Author Topic: Gun show today  (Read 2259 times)

dogmush

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Gun show today
« on: January 15, 2011, 08:05:45 AM »
This morning I'm going out to a gun show that I've never been to before.

In that most dangerous of fashions I don't have a specific need, just some cash, and a list of guns I think would be cool to have.

Before I hit these shows, I like to check the going rate of guns on my list, just to make sure I don't get taken.  Most of the ones I want I can get online, and know the online prices, but I've fallen short on two, so I thought I'd ask here.

What is the going rate for one in decent, fireable condition.

A Webley (Mk V preferred) in .455.  (don't really care if it's been cut for moon clips)

A SMLE Mk III.

HK P7 (I found an online dealer for a P7 PSP for $550, and I doubt I'll beat that, but if anyone knows of a better deal I can use to beat a seller down, let me know.

Thanks

dogmush

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2011, 04:47:02 PM »
So I actually found some pretty good deals at the gun show.  After making a lap I ha to stop and decide which I really wanted as there were more deals then I had money.

Winners were:

Sig P238, nitron w/ night sights for $425.  New in Box.

Webley "Commando" Model in .28-200.  It's in pretty rough shape, but functions and locks up well.  I'm going to have to do some research to find out exactly which model/mark it is, but for $150 I thought it was a pretty safe purchase.

Also bought some .380 ammo for $14 a box.

It was a good show, with lots of variety and pretty good prices (Lakeland, FL if anyone cares)  There were a couple tables that had inflated prices but they weren't selling anything either.  There were also a table that hadn't gotten the memo that AR's are back in stock, so that used Bushmaster ain't worth $1500.  I saw two or three folks actually laugh in his face.

Overall, a good way to spend the morning.

MechAg94

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 07:26:51 PM »
I almost always see a few tables that are way overpriced.  It varies as to what they are selling.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 07:32:58 PM »
Where are you going to find .28 cal bullets?

 =D
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SADShooter

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 07:59:07 PM »
Please report on the 238. With Colt Mustang prices where they are, I'm tempted.
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dogmush

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 08:50:42 PM »
Where are you going to find .28 cal bullets?

 =D

Dammit, .38-200  =D

SADshooter,
Once I get to the range, I'll write up a report.  But it feels good in the hand, and well made.  Much more solid then a Kel-Tec or Ruger.

Boomhauer

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2011, 09:02:12 PM »
Last gunshow I went to was *expletive deleted*it, and it didn't help that it cost $7 a head to get in PLUS $5 for parking...grumble grumble grumble...

And they didn't have ANYTHING worth having. Mainly a bunch of old long bbl hunting shotguns (mainly offbrand pumps), and stupid *expletive deleted*it like Taurus Judges and the like. Like 4 ARs in the whole show, and three of those were crappy Bushmaster Carbon 15 rifles...oh, but they did have a SCAR. With a $150 ACOG clone on top of it...boggles the mind...nylon junk holsters by the truckload, Made in China MOLLE web gear, beat to hell surplus, Airsoft galore, and stupid crap.

I ain't going back to another one until I get word that they aren't as crappy. Was not impressed in the least...

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Lennyjoe

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2011, 10:47:34 PM »
Heading to the one here tomorrow morning. 

No funds for guns, but I like to look at the accessories, reloading gear and gun parts. 

Jim147

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2011, 01:05:23 AM »
I have one coming up in a few weeks. I haven't been in a while. I used to be able to find some cheap brass and maybe some bullets or powder.

The rifles have always been overpriced in my area. I have a couple rifles I would love to own, but I'm not paying what they seem to want for them.

I found a beat up savage a few years ago. .243 with a rusty and uncleaned barrel. I thought project. They wanted as much as I could get a new one at a gun shop for, and wouldn't come down. I still don't have that Savage project.

Sounds like you found a few deals. I might go to the next one around here if I have any spare funds.

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sanglant

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2011, 03:09:31 AM »
Where are you going to find .28 cal bullets?

 =D
make them. :P





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Perd Hapley

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2011, 03:16:36 AM »
Where are you going to find .28 cal bullets?

 =D

7mm
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dogmush

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2011, 10:39:16 AM »
You guys often have weird and estoric knowledge, Does anyone know anything about this Webley I bought?  I normally do a lot more due diligance before snaping up an old gun, but this one was pretty much an impulse purchase.  Now I'm reduced to asking if anyone knows what I bought.

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HankB

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2011, 11:09:37 AM »
You guys often have weird and estoric knowledge, Does anyone know anything about this Webley I bought? 
It looks British to me.  :lol:

Proof pressure appears to be only "3 1/2 tons" (That would probably be British long tons - perhaps with black powder?) so don't shoot any hot handloads through it . . .

Cartridges of the World mentions that the British service load for the .38 S&W cartridge is called the 380/200. (Maybe the extra "0" is a typo?) In any case, the 200 grain factory load is supposed to develop a muzzle velocity of 630 ft/sec for 176 ft. lbs of energy; a handload with 3.1 grains of Unique will essentially duplicate this performance, according to Barnes. My old Speer #8 shows 3.0 as the maximum with a lead 158 for 689 ft/sec out of an S&W Model 33, with a starting load of 2.6 grains. They warn against using "maximum" loads in any except solid frame guns in good condition.

