Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: WLJ on April 13, 2024, 09:02:32 AM
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40 year old man goes on a stabbing rampage at a shopping centre (mall?) stabbing multiple people including a baby before being shot by a police officer
Reported 6 dead, unclear how many injured.
Suspect has not been IDed yet but article says he was known to police.
Revealed: Sydney knifeman, 40, who killed five women and one man in Westfield shopping centre bloodbath 'was known to police' and targeted screaming mum and her baby first before unleashing 15 minutes of horror until lone female cop shot him dead
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13303971/Knifeman-goes-rampage-Sydney-Four-feared-dead-shopping-centre-stabbing-spree-attacker-shot-killed-police.html
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Getting the impression he was targeting women as the one guy may have been fighting him. Maybe
They're saying it's not terrorism related but a voice in my head keeps whispering Gaza
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7 reported dead now
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"but a voice in my head keeps whispering Gaza"
You just noticed from the photographs that he looks like a strong, proud person of color lashing out at the unfair repression of white supremacy.
That makes you a racist white supremacist fascist!
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"but a voice in my head keeps whispering Gaza"
You just noticed from the photographs that he looks like a strong, proud person of color lashing out at the unfair repression of white supremacy.
That makes you a racist white supremacist fascist!
Too late to change my post to say "obviously a Trump loving far right wing trans-phobic white supremacist since they're the only ones known to do something like this"?
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Good thing he didn't have a gun or those people would be even more dead.
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Good thing he didn't have a gun or those people would be even more dead.
Aren't stabbing murders a sign that more gun control is needed?
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Aren't stabbing murders a sign that more gun control is needed?
Clearly.
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Still all we have is
40
male
Known to law enforcement
"Not terrorism"
My they're hiding something sense is tingling
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Name released: Joel Cauchi
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68810428
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This feels like crazy incel to me. At least more than politically motivated violence.
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He was apparently was targeting only women. Being reported by some he would pass men to go after women. The only guy stabbed tried to stop him. So maybe incel maybe not incel. Maybe time will tell.
I think the part they're trying to bury is that he was apparently on police radar too.
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My they're hiding something sense is tingling.
So - you've been bitten by that spider too? :rofl:
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More than likely not incel, apparently worked as an escort for both men and women.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13306409/Sydney-killer-escort-Joe-Cauchi-sex-work-massacre.html
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Good thing he didn't have a gun or those people would be even more dead.
Amen! He would totally have killed fewer people if he’d had a rapid fire rifle
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Amen! He would totally have killed fewer people if he’d had a rapid fire rifle
Or, with RKBA, there could have been an Eli Dicken available to put the killer down rather than allowing him to rampage for 20+ minutes.
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Or if maybe the obviously severe mentally ill weren't allowed to freely roam the streets maybe this would have never happened especially considering the fact the police were aware of this guy having issues.
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I have been reading a lot about Inspector Amy Scott, a senior commissioned officer who stopped the assailant. She happened to be in the area on other duties, was the first police officer on the scene, was directed by shoppers to the assailant and went after him. After he turned and raised the knife, did not follow commands to drop it and started toward her, she fired once with her Glock. She then administered CPR to him as per her training and requirements.
Many people on the Net and Reddit are suggesting that billboards with her face be erected outside of the Uvalde police headquarters.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68806806
https://nypost.com/2024/04/13/world-news/hero-cop-who-singlehandedly-stopped-crazed-sydney-mall-stabber-idd-as-amy-scott/
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While not giving the Uvalde cops an iota of respect, gun vs gun is a little different than gun vs knife. The Aussie cop still gets full creds and props. In the land of gun free zones, the bad guy thought that the one-knifed man would be king, but a bullet proved him wrong.
I totally get her administering CPR. However, not knowing the condition of the assailant at the time, I might have waited for backup so that he couldn't pull a Ser Gregor on me after he was down. He might have already been down and out though.
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Or if maybe the obviously severe mentally ill weren't allowed to freely roam the streets maybe this would have never happened especially considering the fact the police were aware of this guy having issues.
How many mass attacks have we read about in recent years where AFTER THE FACT it comes out that the perpetrator was "an individual known to the police"?
I don't get it. I though the purpose of all the spying our government overlords have instituted against private citizens was supposed to make us safer. Instead, it always seems to be just a talking point after a mass killing incident.
