Author Topic: New Composition Roof Needed (Read 3475 times)

Polishrifleman · « **on:** June 17, 2008, 07:51:16 PM »

I currently have a shake roof that needs replacement. I know nothing other than I don't want it to leak while I'm on this earth and everyone says you can't get good shakes anymore and they cost more too.

GAF and Certantied (sp) anyone know the difference? Is it a Ford Chevy thing or should I know more.

Thanks

Leatherneck · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2008, 05:43:41 AM »

Yeah, Ford vs. Chevy. Get the best (highest $$) architectural grade shingles you can buy (50-year warranty), make sure the roof deck is sound, re-flash all openings, put down 30-LB felt, and hope for the best.

TC

ilbob · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2008, 05:59:01 AM »

Quote from: Polishrifleman on June 17, 2008, 06:51:16 PM

I currently have a shake roof that needs replacement. I know nothing other than I don't want it to leak while I'm on this earth and everyone says you can't get good shakes anymore and they cost more too.

GAF and Certantied (sp) anyone know the difference? Is it a Ford Chevy thing or should I know more.

Thanks

Nothing really looks like a shake roof except a shake roof. These days they are pretty pricey.

I guess it depends on what you want. Asphalt shingles are perfectly serviceable. I am not convinced that there is any real benefit to the ones that offer the longer warranties. IMO, doing the work correctly, with good solid sheathing and felt paper underneath (and not having an old layer under the new layer) is more important than the most expensive shingles.

Some old houses with shake roofs did not have sheathing. Just horizontal wooden strips the shakes attached to. You may end up needing all new plywood under the new roof.

Make sure you have the shakes stripped off. Don't let someone con you into saving money by layering over them.

In colder climates, the ice and water barrier is a good idea, especially along the lower edges.

Azrael256 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2008, 06:28:41 AM »

Quote

Nothing really looks like a shake roof except a shake roof. These days they are pretty pricey.

Nothing burns like a shake roof, either. It might be worth it to find out if you get a homeowner's insurance discount for asphalt shingles.

ilbob · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2008, 07:33:45 AM »

Quote from: Polishrifleman on June 17, 2008, 06:51:16 PM

everyone says you can't get good shakes anymore and they cost more too.

everyone is wrong about getting good shakes. they are readily available, usually as special order, since they are not commonly used much anymore due to the cost. not like asphalt shingles where they are available at every lumber yard in quantity ready for pickup.

Sergeant Bob · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2008, 08:04:34 AM »

I did a bunch of research on home improvement forums (roofing contractors) into architectural shingles (GAF and Certainteed)and it's a toss up as to which is better. What did seem to be a trend with either was that it was a bit of a problem collecting on their warranties. A lot of conditions have to be met and then it can still be a hassle.

Ice guard for colder climes is usually code. If not, get it and make sure it extends at least 2 feet up from any heated outside wall.

Most roofers will tell you the weight of felt required is dependent more on the slope of the roof, to prevent tearing during installation than the desire to prevent leaks. The felt is more for the protection of the shingles as a vapor barrier than for protecting the roof. If your roof is not properly ventilated, thicker felt is not going to help much and will only result in unnecessary expense. Be sure to install ridge vents, they will extend the life of your roof.
If you are counting on felt to catch leaks which the shingles don't, you either need different shingles or a different roofer. If you absolutely feel you have to have 30 lb felt, I'm sure your contractor will be glad to accommodate you for an extra fee. Most reputable contractors will give you what you want, it's your money.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2008, 08:43:42 AM »

What you get depends on your area.

Around here the average life of a roof is 10 years. The baking west Texas sun, along with high winds and large hail, pretty much guarantee a roof replacement at least once a decade. Our insurance rates reflect it, too. All that to say that getting a 40 or 50 year roof is an exercise in futility 'round these parts. Yes you get an insurance discount, but not enought to offset the substantial additional cost of the roof.

As for shakes, yes they are still available. Good A-grade split shakes, if treated every few years and kept free of debris, will last many decades. Cheap shakes, the thin shaved kind, are a waste of money.

Around here a shake roof of any kind incurs a 20% increase in your insurance premium (more flammable than composition).

Brad

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2008, 09:02:30 AM »

standing seam metal for me this year

ilbob · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2008, 10:36:51 AM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 18, 2008, 08:02:30 AM

standing seam metal for me this year

I have come to the conclusion that such a roof is both attractive and functional. A little more pricey than asphalt. If I ever have to do another roof, I am going to give serious consideration to it.

Polishrifleman · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2008, 03:29:08 PM »

Thanks for the input guys. I am in Seattle so a lot of rain and moss not to hot not to cold. Old roof isn't sheeted so 1/2 inch CDX then new felt are part of the install, new flashing, moss gaurd, blah, blah, blah, and I lose interest in listening so I go to my web resources.

