CA gun owners win one!

[gunsmith]

To:
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(CALGUNS.NET - CGNN
 
) - Redwood City, CA. 7:20PM 12-18-2008. 
Thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=139100
 
The Calguns Foundation Announces Successful Defense
of John Contos of Sacramento-Based Sonoma Firearms

    * Case based on the incorrect theory that U-15 Stocks are
      “thumbhole” stocks (and/or constitute a pistol grip) is dismissed.
    * Improper prosecution brought by California Department of Justice
      Bureau of Firearms as retribution and regulatory over-reach.

The Calguns Foundation (CGF) announces that it has again successfully defended an innocent person charged with violating California’s complex and overbearing firearms laws. The Solano County District Attorney’s office dismissed all charges in an Assault Weapon-related case in People v. Contos. John Contos, the proprietor of Sonoma Firearms, was charged based upon the theory that the California Rifles’ brand “U-15” stock constituted a thumbhole stock (or was in fact a pistol grip) - and was thus a feature triggering Assault Weapon status under California law.
Background: In June 2007, Mr. Contos was contacted by Supervisory Special Agent Ignatius Chinn of the California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms in relation to sales of off-list lower receivers for California-legal rifles. According to California law, the serialized “lower receivers” of rifles or pistols that might be considered “Assault Weapons” – and which are not specified by make and model – cannot be considered “Assault Weapons” unless they are specifically listed in California “Assault Weapons” law by make and model. Receivers not listed by make and model are known as “off-list”, and are perfectly legal to sell and possess.
However, even though these receivers are perfectly legal, it is still possible to create an illegal assault weapon by putting the wrong “accessories” on one of these receivers. One such accessory, which is prohibited, except under certain circumstances, is the “thumbhole stock.”
At the Solano County Gun Show in July 2007, Agent Chinn observed that Mr. Contos was selling off-list lower receivers configured with U-15 “butt stocks.” Agent Chinn claimed such stocks were “thumbhole stocks” that could make these receivers into “Assault Weapons” by having certain feature configurations that are prohibited. As there is actually no “hole” in a U-15 stock, this position was at best specious. Later that summer, Agent Chinn obtained and served a warrant based on the “thumbhole stock” theory and seized numerous firearms - including handguns and various rifles having no relationship to this dispute.
The Case: The Calguns Foundation retained the Law Offices of Don Kilmer to defend Mr. Contos. After passage of many months and no prosecution was forthcoming, Mr. Kilmer began the civil process of demanding the return of Mr. Contos’ property. After being stonewalled by the Bureau of Firearms, Mr. Kilmer filed a Tort Claims Act claim for the return of all property as well as compensation for business interruption. Just as the window for a response to the Tort Claims Act claim was to expire, the Bureau of Firearms persuaded a Solano County District Attorney to bring criminal charges (in June 2008), claiming that Mr. Contos was guilty of offering to sell illegal Assault Weapons.
After reviewing the proposed testimony of the State’s expert (Agent Chinn) the Solano County DA had the courage to admit that he could not meet the burden of proving that a U-15-equipped rifle or receiver was an Assault Weapon. With the case’s dismissal, Mr. Contos looks forward to the prompt return of his property. The Foundation was prepared, if necessary, to secure expert testimony from topologists (mathematicians specializing in the fields of surfaces and shapes) relating to the design of the U-15 stock and its not possessing a “thumbhole”.
The Calguns Foundation remains concerned the Bureau of Firearms has shown a pattern of using the criminal courts to extract retribution against adversaries and quash dissent about their overbroad view of the law. Bureau of Firearms has - on multiple occasions - instigated criminal charges as it became clear that they would be required to return property by civil action. Additionally, the Bureau of Firearms continues to attempt to use the criminal courts to expand the regulatory reach of the Assault Weapon laws. This is contrary to California law. This pattern and practice of charging citizens with a crimes for the purpose of exploring the regulatory boundaries of a fundamental right are extremely troubling and may require redress.
CGF offers its congratulations and thanks to John Contos for his support and patience during this arduous process. Mr. Contos has been a strong personal supporter of the Calguns community, even as this process has exacted real costs to him. Thanks also to The Law Offices of Don Kilmer for their excellent work on this case to date.
Also, CGF offers its congratulations to Grant Early, inventor of the California Rifles U-15 stock, upon having it clearly deemed to be neither a thumbhole stock nor a pistol grip.
Please consider a donation to offset the legal fees and other costs that The Calguns Foundation bore in this case - and which it continues to bear in order to defend other cases. Your donations are likely to be tax deductible, as The Calguns Foundation expects to be obtaining 501(c)(3) tax-deductible status. You can donate (at http://calgunsfoundation.org/main/index.php/donate
 
