Author Topic: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story  (Read 3157 times)

gunsmith

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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/20/BAI4161N0D.DTL

check out the comments!

BART holdup victim grabs knife, kills robber

(02-20) 11:29 PST OAKLAND -- A 23-year-old visitor from the East Coast had just gotten money from an ATM when he told his friend on a cell phone that he had a bad feeling about two men approaching him at the Fruitvale BART Station in Oakland.

( same station where they had riots afters cops shot an unarmed restrained aggressor )

His worst fears were realized when one suspect, Victor Veliz, 18, held a folding knife with a 5-inch blade to his neck and the other, Christopher Gonzalez, 18, threatened to shoot him Thursday night, authorities said.

In a blind panic, he lashed out at his attackers, grabbing the knife from one of them and punching the other as his friend listened in horror on the phone.

Without realizing it, authorities say, the man stabbed Gonzalez in the chest. Gonzalez stumbled to his family's home around the corner, collapsed into his father's arms and died.

Veliz, who is affiliated with a gang, was arrested at Gonzalez's home after police allegedly found him with the East Coast visitor's cell phone. He will be charged with murder in the death of his accomplice, along with a robbery count, prosecutors said.

The robbery victim suffered only cuts in fighting off his assailants. He ran from the station, flagged down an Oakland police officer on Fruitvale Avenue and turned over the bloody knife. His name was not released.

The man was "scared senseless" when he was attacked about 9:30 p.m. Thursday, said Allison Danzig, an Alameda County deputy district attorney. He acted in self-defense and will not be charged, she said.

When police told him that Gonzalez had died, "he was very saddened and very upset," Danzig said.

Gonzalez's father, Javier Gonzalez, said Friday that his son had cried out for his parents and sister when he burst into his home on San Leandro Street. He died there.

Javier Gonzalez sobbed at the loss of his son, who worked with him in his roofing business and at Oakland Raiders games.

"I'm angry at both of them," he said of the robbery victim and Veliz. "They took my son away from me. He was a hard-working kid."

He added, "My son is dead. I want somebody to pay for this."

The incident wasn't the only violence near a BART station Thursday night. In Daly City, police said, a triple shooting outside the BART station that left one man dead and two others wounded may have resulted from a mistaken belief that the victims were gang members.

Two of the four men who were in a 1995 Buick Regal when the car was sprayed with bullets were wearing red baseball caps, and the color red is associated with a Latino gang, said Daly City police Lt. Jay Morena.

But the victims were not gang members, Morena said.

The dead man, a 21-year-old from San Francisco, has not been identified, and no arrests have been made.

E-mail Henry K. Lee at hlee@sfchronicle.com.

This article appeared on page B - 2 of the San Francisco Chronicle
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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txgho1911

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 06:06:30 AM »
Maybe a roadtripp through oakland wearing everyones colors would be in order.
Maybe Javier Gonzalez needs a reminder that his son was not a victim in any of this.
socialnewswatchDOTcom instead of Drudge

gunsmith

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 06:32:03 AM »
they showed the dead guys family grieving on TV, its got to be quite a shock, your 18 yr old comes home with a stab wound and dies in your arms ... surprisingly the liberals commenting in the paper are overwhelming gleeful in death of the mugger.
A liberal is a conservative who has just been arrested and a conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

txgho1911

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 06:44:48 AM »
No, we're not even going to put that out there. I trust no one from this board would consider contacting the man. I also trust that no one would consider posting his contact information to this board, or even telling others where they think they found his contact information.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 02:40:39 PM by Mike Irwin »
socialnewswatchDOTcom instead of Drudge

Standing Wolf

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 08:16:27 AM »
I like news stories with happy endings.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Lennyjoe

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 08:16:43 AM »
And what do you propose to do with the number?

Manedwolf

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 09:42:02 AM »
Quote
Javier Gonzalez sobbed at the loss of his son, who worked with him in his roofing business and at Oakland Raiders games.

"I'm angry at both of them," he said of the robbery victim and Veliz. "They took my son away from me. He was a hard-working kid."

He added, "My son is dead. I want somebody to pay for this."

Another good boy turning his life around. ;/

There needs to be laws passed to prevent the deadbeat families of perps from suing victims when they defend themselves.

Viking

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 09:51:31 AM »
Another good boy turning his life around. ;/

There needs to be laws passed to prevent the deadbeat families of perps from suing victims when they defend themselves.
A law that would allow for them to be flogged for Being Stupid In Public for saying such ridiculous things like "he was just turning his life around" would be nice too. :mad:
Any useful links to other newssites about this?
“The modern world will not be punished. It is the punishment.” — Nicolás Gómez Dávila

geronimotwo

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 10:12:48 AM »
i wonder what kind of training the nearly-victum had that allowed him to remove a knife from his throat, and then stab his assaillant with it.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

seeker_two

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2009, 10:35:23 AM »
i wonder what kind of training the nearly-victum had that allowed him to remove a knife from his throat, and then stab his assaillant with it.

