Author Topic: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals  (Read 3623 times)

geronimotwo

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By JASON STRAZIUSO, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 56 minutes ago
 


GARMSER, Afghanistan - The Marines of Bravo Company's 1st Platoon sleep beside a grove of poppies. Troops in the 2nd Platoon playfully swat at the heavy opium bulbs while walking through the fields. Afghan laborers scraping the plant's gooey resin smile and wave.

 
 
Last week, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit moved into southern Helmand province, the world's largest opium poppy-growing region, and now find themselves surrounded by green fields of the illegal plants that produce the main ingredient of heroin.

The Taliban, whose fighters are exchanging daily fire with the Marines in Garmser, derives up to $100 million a year from the poppy harvest by taxing farmers and charging safe passage fees  money that will buy weapons for use against U.S., NATO and Afghan troops.

Yet the Marines are not destroying the plants. In fact, they are reassuring villagers the poppies won't be touched. American commanders say the Marines would only alienate people and drive them to take up arms if they eliminated the impoverished Afghans' only source of income.

Many Marines in the field are scratching their heads over the situation.

"It's kind of weird. We're coming over here to fight the Taliban. We see this. We know it's bad. But at the same time we know it's the only way locals can make money," said 1st Lt. Adam Lynch, 27, of Barnstable, Mass.

The Marines' battalion commander, Lt. Col. Anthony Henderson, said in an interview Tuesday that the poppy crop "will come and go" and that his troops can't focus on it when Taliban fighters around Garmser are "terrorizing the people."

"I think by focusing on the Taliban, the poppies will go away," said Henderson, a 41-year-old from Washington, D.C. He said once the militant fighters are forced out, the Afghan government can move in and offer alternatives.

An expert on Afghanistan's drug trade, Barnett Rubin, complained that the Marines are being put in such a situation by a "one-dimensional" military policy that fails to integrate political and economic considerations into long-range planning.

"All we hear is, not enough troops, send more troops," said Rubin, a professor at New York University. "Then you send in troops with no capacity for assistance, no capacity for development, no capacity for aid, no capacity for governance."

Most of the 33,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan operate in the east, where the poppy problem is not as great. But the 2,400-strong 24th Marines, have taken the field in this southern growing region during harvest season.

In the poppy fields 100 feet from the 2nd Platoon's headquarters, three Afghan brothers scraped opium resin over the weekend. The youngest, 23-year-old Sardar, said his family would earn little money from the harvest.

"We receive money from the shopkeepers, then they will sell it," said Sardar, who was afraid to give his last name. "We don't have enough money to buy flour for our families. The smugglers make the money," added Sardar, who worked alongside his 11-year-old son just 20 yards from a Marine guard post, its guns pointed across the field.

Afghanistan supplies some 93 percent of the world's opium used to make heroin, and the Taliban militants earn up to $100 million from the drug trade, the United Nations estimates. The export value of this harvest was $4 billion  more than a third of the country's combined gross domestic product.

Though they aren't eradicating poppies, the Marines presence could still have a positive effect. Henderson said the drug supply lines have been disrupted at a crucial point in the harvest. And Marine commanders are debating staying in Garmser longer than originally planned.

Second Lt. Mark Greenlief, 24, a Monmouth, Ill., native who commands the 2nd Platoon, said he originally wanted to make a helicopter landing zone in Sardar's field. "But as you can see that would ruin their poppy field, and we didn't want to ruin their livelihood."

Sardar "basically said, 'This is my livelihood, I have to do what I can to protect that,'" said Greenlief. "I told him we're not here to eradicate."

The Taliban told Garmser residents that the Marines were moving in to eradicate, hoping to encourage the villagers to rise up against the Americans, said 2nd Lt. Brandon Barrett, 25, of Marion, Ind., commander of the 1st Platoon.

In the next field over from Sardar's, Khan Mohammad, an Afghan born in Helmand province who lives in Pakistan and came to work the fields, said he makes only $2 a day. He said the work is dangerous now that Taliban militants are shooting at the U.S. positions.

"We're stuck in the middle," he said. "If we go over there those guys will fire at us. If we come here, we're in danger, too, but we have to work," said the 54-year-old Mohammad, who supports a family of 10.

An even older laborer, his back bent by years of work, came over and told the small gathering of Afghans, Marines and journalists that the laborers had to get back to work "or the boss will get mad at us."

