Author Topic: 'Genderist' restrooms...  (Read 26101 times)

Kwelz

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2008, 11:40:41 AM »
You realizer there are women Pervs as well that would attack little girls. Just because Male Predators get all the news does not mean there are not almost as many female predators. 

And going by your argument I should not put your comfort in carrying a firearm over the safety of others.  Afterall we should not trust people so you should not be trusted with a firearm. 



makattak

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #76 on: October 07, 2008, 11:54:45 AM »
You realizer there are women Pervs as well that would attack little girls. Just because Male Predators get all the news does not mean there are not almost as many female predators. 

Unfounded assertion. Your statistics?

Edit: I will continue: Your scenario is still illogical. There are also male predators interested in little boys and females interested in little boys. Creating a situation where you put perverts in greater contact with all those possibilities LOGICALLY means the incident of perversion and molestation will increase.

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And going by your argument I should not put your comfort in carrying a firearm over the safety of others.  Afterall we should not trust people so you should not be trusted with a firearm. 


Straw man. I choose not to play with your illogical analogy.

Edit: Ok, I'll still respond despite your foolishness. A firearm is not kept for comfort anymore than a parachute is kept for comfort. If I'm on a plane and wearing a parachute, I'm not doing it cause I think I'll have a more comfortable flight that way.

A trans- (fill in the blank) is not in danger of their life because they can't go to the opposite sex bathroom. They have no basic human right to pee with the opposite sex.

If they like that sort of thing, they can go find somewhere that is being promoted.

Where exactly are the basic rights of "life, liberty, and property" infringed when some guy can't go peepee with the girls? Is the freedom to pee with girls a basic human right?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 12:04:45 PM by makattak »
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Hawkmoon

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2008, 12:07:04 PM »
All this begs the question. The plumbing code that is used almost everywhere in the U.S. specifically requires separate facilities for men and women, except in certain very small occupancies where a single unisex toilet room is allowed. Sociological arguments aside, mass unisex toilet rooms aren't going to happen unless and until the codes (which generally have the force of law, as adopted regulations) are changed to allow it. Since the building codes are written by building inspectors, who are predominately fairly conservative (socially, not necessarily politically) ... I don't see that happening within the next several decades, if ever.
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Kwelz

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #78 on: October 07, 2008, 12:27:18 PM »
Mak I would argue that you are being illogical and basing your arguments on unfounded fears that there is a Perv in every shadow.  Where do you have any statistics to back up your arguments?  (Hint there are none)

Studies have shown that there are a far larger number of Female Sex offenders than previously thought.  The difference is more social than anything else.  A teenage boy doing something with an older woman is a stud, a teenage female doing something with an older man is a victim.  The Double-standard is a large part of why the numbers have been historically skewed. 

All that aside however you have failed to show how a Unisex Bathroom will in any way cause more people to be victimized by these sickos. 

MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2008, 12:53:25 PM »
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Edit: Ok, I'll still respond despite your foolishness. A firearm is not kept for comfort anymore than a parachute is kept for comfort. If I'm on a plane and wearing a parachute, I'm not doing it cause I think I'll have a more comfortable flight that way.

Eh? People keep one, maybe  two, four guns at most for self-defense. Above that, it's a hobby. You have a right to your hobbies.

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Where exactly are the basic rights of "life, liberty, and property" infringed when some guy can't go peepee with the girls?

In my mind, a potential restaurant owner has the right to establish a toilet with whatever seat arrangement he chooses. I don't know about you, but I'm for property rights.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2008, 12:55:15 PM »
How does one peek 'around' a door? Does the term 'door' means something new in America?

Restroom doors have a fairly large gap in between the door and the wall of the stall.

This is the most bizarre thing I've ever heard. Why would anybody even go into a stall like this?

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2008, 01:10:54 PM »
How does one peek 'around' a door? Does the term 'door' means something new in America?

Restroom doors have a fairly large gap in between the door and the wall of the stall.

This is the most bizarre thing I've ever heard. Why would anybody even go into a stall like this?

Because that's how bathrooms are built here.  Stalls are formed by partition panels that are bolted together.  The panels tend to have 1/4 inch or so of gap between them.  There's also about 12" of gap at the floor, and the panels only rise to a height of about 6 feet.  It's possible to peek through the cracks between the panels and see inside.  It's also possible to look underneath the panels, or over the top of them if you're tall enough.

As a matter of courtesy, everybody is very careful not to look through the gaps.  In fact, everybody goes out of their way to not look like they're looking through the gaps.

