Author Topic: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision  (Read 4034 times)

Grandpa Shooter

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Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« on: March 09, 2009, 07:46:55 PM »
NEW YORK - Iridium Satellite LLC said Monday that it has moved a spare satellite into the orbit of the one that was destroyed in a collision with a Russian satellite a month ago.

The high-speed crash with the decommissioned Russian military communications satellite on Feb. 9 turned both spacecraft into clouds of debris.

Soon after, Iridium, which is based in Bethesda, Md., said it had reconfigured its remaining 65 active satellites to cover the hole in worldwide satellite-phone coverage left by the crash.

On Monday, it said it had permanently closed the gap with a spare that was already in orbit, bringing its fleet back to 66 active satellites.

Iridium said it believes the incident has demonstrated the need for more "aggressive action" to track satellites and prevent collisions. It suggested expanded sharing of information between the industry and the U.S. government, which could relieve the Air Force of the need to track commercial satellites.

Nicholas L. Johnson, NASA's chief scientist for orbital debris, said last month that about 19,000 objects are present in low and high orbit around the Earth. That includes about 900 satellites, but most of it is junk.


I am not up on current space technology so I ask you young pups, "Isn't there some way to safely remove 19,000 pieces of crap from our skies".  Short of sending Bruce Willis and a team of "volunteers" into space.  Mayberwe should send "The Ripe Stuff" up instead.

Teknoid

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 08:29:06 PM »
Didn't the Navy recently shoot down a decaying satellite? Sounds like an excellent opportunity for some target practice.

AJ Dual

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 08:47:35 PM »
I am not up on current space technology so I ask you young pups, "Isn't there some way to safely remove 19,000 pieces of crap from our skies".  Short of sending Bruce Willis and a team of "volunteers" into space.  Mayberwe should send "The Ripe Stuff" up instead.


Damn hard to do.

You have to match velocities and rendezvous with "19,000" pieces of junk, then either slow it down so it falls into the atmosphere, or shove it away further out into the solar system.  Which takes a lot of fuel. And a "lot of fuel" needs even more fuel to move the fuel... lather, rinse, repeat. Or you need re-fueling missions, which requires lots of docking, fueling space craft etc.

If you shoot at the junk, and hit it, (also damn hard to do) you just make showers of even more junk. Now traveling in shotgun-like patterns of angry bees. In simple physics, E=MxV  A few years back, a postage stamp sized crater was made in one of the Space Shuttle's observation windows. Approximately comparable to a .22LR point-blank shot into the reinforced glass. They suspect it was a flake of paint from an exploded rocket booster.

The SM-3 fired from the Navy cruiser at the defunct spy-satellite was somewhat of a cheap-shot. It was a massively impressive feat of targeting, but it was at a satellite that was already coming in to burn up. So the range was short, and there was no risk of making a shotgun-cloud of debris like you would if you shot a satellite or other large piece of junk in a stable orbit.

And despite the one in a billion Iridium-Russian collision, the big stuff is safe. You can see it on radar, and know well in advance when it's coming. Much cheaper to have an automatic course correction, a one second burst from an attitude thruster a few hours ahead, has you hundreds of miles out of the way by the time the intersect would have happened. It's the little stuff like nuts, bolts, flakes of paint that is the real danger.

Other schemes for getting rid of the small stuff have involved ideas like mylar sails or gigantic "windmills" that slow down the smaller bits of junk when they hit them and pass through, eventually getting them to fall back to Earth. Whether or not they'd just make more junk, I don't know.

I suppose you could try lasers, although it wouldn't be as sexy as one's initial mental impression of a junk-shooting space laser might otherwise be. The amount of energy to completely vaporize/gassify a piece of junk, much less an entire satellite is enormous. Way beyond our capabilities, now, or in the near future. Keeping a laser focused over such a distance is also not trivial. It's the bleeding edge of technology, the Air Force's ABL project to just poke a basketball-sized hole in a SCUD at 50-100 miles just enough to destabilize it is barely within the bounds of our capability. Even with the vacuum of space helping, doing so at the ranges of tens of thousands of miles is asking too much. And all it would do is burn a hole, which is not much good in the vacuum of space where there's no Mach3 wind to tear it apart, like there is during a missile launch from the ground. And burn a hole in the wrong part of a dead satellite, it may explode, and you're back to the shotgun-blast problem again.

Try to get closer to the junk, and you're back to the fuel problem.

It might be possible to "tap" junk out of orbit with a laser someday. Repeated little bursts of laser light, almost like the ones used in surgery would vaporize little puffs of gas that would act just like little rocket thrusts off the skin of the object. Over days or weeks, the junk could be slowed down to the point it falls into the atmosphere. The targeting and focus problems are still hideous, but it would at least solve the energy problem.