Staff Sgt. Jeremy Stover, whose platoon is sleeping beside a poppy crop planted in the interior courtyard of a mud-walled compound, said the Marines' mission is to get rid of the "bad guys," and "the locals aren't the bad guys."

"Poppy fields in Afghanistan are the cornfields of Ohio," said Stover, 28, of Marion, Ohio. "When we got here they were asking us if it's OK to harvest poppy and we said, 'Yeah, just don't use an AK-47.'"

at least this policy gives job security to our armed forces.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 01:45:42 PM »
If there were only some way to take most of the profit out of selling drugs....
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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Glock Glockler

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 03:36:49 PM »
If they allowed competing organizations the opportunity to buy the crop the taliban might find itself out of business. 

roo_ster

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 04:42:00 PM »
Hell, if US.gov bought it--all of it-- a 10% markup, the Taliban would be outta bidness in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan's GDP (PPP corrected) is only $35 billion per year.  Estimate 50% is opium, that's ~$17 billion.

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roo_ster

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French G.

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 06:09:46 PM »
Finally the Marines are the smart ones! For years we've burned the poppies.  More poppies get grown, Taliban buys them, re-sells opium at huge mark-up, buys more stuff to blow us up with. We need to buy every poppy in the country, then dump them at sea or something. No more Taliban. No more pissed off villages. I think the medical world faces a chronic shortage of affordable opiates, hmmm, maybe we could fix that too. Stupid puritanical US policies prevent us though.
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Antibubba

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 08:13:22 PM »
Maybe we could encourage them to grow hemp.  Wink

French is on the right track, though--offer them more for their labor.  Or give them the same deal as American farmers, and pay them to not grow anything at all.  sad
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LAK

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 11:58:03 PM »
As Chertoff said to the Senate Banking Committee; "Frankly, we can't differentiate between terrorism and organized crime and drug dealing .... "

There you have it from the horse's .. mouth.

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HankB

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 04:08:35 AM »
Next week, police will stop investigating kiddie porn so as not to upset NAMBLA.

Maybe the FBI will stop investigating bank robberies so as not to upset crime families.

Traffic cops will ignore speeders so as not to upset local leadfoots.

And some cities will stop catching and sending back illegal aliens so as not to upset coyotes and the Mexican government. (Oops, they're already doing that in some sanctuary cities.)

Maybe the thing to do is let the poppy farmers grow the stuff, watch them carefully, and then as soon as they're paid and the crop changes hands . . . kill the buyers.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 04:10:37 AM »
If there were only some way to take most of the profit out of selling drugs....

Sure there is. Execute dealers. Shoot smugglers. Quit playing around.

French G.

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 05:18:17 AM »
Next week, police will stop investigating kiddie porn so as not to upset NAMBLA.

Maybe the FBI will stop investigating bank robberies so as not to upset crime families.

Traffic cops will ignore speeders so as not to upset local leadfoots.

And some cities will stop catching and sending back illegal aliens so as not to upset coyotes and the Mexican government. (Oops, they're already doing that in some sanctuary cities.)

Maybe the thing to do is let the poppy farmers grow the stuff, watch them carefully, and then as soon as they're paid and the crop changes hands . . . kill the buyers.

Groan.  Opium poppies are that country's economy practically. Suppressing them only makes a population unable to do anything but be poor and angry. You want to grow the Taliban and fuel hate for America? Make a poppy farmer unable to support his family.  The farmers are not the enemy. The people buying the poppies and making profit in the illicit drug markets of the world are. That profit fuels terrorism.

This is no NAMBLA. We can make allies of the farmers, put legal opiates into the world's medical system. Or we can burn the poppies, re-educate the farmers to grow wheat at 1/10th the profit and love America then wonder why it blows up in our face.
AKA Navy Joe   

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Glock Glockler

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 06:21:42 AM »
Sure there is. Execute dealers. Shoot smugglers. Quit playing around

Sorry but you're incorrect, China tried that and it failed miserably, as the dealers died and people still wanted drugs new dealers sprug up to take their place.  OTOH when they started executing all the users...

lonestarpriv

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 06:48:15 AM »
I think they need to confiscate the money made on these slave farmers and then distrubt the money to these farmers. They work really hard just to supply food for their families, then someone else makes all the money. It's like what was going on during Vietnam, just watch "The American Gangster"

lonestarpriv

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 07:12:27 AM »
Take the profits from the Taliban and give them to the farmers and help them set up farming operations with other crops.