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I don't get it. I though the purpose of all the spying our government overlords have instituted against private citizens was supposed to make us safer. Instead, it always seems to be just a talking point after a mass killing incident.
Don't be stupid. The purpose of all the spying the government does on us is to male THEM safer.
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How many mass attacks have we read about in recent years where AFTER THE FACT it comes out that the perpetrator was "an individual known to the police"?
I don't get it. I though the purpose of all the spying our government overlords have instituted against private citizens was supposed to make us safer. Instead, it always seems to be just a talking point after a mass killing incident.
This is a difficult issue because if you allow for widespread detention of the mentally ill, you give the government the power to go after people with mental issues for example like denying the election result or just not being liked by the people around them. Broad powers to detain people deemed mentally ill are not a good solution.
It just discredits gun rights activism to seize on cases like this and imagine it somehow would’ve been less deadly if it happened with ready access to firearms by all parties. That’s a clearly wrongheaded argument. Mass shootings with access to AR pattern rifles are going to rack up a higher body count than knife attacks no matter what.
The reason these events are rarer in Australia no matter the choice of weapon has more to do with the economy and health system. Welfare states have fewer unsupported, desperate and ill people which means events like this are less common.
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This is a difficult issue because if you allow for widespread detention of the mentally ill, you give the government the power to go after people with mental issues for example like denying the election result or just not being liked by the people around them. Broad powers to detain people deemed mentally ill are not a good solution.
It just discredits gun rights activism to seize on cases like this and imagine it somehow would’ve been less deadly if it happened with ready access to firearms by all parties. That’s a clearly wrongheaded argument. Mass shootings with access to AR pattern rifles are going to rack up a higher body count than knife attacks no matter what.
The reason these events are rarer in Australia no matter the choice of weapon has more to do with the economy and health system. Welfare states have fewer unsupported, desperate and ill people which means events like this are less common.
What makes you this way? Have you sought help? Your last paragraph even disputes itself.
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This is a difficult issue because if you allow for widespread detention of the mentally ill, you give the government the power to go after people with mental issues for example like denying the election result or just not being liked by the people around them. Broad powers to detain people deemed mentally ill are not a good solution.
It just discredits gun rights activism to seize on cases like this and imagine it somehow would’ve been less deadly if it happened with ready access to firearms by all parties. That’s a clearly wrongheaded argument. Mass shootings with access to AR pattern rifles are going to rack up a higher body count than knife attacks no matter what.
The reason these events are rarer in Australia no matter the choice of weapon has more to do with the economy and health system. Welfare states have fewer unsupported, desperate and ill people which means events like this are less common.
The mass shooter Eli Dicken took care of managed to kill 3 people. The Sydney attacker killed 7 last I heard.
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The mass shooter Eli Dicken took care of managed to kill 3 people. The Sydney attacker killed 7 last I heard.
The mass shootings that didn’t happen killed zero people. You clearly understand what a nonsense comparison this is.
Mass casualty events where lots of victims are armed still happen, and when the perp has an AR pattern firearm it stands to reason on average you’ll get more deaths as compared to a knife attack. Sometimes a good guy with a gun stops it, but not always, sometimes the perp slips on a banana peel. Cherry picking incidents is what anti-gun propagandists do.
Making arguments that are clearly wrong in support of gun rights does not advance the cause.
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Mass killings (with any weapon) are rarer in Australia because it's a mostly homogenous, high trust culture with a solid first world police force, has solid borders to keep out unwanted stuff and people, and is prosperous enough that very few people are desperate and unnoticed enough to slip into the kind of psychosis that leads to mass killings. (at least mass killings of the kind we imagine when we hear the term). It has *expletive deleted*ck all to do with the availability of various weapons.
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Doomscrolling dumsterfire.com this morning and I see this report of another stabbing in Sydney.
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1779830784729264395?t=ePRkcyHWTq0qHeemWYCmSw&s=19
Obviously no details but i am interested that the police apparently had to protect the stabber after the initial violence. The would be victims were willing to handle this themselves. Despite me calling it a high-trust culture (it is) that doesn't show a lot of trust in the government to handle this to the victim's satisfaction.
Or, because it's Twitter, it could be something entirely different.
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My they're hiding something sense is still tingling
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Mass casualty events where lots of victims are armed still happen, and when the perp has an AR pattern firearm it stands to reason on average you’ll get more deaths as compared to a knife attack.
That may be true... but arson attacks can kill the even more than a rifle attack.
