Author Topic: Rifle question  (Read 1754 times)

MicroBalrog

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Rifle question
« on: December 13, 2008, 10:05:08 PM »
So, as some of you know, my rifle sk1llz are highly limited due to living in a country where I can't own any guns.

I can shoot to 50 meters and hit a head/shoulders cut-out target with an M16A1 rifle with open-sights. I still remember some of the basic Krav Maga stuff the Army taught so I can use it as a sort of technologically-advanced club.

However, when watching footage from those Greek riots it hit me that I've not been trained to deal with any target that moves.

I know that with shotguns, the easiest way to train on moving targets is to do clay pigeon shooting.

What is the best way to train on moving targets with a rifle, apart from hunting of course?
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Zed

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 10:09:18 PM »
What is the best way to train on moving targets with a rifle, apart from hunting of course?

Move to the USA? =D

Get some glass bottles (or fill some plastic ones with dirt/sand, Tie them to some fairly strong string/twine then to a low hanging branch of a tree, get them swinging, open fire.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. (If you would have peace, prepare for war.)

Manedwolf

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 10:20:50 PM »
Move to the USA? =D

Get some glass bottles (or fill some plastic ones with dirt/sand, Tie them to some fairly strong string/twine then to a low hanging branch of a tree, get them swinging, open fire.

To add to that, you can use the principle of a pulley to start it swinging from the place you're shooting from. Curve the string around one tree or post, so that when you pull on the string, it pulls the object sideways, let go of the string, it'll swing back and forth. Some ranges also have target stands that bowling pins are hung on lines from. Bowling pins make good targets, because they don't break from just a few hits.

And, of course, do this sort of thing in front of a berm of some kind.

Oh, and glass isn't good. It makes a mess, and someone has to clean it up, or people can get cut. Broken glass is evil. Most ranges will not allow glass. 2-liter bottles filled with water are fun. On a "home range", this is good to do with .22LR.

Professional training ranges (SIG here is one) have all the stuff like targets on tracks, plus an instructor. That might be the best bet, because it's easier to learn than to have to unlearn something incorrect you've been repeating. :)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 10:57:43 PM by Manedwolf »

ArfinGreebly

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2008, 11:20:41 PM »
Not glass.

Any plastic jug -- especially with some kind of handle -- filled with water (or mostly filled) will respond as a reactive target if hit with an energetic bullet.

They didn't react much for me when hit by .22LR or 9mm rounds, but .223 and up, they made quite a splash.


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AJ Dual

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2008, 12:30:16 AM »
Shotgun wing shooting, or trap, skeet, or sporting clays will be of little use for rifle shooting at moving targets. The only real application where shotgun target shooting was arieal gunnery in WWII, training bomber, and anti-aircraft crews to shoot their defensive MG's and cannons at flying aircraft, and learn the principles of lead.

And in that case, they had a steady supply of tracer ammo to help them. And the distances and speeds were great enough as compared to bullet velocities that lead matters.

And clay pigeons and birds generally fly faster than people on foot can move. And average shotgun pellet velocities are about half to a third of most centerfire rifle ammo.

When dealing with moving people on the ground, lead can become a factor, but generally at greater distances, like a sniper situation, and then you ought to know how to estimate and calculate your hold for such shots. (Here some kinds of longer range big game hunting might help.) Of course, in most places in the U.S., shooting people at that distance, no matter what the provocation is going to put you in legal hot-water, unless it's total anarchy, or a civil war here etc.

With your mention of the Greek riots, I'm guessing you're thinking more of a fluid defensive situation. A bit of lead can help, but at urban distances, or close combat, lead for bullet flight vs. movement of a target on foot is not really a factor. What you're trying to lead is YOU. You're leading not to get bullet and target vectors to intersect, but to get ahead of your reaction time.

As others mentioned, the professional schools are open to civilians, such as Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Valhalla, Blackwater, SIG, and others have rifle/carbine classes with "Hogan's Alley" type moving targets, simulated buildings, windows, and doors.

There's not much in the way of moving targets, (but USPSA (IPSC) and IPDA, and "Three Gun" matches (Rifle/Carbine, Shotgun, and pistol) have you doing lots of running, moving, and shooting from and around cover at multiple targets. And sometimes there are targets that need to be shot in order to release or expose others, or one that swings back and forth.

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2008, 12:33:12 AM »
I don't think he wants to learn how to lead a target with a rifle.  I think he wants to learn or practice aiming at moving targets.

The only moving target I've shot at with a rifle was an old wheel rim.  We'd set it to rolling down a hill, and try to knock it over from the side.  I'm not sure how that compares to other forms of moving target practice, but it sure was fun.

Manedwolf

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2008, 12:39:04 AM »
Oh, yes, tracers are good for seeing how close you're getting or how badly you're missing, just try to keep those to dirt areas. Tracers WILL start grass fires. Not may. WILL. :lol:

/not that I know anything about that

Quote
With your mention of the Greek riots, I'm guessing you're thinking more of a fluid defensive situation. A bit of lead can help, but at urban distances, or close combat, lead for bullet flight vs. movement of a target on foot is not really a factor. What you're trying to lead is YOU. You're leading not to get bullet and target vectors to intersect, but to get ahead of your reaction time.

That's also a good argument for hi-caps. Unless you're a sniper of divine skill, given a backstop that won't endanger innocents, it's always good to keep shooting till they stop being a threat, because some rounds are gonna miss, and some aren't gonna hit anything that will stop them from shooting back. "Miss" is not good, "Miss miss arm side arm MAJOR ORGAN" is better.

If it ever comes to that sort of threat I'm facing, like an armed looter, I could care less if I miss a few as long as I stop them and don't endanger people beyond.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 12:45:05 AM by Manedwolf »

Bogie

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 01:01:22 AM »
Gitcherself a BB gun.
 
And the moving target dealie.
 
Have the sun at your back.
 
Don't use the sights. Look OVER them...
 
And you'll find yourself watching the BB...
 
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crawdaddyjim

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2008, 10:25:29 PM »
All of my kids started with a daisy red rider. Stationary targets to learn fundamentals then I would throw heavy paper plates like a frisbee as they got better I would switch to smaller plates and then when they could hit a 8" plate regularly we transitioned to a 22lr and clay pigeons. My oldest son is way better than his dad. And has a really impressive kill ratio on running rabbits(real ones).

Jim

Perd Hapley

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2008, 10:28:32 PM »
Move to the USA? =D

No, dude, Microbalrog, move to like Israel.  They are all super-snipers there. 
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2008, 10:30:29 PM »
get something that rolls and keep it rolling by shooting it. my dads big on "chasing" targets that fall. like cans and stuff.

plus its fun.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

Bogie

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Re: Rifle question
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2008, 01:11:29 AM »
On a dusty day, you can learn how stuff impacts, and walk your fire into something... Gets to where you have to walk less...
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