French G.

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 07:46:50 AM »
So whatcha gonna do, seize the Taliban's Cayman Islands bank account? My guess is they don't have one. If we had the ability to seize their money we'd probably have the ability to seize all them. Then we could pop them in a giant detention center built by Halliburton. No wait, can't do that, those are for American NRA members.   rolleyes
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2008, 07:49:43 AM »
Wouldn't we be billions of dollars ahead on the GWoD and the GWoT if we simply paid the opium farmers NOT to produce poppy at the same rate they are currently paid to produce poppy?  Then, ALSO have them produce wheat/peas/rice/insert-pet-crop-here for sale on the open market?

The UN would be squealing less since more food would be on the open market, too.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2008, 07:52:40 AM »
Wouldn't we be billions of dollars ahead on the GWoD and the GWoT if we simply paid the opium farmers NOT to produce poppy at the same rate they are currently paid to produce poppy?  Then, ALSO have them produce wheat/peas/rice/insert-pet-crop-here for sale on the open market?

The UN would be squealing less since more food would be on the open market, too.

But but, that's not how you fight a GWOD/T!!!  You have to kill people and break things!

Chris

HankB

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2008, 08:12:47 AM »
PAYING the opium farmers not to grow their America-destined poison?

We've sure come a long way since "Millions For Defense, Not One Cent For Tribute!" was our stance . . .  sad
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2008, 08:28:37 AM »
It's likely a cheaper and better solution.

The drugs don't get produced.
The Taliban doesn't get the money.
The farmers don't lose the income they'd have otherwise.
FOOD is produced.

The $17bil doesn't have to be cold hard cash, it could be equipment, supplies, etc to make their new efforts successful.  Other than the ego issue of "paying tribute", it is probably more likely to succeed.  Or, we can continue our failed WOSD the old fashioned way...

Chris

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2008, 10:38:46 AM »
It's likely a cheaper and better solution.

The drugs don't get produced.
The Taliban doesn't get the money.
The farmers don't lose the income they'd have otherwise.
FOOD is produced.

The $17bil doesn't have to be cold hard cash, it could be equipment, supplies, etc to make their new efforts successful.  Other than the ego issue of "paying tribute", it is probably more likely to succeed.  Or, we can continue our failed WOSD the old fashioned way...

Chris

And we can THEN have Marines and Air Force go around breaking/killing things where poppy is grown after the program is in place.

It's just a big problem when 5 million (or whatever Afghaninstan's population is) people are 90%+ dependent on opiate production for a source of income.  And make piss-poor money doing it, the illicit profits going to traffickers and their ilk.

What else could grow in Afghanistan?  That could lead to a niche luxury product?  Corn/Wheat for alcohol is a no-no because of the fundamentalist Islam issues (although poppy is acceptable somehow to them  rolleyes).  Tobacco?  Would you smoke an Afghan cigar?  Probably wouldn't grow well up so high though.  Exotic hardwoods for trees?  Do they have any mineral resources like Iron/gems/copper?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2008, 10:57:20 AM »
Quote
Do they have any mineral resources like Iron/gems/copper?

Semi-precious stones used to be harvested in Afghanistan, but Soviets put an end to that.

There used also to be awesome Afghan carpets.
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De Selby

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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2008, 06:01:02 PM »
It's likely a cheaper and better solution.

The drugs don't get produced.
The Taliban doesn't get the money.
The farmers don't lose the income they'd have otherwise.
FOOD is produced.

The $17bil doesn't have to be cold hard cash, it could be equipment, supplies, etc to make their new efforts successful.  Other than the ego issue of "paying tribute", it is probably more likely to succeed.  Or, we can continue our failed WOSD the old fashioned way...

Chris

I think this is a rational plan in theory, but it assumes that the farmers and the majority of the population are not the backbone of the Taliban.  In one ethnic group, every dollar you give will go to Taliban activity regardless, so I don't think this policy will work.

You can't buy your way out of being a foreigner in a land where the locals absolutely hate foreigners with authority.
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Re: Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2008, 06:31:11 AM »
the taliban actually were doing an ok job at limiting poppies before 9/11/01...
they were also cutting off both arms of junkies in the cities.
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