In 2009 Australia suffered deliberatly set bushfires that killed at least 135 people.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/09/australia-bushfires
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Doomscrolling dumsterfire.com this morning and I see this report of another stabbing in Sydney.
Video of the attack:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1779816477584961989
https://twitchy.com/coucy/2024/04/15/christian-leader-knife-attack-sydney-australia-n2395097
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The mass shootings that didn’t happen killed zero people. You clearly understand what a nonsense comparison this is.
Mass casualty events where lots of victims are armed still happen, and when the perp has an AR pattern firearm it stands to reason on average you’ll get more deaths as compared to a knife attack. Sometimes a good guy with a gun stops it, but not always, sometimes the perp slips on a banana peel. Cherry picking incidents is what anti-gun propagandists do.
Making arguments that are clearly wrong in support of gun rights does not advance the cause.
And now you are shifting goal posts like a typical feckless liberal. You said, and I quoted you, bolding the relevant part, that "no matter what" a mass casualty event with an AR would kill more people than a knife attack. I showed you you a recent example of a counterfactual and your response is to move the goal post to "on average".
As dogmush said, choice of weapon, or availability of various options, means fuckalll to likelihood of them happening or even ultimate body count. The worst one use usa history I'm aware of the perps used box cutters and airplanes. Excluding Islamic terrorists, the Bath school massacre used explosives, not guns. There have also been a number of knife attacks in China that killed more than most AR attacks in the USA.
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This feels like crazy incel to me. At least more than politically motivated violence.
Could well be. His father has stated he believes his son was very frustrated at not having a girlfriend. He was also schizophrenic.
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Could well be. His father has stated he believes his son was very frustrated at not having a girlfriend. He was also schizophrenic.
Reportedly the guy was working as an escort for both men and women according to one of the above links so I don't know what to make of what the father is saying
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I'm getting evil "assault" knife vibes here.
The father also said he took five knives, which he described as U.S. military combat grade, from his son while they were living together in the Toowoomba family home last year.
"I said to my mate, ‘Why do I feel I’m going to be killed in my own house by my own son with a U.S. combat knife?’" he added.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/australian-killers-father-reveals-why-son-targeted-women-during-deadly-stabbing-sydney-mall
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Mentally ill, incel. Stabbed women, and the only guy with the stones to confront him.
The obvious solution that will clearly prevent more such tragedies is more gun control. With knife control as a bonus.
Aside - can one even buy pointy knives in (formerly) Great Britain anymore? Or do they have to have rounded, blunt tips now?
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The father also said he took five knives, which he described as U.S. military combat grade, from his son while they were living together in the Toowoomba family home last year.
:O :O
Da Faq? The Army has never issued me anything besides a shitty ass baynet that cuts nothing and does not hold an edge. Every unit I know of leaves US Military Grade knives in the arms room. Maybe a KaBar? Not exactly a Hitori Hanzo knife there either.
Honestly the most "US Military Grade" knife you can buy is a Gerber Multitool. We still actually issue those.
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Why are some calling him an incel when he doesn't seem to meet the definition of an incel? At least so far.
incel
/ˈinˌsel/
noun
noun: incel; plural noun: incels
a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.
incel
noun
in·cel ˈin-ˌsel
plural incels
: a person (usually a man) who regards himself or herself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses extreme resentment and hostility toward those who are sexually active
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:O :O
Da Faq? The Army has never issued me anything besides a shitty ass baynet that cuts nothing and does not hold an edge. Every unit I know of leaves US Military Grade knives in the arms room. Maybe a KaBar? Not exactly a Hitori Hanzo knife there either.
Honestly the most "US Military Grade" knife you can buy is a Gerber Multitool. We still actually issue those.
Thought you might like that
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Why are some calling him an incel when he doesn't seem to meet the definition of an incel? At least so far.
It's become a generic term for sexually frustrated young men, regardless of why, or how they identify.
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It's become a generic term for sexually frustrated young men, regardless of why, or how they identify.
If the reports of him working as a an escort for both men and women are true where are we getting sexually frustrated from?
His father said he couldn't get a girl friend and that just means to me once girls found out how crazy he was they left. add to that his father may have been completely unaware of his son's line of work. Again if true.
Unless I'm missing something I just don't think the label applies......yet.
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I love this meme, that' all.
(https://i.imgur.com/Fe85Z8r.png)
bob
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Maybe the escort story is bs?
