on what you mean by "consistent."
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Fair point. Regardless though this will only reinforce my assumption of governcritters being consistent liars.
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How can you tell a politician is telling a lie?
Their lips are moving.
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Maybe they'd be less motivated to lie if they were strictly term-limited.
Terry, 230RN
"I'd rather be governed by the first 2000 people in the Boston phone book than the 2000 people who make up the faculty of Harvard."
--William F. Buckley Jr. There are many variations on this concept which Mr. Buckley used.
(https://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/stopjack.gif)
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Maybe they'd be less motivated to lie if they were strictly term-limited.
Terry, 230RN
"I'd rather be governed by the first 2000 people in the Boston phone book than the 2000 people who make up the faculty of Harvard."
--William F. Buckley Jr. There are many variations on this concept which Mr. Buckley used.
(https://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/stopjack.gif)
Why would that make them not lie? That'd just reduce them to lying for one term to get in and get paid selling us out. If anything it would make it easier for them to lie to us since it would be a new face every term. Candidate nomination is what needs overhauled so the paid liars can't be selectively sent in by their owners; take away their ability to buy nominations.
I propose a draft style: a few people are drafted from every county, after actual (not show/staged) public interviews and debates the county votes for their nominee to send up to the state, and so on. You'll get fifty candidates that the nation as a whole then can pair down to 10, and then 2, and then choose your president. The point of this whole arrangement is to take away candidate nomination/selection/gerrymandering by big money and entrenched interests.
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^
Heh. Actually, no lie, I had a yes-no option in that post which I took out to kind of keep the thread on track:
Yes?
No?
So I thank you for your remarks. Personally, I think the benefits of term limits outweigh the disadvantages in terms of discouraging the control freak factor in politics --as well as moderating the life benefits of public office like medical care and retirement goodies as motivation for getting elected or re-elected to "public" service.
But that's beside the question of the pipeline damages and who's lying about it.
So: sorry.
(https://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/stopjack.gif)
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The official position of the United States appears to be that it was Russian sabotage:
President Joe Biden labeled the damage to Gazprom-led Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines under the Baltic Sea as an intentional “act of sabotage,” telling Russian President Vladimir Putin that the United States and its allies won’t be “intimidated” by his words or threats.
“Let me say this: It was a deliberate act of sabotage, and now the Russians are pumping out disinformation and lies,” Biden told reporters at the White House on Friday. His latest remark rebukes Putin’s claim that the West is responsible for blowing up the pipelines, which carry Russian natural gas to Germany.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-says-nord-stream-pipeline-damage-was-deliberate-act-of-sabotage_4768172.html
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It is being reported that sabotage was via tnt. I'm surprised at the tnt, but maybe it was used to throw off blame? I dunno. I, with no evidence, tend to think tnt would be a Ukraine thing.
https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-gas-leak-caused-hundreds-pounds-explosives-un-russia-2022-10
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Isn't TNT old school when it comes to explosives?
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Did they say it was “TnT” or did they say a “charge equivalent to so much TnT”?
And has actual TnT ever been a UDT material? Seems like it would be too sensitive to water, but I’m hardly an expert.
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It is being reported that sabotage was via tnt. I'm surprised at the tnt, but maybe it was used to throw off blame? I dunno. I, with no evidence, tend to think tnt would be a Ukraine thing.
https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-gas-leak-caused-hundreds-pounds-explosives-un-russia-2022-10
Major component of component B, and torpex, if memory serves.
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The story says tnt, but its business insider, so...
Edit: kgb posted while I typed. I have no expertise in explosives other than what Boyd crowder taught me.
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While still having zero explosives expertise, I looked up TORPEX and I guess as implied by the acronym, it was a torpedo explosive used in WW2. Which - adjusting my tinfoil - how hard would it be for any actor to rig up TORPEX torpedoes in a modern submarine? Or who all might have access to older diesel electric subs?
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While still having zero explosives expertise, I looked up TORPEX and I guess as implied by the acronym, it was a torpedo explosive used in WW2. Which - adjusting my tinfoil - how hard would it be for any actor to rig up TORPEX torpedoes in a modern submarine? Or who all might have access to older diesel electric subs?
That's just what I thought of while typing. There's a lot more possibilities, which I shamelessly ripped from wiki because I'm busy doing kerbals. :P
Examples of explosive blends containing TNT include:
Amatex
Amatol
Ammonal
Baratol
Composition B
Composition H6
Cyclotol
Ednatol
Hexanite
Minol
Octol
Pentolite
Picratol
Tetrytol
Torpex
Tritonal
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That's just what I thought of while typing. There's a lot more possibilities, which I shamelessly ripped from wiki because I'm busy doing kerbals. :P
Examples of explosive blends containing TNT include:
Amatex
Amatol
Ammonal
Baratol
Composition B
Composition H6
Cyclotol
Ednatol
Hexanite
Minol
Octol
Pentolite
Picratol
Tetrytol
Torpex
Tritonal
IIRC, TNT is seldom used by itself because it is oxygen deficient. (that's why it makes black smoke when it blows up) So they mix it with something that has excess oxygen (like ammonium nitrate) to make it balanced.
