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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: telewinz on May 31, 2005, 01:05:19 AM

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: telewinz on May 31, 2005, 01:05:19 AM

Pope John Paul is on the fast track for sainthood according to the Vatican (waive the 5 year waiting period).  IIRC doesn't a saint have to perform at least 3 miracles (documented) to be considered for sainthood?  Where has the news media been?  I don't recall any PAST headlines claiming Pope John Paul had performed a miracle, certainly if he had it would have been news worthy at the time right?  If popularity(?) is the prime criteria for sainthood, maybe we should take a closer look at Reagan.  Bringing about the fall of the Soviet Union should count for at least 1 miracle, surviving his gunshot wound #2  and lets not forget (#3) that he served as the most powerful man in the World while in the early stages of alzheimers disease!  "Five years after Ronald Reagan left the White House, he told the nation in a letter that he had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease".  "In general the disease follows an individual course for each patient. But in general one can characterize it perhaps as the mild cognitive impairment stage where there's just the forgetfulness. Then you get into clinical Alzheimer's Disease where you make the diagnosis. Now it's achieved the criteria for Alzheimer's Disease.

Saint Ronald, yep the G.O.P. is missing out on something here.

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: Iain on May 31, 2005, 03:02:35 AM

I think the miracles have to occur after death.

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: MaterDei on May 31, 2005, 03:03:14 AM

I can't tell whether your just making a GOP joke or you're really curious about the canonization process.  If the latter... http://www.catholic-pages.com/saints/process.asp

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: Stand_watie on May 31, 2005, 04:31:36 AM

Quote from: telewinz

Saint Ronald, yep the G.O.P. is missing out on something here.

I realize it was a joke, but protestants generally consider all Christians saints anyway, living or dead, miracles or not.

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: client32 on May 31, 2005, 05:24:20 AM

Quote

I think the miracles have to occur after death.

I thought the miracles had to be while living, but must be proven after the death.

Maybe someone who knows more than me can shed some light.

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: stever on May 31, 2005, 05:28:06 AM

The Catholic Church considers everyone in Heaven a saint but it recognizes canonized saints as those individuals who by means of a holy life and intercessory miracles from God as proof of their presence in Heaven.  Two miracles after their death, one for beatification and one at canonization, are required for the process.  The guidelines for miracles are extremely stringent and put through panels of experts for proof that this could not have happened on its own and there must be proof that no other Saint was invoked for intercession before God (similar to our prayerchains on earth).

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: Standing Wolf on May 31, 2005, 01:54:58 PM

Quote

The guidelines for miracles are extremely stringent...

If I shoot a 100 in slow fire this evening, it's going to be a miracle, and I don't care who's in charge of the verification process.

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: Guest on June 02, 2005, 02:57:56 AM

Quote from: client32

Quote

I think the miracles have to occur after death.

I thought the miracles had to be while living, but must be proven after the death.

Maybe someone who knows more than me can shed some light.

My understaing (which is rusty) is that at least one of the miracles have to occur after death. The idea is this; if one invokes the name of the proposed saint, and a miracles occurs in response, that is seen as a direct affirmation from God of the person's sainthood. Im sure Preacherman can give much better insight than this when he gets around to it, but im pretty sure that at least one of the miracles MUST occur after death.

For what its worth the miracles CAN occur after death, Joan of Arc had more than one miracle attributed long after she had passed.

Title: No offense but where's the miracles?
Post by: client32 on June 02, 2005, 04:19:47 AM

Thanks for the info.  It something I have thought was interesting, but never looked into.

I am not Catholic, nor do I hold any thought that I absolute knowledge of the processes.  Most all my knowledge comes from Catholic friends that I probably don't listen to good enough, or worse [shudder]TV[/shudder]