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Why are some calling him an incel when he doesn't seem to meet the definition of an incel? At least so far.
I was just spitballing based on the reports of him running around knifing women. That fits with the general "incel" theme of "I'm fine, but these evil women are whores but won't sleep with me for some reason" that seems to headline the *very* little bit of incel generated online content I've seen.
If he himself was a whore, I hope this does not portend a trend. The last thing the US needs is all the Only Fans folks getting violent when they get sick of whoring.
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Maybe the escort story is bs?
Like I said if true.
Just seeing the incel label getting thrown about and wondered if I'm missing something. Just don't think it applies yet. Maybe more will come out saying one way or another.
If just being sexually frustrated makes you an incel I guess I could have been called an incel for a good chunk of my life.
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Like I said if true.
Just seeing the incel label getting thrown about and wondered if I'm missing something. Just don't think it applies yet. Maybe more will come out saying one way or another.
If just being sexually frustrated makes you an incel I guess I could have been called an incel for a good chunk of my life.
I think the key discriminators to incel vs. sexually frustrated is giving up on seeking out sexual relationships, and blaming the oppisite sex for the outcome.
Like I said, I'm not saying this tool was, just that the attack had the vibe to me. I threw it out there in context with other folks implying political or racial motivation early on.
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]
:O :O
Da Faq? The Army has never issued me anything besides a shitty ass baynet that cuts nothing and does not hold an edge. Every unit I know of leaves US Military Grade knives in the arms room. Maybe a KaBar? Not exactly a Hitori Hanzo knife there either.
Honestly the most "US Military Grade" knife you can buy is a Gerber Multitool. We still actually issue those.
I expect cheap Chinesium "survival" knives
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Mass killings (with any weapon) are rarer in Australia because it's a mostly homogeneous, high trust culture with a solid first world police force, has solid borders to keep out unwanted stuff and people, and is prosperous enough that very few people are desperate and unnoticed enough to slip into the kind of psychosis that leads to mass killings. (at least mass killings of the kind we imagine when we hear the term). It has *expletive deleted*ck all to do with the availability of various weapons.
Oddly enough, that is one of the points made about Japan as well.
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If the media is calling him an incel, that's because they think incels are right-wing. It allows them to assign blame, politically.
I'm getting evil "assault" knife vibes here.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/australian-killers-father-reveals-why-son-targeted-women-during-deadly-stabbing-sydney-mall
Those comments about not just military but specifically US military knives sound pretty fishy. He's deliberately trying to blame the United States for his Australian kid stabbing people. Just trying to deflect blame, though, I suppose.
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Mass killings (with any weapon) are rarer in Australia because it's a mostly homogenous, high trust culture with a solid first world police force, has solid borders to keep out unwanted stuff and people, and is prosperous enough that very few people are desperate and unnoticed enough to slip into the kind of psychosis that leads to mass killings. (at least mass killings of the kind we imagine when we hear the term). It has *expletive deleted*ck all to do with the availability of various weapons.
Yeah, mass casualty events happen at a lower rate for sure. 30 percent of Australians were born overseas, so I’m not sure what you mean by “homogenous” - it’s the democratic institution and government support that seems to keep people relatively well off that I see, not any mysterious features of the culture which is hugely impacted by immigration, much much more so than in the USA.
Having public healthcare means treatment is more likely to be available to the mentally ill, and having industrial relations that actually prevent unfair or capricious firings reduces the level of workplace and financial stress that frequently causes mass shootings in the USA.
On an incident by incident basis, though, it is obviously the case that fewer people die when knives are the most deadly instrument available to the average mentally ill attacker. Sumpnz’s point is transparently ridiculous - it’s akin to arguing that an attempted suitcase nuke attack is less deadly than other forms if the batteries go out and the bomb doesn’t detonate. The randomness of specific incidents changes body counts; it’s still absurd to say the risk to human life changes not at all with the selected weapons.
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Sumpnz’s point is transparently ridiculous - it’s akin to arguing that an attempted suitcase nuke attack is less deadly than other forms if the batteries go out and the bomb doesn’t detonate. The randomness of specific incidents changes body counts; it’s still absurd to say the risk to human life changes not at all with the selected weapons.
:rofl:
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As dogmush said, choice of weapon, or availability of various options, means fuckalll to likelihood of them happening or even ultimate body count. The worst one use usa history I'm aware of the perps used box cutters and airplanes. Excluding Islamic terrorists, the Bath school massacre used explosives, not guns. There have also been a number of knife attacks in China that killed more than most AR attacks in the USA.