One idea I had would be to spray jets of fine water-ice in retrograde orbits against the space-junk, which would have a sum-total drag effect with the millions of collisions with the junk and slow it down, allowing it to de-orbit and burn up. The water ice would not contribute to the junk problem because it would evaporate under the vacuum of space and sunlight and eventually blow away on the solar wind. I've no idea if that's practical or cost-effective though. As making a jet of anything, is really no different than having the fuel for a rocket.

It's a really tough problem..  :|

« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 08:52:35 PM by AJ Dual »
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 10:13:52 PM »
Wow!  I am continually amazed by the depth of knowledge some of you guys have.  Thanks AJ for the update.  I didn't think it would be quite as classy as riding it to the moon. =D

Standing Wolf

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 10:27:28 PM »
Yeah, well. What about rubber bands, you know?
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mfree

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 08:42:29 AM »
Launch a satellite that is nothing more than a huge high pressure nitrogen tank on an intercept course with a debris field... wait for the appropriate moment, and pop it. Pop it right, and the canister frags will be propelled downwards out of orbit.

The debris flies into the expanding gas cloud at ungodly speeds and hopefully the friction burns it up or it slows enough to fall out of orbit pretty quickly. Afterwards, the gas cloud simply dissipates.

At least, that's one idea :)

MechAg94

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 09:53:00 AM »
I'm just impressed they had a "spare" satellite. 
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AJ Dual

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 09:59:18 AM »
I'm just impressed they had a "spare" satellite. 

The current Iridium bought the whole constellation for pennies on the dollar. IIRC the system was worth an estimated 5 Billion in 2000 dollars, and the investor group that bought it out of bankruptcy receivership got it for 25 million. Which would be something like a 95% discount.

Not a bad deal. So they had cash to spare to launch a few extra Iridiums. (They may have been already built & mothballed for all I know, even more savings.)
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RevDisk

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 10:39:25 AM »
I'm just impressed they had a "spare" satellite. 

Every major constellation keeps spares out of the way.  Usually it just means a satellite (usually more) is parked in a different, typically less crowded orbit.  It functions with the bare minimum to stay alive and maximum fuel conservation.  It virtually a legal requirement for all satellite telecommunication companies because they often have SLA's built into their contracts. 


Quote
I am not up on current space technology so I ask you young pups, "Isn't there some way to safely remove 19,000 pieces of crap from our skies".  Short of sending Bruce Willis and a team of "volunteers" into space.  Mayberwe should send "The Ripe Stuff" up instead.

There's been ideas put out there.  Most are either not technically feasible at the moment, or insanely costly.  Magnetic drift nets were my personal favorite.  The point wasn't to collect up all the junk (though that would be nice), but to screw up the velocity of the junk.  The reason why no one has really bothered is because those 19,000 pieces of space junk are not in stable oribits.  Eventually, all of it will either burn up or get launched out into space.  Just takes time. 
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Balog

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 10:52:47 AM »
I suppose you could try lasers, although it wouldn't be as sexy as one's initial mental impression of a junk-shooting space laser might otherwise be.

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Gewehr98

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 02:36:33 PM »
I'm surprised Iridium is still in business.

The DoD has been keeping them at least partially solvent with encrypted satellite cell phone service contracts.

Gawd, I hated carrying that friggin' Iridium brick around. 

It always rang when I didn't need it to.

I'm just tucking into a dozen raw oysters, 30 hot buffalo wings, and a draft Yuenglings at my favorite raw bar in Satellite Beach.

Yup.  Sucker sitting there on the table goes off. Wife grabs it. 

"Sweetie, looks like you'll have to leave again."

I'm wiping buffalo sauce from fingers and face - "Who is it on the caller ID?"

"It says Situation Room, does that mean anything to you?"

"Poop!  Have the waitress get a to-go box, I'll be camping out at The Watch for the rest of the evening.  I'll be in the car waiting for you, just give me at least 5 minutes' head start..."

I never really understood the premise behind them, though.  You have an encrypted satellite cell phone, cleared to the highest level of classified conversation, but there's no Get Smart Dome of Silence nearby.   =D


« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 02:48:42 PM by Gewehr98 »
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Manedwolf

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2009, 02:38:26 PM »
But satellite phones saved the day in Under Siege...!

:lol:

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2009, 02:50:16 PM »
paging Richard Benjamin, white courtesy Quark Phone please.

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2009, 03:05:01 PM »
An object weighing one one-hundreth of an ounce (4.375 gr) traveling at 32,267 fps (22,000 mph) produces 10,118 lb-ft energy.

In other words, at impact the effect of a BB traveling 22,000 MPH is roughly the same as being shot point-blank with a .50 BMG.

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zahc

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2009, 03:08:31 PM »
Quote
E=MxV

I hope you mean momentum. Momentum is mass*velocity, not energy.
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2009, 07:40:46 PM »
I hope you mean momentum. Momentum is mass*velocity, not energy.