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(https://64.media.tumblr.com/1d4dfc763e5eb09f16403f61dae7a9fb/b0220d55a4ca940c-e9/s1280x1920/4f579337d2a3f153bbf6952dca280a94044c0f8a.jpg)
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We blew up the pipelines to keep Germany in line and dependent on us. Trying to isolate Russia and dominating Europe through NATO seems to be the play. If that doesn't work blow some stuff up, it's always our plan B (or A). The neocons/globalists running our foreign policy since HW Bush hate Russia with the heat of a billion exploding suns. They don't seem to care for us much either.
Just a theory and all that ... who knows?
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Obviously no corroborating data to back it up, but it makes for interesting speculation. I'm still in the camp that believes it to be a not to be ignored possibility.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2023/05/22/huge-if-true-nord-stream-sabotage-whistleblower-allegedly-comes-forward-thread/
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Saw that. Could be true. Trouble is we may never know which one of 50+ stories we've heard is true or even close to it.
At this point I'm surprise we haven't seen someone come out and say it was Elvis in a flying saucer that did it yet.
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Saw that. Could be true. Trouble is we may never know which one of 50+ stories we've heard is true or even close to it.
At this point I'm surprise we haven't seen someone come out and say it was Elvis in a flying saucer that did it yet.
Putting out a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of fake stories and "reveals" and "whistleblower" assertions is a time-honored way to camouflage the true story, if it ever comes out.
What's the real story? I don't know. But it's not implausible that some part of the Brandon administration had a hand in whatever happened.
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What's the real story? I don't know. But it's not implausible that some part of the Brandon administration had a hand in whatever happened.
The beauty of that is that Brandon might have approved it, and five minutes later he wouldn't even know what Nord Stream was.
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Saw that. Could be true. Trouble is we may never know which one of 50+ stories we've heard is true or even close to it.
At this point I'm surprise we haven't seen someone come out and say it was Elvis in a flying saucer that did it yet.
With JFK as his co-pilot. ;)
bob
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The beauty of that is that Brandon might have approved it, and five minutes later he wouldn't even know what Nord Stream was.
FIFY
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With JFK as his co-pilot. ;)
bob
And Fred Noonan as navigator.
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And Fred Noonan as navigator.
Ouch!
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Guess what's back in the news.
Roman Chervinsky, a former commander of one of the Ukrainian special forces units, was the "coordinator of the Nord Stream operation" and managed a six-person team that carried out the devastating multibillion-dollar infrastructure attack in September 2022, according to the report.
The outlet said Chervinsky and the group of six people rented a sailboat under false identities and used deep-sea diving equipment to place explosive charges on the gas pipelines.
He says it's Russian propaganda
Senior Ukrainian official coordinated Nord Stream pipeline attack: report
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senior-ukrainian-official-coordinated-nord-stream-pipeline-attack-report
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I don't know what to believe anymore, other than it was someone other than the ruskies (unless it was some ruskie non-sanctioned fringe cabal).
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I don't know what to believe anymore, other than it was someone other than the ruskies (unless it was some ruskie non-sanctioned fringe cabal).
They (there's always a "they") subcontracted to OceanGate and their Titan submersible . . . and then were afraid someone would talk, so something had to be done . . . [tinfoil]
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They (there's always a "they") subcontracted to OceanGate and their Titan submersible . . . and then were afraid someone would talk, so something had to be done . . . [tinfoil]
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/35/dd/d1/35ddd1c5b34f1368483ed4cd90b96586.jpg)
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I don't know what to believe anymore, other than it was someone other than the ruskies (unless it was some ruskie non-sanctioned fringe cabal).
Incompetence and poor maintenance resulting in a major accident is still at least as good of an explanation as sabotage.
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Incompetence and poor maintenance resulting in a major accident is still at least as good of an explanation as sabotage.
It certainly is still a valid explanation, but as I mentioned in an earlier post here, I would be more inclined to believe poor maintenance if the simultaneous explosions were within the same manifold system. At any rate, the United States already officially stated that it was sabotage by the ruskies, so if you don't believe that, you're an unpatriotic and disloyal domestic terrorist.
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Why in the world would the Russians blow up their own pipeline? So they couldn't export gas to Europe for cash?
That's amazingly.... something.
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It certainly is still a valid explanation, but as I mentioned in an earlier post here, I would be more inclined to believe poor maintenance if the simultaneous explosions were within the same manifold system. At any rate, the United States already officially stated that it was sabotage by the ruskies, so if you don't believe that, you're an unpatriotic and disloyal domestic terrorist.
Consider. Someone decides putin wants to sell gas, or least dangle the carrot of both lines flowing gas to Germany. So someone decides to just open the valve on the Russian side, on both pipelines. Not realizing or caring you need to PIG the lines, along with probably lots of other maintenance items. First shows some major problem so they slam some intermediate valves closed, but the methane hydrate plug is already in a bad place, and ... boom x2.