1995 Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, 680 injured
1990 Happyland nightclub in NYC, 87 killed using a small can of gas
2016 Nice, France, truck driver plowed into crowd, 86 killed, 458 injured
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1995 Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, 680 injured
1990 Happyland nightclub in NYC, 87 killed using a small can of gas
2016 Nice, France, truck driver plowed into crowd, 86 killed, 458 injured
Yup. ARs aren't nearly as effective and explosives, incendiaries, or vehicles.
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Bath School disaster, the worse school attack in US history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
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Meanwhile
Terrified parents have fled a Melbourne shopping centre with their children after a bloody fight broke out between a group of machete-wielding youths.
The group clashed inside the Woodgrove Shopping Centre at Melton in Melbourne's north-west at about 5pm on Monday.
Witnesses claim those involved, who were described as teenagers and Sudanese, were armed with a variety of weapons and were seen waving knives and throwing chairs during the melee.
One woman said she fled the centre with her children after spotting a man 'waving a machete around'.
The 16-year-old has been charged with affray, possessing a prohibited weapon and being armed with criminal intent. He is set to face a children's court on Tuesday afternoon.
Police will charge the 15-year-old with affray, possessing a controlled weapon and being armed with criminal intent and then will be directly presented to a children’s court.
Woodgrove shopping centre, Melton: Families flee machete-wielding mob as savage gang fight erupts at suburban shopping centre in fresh outbreak of terrifying violence
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312579/Woodgrove-shopping-centre-Melton-terrified-mothers-children-flee-mall-machete-wielding-men-bloody-brawl-Westfield-Bondi-Junction-tragedy.html
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And more on the church stabbing
An Assyrian Orthodox Church bishop who was stabbed during a livestreamed church service in Sydney had spoken critically about Islam in a video recorded four months ago.
Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel was preaching at Christ The Good Shepherd Church in Wakeley in Sydney's west just after 7pm on Monday when a 16-year-old boy walked up to the altar and allegedly stabbed him multiple times.
On a separate video of the aftermath of the alleged terror attack, the boy said in Arabic 'If they didn't insult my prophet, I wouldn't have come here. If he didn't involve himself in my religion, I would not have come here.'
Churchgoers said he also used the Islamic phrase 'Allahu Akbar' repeatedly.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312597/Sydney-church-stabbing-wakeley-bishop-mar-mari-islam.html
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Yeah, mass casualty events happen at a lower rate for sure. 30 percent of Australians were born overseas, so I’m not sure what you mean by “homogenous” - it’s the democratic institution and government support that seems to keep people relatively well off that I see, not any mysterious features of the culture which is hugely impacted by immigration, much much more so than in the USA.
I said it was a mostly homogenous, high trust culture. Those Australians that are born overseas but choose to stay and live there adapt to and adopt that culture to a high degree. You yourself are a prime example, but during my visits I ran into this multiple times across folks of varying ethnicities and religions. The overwhelmingly accepted culture of Australia leads to less of the tribalism and violence that many places in the world see to greater or lesser degrees. There are certainly "out" groups in Australia. Gangs exist, those Sudanese youths from the the story WLJ just posted, probably some Aboriginal groups, but in general, the culture of Australia is remarkably cohesive and homogenous. Monocultures lead to decreased interpersonal violence almost everywhere they exist. Japan and New Zealand have similar cultural traits with similar results. Canada did, but are in the process of splitting into sub cultures. China does as well, although the enforcement mechanism is *very* different.
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WLJ - in your post #53, your top quote has this line - "who were described as teenagers and Sudanese" - which explains the machetes.
Those are weapons of terrorism because the damage and blood-letting are of such a magnitude. Also, from their origin countries, the Sudanese aren't likely to have access to firearms but machetes are easier to make and more available.
They are also quieter than guns.
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I said it was a mostly homogenous, high trust culture. Those Australians that are born overseas but choose to stay and live there adapt to and adopt that culture to a high degree. You yourself are a prime example, but during my visits I ran into this multiple times across folks of varying ethnicities and religions. The overwhelmingly accepted culture of Australia leads to less of the tribalism and violence that many places in the world see to greater or lesser degrees. There are certainly "out" groups in Australia. Gangs exist, those Sudanese youths from the the story WLJ just posted, probably some Aboriginal groups, but in general, the culture of Australia is remarkably cohesive and homogenous. Monocultures lead to decreased interpersonal violence almost everywhere they exist. Japan and New Zealand have similar cultural traits with similar results. Canada did, but are in the process of splitting into sub cultures. China does as well, although the enforcement mechanism is *very* different.
