Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: sumpnz on December 16, 2022, 05:42:23 PM
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russians-mistreated-kherson-youngsters-childrens-cell-says-ukraine-official-2022-12-14/
Not sure what to think. I mean, I wouldn’t put it past the Russians to do that, but I also wouldn’t put it past the Ukrainians or western media to lie and say the Russians were torturing kids. Anyone have better intel?
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It wouldn't surprise me if some Russian personnel were sicko sadistic pedophiles, but I don't see what purpose torturing children would serve - I wouldn't expect youngsters to have any military secrets to divulge to interrogators. Unless they were being tortured to make their parents talk.
I can see the Russians failing to provide adequate care, brainwashing, and kidnapping (with transport to Russia) of the tykes.
Neither Russian denials nor Ukrainian accusations are 100% credible - truth is a casualty in wartime.
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Torturing kids would be a good way to get parents to talk or behave in a certain way.
I think apathetic neglect is much more likely.
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That makes sense cordex.
I think the article also mentioned children imprisoned for suspected resistance activities, such as spying. That is totally normal in this kind of warfare. I know Iraqi kids were used to spy on American soldiers in combat during the invasion. Maybe even to deliver bombs.
While I am sure there is a lot of lying propaganda put out by Ukraine, why wouldn't the Russians torture kids? Of course they would.
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While I am sure there is a lot of lying propaganda put out by Ukraine, why wouldn't the Russians torture kids? Of course they would.
Assuming for a second you have soldiers with the particular amorality that allows torturing kids the obvious reasons not to are: It's not particularly effective, it is known to lead to longer term issues for the country doing it, and itorture in general much less of kids is known to give bad information to the interrogator.
Russia arresting kids and keeping them in shitty conditions? I would buy that. Torturing kids? I'd need to see real, unbiased evidence.
Now ask yourself what Ukaraine has to gain by fabricating this story.
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I didn't click the link because I do not trust reuters at all - I hope no children were tortured but it would not surprise me if they were.
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Assuming for a second you have soldiers with the particular amorality that allows torturing kids the obvious reasons not to are: It's not particularly effective, it is known to lead to longer term issues for the country doing it, and itorture in general much less of kids is known to give bad information to the interrogator.
Have the Russians been effective in this war? ;)
In fact, torturing children is exactly what one would expect of evil, stupid, incompetent soliders like Russia has been deploying.
Mass rape and murder has been what Russians always have done in warfare. Behaving like civilized human beings would highly atypical of Russian soldiers.
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And of course the Ukrainians are bunch of liars too. Why wouldn't they?
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Have the Russians been effective in this war? ;)
In fact, torturing children is exactly what one would expect of evil, stupid, incompetent soliders like Russia has been deploying.
Mass rape and murder has been what Russians always have done in warfare. Behaving like civilized human beings would highly atypical of Russian soldiers.
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And of course the Ukrainians are bunch of liars too. Why wouldn't they?
I think it is always a good idea to remember who writes history, which is not just the winners, but the leadership of countries/cultures.
I have a somewhat unique perspective having grown up hearing first hand accounts of WW2 from the other side. I heard a lot of good stories about US soldiers from immediately after Germany's surrender, but also heard plenty of first hand accounts of American atrocities during the war, including against civilians.
Just like US historical and political literature is full of "bad Russians", of which there were plenty. One of my Uncles related to me far worse atrocities by Russian soldiers against Germans than by US soldiers. There are good and honorable Russians, both civilian and soldier, as well.
Interestingly, I just finished a history book titled "The Wolf" by Richard Guilliatt and Peter Hohnen. It's about a WW1 German Raider ship, decked out like a freighter, whose job it was to lay mines and capture and sink enemy freighters. The ship had to take prisoners (note that they took prisoners vs sinking enemy ships with all hands), which, given merchant vessels of the time, occasionally included women and children. One American captain, with his family onboard* was taken by the Wolf. He related how he was deathly afraid of the German "apes" (as depicted in US and British propaganda), who were known for horrendous crimes against their enemy. Instead of torture and death, one of the German officers gave up his quarters for the captain, his wife, and their child. The little girl had the run of the ship, to the delight of the German sailors.
So history is certainly not concrete or black and white.
*The captain of the German ship, when interviewed, had said that had he known that the American captain had his wife and daughter on board, would never have captured the freighter. The taking of prisoners was to keep the crews of captured ships from blabbing about the German secret mission and giving away his position during his year long mission.
Edit: American merchant captain, not British merchant captain.