Uniform question for any current or prior U.S. Army people

[jrfoxx]

Recently joined the Oregon Sate Defense Force (think Natl. Guard without the weapons), and beig a Navy guy, this Army stuff (we do everything the Army way, including uniforms) is new to me, and is fairly differnt. I have looked thru several revisions of AR 670-1 Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia, and have a question. We are using the old woodland BDU (utility) uniform for the time being at least, until enough ACU's are acquired (or budget is about zero, so everything is donated, bought on the super-cheap, or paid out of pocket by individuals), and I cant seem to find any detail on the exact location of where unit/branch patches (our OSDF patch) go on the shirt and jacket sleeves. I can see from AR 670-1, and pics online, that they go on the left sleeve, bo no detail on exactly where. It looks, and seems like they are centered right and left on the arm (same as Navy, and is the logical place anyways), and go about 4" down from the horizontal shoulder seam, but want to find out if that is actually correct, and if anyone knows another manual besides AR 670-1 to explain the uniform stuff a little better.

I can always call the Lt. Col, but would rather not bug him at work, (and possibly come off as being a bit dense if it's obvious and I'm just missing it), and since I work nights, and him days, getting a hold of him can be a little tricky sometimes. I want to get them pinned in place so I can drop them off to get sewn on, as we have a drill in 2 weeks.So, am I correct that it goes on the left sleeve, 4 inches down from the shoulder seam? Also, subdued, reverse U.S. flag is right sleeve, 1/8th inch below the shoulder seam, correct? 99% sure thats right, but just double checking....
Darn ground pounders need to make things cearer for us squids. Not one mention of the head being down the 1st ladder, through the P-way on the port side, just past the scuttlebutt on the starboard bulkhead, in the Foc's'l.

Patch looks like this, if it helps any. It is subdued, not full color, and is about 2.5-3" tall.
http://thumb4.webshots.net/t/48/48/5/92/10/362959210GpFsDO_th.jpg

Figured someone here would know.I managed to figure everything else out from pics, or AR 670-1 (which IMHO, could be a little more detailed on a lot of stuff)

[Balog]

Oregon state defense force? Is that an official subset of the US Army, or just a local program aping the real army?

[jrfoxx]

It is the official state "millitia" as it were, under the control of the Governor of Oregon, Adjunct General, and the Oregon Militray Dept. Just like the Nat. Guard, but we CANNOT be put under federal control, or be used outside of Oregon.We do mainly emergency/disaster relief work. It's not a bunch of wanna-be's, or a private millitia. We are chartered by state law, and are 100% legit and official.You have to be prior service, be sworn in, get a background check,do the usual enlistment paperwork stuff, etc.Almost all states have a State Defense Force, but many exist only on paper for the most part, or are essentially inactive. Other's like us and California, are VERY active, and called up by the Governor fairly often for floods, fires, etc.

We train with, and work directly with, the National guard in Oregon (and Fema, DHS, "real" Army, etc, if/when they are also working the same incident)

Here's our link:
http://orsdf.org/

[Devonai]

It's been awhile since I've had to sew patches onto BDUs (ACU: The Lazy Man's Uniform), but as a former member of the Massachusetts State Guard I'd like to welcome you into the service of the state-level military.

One thing: It's the Adjutant General, or AG.  You will also sometimes hear him referred to as "TAG," or in your case, "TAGOR (The Adjutant General of Oregon).  Here in CT he's a two-star, but a one-star can fill that role.

Prior service is mandatory?  It seems like that would unnecessarily limit your already scant pool of applicants.  In the MSG we were running about 50% prior service membership at any given time, which I thought was good for teaching the Noobs a thing or two.

I liked what the MSG did so much that when things slowed down for us, I joined the National Guard instead.  Up until that point we were chiefly providing OPFOR (OPposing FORce) for Massachusetts National Guard Infantry companies.  Lots of running around in the woods and firing blanks at each other.  Fun times.

[jrfoxx]

Thanks. Yeah, Adjutant, not sure why I screwed that up. Wasnt really paying attention I guess.

As for the prior service thing, yes, they do make it mandatory. It can be from any branch, including Nat. Guard and Coast guard, and reserves count too, doesnt have to have been active duty.Does seem like it would limit participation a bit, but the thinking may be it helps weed out the wanna-be's, anti-govt private militia types, and saves them a little hassle n terms of training people on doing things the "military way", since al would have some experiance with it already.From what I gather, most units are pretty close to thier desired minimum personell goals, so it must not be hurting them too much, but I sure it does make it a little harder.