This why pervs in a public bathroom can be such a problem.  They don't abide by the social convention to not try to see into stalls. 

Typical public bathroom stall partitions:
http://www.abspartitions.com/betoiletpartitions.htm
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 01:18:50 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

makattak

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2008, 01:12:09 PM »
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Edit: Ok, I'll still respond despite your foolishness. A firearm is not kept for comfort anymore than a parachute is kept for comfort. If I'm on a plane and wearing a parachute, I'm not doing it cause I think I'll have a more comfortable flight that way.

Eh? People keep one, maybe  two, four guns at most for self-defense. Above that, it's a hobby. You have a right to your hobbies.

Quote
Where exactly are the basic rights of "life, liberty, and property" infringed when some guy can't go peepee with the girls?

In my mind, a potential restaurant owner has the right to establish a toilet with whatever seat arrangement he chooses. I don't know about you, but I'm for property rights.

You will note, I suggested that they go to places that cater to such desires.  I'm for property rights as well. As such, I have no desire to frequent a place that enforces a mixed-sex bathroom.

I'm even more for federalism- people in Boston can screw up Boston as much as they want just as long as I don't have to go along with their ill-conceived notions (for example).

Also, on your note about bathroom stalls: nearly all public restrooms in the United States are that way. Perhaps this is a cultural difference that is leading to greater disagreement?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2008, 01:20:43 PM »
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Also, on your note about bathroom stalls: nearly all public restrooms in the United States are that way.

This is bizarre. I've never even seen such a stall on any TV series set in America - and there's even been two US TV shows where the plot was centered around notes left on bathroom doors.

(I watch US shows obssessively, and what I don't watch out of my free will, I watch during work - I translate a lot of US shows).

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You will note, I suggested that they go to places that cater to such desires.  I'm for property rights as well. As such, I have no desire to frequent a place that enforces a mixed-sex bathroom.

Let it be stated,  I do not care either way, as to where I go. I merely think that the notion that places that do it are at some special danger from perverts and general 'tards is somehow... unfounded.
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Firethorn

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #84 on: October 07, 2008, 01:21:40 PM »
Studies have shown that there are a far larger number of Female Sex offenders than previously thought.  The difference is more social than anything else.

Just look at all the recent cases about female teachers screwing their high school aged students, occasionally middle school.

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A teenage boy doing something with an older woman is a stud, a teenage female doing something with an older man is a victim.  The Double-standard is a large part of why the numbers have been historically skewed. 

Agreed.  I've seen studies that show female on male rape happens, but has the worst reporting percentage.  Male on female has the best.  Sexual harrasment claims are difficult to prosecute.  The man is simply expected to take it, in many cases.

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All that aside however you have failed to show how a Unisex Bathroom will in any way cause more people to be victimized by these sickos.

If anything, the greater average occupancy, by both sexes, of a properly set up multiple user restroom/bathroom would tend to prevent issues, as there'll be more witnesses around for any hijinks.

You also don't have the issue with what to do if a family/single occupancy bathroom isn't available and mommy is there with her pre-teen but potty trained son, or daddy and his daughter.

Quote from: MicroBalrog
This is the most bizarre thing I've ever heard. Why would anybody even go into a stall like this?

Because there's no other option and you have to go?  Generally I see this sort of stuff in older restrooms more - cheap panels, a door that's come out of trim a bit, a gap between the door and the rest of the panel system because of the hinges.

Basically, you can't see anything unless you stick your face into the crack.

Example


See the strips on either side of the door?  They could get away with that with single sex bathrooms, but not if they combined.  I imagine the 6" gap is to assist with cleaning - a mop will easily overlap while you're cleaning the place. 

BTW - the picture is the 'notorious' one Larry Craig got arrested in.  And they're installing bigger dividers that go further down.

Which is what I'd do for any renovations to multiple sex bathrooms.  Start lower, such that even a foot fetishist would have to have his head on the ground to see anything.  Go higher.  Put lips on the doors to block those cracks.  I'd also add a 'changing area' without a toilet in it with a door, seat, and coat hook for changing clothes and such.  Of course, I've wanted those for years.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 01:28:01 PM by Firethorn »

MicroBalrog

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2008, 01:24:29 PM »
Oh. These. Yes, I've seen  some of these, but they're rare. More and more, places here go with actual walls between the various stalls, or at least fully-enclosed cubicles.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Kwelz

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2008, 01:44:38 PM »
makattak I detect a a lot of Us Vs. Them in your posting.  Not to bet to much off track but I get the feeling that a lot of your feelings come from a Homophobic attitude or at least a disdain for anyone that challenges your social norm.  That is your Prerogative but I stand by saying that it is none of your Business what people do in thier bedroom and it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Firethorn

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2008, 01:47:16 PM »
Oh. These. Yes, I've seen  some of these, but they're rare. More and more, places here go with actual walls between the various stalls, or at least fully-enclosed cubicles.