Exactly.  Kinetic Energy is KE= 1/2 mV^2
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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2009, 12:51:18 AM »
I hope you mean momentum. Momentum is mass*velocity, not energy.
Beat me to it dangit! 

Quote
Exactly.  Kinetic Energy is KE= 1/2 mV^2

Dang I'm slow!

Great post though AJ.  There are some interesting ideas out there on this stuff, but I'm not convinced on a solution as of yet.  Solar powered electromagnets maybe, although it doesn't sound do-able.  Probably would take too much power. 

Also, I just had a flashback to that nerdsniping comic.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2009, 09:21:42 AM »
Beat me to it dangit! 
 
Dang I'm slow!

Great post though AJ.  There are some interesting ideas out there on this stuff, but I'm not convinced on a solution as of yet.  Solar powered electromagnets maybe, although it doesn't sound do-able.  Probably would take too much power. 

Also, I just had a flashback to that nerdsniping comic.

The problem with electromagnetics is that the field strength to move anything a significant bit would have to be enormous. otherwise to get within a few miles you're back to the "fuel problem". I know magnetic fields are measured in gauss, but the Earth's magnetic field is only "1 gauss". There must be some other measurment to that as well, because I can buy a Rare-Earth Neodymium-Iron-Boron magnet with a surface gauss of almost 3000, but that field does not extend up into space and deflect the solar wind like the Earth's measly 1 gauss field does.

Also, all the "junk" up there is from the aerospace industry, which is not known for making a lot of use of ferrous metals.

Perhaps the mother of all electron guns could charge the junk so that the Earth's own magnetic field affects it's orbit in useful ways, but it's difficult to get the beam to travel straight more than a few miles, because of that magnetic field. And then the fuel and rendezvous problem rears it's ugly head yet again.

Ultimately I think it's an economics issue, and not an engineering one. Nothing substantive will be done about the space junk problem as long as it's cheaper to dodge and/or armor your spacecraft/

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RevDisk

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2009, 09:34:53 AM »
Ultimately I think it's an economics issue, and not an engineering one. Nothing substantive will be done about the space junk problem as long as it's cheaper to dodge and/or armor your spacecraft/

Or simpler yet.  "Try not to create too much new junk and the old stuff will eventually burn up."

 =D
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MillCreek

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Re: Iridium replaces satellite smashed in collision
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2009, 11:03:55 AM »

From today's Wall Street Journal:


A Cosmic Question: How to Get Rid Of All That Orbiting Space Junk?
Crash of U.S., Russian Craft Renews Interest; Lasers? Rocket-Powered Water Guns?
   

By DANIEL MICHAELS

In the 1980s, Jim Hollopeter helped design rockets that shot into orbit. Today, some of those launchers are still cluttering up space, and he wants to wash them away with a rocket-powered water gun.

Like many aerospace engineers, Mr. Hollopeter is worried about thousands of pieces of useless equipment circling Earth. Bits of spent rocket boosters, old exploded satellites and tools dropped by space-walking astronauts are just some of the trash racing along in the near-vacuum of space.

The volume of man-made space debris has grown so large that scientists say garbage now poses a bigger safety threat to the U.S. space shuttle than an accident on liftoff or landing. The International Space Station occasionally fires thrusters to dodge junk.

The problem hit home Feb. 10, when a defunct Russian military satellite smashed into an American one used for commercial communications, spewing shards across thousands of cubic miles.

Space flight is a risky business, but the chance of a deadly collision is increasing due to a spreading canopy of junk that's orbiting our planet. And the wreckage from a recent satellite collision is adding to the trash, making more collisions among spacecraft all but inevitable. WSJ's Robert Lee Hotz reports.

The crash prompted Mr. Hollopeter to refine designs for a concept he had long toyed with: Using aging rockets loaded with water to spray orbiting junk. His idea is that the extraterrestrial shower would gradually knock refuse down toward the atmosphere, where it would burn up, as would the launcher. The water would turn to steam.

"We need to treat space like a national park -- carry out what you carry in," says Heiner Klinkrad, who runs the European Space Agency's Space Debris Office in Darmstadt, Germany, and is chairman of the global Inter-Agency Space Debris Coordination Committee.

Dr. Klinkrad, a German aeronautical engineer who monitors European satellites, has long urged governments and commercial space operators to be neat when they launch. He says space agencies should design rockets that don't scatter bolts or straps in space as they release probes. New satellites should be built so they head earthward when their work-life ends, rather than continuing to orbit. Objects lower than roughly 125 miles self-immolate in the atmosphere.

Still, limiting the amount of new debris isn't enough. Vast quantities of junk are already parked in space for centuries to come, and many engineers are working on how to get rid of it.

