Followup - Teacher who allowed bear to be named pardoned.

[Firethorn]

Given what happened in the other thread, I'd like to keep this one clean, and to point out the sane(if delayed) resolution to this incident.

Sudan's President Pardons British Teacher

LONDON, Dec. 3 -- A British school teacher jailed in Sudan for two weeks after allowing her students to name a teddy bear Muhammad was freed Monday following a pardon by the Sudanese president.

I also found this interesting article: When Can Muslims Use the Name Mohammed?
That reveals the whole thing was a matter of etiquette, not something actually in their religious texts.

Given that I've actually read about muslims in other areas protesting Sudan's reaction in this incident, I think that this is overall positive.  I think that the sword wavers who protested earlier were probably stirred up by somebody trying to make a political point - by misrepresenting the incident to his followers.

[Manedwolf]

It's not sane, because the British government offered a simpering apology instead of a firey condemnation of such a completely asinine culture.

The PROPER thing to do would be to pull all their people out, close Sudan's embassy and expel their ambassador, and tell them to apply again once they decide to be part of the 21st century, not the 6th.

Every time you call "tolerance" on such sheer idiocy instead of smacking it down with words, if not force, you empower it and encourage it to spread, and spread, and spread.

[Firethorn]

Uh, if you look at it that way, Britain DID put quite a bit of pressure on Sudan for this incident, to the point that the president of Sudan decided that the easiest way to solve the problem was to pardon her and get her out on the next plane out.  For example, two leaders of British muslim communities traveled there to protest the action.

Pulling embassies should be reserved for more serious stuff - like if she'd been sentenced to years or death or something.

The sane part I was talking about was that muslim people and communities protested the decisions/actions.  What Sudan didn't wasn't particularly sane, no, but there were muslim communities willing to stand up and say:  You're being stupid.  That, I haven't seen much of before.

I'm willing to count that as progress.

[jefnvk]

As stupid as this case, I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

When you travel/live/teach abroad, you are not at home.  Don't expect tolerance or rights, if you get them, great, if not, you have to realize you are living in someone elses world.  You don't make the rules there, you are not at the top of the food chain.  Understand what is offensive/illegal, and don't do it.  If you do do something bad, get your butt to your embassy or out of the country ASAP, cause once you're caught, there isn't much anyone can do for you.

Sorry.  The rest of the world isn't always civilized.  If you can't handle that, don't leave home.

[Bogie]

They need to arrest a random Sudanese businessman, and make the news...

[jefnvk]

How about a Liberian woman, doing sometime legal in her country but not in the US?

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1125monkeyodd.html

[agricola]

Uh, if you look at it that way, Britain DID put quite a bit of pressure on Sudan for this incident, to the point that the president of Sudan decided that the easiest way to solve the problem was to pardon her and get her out on the next plane out.  For example, two leaders of British muslim communities traveled there to protest the action.

Pulling embassies should be reserved for more serious stuff - like if she'd been sentenced to years or death or something.

The sane part I was talking about was that muslim people and communities protested the decisions/actions.  What Sudan didn't wasn't particularly sane, no, but there were muslim communities willing to stand up and say:  You're being stupid.  That, I haven't seen much of before.

I'm willing to count that as progress.

I dunno, in terms of previous British pressure on the Sudan it was fairly low-key, we can go up several notches on the pressure meter  :



As for the "muslim leaders" that went out, I would hardly call Baroness Warsi a "muslim leader" - she is just a politician who failed to be voted in as an MP in the last election, and has somehow managed to get a peerage (convieniently allowing her a say in how the country is run).  Nearly everyone else though in the UK, Muslim or otherwise, though this was complete idiocy though, as did many people in the Middle East (and Sudan itself - the demo that was in the media spotlight was heavily government-run). 

[ilbob]

How about a Liberian woman, doing sometime legal in her country but not in the US?

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1125monkeyodd.html

if indians can use peyote in their religious ceremonies why can't she eat monkeys?

[Matthew Carberry]

How about a Liberian woman, doing sometime legal in her country but not in the US?

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1125monkeyodd.html

if indians can use peyote in their religious ceremonies why can't she eat monkeys?

Hindus use peyote?

[jefnvk]

How about a Liberian woman, doing sometime legal in her country but not in the US?

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1125monkeyodd.html

if indians can use peyote in their religious ceremonies why can't she eat monkeys?

I'm not saying she shouldn't be able to, jsut pointing out that when you go to a country, where you are teh foreigner, things that used to be acceptable no longer may be.  Even in America.

[Firethorn]

I'm not saying she shouldn't be able to, jsut pointing out that when you go to a country, where you are teh foreigner, things that used to be acceptable no longer may be.  Even in America.

Agreed.  Matter of fact, that woman is likely to face tougher consequences than the teacher.  Either large fines or a longer prison sentence.  While the arguement could be made that staying in a Sudan prison for any period of time is worse than any monetary fine, I'd disagree.  At least for a woman.

[roo_ster]

How about a Liberian woman, doing sometime legal in her country but not in the US?

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1125monkeyodd.html

if indians can use peyote in their religious ceremonies why can't she eat monkeys?

Hindus use peyote?

[apu_voice]Holy purple flying cow![/apu_voice]

[seeker_two]

How about a Liberian woman, doing sometime legal in her country but not in the US?

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1125monkeyodd.html

if indians can use peyote in their religious ceremonies why can't she eat monkeys?

Hindus use peyote?

[apu_voice]Holy purple flying cow![/apu_voice]

What kind of country do we live in where we can be so authoritarian to tell a person that they can't eat their own smuggled monkey but we can't even keep from confusing our Indians with their Indians?..... 

Now, if you'll excuse me.....I have a lemur in the oven...

[Phantom Warrior]

if indians can use peyote in their religious ceremonies why can't she eat monkeys?

Hindus use peyote?

Legality of Peyote in the United States
Feather, not the dot...

[Hawkmoon]

How about a Liberian woman, doing sometime legal in her country but not in the US?

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1125monkeyodd.html

Defense attorney Rostal has countered by accusing the government of picking on a poorly educated immigrant.

Her client's only offense, she said, was her inability to grasp Western attitudes and highly technical regulations regarding bushmeat.

What's highly technical about "This stuff isn't legal to import or to eat"? If she thought it was legal, why'd she call it fish?

Idiot.

[Firethorn]

What's highly technical about "This stuff isn't legal to import or to eat"? If she thought it was legal, why'd she call it fish?

Idiot.

Indeed, this shows that she knew that it was illegal in the states, versus merely naming a stuffed bear.