So you think everyone decides to behave more peacefully by magic? Or just because some other people did first? Again, that’s 30 percent foreign born. Unless you mean something different by “culture” than what most dictionaries call it, it is absolutely not homogenous.
What you observed on your visits and what I see living here isn’t homogenous beliefs, it’s a relatively across all populations lower level of stress. The reasons for that are institutional, there isn’t anything in the water that just magically makes people from all over the world more chill here. If there is anything approaching a cultural cause it is that trade unions achieved extremely high membership and thereby shaped voting and social service institutions. Australia has that in common with Scandinavian countries. But that’s not a product of some esoteric “trust” or magic personal qualities of its people in either place.
If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.
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Meanwhile
Woodgrove shopping centre, Melton: Families flee machete-wielding mob as savage gang fight erupts at suburban shopping centre in fresh outbreak of terrifying violence
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312579/Woodgrove-shopping-centre-Melton-terrified-mothers-children-flee-mall-machete-wielding-men-bloody-brawl-Westfield-Bondi-Junction-tragedy.html
Not sure if serious. If it’s a contest of posting horror stories of crime to prove which country is more violent, you need only scan your state’s papers to see where that one is going to land.
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Not sure if serious. If it’s a contest of posting horror stories of crime to prove which country is more violent, you need only scan your state’s papers to see where that one is going to land.
The US is more violent? Huh, I didn't know that. Glad you're here to point that out. I wish the media would tell us these things.
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The US is more violent? Huh, I didn't know that. Glad you're here to point that out. I wish the media would tell us these things.
Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?
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Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?
We'd ask the same about you.
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We'd ask the same about you.
1. That it discredits gun rights advocates to pretend it would’ve been no different if this guy were able to buy a rapid fire rifle and use that instead of knives;
2. That the generally lower rate of these incidents in Australia and other countries isn’t entirely to do with restrictions on weapons; high barriers to accessing health care and general life stressors are a cause as well.
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Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?
Do you view everything as some sort of political argument to be fought over? Maybe sometimes news is news.
Anyway
If I did have pick a point maybe that there are crazy people everywhere not just in the US and IF there was a political point maybe the one that nothing seems to be being done about them making all of us suffer. At first I was wondering if there could have been a Gaza protest connection (understandable speculation at this time IMHO) but have seen no evidence of one so far.
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So you think everyone decides to behave more peacefully by magic? Or just because some other people did first? Again, that’s 30 percent foreign born. Unless you mean something different by “culture” than what most dictionaries call it, it is absolutely not homogenous.
I don't "believe" anything. I'm stating an objective fact. Monocultures tend to have less interpersonal violence among members of the community. Australia proactively vets incoming migrants to encourage them to internalize and adopt Austalian culture. A person can adopt a new culture as their life changes, you know that right? 30% of people born overseas implies racial diversity, nut cultural.
Culture in an individual can be fluid. The prime example there is the early 20th century American immigrants who took pains to assimilate into American culture, in some cases even changing their names, and raise their children as Americans.
What you observed on your visits and what I see living here isn’t homogenous beliefs, it’s a relatively across all populations lower level of stress. The reasons for that are institutional, there isn’t anything in the water that just magically makes people from all over the world more chill here. If there is anything approaching a cultural cause it is that trade unions achieved extremely high membership and thereby shaped voting and social service institutions. Australia has that in common with Scandinavian countries. But that’s not a product of some esoteric “trust” or magic personal qualities of its people in either place.
If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.
Unfortunately for your rambling hypothesis, it's counter-factual. Australians do not report significantly less stress than Americans. Actually probably slightly more. Australians report in the 35%-38% range for Significant Anxiety, Distress and Depression. Americans report only 24% as significantly stressed.
Of the stressors, they are remarkably similar between our countries: Finances/Money, Health issues, family issues, and workplace stress rank at the top. (Although in the 2023 American stress survey "The Economy" edged out Family Issues here. I guess we don't believe the messaging that Bidenomics is awesome. >:D )
These numbers are based in "soft science" so I wouldn't take them as the holy writ, but they certainly don't show a trend of less stress, and specifically less stress about health, mental health and employment in Oz vs. the US. That's not the cause of Australia's relatively low violence rate.