Johns Hopkins University's Applied Physics Laboratory, a leading space research center, recently conducted feasibility studies into junk-zapping lasers and garbage-collecting rockets. Dr. Klinkrad at ESA is now leading an international space commission that is assessing debris-removal possibilities. He is also organizing two global conferences that will discuss ideas later this month.

Experts are also taking a fresh look at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's 1996 Project Orion, a "space broom" concept to fry space trash with ground-based lasers. When Jonathan W. Campbell started leading the effort, he thought the approach would entail futuristic and impossibly costly technologies.

"I thought it would be a Buck Rogers thing," the astrophysicist recalls. Instead, his team concluded that for the price of one space-shuttle launch -- roughly $500 million -- the laser could nudge thousands of bits of garbage toward incineration in the atmosphere within five years. Compared to the cost of losing a satellite or a shuttle to space debris impact, "this looks like a bargain," says Dr. Campbell, who works at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala.

A key to his plan is using existing low-power lasers in quick pulses, much like the flashbulb on a camera. The laser would only singe the surface of an object in space, but that tiny burn could still help point it downward, Dr. Campbell says. Project Orion's low-budget approach hits at a conundrum of space debris.

Multibillion-dollar budgets have parked people in space, allowed global telecommunications and brought Star Wars military systems within reach. But cleanup missions to pick up all the trash cast off by a launch are prohibitively expensive. "The problem with removing space debris is you don't have any financial benefit from doing it," says Dr. Klinkrad.

To rocket scientists, who defy gravity for a living, that's an irresistible challenge. Mr. Hollopeter says he got excited by water-blasting because it's so low-tech. "This is basically the cheapest way I could come up with," says the 61-year-old engineer, who now works for Satellite Communications in Austin, Texas.

Mr. Hollopeter's recent work was sparked by a request last November for space-cleaning ideas from Launchspace Training, a space consulting firm in Bethesda, Md. Launchspace ran the project, which drew more than 100 responses, as a promotion and to tap aging engineers with experience from the U.S.-Soviet space race of the 1960s, says director Robert Russo.

"There's a magnificent pool of knowledge and talent out there, and I think they're just not being asked," says Mr. Russo. He says Mr. Hollopeter's idea was one of the most original, although nuttier concepts were also submitted by "techno-geeks who read science fiction and know nothing about space."
Blown to Bits

Among the suggestions: launching big nets and large magnets to snag refuse, or using high-energy lasers to atomize debris. None of these ideas is feasible. Magnets would be useless because spacecraft contain almost no iron. Nets are almost uncontrollable. Blasting debris, meanwhile, would simply create smaller remains that would be tougher to track and produce a vast haze of shrapnel, experts say.

Detritus wasn't an issue back in October 1957, when the Soviet Union launched Sputnik, the first man-made satellite. But within 20 years, concerns about trash were already growing. In 1978, two NASA scientists published a paper predicting "the creation of a debris belt" around the Earth.

NASA soon after appointed one of the paper's authors, Donald Kessler, to start a new Orbital Debris Program. The office began working with other U.S. government agencies to track and analyze orbiting garbage.

Dr. Kessler says that from the start, his team examined ways to cleanse space. "They were all science-fictiony kinds of things," recalls the retired astrophysicist in Ashville, N.C. One concept to vacuum up refuse was similar to the Planet Eater, which devoured spaceships in an episode of "Star Trek," he says.

Since then, engineers have gotten more serious. In 2003, the Aerospace Corporation, a research center in California, patented plans for an inflatable set of space tongs that could grab and tow objects. They would act like "a hearse for dragging dead satellites to a galactic necropolis," says the patent's author, retired nuclear engineer Ernie Robinson, who lives in Altadena, Calif.
Costs, Benefits

Still, such ideas floundered because the risk of space junk seemed small compared to the cost of removing it. The threat ballooned on Jan. 11, 2007, when China demonstrated its ability to eliminate potential military threats in space by firing a ballistic missile at its Fengyun-1C weather satellite. Instantly, the projectile and the one-ton spacecraft were reduced to roughly 3,000 fragments, increasing the estimated volume of orbiting debris around Earth by about 25%.

The Feb. 10 collision almost 500 miles above Siberia added at least 600 more big fragments, specialists say, and refocused attention on the problem.

"Debris removal is moving to the front of the agenda," says William Ailor, director of the Center for Orbital and Reentry Debris Studies at the Aerospace Corporation in Los Angeles. One unlikely proposal he frequently hears is using "catchers' mitts and such" -- launching a big ball of foam or clay that could sponge up debris. One hitch is that the blob would have to be huge to make a difference, and so would itself become a threat to live satellites, Mr. Ailor says.

With such complexities dogging most space-cleaning ideas for at least the near future, space-debris expert Dr. Klinkrad says the best solution is to follow earthly advise: "Don't litter."
_____________
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MillCreek
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