Balog · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2008, 03:34:29 PM »

What are the disadvantages of a metal roof?

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2008, 03:38:59 PM »

500-600 a square as opposed to 200 for shingles
but nice colors 50 plus year life and no bugs fire or rot
also sheds snow and ice well
i plan on laying 2 inches of foam then a second roof deck before i do the standing seam make attic more temp stable and keep house quiet. got a buddy with panel machine he'll run em off for me at cost

41magsnub · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2008, 03:54:02 PM »

The way we did the metal roofing on our cabin (Delta Rib) was sort of the hard way but we were pushed into it because of how not square or plumb the roof the roof is. It has a slight sag at the peak and was probably never square when it was built given it was made of lodgepole logs, basically a trapezoid with the top edge curved. We put horizontal 2x4's and then shimmed each 2x4 up until it was level which in some cases was over 4" towards the peak. It was a total bitch, we then put 2" foam in between the 2x4's and tacked down the roofing. The end result looks great and probably saved the building and for the first time we can actually heat the place in the winter.

It replaced fully 3 layers of asphalt rolled roofing. That much roofing was far too much weight and combined with the snow load threatened to collapse the roof.

It took 2 summers for 4 folks who had never done it before to finish up.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2008, 05:00:46 PM »

glad i wasn't there for that tearoff! heavy! got 16 sq on a ridge with my name on it right now
at least the roof will probably outlive you

K Frame · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2008, 07:45:29 PM »

Quote from: Balog on June 18, 2008, 02:34:29 PM

What are the disadvantages of a metal roof?

The only true disadvantage to a metal roof is initial cost. Depending on the type of metal, it might be a bit more than a high-end asphalt roof, or it might be many times more expensive.

Advantages, though, are pretty much indefinite life. As long as they're cared for properly and painted regularly, a terne roof (tinned steel) doesn't really have a life expectancy.

Same with copper.

The house I grew up in had a terne roof. As long as we kept after the valleys and flashing and made sure any popped nails were reset and the roof was painted, it was gold. It was originally installed in the 1920s. Unfortunately, the people who bought it after my parents moved were apparently sold a bill of goods and the house now sports a very ugly asphalt shingle roof. I can't even imagine how many squares it took to cover that roof.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2008, 08:18:04 PM »

copper iso 1000 a square last years price house in warrenton had 100 sq including garage

Balog · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2008, 05:16:41 AM »

Hmm, how do they compare maintenance-wise? Mike listed several things that need to be done to keep a metal roof in good shape. Is that more or less than other roof types?

K Frame · « **Reply #17 on:** June 19, 2008, 06:05:17 AM »

Copper is essentially maintenance free.

The green layer that forms over the face of the copper is amazingly good at protecting the roof long-term. No painting necessary for copper, but the initial cost, especially today, is just insane.

And, until you get that beautiful patina built up, anywhere from 3 to 10 years, it looks like hell. Some companies offer chemical treatments that give the patina a kick start. How effective they are I don't know.

Of course, you still need to attend to the flashing, any fasteners there might be, and valleys.

That's no different than a shingle roof, actually. If you neglect the valleys on a shingle roof, you will eventually have leaks.

MillCreek · « **Reply #18 on:** June 19, 2008, 08:34:00 AM »

On a metal roof, I have always wondered if you could hear the rain, and it would be subject to hail damage? I see a lot of metal roofs on houses in snowy areas on the other side of the Cascades. The snow usually just slides right off if the roof is pitched enough.

K Frame · « **Reply #19 on:** June 19, 2008, 08:59:29 AM »

Yes, you can hear the rain on a metal roof.

How much you hear it depends on how the roof is constructed.

If it's metal over a solid sheathing, you're not going to hear it nearly as much as if it's over a non sheathed roof.

If you have a modern metal roof with insulation panels under it, you probably won't hear it at all.

Even if you do hear it, chances are it's not going to sound like rain on a tin can. Normally that only happens when there's very little support for the metal panels.

Any roof is subject to hail damage, but metal roofs are probably pretty impervious to critical damage.

Several years ago we had a horrible hail storm in Northern Virginia. Several friends and coworkers had severe damage to composition and shake roofs. My friend Herb's house was pretty much stripped of his cedar shakes.

Hail damage to a metal roof would probably be only dents, popped fasteners, and possibly damage to valleys.

As for snow, and especially ice, you really do NOT want it to just slide right off. Ice eagles (clips that keep ice and snow pack from sliding off) are a critical part of a metal roof system. If you have a large snow or ice pack begin to move all at once it can kill someone underneath it, severely damage the house, or rip the spouting right off.

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Author Topic: New Composition Roof Needed (Read 3475 times)