If I were loading an old timer like this, I'd keep any handloads on the very mild side . . .
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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2011, 11:32:58 AM »
It is a Webley or an Enfield? Mk IV model Webley or Enfield No2Mk1*.

IIRC, that hammer was more common on the Enfield (for Tanker use). The grips also look more like Enfields, but the Webley grips seem to break pretty reliably over 50-60 years and could've been replaced.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2011, 11:37:45 AM »
Last gunshow I went to was *expletive deleted*, and it didn't help that it cost $7 a head to get in PLUS $5 for parking...grumble grumble grumble...

And they didn't have ANYTHING worth having. Mainly a bunch of old long bbl hunting shotguns (mainly offbrand pumps), and stupid *expletive deleted* like Taurus Judges and the like. Like 4 ARs in the whole show, and three of those were crappy Bushmaster Carbon 15 rifles...oh, but they did have a SCAR. With a $150 ACOG clone on top of it...boggles the mind...nylon junk holsters by the truckload, Made in China MOLLE web gear, beat to hell surplus, Airsoft galore, and stupid crap.

I ain't going back to another one until I get word that they aren't as crappy. Was not impressed in the least...



Almost word for word description of the last gun show I attended.
Table after table of the "hot" pistols.  Fewer used guns then I'm used to seeing.
There was one table with tricked out AR's.  All of which were totally mall ninja approved, and priced over 3k.
Last good gun show I went to was in VA at Dulles.  Lots of goodies mixed in with the crap.
I'm also boycotting them because of the 30.06 postings.
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dogmush

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2011, 12:56:35 PM »
It is a Webley or an Enfield? Mk IV model Webley or Enfield No2Mk1*.

IIRC, that hammer was more common on the Enfield (for Tanker use). The grips also look more like Enfields, but the Webley grips seem to break pretty reliably over 50-60 years and could've been replaced.

The folks over at THR tell me it's an Enfield, which would explain the distinct lack of the word "Webley" anywhere on it.

Seems cool though, I'll have to hunt up (or make up) some ammo and see what she does.

Boomhauer

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2011, 01:52:50 PM »
Quote
There was one table with tricked out AR's.  All of which were totally mall ninja approved, and priced over 3k.

I've seen so many people get taken by the $3000 DPMS or Olympic that's loaded down with FAB, Mako, and UTG crap (real value, $600 retail total, IMHO value not worth 2 cents) that it's not even funny. Buddy of mine brought a CMMG rifle with a Fake Eotech and a UTG rail for $3200 during the Obama panic. *shakes head*...you can get a top notch Bravo Company rifle for under $1K and still have $2k to spend on optics, accessories, mags and ammo if you have $3k for one of these crapped up rifles.





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HankB

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2011, 06:50:41 PM »
Almost word for word description of the last gun show I attended.
Table after table of the "hot" pistols.  Fewer used guns then I'm used to seeing.
There was one table with tricked out AR's.  All of which were totally mall ninja approved, and priced over 3k.
Went to a gun show in San Antonio a couple of months ago. Lots of overpriced ammo - my guess is speculators stocked up during the first Obama panic and paid too much, now they can't bear to let it go at market price. Some tricked out ARs, a couple of CMP Garands and carbines at double CMP prices, and table after table of cheap AR furniture, optics, and accessories from China. Seriously - I remember a couple of years ago there was SOME of this cheap cr@p, but now there's table after table of it.

The funny thing is, some guys selling more run-of-the-mill accessories like magazine, knives, sharpening stones, homemade leather, etc., had one or two Chinese items (like riflescopes) on their tables with all their other stuff. My guess is they saw the item at a previous show, got lured into buying it by the cheap price, took it home and found out what a piece of excrement it really was, and were now trying to unload it on some other sucker.
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dogmush

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2011, 07:34:38 PM »
Please report on the 238. With Colt Mustang prices where they are, I'm tempted.

I should start this post by pointing out that I HATE mouseguns.  I figured out several years ago that I am willing to carry a full-sized handgun because it shoots faster and better.  I just deal with the size and weight.  My carry guns are a 5" 1911, or a Sig 2022.  Mostly the Sig, because I like the 15 rd mags.  However, I was forced to concede last summer when several trips for work ( with a different then usual dress code) left me with no way to conceal a big gun that a pistol that would fit in a pocket does have it's place.  So I started shopping.  I started by trying to steal my wife's PPS, but it was too big.  Which led me to the world of pocket sized .380's.  Keeping in mind that one of the few things I dislike more then a tiny gun, is a tiny gun with a heavy, crappy trigger I kinda naturally ended up at the Sig P238.


