Author Topic: Iran  (Read 6935 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: Iran
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2009, 01:33:59 AM »
Quote
That doesn't sound a whole lot different than American politics, really, aside from the mullahs putting people on the ballot.

You know, while I have no intention to compare America to Iran, I have to ask:

I was told that to this day, local party activists and precinct captains are the ones who really determine the outcome of primaries, is that true?
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Regolith

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Re: Iran
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 01:46:09 AM »
You know, while I have no intention to compare America to Iran, I have to ask:

I was told that to this day, local party activists and precinct captains are the ones who really determine the outcome of primaries, is that true?

To some degree; however, it seems to be mostly true only in counties that hold caucuses instead of regular primaries.  Regular primaries are secret ballot, caucuses are not, hence a lot of intimidation can go on.  Not that regular vote tampering shenanigans can't go on in non-caucus counties, but it's not as blatant or nearly as common.   There were stories coming out of Texas and some other states where people were complaining that pro-Obama caucus officials and voters were doing their level best to either prevent Hillary supporters from caucusing or force them to vote for Obama instead. 
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Iran
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2009, 09:37:03 AM »
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I was told that to this day, local party activists and precinct captains are the ones who really determine the outcome of primaries, is that true?

I'd say there's truth to that here in Wisconsin. There's certain people who have to approve of major-ticket candidates. There's a small group of monied people whose thumbs-up is needed for a candidate to get funding. Then there's certain people at the party level who decide if a candidate is toeing the right line. Mavericks don't last long here.

lupinus

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Re: Iran
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2009, 03:26:39 PM »
Given the people in question, one islamistnutter for another who is no better or worse, we should keep our mouth shut.  If anything, comment that every vote should be counted and leave it alone from there. 

It's an Iranian problem, not an American problem.  No faction involved is our ally, or even really friendly to us. No faction involved holds similar ideals short of being ticked off (rightly so) about election fraud.  There is nothing involved or at stake here that lends itself to American intervention or even serious official comment.  It doesn't even warrant pushing for more sanctions in the UN.

When it's sorted out worry about the nukes.  They and exporting weapons to those who mean us and our military harm are the only two Iranian issues that America has any stake in IMO.
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seeker_two

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Re: Iran
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2009, 03:44:04 PM »
I wonder if there's any way our guys in Iraq could package up all the Iranian-originating arms that they've confiscated from the terrorists and "donate" them to the dissident movement.... ;)
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RevDisk

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Re: Iran
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2009, 03:55:34 PM »
I wonder if there's any way our guys in Iraq could package up all the Iranian-originating arms that they've confiscated from the terrorists and "donate" them to the dissident movement.... ;)

Allegedly, this happened.  Only the 'dissidents' weren't dissidents.  Sigh.
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FTA84

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Re: Iran
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2009, 12:52:36 AM »
My analysis of the situation appears in Iran follows, and it is not much unlike the grind of US elections.

The "powers that be" select candidates, in one form or another, Iran has a constitution much like the US.  The "Supreme Leader" is (supposedly) a post to make sure that all policies respect Islam.  However, that gives the Supreme leader almost absolute power as every decision is up to his discretion. 

Now put yourself born into such a system, as most of these < 30 years old are.  You know the government isn't what you want but it has some rules and processes in place.  Just like the US, most people on here don't agree with life-long welfare, doesn't think it fits with the capitalist system, but we still "deal with it anyway".

Let us make a US analogue of the system.

I also don't want to pick sides, so I will choose candidate A and candidate B.  They are both pro-big government with more or less the same position (if this is too abstract, think last election, it was between a liberal and a liberal-lite).  Suppose candidate A was the incumbent, the country was in dire financial straights ( > 30% unemployment, as is the case in Iran), and his promises of prosperity were only realized by the underclass, to whom he shared oil wealth (but not among the middle and upper class) while he constantly reduced your country's international standing. 

Election time comes and everyone is excited to vote for candidate B, because, like in this country, it is always a choice between the lesser of two evils.

The election is clearly rigged, and in accordance with the constitution (and Islam..), you protest peacefully in D.C.  One day, the Supreme Court Cheif Justice comes out and says, "We know the election is was rigged. We don't care, go home, and don't comeback unless you want to be messed up".

Now you protest -- why do you protest? You don't protest because you are in love with candidate B, you protest because they violated the system.  The system is, they (=the establishment/parties/ect) pick a few guys, and you pick from those men -- just like in the US. 

However, you then get shot while protesting, under the orders of the chief justice. Done, over, there used to be an illusion of rights -- and that illusion is gone.  All protesting from this point has nothing to do with candidate B anymore, it has to do with (re)obtaining basic rights.  You'd want that chief justice gone and candidate B sworn-in.  None of it because you wanted candidate B, but because that is your system and you want it restored.

It appears what we have in Iran right now is, an underclass loyal to the supreme leader and the current president, after being bought off with oil revenue (= also the Basij, IRG).  Economically disenfranchised upper/middle class with an over-educated and under-privileged class of females loyal to their rights.

I hope that Iran gets its way.  It may not be our system, it may not even be a good system, but some system is better than no system.

seeker_two

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Re: Iran
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2009, 06:34:05 AM »
Allegedly, this happened.  Only the 'dissidents' weren't dissidents.  Sigh.

Guess that joke about "military intelligence" was closer to reality than I thought....   ;/
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roo_ster

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Re: Iran
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2009, 01:37:58 PM »
Quote from: John Quincy Adams
[America] goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

BHO does not live up to JQA's admonition.  He intrudes himself materially in the affairs of independence-minded fascist Palestinians but was not able to muster his voice in support of those who have acted to secure their own freedom with considerably less fascistic rhetoric.



Regards,

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Gewehr98

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Re: Iran
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2009, 02:36:18 PM »
I don't buy the comparison at all.

We're a LONG WAY from emulating the regime that controls Iran. 

Not even close.
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Re: Iran
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2009, 03:18:08 PM »
I don't buy the comparison at all.

We're a LONG WAY from emulating the regime that controls Iran. 

Not even close.

I think you missed the whole point of the comparison.
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roo_ster

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Re: Iran
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2009, 03:32:06 PM »
I don't buy the comparison at all.

We're a LONG WAY from emulating the regime that controls Iran. 

Not even close.

Butbutbut...Two Party System!

And icky Christians!
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roo_ster

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