45 ACP Short Barrel Ammo

[41magsnub]

What is the definition of "short barrel" in 45 ACP land?  3"  4"?

[SADShooter]

I'll contend that it's 3.5" or less in determining ammo characteristics/effectiveness. Service/standard barrel length would start at 4". Some 1911 purists will tell you anything under 5" is an abomination.

[41magsnub]

Thanks, I was just eyeballing the "short barrel" Speer stuff for my mid sized 4" m&p45 as a possible go to round for in town.  I'll stick with the conventional 230gr gold dots then.

[Ben]

Thanks, I was just eyeballing the "short barrel" Speer stuff for my mid sized 4" m&p45 as a possible go to round for in town.  I'll stick with the conventional 230gr gold dots then.

Interesting. I didn't even know the made "short barrel ACP" rounds. What's the benefit supposed to be?

[41magsnub]

huh..  they use a 4" barrel for testing the speer short barrel 45 ACP.  Maybe I will give a box a try, if it is lower flash it might have a benefit.

[41magsnub]

My speer reloading manual is no help, they have a different bullet for the short barrel version that has a .05 greater ballistic coefficient but is otherwise identical and shares the same load table.  I wonder if the only difference is the bullet itself which is more likely to open up at a lower velocity.

[French G.]

I own one non 5" .45, but heresy is averted, it's a wheel. That is a 3" 325 and my default ammo has been 185gr Golden saber, I figure the light bullet will attain more useful velocity in that time.

[Lennyjoe]

I tend to stick with 185gr bullets for .45's under 4" for the added velocity. 

I like 200gr Speer Gold Dots out of my Springfield XD. 

[PTK]

The "regular" 230gr Speer GDHP ammo in 45acp seemed to work just fine, velocity-wise, from my old 2.75" barrel (including chamber) derringer, my old 4" XD45, and my uncle's 5" 1911. The FPS was ~150 less in the 2.75" barrel, but the projectile still penetrated and expanded just fine. I wouldn't worry about it one whit. :)


On the off-chance that you DO want to make sure, I can whip up some gel, bring my chronograph, and test the ammo in your gun when I come out to Missoula.

[roo_ster]

Given the usual velocity drop-off in a short bbl, hardball is a viable option.

[PTK]

roo_ster.... did you even read what I posted?


Here's how that just went:

Me: "Yep, Speer GDHP 230gr is fine, still penetrates and expands from a short barrel, even down to a 2.75" barrel."
You: "Since short barrels make velocity low, FMJ is a good option."

[roo_ster]

roo_ster.... did you even read what I posted?


Here's how that just went:

Me: "Yep, Speer GDHP 230gr is fine, still penetrates and expands from a short barrel, even down to a 2.75" barrel."
You: "Since short barrels make velocity low, FMJ is a good option."

Yes, I did. 

But, since you are neither Jesus nor one of His Apostles, I don't regard it as Gospel and discount accordingly.

Also, not everybody owns your old derringer and assuming similar performance from other firearms is not the way I'd bet.

[sanglant]

it all comes down to powder speed. but if you're not loading your own, good luck knowing the type of powder, and if it's the same for the next lot.

[PTK]

Yes, I did. 

But, since you are neither Jesus nor one of His Apostles, I don't regard it as Gospel and discount accordingly.

Also, not everybody owns your old derringer and assuming similar performance from other firearms is not the way I'd bet.

True enough. :)

Just offering my opinion, my experience, my chrono/gel results, NONE of which should be treated as Gospel, as you noted. I was in a bad mood earlier, I apologize. I've got to take a few days and not post until I'm in a better mood!

[41magsnub]

On the off-chance that you DO want to make sure, I can whip up some gel, bring my chronograph, and test the ammo in your gun when I come out to Missoula.

That would be fun, we could figure out some of the more obscure combinations of various calibers and guns which between the two of us we could surely come up with.  Especially considering I have this nice reloading press sitting here!

[roo_ster]

All:
In the interests of properly discerning double entendres, I would like to point out that "I can whip up some gel" in another context might lead a reader to the wrong conclusion about Mr. PTK's intensions. 

PTK:

0. It'll take more than that to get me butthurt.  IOW, I took no offense.  Start maligning my dogs, though, and it'll get ugly...

1. I like that GD load, but many semiautos don't like trncated cone shaped HPs, feed wise.

2. My Taurus 651 snubby also loses little velocity relative to 4" bbl revos.  You derringver and my 651 are exceptions, in my experience.

3. I am not a Jeff Cooper "they all fall to hardball" hardball advocate.  Hard to argue with its feed reliability, though, and .45 hardball looks likethe most effective fmj choice, lookikng at the jello and from the more fuzzy field effectiveness demonstrations.  For my part, .45 harbll is the only fmj I have no reservations packing as a social load-usually until I can prove a hp load's reliability.

4.  What is the mass of your derringer?  How is the recoil?

[Hawkmoon]

My speer reloading manual is no help, they have a different bullet for the short barrel version that has a .05 greater ballistic coefficient but is otherwise identical and shares the same load table.  I wonder if the only difference is the bullet itself which is more likely to open up at a lower velocity.

If they share the same load data, that's probably the case. I thought the "short barrel" ammo also used a faster powder so that more of it would burn (thus producing useful pressure/energy) while the bullet is still in the barrel.

Shooting "regular" ammo out of an Officers ACP 1911 (3-1/2" barrel), I found I had to move my chronograph five feet farther away from the firing line than where I usually set it (with a 5" 1911) because there was so much unburned powder and "stuff" being emitted that it confused the sensors and I was getting a lot of "ERR" readings.