We do a fair bit of OPFOR with the guard here too, I gather. Last year we played the role of civillians, insurgents, etc in a mock village, for the Guard to train before heading off to Iraq/Afghanistan. I'm told they came back and were wuite thankful for the training, and plan to do it regularly. I also hear the were a little annoyed with a couple of our "villagers" stealing thier vehicles when they left them unattended to patrol, but learned some lessons from it.

Reason I did ths, VS. Nat. Guard is due to knee problems from the Navy (the reason I had to get out), so I do know how well I could serve in the Guard due to that, and I'm not super keen on being deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan and getting shot at or blown up, or having to do it to others, I'm allergic to lead delivered at high speeds. 

Also, wife has a lot of medical issues that cause me to need to be around in case of problems, and not away for 6+ months on end. If it werent for that, and my knees, I would have seriously considered it though.

I do plan on trying to get the official word on my uniform questions, just to be safe, in case we do something a little different from the Army for some reason (I gather not though), but figured it doesnt hurt to ask, so I can at least make an attempt at it before training on the 19th, if I cant get ahold of the Lt. Col in time to get them sewn on. This is not a military town at all, so there are only a couple places to sew them, and I dont know how long thier wait time is, so would rather make an honest attempt to get them sewn on, and back to me for training, rather than show up without them at all, or end up not having the uniforma back, and having to miss training.I'm sure it's not a huge issue, but figure it's worth a shot, and worst case, it would spark a discussion on the milirtay, state defense forces, etc that might add a little entertainment or interesting info for us here.

[Scout26]

IIRC, the SSI (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia) is sewn on the BDU's centered on the left sleeve and 1/4" down from the seam of the shoulder.

HTH

[jrfoxx]

SSI (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia)

I think this is a big part of my issue here.AR 670-1 has drawings to help explain most of the uniform stuff, but nothing for this, so I think my lack of knowing Army terminology is the issue. My only experiance with Army lingo is years of MASH re-runs, so what litle I do know, half of it is outdated at best, or just plain wrong, most likely.

That darn Klinger was a character though.Wonder if my Lt.Col would be amused if I wore a dress to formation.....

I suspect not.It would solve my uniform issue though.....

 

[taurusowner]

If you plan on switching uniforms, get some version of MARPAT.  The ACU color scheme sucks, as does the velcro.  The only good things about it are the digital pattern and the new pocket placements on the trousers and jacket. The Marine Corps uniforms have the digital pattern and pockets, but keep the sew on tabs and much better woodland and desert colors.

[jrfoxx]

unfortunately, I get NO say in what uniform the switch to, and I was told it will be the standard Army ACU's, but who knows.They may not even switch, or may go with something besides the ACU, etc. The Lt.Col only mentioned it briefly, and he doesnt make the decision either.for all I know, it's just a rumor he heard.

I personally like the look of the old woodland BDU's better than any of the new stuff, but it isnt about looks for the pointy end of the spear guys, for them, what works best is most important.For us, not so much, as the S would have to have seriously hit the fan for them to start passing out guns and telling us who to point them at, so I'd be happy if they didnt switch us at all.

[wmenorr67]

what works best is most important

Then they need to stay away from ACU's

[Phantom Warrior]

AR 670-1
Paragraph 28-16 Should Sleeve Insignia-current organization
e. How worn
(1) Non-subdued (see following comment) (page 238)

All personnel will wear the...SSI of their current organization centered on the left sleeve, 1/2 inch below the shoulder seam...

The editing is because 28-16e(1) actually covers the Army green uniform (Class As) and paragraph (2) just says "do it the same way on BDUs."

AR 670-1
Paragraph 28-18 Wear of full-color U.S. flag cloth replica
c. How worn
(1) (page 240)

...the full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is sewn 1/2 inch below the right shoulder seam of the temperate...BDU...

Does that answer all of your questions?  I spent a lot of time in 670-1 while I was studying for the board and most of the answers you might look for can be found in there.

P.S.  I heartily concur that ACUs suck.

[jrfoxx]

Thank you Phantom Warrior. Not sure how I missed it, but like I said, It was probly the mention of SSI that threw me off a bit, not knwoing exactly what it was, and if that was the same as my patch.Also, the referance to the Class A's showing up in the 1st line likely casued me to not read further, since I was looking for BDU's.for the flag, not sure where I got 1/8th from. bad memory when I was typing, or maybe was thinking of something else.Much appreciated.I'll have to re-read AR 670-1 again, even slower, to try to help remember some of this (man, learning this stuff is SO much easier in boot camp when you are hungry, sleep deprived, sore, and listening to people screaming at everyone nons-stop 24hrs a day, for 12 weeks. I guess this proves that teaching method works.)