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If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.
And yet Scandinavian counties have a suicide rate equal to or greater than the US depending on which one you look at.
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I don't "believe" anything. I'm stating an objective fact. Monocultures tend to have less interpersonal violence among members of the community. Australia proactively vets incoming migrants to encourage them to internalize and adopt Austalian culture. A person can adopt a new culture as their life changes, you know that right? 30% of people born overseas implies racial diversity, nut cultural.
So you think it is the 30 minute citizenship exam that created “monoculture”? And what is monoculture? It’s a bit rich to assert you’re stating a fact when the basis of it seems as wildly speculation based as that. I’m happy to hear what is a monoculture and also how the immigration system creates it here, but it seems a lot more fantastical as a cause of low violence and low stress than just having secure employment, high pay, and access to medicine.
Culture in an individual can be fluid. The prime example there is the early 20th century American immigrants who took pains to assimilate into American culture, in some cases even changing their names, and raise their children as Americans.
Unfortunately for your rambling hypothesis, it's counter-factual. Australians do not report significantly less stress than Americans. Actually probably slightly more. Australians report in the 35%-38% range for Significant Anxiety, Distress and Depression. Americans report only 24% as significantly stressed.
Of the stressors, they are remarkably similar between our countries: Finances/Money, Health issues, family issues, and workplace stress rank at the top. (Although in the 2023 American stress survey "The Economy" edged out Family Issues here. I guess we don't believe the messaging that Bidenomics is awesome. >:D )
These numbers are based in "soft science" so I wouldn't take them as the holy writ, but they certainly don't show a trend of less stress, and specifically less stress about health, mental health and employment in Oz vs. the US. That's not the cause of Australia's relatively low violence rate.
That’s a lot of words but although money health and family rate top, the measures of access to support for each are easily measured and it’s without a doubt that Australians have more security than the USA on those fronts. Again, you can assume it’s magic “monoculturalism” or look at measurable facts, like a higher level of job security, higher incomes, and easier access to healthcare. Those seem to be obvious causes of the lower stress and attendant lower levels of violence in this country. Asserting it is “monocultural” is not an objective response to basic economic measures.
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So you think it is the 30 minute citizenship exam that created “monoculture”?
That's a bit disingenuous. Doesn't the "thirty minute citizenship exam" come well after a legal immigrant is vetted? It seems getting into Australia is a bit more complicated than slipping across the border and saying "here I am".
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship/become-a-citizen/permanent-resident
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Come On De Selby, your neither retarded, nor ESL. Sentence structure means something. But let me lay it out for you:
It is an objective fact that populations with lower cultural diversity and higher interpersonal trust have less interpersonal violence. I don't "think people decide to behave more peaceably by magic", there's plenty of repeatable studies among populations large and small that show this trait. Australia, by and large, has a LOT of buy in and assimilation to the "Australian" culture, that is the societal values and mores that bind the population into a cohesive culture. No this isn't done b a 30min citizenship test, but it is helped by having hard to bypass borders, and non rubber stamp immigration laws. Helped, not 100% caused, before you jump on that. By and Large, the people that choose to immigrate to Australia, and jump through the hoops to do so, do it because they want to be Australian, and largely assimilate to those values and mores. Not 100%, Religion is still a thing, and you guys have the whole Aboriginal Gordian not going on, but in comparison to the US, and much of the recent immigration to Europe, Australia has lower variations in it's base culture, and is a higher interpersonal trust society. <- Those traits are linked to lower interpersonal violence regardless of weapons availability throughout known history.
You also conveniently ignored the second part of my post that you quoted:
We weren't discussing the ease of access to healthcare and employment benefits, we were discussing how people felt about them. Both the US and Australia regularly survey their populations on Stress and mental health, and the results of those studies are public and easily googleable. True, they studies aren't identical in both countries, but they are very similar and show trends in the countries nicely. Your hypothesis that Australians are less stressed is wrong. Australians are similarly stressed. For all that access to this that or the other may be measurably easier in Australia, it does not seem to translate to less stress about those functions. That's the problem with people's feelings. You can tell them over and over again how great the economy is their safety net is and they might not agree and feel good about it. Australians are not less stressed on a macro level than Americans, even if that hurts your personal feels about how great healthcare and employment is there.