Quote from: sfgate
In a blind panic, he lashed out at his attackers, grabbing the knife from one of them and punching the other as his friend listened in horror on the phone.

Pure, unadulterated panic, if I read the story correctly....a lot of criminals don't expect their victims to fight back....


Quote from: sfgate
Javier Gonzalez sobbed at the loss of his son, who worked with him in his roofing business and at Oakland Raiders games.

"I'm angry at both of them," he said of the robbery victim and Veliz. "They took my son away from me. He was a hard-working kid."

I'd be real curious to look at Mr. Gonzalez's criminal record & list of associates....a lot of gang members are are second- & third-generation members....




Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2009, 11:06:39 AM »
guy with a gun wasn't expecting an easy mark to go rambo on him. bet they had a funny look on their face when it happened
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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DJJ

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2009, 11:19:46 AM »
Which guy with a gun are you referring to?

41magsnub

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2009, 11:22:45 AM »
Which guy with a gun are you referring to?

The now dead guy who threatened to shoot the victim.  Whether he actually had a gun or not is irrelevant and the article does not really say, he told the victim he did.

Quote
and the other, Christopher Gonzalez, 18, threatened to shoot him Thursday night, authorities said.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 11:27:18 AM by 41magsnub »

RaspberrySurprise

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2009, 11:36:40 AM »
Quote
He added, "My son is dead. I want somebody to pay for this."

Look in the mirror, if you'd raised your son properly he probably wouldn't have been a gang member and therefore would be alive right now. But hey what's a little personal responsibility anyways?

Also who wants to bet the family sues the victim?
Look, tiny text!

41magsnub

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2009, 11:46:22 AM »
Look in the mirror, if you'd raised your son properly he probably wouldn't have been a gang member and therefore would be alive right now. But hey what's a little personal responsibility anyways?

Also who wants to bet the family sues the victim?

Exactly..  who should pay? 
The victim he was going to shoot?  nope. Wait, this is SF..  he might want to be a little worried.

Society?  This is SF..  might happen. 

The other punk most likely with no assets that are sue worthy?  Never happen in SF.

The bank who put an ATM there?  again..  SF..  maybe

Nobody?  I vote for nobody except for his own tortured nights thinking about how poorly he raised his son.  I doubt that will happen, somebody besides his family and his son are at fault right?

Bigjake

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2009, 11:46:35 AM »
Quote
"I'm angry at both of them," he said of the robbery victim and Veliz. "They took my son away from me. He was a hard-working kid."

He added, "My son is dead. I want somebody to pay for this."

Poor you.

Your son was a felonious dirtbag, the world is a better place with him out of the gene pool.

DJJ

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2009, 12:07:28 PM »
The now dead guy who threatened to shoot the victim.  Whether he actually had a gun or not is irrelevant and the article does not really say, he told the victim he did.

You missed my point. I don't think CSD was thinking that abstractly.

41magsnub

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2009, 01:22:40 PM »
You missed my point. I don't think CSD was thinking that abstractly.

Please explain your point, I'm still not seeing it.

Balog

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2009, 01:40:50 PM »
Another good boy turning his life around. ;/

There needs to be laws passed to prevent the deadbeat families of perps from suing victims when they defend themselves.

A few states have laws like that I believe. Florida maybe?
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freedom lover

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2009, 01:55:15 PM »
Victor Veliz should be decapitated at that BART station and his head put on a pole.

grampster

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2009, 03:57:31 PM »
A few states have laws like that I believe. Florida maybe?

Michigan too.  Quite a number of states have "No retreat" laws and prohibitions for the criminal or the criminals family to sue the victim.
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gunsmith

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2009, 07:35:17 PM »
CA penal code protects the victim, you can not bring a lawsuit against the victim.
In fact CA law also allows you to stand your ground, always had!
CCW is kind of difficult for bayarea folks though.
A few other things, a few years ago a guy in SF came home to find his garage being burglarized
the bad guy pulled a gun, good guy grabbed gun and shot the bad guy, bad guy runs away
and local hero chases him shooting and eventually 4 blocks later kills him.
They declined to prosecute!
Also, CA law has an exemption for people like me.
If you carry a legally owned handgun concealed without a permit, and you use it for self defense, you can not be penalized for the unlawful carry! waaaay better than NY/NJ
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

gunsmith

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2009, 08:13:09 PM »
check out the cavalier police response

http://cbs5.com/video/


Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

DJJ

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2009, 08:31:12 PM »
I like this (approximate) quote from the video:

"Gonzales' family says he didn't need to rob someone, since he had a steady job at his father's roofing company."

Kind of makes you wonder why he did, then...

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: another "you know they can take your weapon from you" success story
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2009, 08:59:46 PM »
bad habits/companions are hard to shed  15 or more years ago a kid got shot robbing a market in cailfornia a day or 2 after signing a multi million dollar record deal
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I