) via check, credit card, homebanking payments, and Paypal.
The Calguns Foundation expects to see this case through to a final and satisfactory conclusion for both Mr. Contos and the California sport shooting community.
Gene Hoffman, Jr.
Chairman, The Calguns Foundation

[AZRedhawk44]

Hooray!

I think the stock is ugly and gangly, but at least in CA the AR-15 is no longer qualified by being a default "pistol gripped rifle" anymore.

[gunsmith]

so does this mean you can own one of these and not have to have a fixed ten round mag?

[Angel Eyes]

so does this mean you can own one of these and not have to have a fixed ten round mag?

As long as the rifle does not have any other "evil" features (no flash suppressor, no grenade launcher, etc.) you can run detachable magazines with the U-15 stock.

[gunsmith]

how much you wanna bet people suddenly "remember" those 20 and 30 round mags they had in the basement?

[Perd Hapley]

Never heard of that before, so here's a picture for others like me. 



Nice to see those stupid laws are uglifying the guns in your state protecting your citizens from violent crime, California.     Leave it to the clueless regressives to find a way to make an ugly gun uglier. 

[Standing Wolf]

With the case’s dismissal, Mr. Contos looks forward to the prompt return of his property.

Yeah. Right.

[Gewehr98]

so does this mean you can own one of these and not have to have a fixed ten round mag?

No, it just means the Kalifornia DOJ will be looking for a different way to prosecute folks with semiauto military-style rifles. 

[gunsmith]

Originally Posted by gunsmith View Post
do these guns have to have button mags? or can they have regular ten round mags that you can swap at will?
"Featureless" guns with an ordinary magazine latch (that is, one that is operated without a tool) can have magazines of any capacity, and they can be swapped at will.

If the gun has a non-detachable magazine (such as by installing a Bullet Button), then it may have any of the "features" such as a pistol grip or flash hider, and the magazine can even be swapped (with a tool), but it must never have a magazine that holds more than ten rounds installed.

    Detachable magazine of any size + restricted features = illegal assault weapon.

    Detachable magazine of any size without any other restricted features = OK.

    Fixed magazine holding more than 10 rounds = illegal assault weapon, with or without the other restricted features.

    Fixed magazine holding 10 or less rounds = OK, with or without the other restricted features.

The U-15 stock is one of the ways to avoid having restricted features, so that a regular magazine catch and magazines of any capacity may be used. The U-15 stock eliminates the normal pistol grip, which is one of the restricted features.

While it would be OK to build a gun with both a U-15 stock and a Bullet Button (BB) as long as the magazine holds no more than ten rounds, this would be a silly configuration unless you just happen to like the look or feel of the U-15 stock better. With the BB and a 10 round or smaller magazine, you may have as many pistol grips and flash hiders on the rifle as you want.

If you have a rifle with a Bullet Button, it's up to you whether you reload by swapping one 10-round magazine for another one, or remove the 10-round magazine to reload it, or leave the magazine in place and hinge open the upper half of the rifle to load it in place. Just make sure that you never put in a magazine holding more than 10 rounds, and also make sure that nobody else does that to your rifle a the range. Personally, I like to leave the magazine in place and install a plastic chamber safety flag when I'm away from the rifle (say, while changing targets), but the Range Officer may or may not like seeing an installed magazine during a range break.

The easiest way to make sense of this legal mess is to study the excellent CA AW ID Flowchart. There's a link to it hiding near the upper right corner of every Calguns forum page (below the ads and the first big blue bar) in case you lose it and want a new copy.