In my area, they're not so rare, and were installed in the newly renovated restrooms in the mall a couple years ago.  The one business with actual walls between the stalls feels like the restroom was actually built for the panels (a whole 1" or so thick), vs the 6" or so the walls end up taking(4" framing, another 3/4" for the drywall on either side, 1/4" for the tile).  They feel cramped.  6" of space can add up quickly.

As for the plumbing code - dig into it you can often find exceptions, and in my experience you can do a lot of things if you don't bother asking for a permit.  For example - who'd say anything if we just stuck unisex 'bathroom' signs on both our loos?  We only have two, and like I said, we have a massive imbalance of the sexes.  There's a lot of times that the men's is being used already, and I'd be lying if I said that the women's didn't get used by the men.

Of course, I wonder how many perverts would be frustrated if places started going to unisex restrooms - but taking serious anti-pervert measures like full length wall panels and doors without visual gaps.

makattak

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2008, 01:53:35 PM »
makattak I detect a a lot of Us Vs. Them in your posting.  Not to bet to much off track but I get the feeling that a lot of your feelings come from a Homophobic attitude or at least a disdain for anyone that challenges your social norm.  That is your Prerogative but I stand by saying that it is none of your Business what people do in thier bedroom and it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Ah yes, if I do not wish to give my blessing to gay couples, I must be homophobic. (Note: Faulty argument- name calling)

What they do in their bedroom is their own business. How they dress is their own business. What they do in a private bathroom is their own business.

What is done in a public bathroom, however, becomes my business (if I am among those using it). Forcing me to accept men in the bathroom with my fiancee or with children is no longer their own business.

There is a point of "live and let live." Then there is the point of "I don't care how you feel about it, we're forcing our preferences upon you, you ignorant hick."
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

roo_ster

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #89 on: October 07, 2008, 02:11:56 PM »
Oh. These. Yes, I've seen  some of these, but they're rare. More and more, places here go with actual walls between the various stalls, or at least fully-enclosed cubicles.

They are the rule, rather than the exception 'round here.  Or like the previous image.
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roo_ster

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Kwelz

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #90 on: October 07, 2008, 02:13:06 PM »
That argument goes both ways however.  Where does it become you forcing your views upon them?

roo_ster

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #91 on: October 07, 2008, 02:18:33 PM »
makattak I detect a a lot of Us Vs. Them in your posting.  Not to bet to much off track but I get the feeling that a lot of your feelings come from a Homophobic attitude or at least a disdain for anyone that challenges your social norm.  That is your Prerogative but I stand by saying that it is none of your Business what people do in thier bedroom and it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Hey, nice playing of the race gay card.






BTW, this is not occurring in people's bedrooms, George Michael.
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roo_ster

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Kwelz

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #92 on: October 07, 2008, 02:29:31 PM »
I would have to disagree and say that his repeated use of the term "The Homos" brought the gay card into it long before I mentioned it and is in fact what prompted my posting. 

Manedwolf

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2008, 02:33:45 PM »
I would have to disagree and say that his repeated use of the term "The Homos" brought the gay card into it long before I mentioned it and is in fact what prompted my posting. 

You know what? Some of us don't like the gay lifestyle being shoved into everyone's faces at every possible juncture.

I don't like brussels sprouts, either, but I am not "phobic" of them. Not liking something doesn't mean you're afraid if it, it can mean you don't LIKE it.

DEAL.

makattak

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #94 on: October 07, 2008, 02:39:59 PM »
I would have to disagree and say that his repeated use of the term "The Homos" brought the gay card into it long before I mentioned it and is in fact what prompted my posting. 

Really? I had to go back and check to be sure because I was surprised to be accused of this as I was fairly certain I had not used that term (since I don't use that term in my normal speech patterns).

Perhaps you could point me to my post where I used it just once? (As you said "repeated")

Also, jfruser, that was hilarious.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Gewehr98

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Re: 'Genderist' restrooms...
« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2008, 02:41:06 PM »
Well, that was interesting, wasn't it?

Now we're calling each other Homophobes.

But we're not going that direction, because this thread's done - it will devolve no further.

"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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