Author Topic: Unpaid Taxes; Armored Vehicle Menaces Home; Man Opens Fire; Standoff Ensues:  (Read 19323 times)

MicroBalrog

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I may have had the various Founders confused.

At any rate, they were not of like mind on the issue.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Matthew Carberry

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The Constitution they collectively left is not "anti-tax", nor was the Declaration of Independence they signed.

That is what matters as far as their "will for the future" goes.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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"At the point at which someone identifies with and supports blatantly illegal activities carried out by another, they become an advocate for those actions. Unwillingness to act on those convictions is, in my view, hypocritical."


sometimes its just cowardice
we had a short 5 letter word for those folks growing up.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

freakazoid

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At the point at which someone identifies with and supports blatantly illegal activities carried out by another, they become an advocate for those actions. Unwillingness to act on those convictions is, in my view, hypocritical.

Or perhaps the person doesn't think it would be smart to act on those convictions at this certain point in time.

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Places such as circa-2005 New Orleans? Where the police simply left, joined the looters, or stole YOUR defense weapon at gunpoint?

They didn't steal, it is the law. And since it is the law you have to go through all the red tape to get it back. And you have to wait until the law is changed before you can actually get back your personal property. Until then you are just out of luck and defenseless, but hey, the law is the law. Actually defending yourself against an unjust law, only crazy people do that.

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He had the voluntary choice to not buy the property.  Thus your argument is rendered moot.

Thats not really much of a choice. It's either, buy a house and pay unjust taxes, or, live in the streets. Yeah, real fine choices you have there.

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"Damn you Rosa Parks."

Another less than brilliant non sequitor argument.

The man entered into the purchase agreement and all of its stipulations freely. All property owners are subject to property taxes -- not just property owners who are black or latino.

Attempting to equate this with discrimanatory laws passed for the sole reason of keeping one individual, or group of individuals, from obtaining the same rights in society is a non starter.

So did Rosa Parks, and all colored people. They had the choice not to get on the bus or choose to sit in the back, just like he had the choice not to buy the house.

So let me ask, do you think it was ok for people to still drink during prohibition?

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If you want to stay here, be prepared to ante up, pardner.

Thats right, continue to pay your protrec... er, tax money good upstanding citizen.

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She was arrested and then people saw that the law unjust and then it was changed.....see how that works.

Thats not how it worked, people rioted and physically fought it to get it changed. Thats how it worked.

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I think someone once said:
"Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's"

Now if you think Ceasar is taking too much, then you need to work so that Ceasar takes less. 

Thats not really the message.

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Oh, as for Rosa Parks.  She was willing to break the law and accept the consequences of doing so to demonstrate her resolve that the law in question was unConstitutional.

That is one tactic, but not a good one in my book. The .gov isn't going to change if you do not actually resist it. As long as you are still following the laws in the end it doesn't care.

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When the "law is an ass", honoring "the law" for its own sake is repulsive to a thinking person.

Couldn't of said it better myself, mostly because I am not good at expressing myself, Smiley

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She didn't refuse to leave her seat and shoot at the police coming to enforce the law.

And if she did I, and I was there, I would of been there cheering her on, if not helping. She would of had every right to do that.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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Matthew Carberry

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She would have been justified in killing police officers enforcing a law that could be, and in fact ended up being, overturned with legislative action?

A state/local law that simply barred her from sitting in a certain bus seat?

That rises to the level of a killing issue for you?

Really?

Remind me not to allow my shadow to accidentally block your sun on a beach. I'd probably be lucky to get away with the loss of a hand.  shocked
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Regolith

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They didn't steal, it is the law. And since it is the law you have to go through all the red tape to get it back. And you have to wait until the law is changed before you can actually get back your personal property. Until then you are just out of luck and defenseless, but hey, the law is the law. Actually defending yourself against an unjust law, only crazy people do that.

Uh, yes they did, chief.  The police had no constitutional authority to take those firearms during Katrina.  None. 
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

freakazoid

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She would have been justified in killing police officers enforcing a law that could be, and in fact ended up being, overturned with legislative action?

So your saying, don't fight back because it could be eventually overturned. Go tell that to the Jews and other freedom fighters during WWII. You don't know what the future holds, they didn't know that they were going to be shipped off to concentration camps. For all they knew it all could of been eventually overturned or Hitler might of divided that he no longer wanted to do those things. No sense in killing all of Hitlers pawns right? They were just following orders.

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A state/local law that simply barred her from sitting in a certain bus seat?

They have no right to do that. A right not exercised is a right lost. "Simply" barred her? There is nothing simple about it. It is no small thing! It is a gross violation of human right and dignity!

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Remind me not to allow my shadow to accidentally block your sun on a beach. I'd probably be lucky to get away with the loss of a hand.  shocked

Non sequitur.

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Uh, yes they did, chief.  The police had no constitutional authority to take those firearms during Katrina.  None.

But they still did it. Since when does the Constitution matter anymore when it comes to 2A rights? I believe that all anti-gun laws are unconstitutional, doesn't stop the .gov from making them anyways.

Would it of been ok to defend yourself and property from the people confiscating the peoples firearms after Katrina? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't just take no for an answer when they ask for your guns
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

cassandra and sara's daddy

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"Thats not how it worked, people rioted and physically fought it to get it changed. Thats how it worked."

really?  is that what it said on the history channel?  they stop mteaching american history?

It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

WeedWhacker

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She would have been justified in killing police officers enforcing a law that could be, and in fact ended up being, overturned with legislative action? A state/local law that simply barred her from sitting in a certain bus seat? That rises to the level of a killing issue for you?

Let's say a person sat in a public seat reserved for folks of a specific race. Law enforcement shows up to evict the person, but the person doesn't leave the seat. What does law enforcement do?

They initiate the use of force; it's the only tool they have. They'll use verbal threats, then escalate to either hands-on force or use chemicals or pain-compliance devices, and if the person still resists, lethal force is the last option. (Keep in mind who the aggressor is in cases where the law is a bad law - such examples are growing at a rate that seems exponential as of late.)

Is it wrong to use lethal force in defense against bad law and those enforcing bad law? Suprise! It's not even illegal, but more importantly, it's not any different than resisting any other violent felony, except that the felons have a whole lot of friends who'll be inclined to shoot first and ask questions later.

I find plenty of amusement in the fact that there are these bits of liberty-oriented stuff still stuck on the bottom of the legal behemoth's shoe (18 USC 241, in this case).


Quote from: freakazoid
Would it of been ok to defend yourself and property from the people confiscating the peoples firearms after Katrina? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't just take no for an answer when they ask for your guns

This example works at least as well as the other.
"Higher education" is often a euphemism for producers of fermented, homogenized minds.