I took the little Sig out today, and my buddy brought along a BodyGuard 380 for comparison.  I went through 250 rounds with no malfunction of any kind.  For those that have reported problems with a P238, sorry about your luck, mine works great.  The trigger was worlds better then the Smith's, DAO on the smith .vs SAO on my Sig.  I did most of my shooting at 10 yds because that's my normal distance, and I was doing 9mm work as well.  I know that's probably at the far end of reasonable engagement range with a pocket .380 but the sights really shown at range.  I kept all my shots in about a 6" cluster at a pretty rapid rate of fire.  On standard silhouette target all shots were solid body hits, except for the ones in the head. Compared with the LCP I've shot it was way easier to shoot, and shoot well.  It also shoots a lot softer then the LCP. Despite being small the P238 is very controllable and quick back on target. The Sig shot better on iron sights then the Smith, although once we got the laser figured out the Bodyguard did as well or a bit better as far as slow fire accuracy.  Throw in any kind of speed and the Sig's trigger proved way more accurate.

It's definitely not an easy gun to shoot well. It's tiny, and the sight radius is correspondingly short.  For point shooting at 5-10 ft it's easy.  Just point and squeeze off a whole mag.  They'll all hit.  Beyond about 20 ft and you have to start paying close attention to the sight alignment and trigger squeeze. But if you do, the P238 will reward you with pretty dang accurate fire.

My only real complaint at all is at about round 200 the VERY serrated trigger started to rub my finger painfully.  But I doubt I'll ever fire that many rounds in a sitting again, so no big deal.

Any pistol is a weapon of compromise, and a pocket pistol doubly so.  You have to decide where you will make that compromise.  The P238 is a bit bigger and heavier then it's competitors, and has a safety (love 'em or hate 'em).  It also is pleasant to shoot, has the best trigger I've found in the .380 game, real sights, and is pretty dang accurate.  For me, having shot an LCP and now a Bodyguard, and having handled pretty much every .380 on the market, the Sig was the only one that I would have liked to own. If you liked the Mustang, or prefer good triggers over the lightest possible weight then this is probably a good gun for you.  If you think a stock Glock trigger is just fine, or just can't deal with flipping a little lever, then there's plenty of other options, this one is probably not the right one for you.  For me, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked shooting this little gun, and will be cleaning it and sliding it into a pocket to go to the theater tomorrow night.

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MechAg94

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2011, 08:08:25 PM »
I've seen so many people get taken by the $3000 DPMS or Olympic that's loaded down with FAB, Mako, and UTG crap (real value, $600 retail total, IMHO value not worth 2 cents) that it's not even funny. Buddy of mine brought a CMMG rifle with a Fake Eotech and a UTG rail for $3200 during the Obama panic. *shakes head*...you can get a top notch Bravo Company rifle for under $1K and still have $2k to spend on optics, accessories, mags and ammo if you have $3k for one of these crapped up rifles.
I guess that is one reason why a friend of mine wants me to go with him when he goes to buy his first AR.  He has his wife's okay for spending a certain amount of money and he doesn't want to screw it up.

I'm not sure I have seen $3000 AR's, but I almost wish I can sold one of mine back then.  I bet I could have used that money to buy a full national match AR for what I might have gotten then.
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MechAg94

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2011, 08:12:11 PM »
Most of the CMP rifles I have seen are about 50% over the CMP price.  I really hate to think what those people will be trying to charge if the CMP ever runs out.  It'll get crazy. 
The funny thing is I have never seen anyone buy one of those overpriced Garands.  I tried to sell one at a show or two once.  I had a lot of people ask to see it and ask what I was asking, but I think every single one was a Garand owner trying to see if they could sell theirs. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

SADShooter

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2011, 09:30:49 AM »
dogmush:

Excellent writeup. I appreciate it.

SADShooter
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vaskidmark

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2011, 10:11:34 AM »
It is a Webley or an Enfield? Mk IV model Webley or Enfield No2Mk1*.

IIRC, that hammer was more common on the Enfield (for Tanker use). The grips also look more like Enfields, but the Webley grips seem to break pretty reliably over 50-60 years and could've been replaced.

Looks just like the Enfield No2Mk1 I have.  .38S&W is NOT .38 special but is 38/200.  .38S&W and .38spec are NOT interchangable.

You can tell if yours is in good condition by how difficult it is to break open the action - the harder it is the better condition the action lock-up and therefore safe shootability.

Only God and the British MOD knows why they put those wings in front of the cylinder.  They do nothing, even when trying to holster it in the correct canvas webbing backwards-facing gear.

It's a great plinker, if you like aggravation.  You will improve your double-action trigger control and wrist strength.  However, it was most likely meant to be cocked & shot single-action.

Enjoy.

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dogmush

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Re: Gun show today
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 10:15:52 AM »
SAD- De nada

Quote
However, it was most likely meant to be cocked & shot single-action.

I believe it probably was.  Which is why the brits made this one DAO.   =D

I told my mother the other day I like collecting old guns because I enjoy looking at and tinkering with cool, complicated mechanical things.  And if you want a needlessly complicated machine, the Brits are your go to folks.  I can't wait till I have enough garage space for an old TR-6.