Author Topic: Paging Mike Irwin and other grammarians.  (Read 1200 times)

Perd Hapley

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Paging Mike Irwin and other grammarians.
« on: February 24, 2009, 08:48:37 PM »
"...we need to take a fresh look at the ties that have bound a diverse people together."* 

I would re-write this as "...we need to take a fresh look at the ties that have bound together a diverse people." 

Is there a name for the grammatical inelegance of the original version?  It reminds me of a split infinitive, but the infinitive does not seem to be involved. 

* from Keeping the Faith:  A Cultural History of the U.S. Supreme Court by John E. Semonche
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Paging Mike Irwin and other grammarians.
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2009, 09:21:40 PM »
Quote
Is there a name for the grammatical inelegance of the original version?  It reminds me of a split infinitive, but the infinitive does not seem to be involved.

It's not a split infinitive, which by definition includes the word "to" and a verb.

I'm unsure what to call the usage. It's not wrong to separate a verb and the preposition associated with it. There's nothing ungrammatic about your first example: merely stylistically clunky. In general, unless you're writing dialogue, try to keep the verb and preposition together.

That saidâ„¢, keeping verbs and prepositions together isn't always feasible. It's not illogical to say, for example, "Press together the halves while the glue dries," but "Press the halves together while the glue dries" doesn't sound stilted to American ears. John Updike needlessly "unseparated" prepositions and verbs in his old age, and ended up writing prose that sometimes read like a mediocre translation from the French.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Paging Mike Irwin and other grammarians.
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2009, 10:46:44 PM »
Oh, I didn't say it was incorrect.  The word I used was inelegant. 

And I do have a passing familiarity with the meaning of infinitive.  This is, what, my seventh Spanish class I'm taking this semester?   =D
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zahc

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Re: Paging Mike Irwin and other grammarians.
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2009, 11:11:36 PM »
squinting modifier?

That or it's just stylistics. I agree that your version is superior.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 11:14:37 PM by zahc »
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K Frame

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Re: Paging Mike Irwin and other grammarians.
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 12:45:06 AM »
The simplest solution would be to to eliminate the adverb and get rid of the present perfect tense.

"We need to take a fresh look at the ties that bind a diverse people."

Of course that could change the meaning of the entire passage, but in that limited example the present and present perfect tenses perform the same function -- showing a relationship that existed in the past, one continues in the present and, by inference, will continue into the future.


How I would possibly write it?

We must re-examine the ties binding a diverse people.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Paging Mike Irwin and other grammarians.
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 01:36:42 AM »
Thanks. 

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